[Closed] Great tweets from Surrey Police about cycling two abreast

That's good stuff, our lot have been doing a lot of close pass work but they post a story on facebook then wander off and it gets overrun by the usual bike hating drivel... So you end up with people showing they don't know the highway code, threatening to run over cyclists, and generally boasting about dangerous driving- on the police's own facebook. And not a word, except basically me and Cynic-Al and TJ calling everyone ****s.

Wish my local force even engaged on twitter - they've never even acknowledged any tweet I've sent.

Some nice schooling going on there about how to ride safely... 😀

So you end up with people showing they don’t know the highway code, threatening to run over cyclists, and generally boasting about dangerous driving- on the police’s own facebook. And not a word, except basically me and Cynic-Al and TJ calling everyone ****s.

Yeah same happened in Hobart when they launched some stuff

the response?

Media & Communications monitor comments on the FB site. If comments are deemed inappropriate, the person involved may be blocked from future access to the site.

All the anti-cyclist drivel comes out of ignorance, as usual. I would wager my bike that none of the haters have EVER ridden a bike on the road other than to cross it maybe.

I have to wonder if our efforts on FB have any impact Northwind (IDK your real name so have not recognised you there, and I've not seen TJ there). I guess they are classic internet hardmen though.

I did notice fewer DM reading-drivers on the last couple of threads.

Surrey Police and West Mids Police are great on Twitter.

Yup, two forces are excellent. Just 41 to go 😀

To be fair have you seen the complete ineptitude of a lot of Cambridge cyclists. Half of them really shouldn't be on the road

"To be fair have you seen the complete ineptitude of a lot of Cambridge cyclists. Half of them really shouldn’t be on the road"

You spelt motorists wrong.

I would wager my bike that none of the haters have EVER ridden a bike on the road other than to cross it maybe.

The impression I get is that they see it (cycling on the highways) as an intrusive, freeloading and somehow 'entitled' affectation that upsets the flow of the normal* truly entitled traffic  With that in mind, why would they ever choose to become the 'enemy'?

*cars and trucks

That Hobart grab though.  I thought Oz (never visited) was supposed to be a live and let live sort of place?   Hopefully it's just a vocal minority.

<h3 id="rule66">Rule 66</h3>
You should

• keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling or changing gear
• keep both feet on the pedals
• never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

This may not help and although it is a 'should' most people don't understand the highway code to that level.

• keep both feet on the pedals

What even when going down hill and shouting Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Surrey Police have got good Twitter skills, some of their responses on that thread are first class., I hope their hierarchy continue to allow them to be honest and funny

• keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling or changing gear

I think the the code could do with an update considering where the majority of gear shifters are nowadays.

That is great work by Surrey, shame that's remarkable!

See, my issue with the tweet, starts with the first sentence:
"Watch out for cyclists on rural roads."

<span style="text-decoration: underline;">Watch out for EVERY ****ing THING when you're driving ANYWHERE</span>. Jeez.

Gotta keep the focus on the victim. Start telling people to just be generally observant, attentive and cautious and they'll no longer have the ready-made opportunity of responding by pointing the finger at someone else and going "yes, but..."

Come on, get with the Road Safety™ program 😉

What's great about the terrible advice?

Riding in the centre of the carriageway on narrow roads sounds dangerous especially for inexperienced riders

Judging by this, and my experience as a cyclist, roadworkers have it worse.

On topic - a recent video of Cycling UK working with Surrey Police:

What’s great about the terrible advice?

Riding in the centre of the carriageway on narrow roads sounds dangerous especially for inexperienced riders

What’s great about the terrible advice?

Riding in the centre of the carriageway on narrow roads sounds dangerous especially for inexperienced riders

The main thing that's great about it is that it counters the received wisdom that people should eff off to the gutter when they're riding a bike so that drivers can barrel past without having to lift their right foot.

As for why not riding in the gutter isn't dangerous:

Firstly it makes you more visible: humans have a cone of perception which narrows at higher speeds. We remain highly capable of processing things directly ahead of us, but less so at the periphery, and as we go faster the range of that periphery grows. If a driver is lax about their attentiveness, the closer you are to the centre of that cone the lower the chance that they'll fail to observe you.

Secondly, assuming you've been observed, it forces a driver to physically react. If you're in the gutter, many drivers will barge past with little or no reduction in their speed or alteration to their direction of travel, which means you get a terrifying close pass. When you're central, they have to move out. Obviously this isn't totally binary: not everyone passes close when you're in the gutter, and some people will still buzz you when you're further out, but it's about getting fewer close/fast passes.

Thirdly, because it requires a deviation of course and usually some braking, it helps in one particularly dangerous scenario, which is when there's no just one but multiple drivers approaching from behind. Having a vehicle in front of your own is both a visual and psychological barrier: people not only can't see everything ahead, they also think less about it if they can see the vehicle in front isn't reacting to anything. Of particular danger is someone following a van or other tall, opaque vehicle: look up the death of Liz Brown to see a perfect example of how tailgating such a vehicle ends in fatality when the driver ahead reacts at the last minute and the driver behind has boxed themselves into an inability to react by reducing their event horizon to next to nothing. (This is why, when I'm driving, if I'm approaching someone on a bike and I've got traffic behind I'll always slow or touch the brake pedal just enough to activate the lights even if the oncoming lane is completely clear, to force a reaction from the vehicle behind: if someone in that chain is focusing on the vehicle ahead rather than further up the road, a physical response exhibited by the vehicle in front advertises the need for their own reaction.)

Fourthly, it covers you for any need to swerve. If you only see a pothole at the last minute (which is common at night) or if a pheasant darts across the road, or whatever, you can swerve to the left. If you're already close to the edge of the road your only option is to swerve right: and when you have no idea how closely the driver behind is planning to pass you, that's a big gamble to take. (I once ended up destroying an inner tube beyond repair in that exact scenario, hitting a pothole hard instead of moving right as a driver was starting a pass: had I been further right, a pothole in front of me could have been avoided without issue.) Similarly, approaching parked cars, pinch points, etc it removes the need to be forced to stop by someone who doesn't care when they overtake.

Fifthly it keeps you away from the road detritus, potholes and ironworks that cause anything from punctures to death (again, not hyperbole: there are real examples).

Sixthly, in urban areas it keeps you away from people on the footway who may not hear a bicycle and thus may not look before stepping into the road, eg when three or more people approach each other in opposite directions.

And it also just upholds the fact that it is, for these reasons and more, perfectly legitimate to do so. Dangerous? No. Driving without paying sufficient attention or without bothering to care about others' safety is dangerous, and that's the case regardless of where in the lane you happen to be on a bicycle.

What’s great about the terrible advice?

Riding in the centre of the carriageway on narrow roads sounds dangerous especially for inexperienced riders

Everything that Bez has so patiently explained in his post ^

Also, if you're not just having a wee troll here you could try following the link in the OP, there's a helpful diagram explaining why it's a good idea.

That Surrey Police tweeterer just has to be a cyclist:
<p class="TweetTextSize js-tweet-text tweet-text" lang="en" data-aria-label-part="0"></p>

<div class="stream-item-header"><span class="FullNameGroup"><strong class="fullname show-popup-with-id u-textTruncate " data-aria-label-part="">RPU - Surrey Police‏<span class="UserBadges"><span class="Icon Icon--verified"><span class="u-hiddenVisually">Verified account</span></span></span><span class="UserNameBreak"> </span></span><span class="username u-dir u-textTruncate" dir="ltr" data-aria-label-part="">@<b>SurreyRoadCops</b></span><small class="time"> <span class="_timestamp js-short-timestamp " data-aria-label-part="last" data-time="1528317091" data-time-ms="1528317091000" data-long-form="true">Jun 6</span></small>
<div class="ProfileTweet-action ProfileTweet-action--more js-more-ProfileTweet-actions">
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<div class="js-tweet-text-container">
<p class="TweetTextSize js-tweet-text tweet-text" lang="en" data-aria-label-part="0">Cycle lanes all around the country are generally unsuitable for road bikes.</p>

</div>
<p lang="en" data-aria-label-part="0">(bollocks if all those stupid codes appear)</p>

Yeah, try that again ffs

RPU - Surrey Police‏Verified account @SurreyRoadCops Jun 6
Cycle lanes all around the country are generally unsuitable for road bikes.

Amazing.

He won't be laughing for long if he rides in the centre of a narrow road.

Using words like peleton in the same tweet seems poor form too.

What on earth is good about that tweet? It's crap poorly worded advice and typical social media oneupmanship.

Everything that Bez has so patiently explained in his post

Absolutely. I'm always interested to understand the background of people who advocate "gutter cycling" on here, as clearly this is a MTB forum and there will be riders here who rarely ride on tarmac and have limited experience of road or group riding. I don't think I've ever heard a frequent road cyclist advocate for such behaviour.

My advice to anyone who feels this way (whether motorist or mountain biker) is to hook up with a local cycling club and go out and do a bit of road riding - after all, it hardly seems right to have a strongly held opinion on a topic where you have limited experience. Also, you might enjoy it - I certainly did, after years of making jokes about lycra and shaved legs!

What on earth is good about that tweet?

The reasons why people think it is good advice have been explained to you in great detail. It seems to me that you're more interested in

typical social media one-upmanship.

I'm too slow. Bez you've explained why you shouldn't ride in the gutter. It's not too difficult to think why advising people to ride in the middle of a narrow road might also be a bad idea.

It’s not too difficult to think why advising people to ride in the middle of a narrow road might also be a bad idea.

Could you explain why, and what you advocate instead?

Bez nails it.

It shouldn't be like this, but it is - GENERALLY speaking, the more assertive/aggressive I am when riding on the roads, the safer I am.

Being near to mid-lane didn't stop me coming within an ace of being killed a few months back when a van close passed me at about 60mph - because he was also being overtaken by a car at the same time. On a section of single carriageway with solid white lines and close-in hedges/trees for good measure. People like those need dragging out of their vehicles and beating to within an inch of their lives.....

But, in the round, the more visible and 'wide' you make yourself the safer everyone is, because the merely negligent tend to think a bit more. The totally reckless will always be there - you just have to pray you're not 'the one'.........

It’s not too difficult to think why advising people to ride in the middle of a narrow road might also be a bad idea.

Given that several of the reasons for staying out of the gutter on narrow roads are basically the same as the ones for staying out of the gutter on wider roads, it's really not too hard to think why it's a good idea.

Even on singletrack roads: it gives you a say in when you get passed, because you choose when you pull in; if you hug the hedge, you may not be offered that choice, and the type of person who won't offer you that choice is the type of person who prioritises their speed over your safety, and thus is precisely the sort of person who represents the greatest reason to stay away from the verge until you find a safe place to allow them to pass.

Bez, that was a fantastically comprehensive reply. I might have to steal some of that.

Bez you’ve explained why you shouldn’t ride in the gutter. It’s not too difficult to think why advising people to ride in the middle of a narrow road might also be a bad idea

On a single track road, out of the gutter = in the middle of the road.  QED.

I'm quite shocked to be honest. take the hell-tinted glasses off and ride sensibly forgetting about some imaginary war on the roads

I think the highway code is pretty good advice for most riders and I would never encourage riders to head out into the country lanes riding as a peloton in the centre of a narrow road. I can't believe that any of you would encourage your teenagers or family members to do such a ridiculous thing.

Riding a safe distance from the verge should be the default position.

Eh? It's just one phrase I was using for keeping well away from the edge of the road, ie fairly central on the lane. Away from the verge, out of the gutter, in the middle of the lane, a good distance from the edge of the road, a good bit to the right of over there but still to the left of over there—use what you want. And maybe chill out a bit.

"Being near to mid-lane didn’t stop me coming within an ace of being killed a few months back when a van close passed me at about 60mph – because he was also being overtaken by a car at the same time. On a section of single carriageway with solid white lines and close-in hedges/trees for good measure. People like those need dragging out of their vehicles and beating to within an inch of their lives….."

The car driver probably started his overtake before the van pulled out but because the van driver was likely too lazy to indicate that he was pulling out you ended up with that frightening situation, I've seen just that scenario unfold in front of me before. It frustrates me massively that people don't indicate to overtake as all that happens is the next driver gets a bit closer before he realises he's got to do the same followed by the next one & so on & so on.

riding a safe distance from the verge is not riding in the middle of a narrow road

Yes it is according to all the advice from experts.

My experiences mirror comments above in that the worst closes passes I have had is when by attention has wandered and I have allowed myself to ride too close to the edge of the road.  Riding wide will not stop those close passing deliberately but does give you somewhere to go if/when they do.  what it does do is stop the inattentive close passers and those who think " I can just squeeze thru"

Always an interesting topic for debate. I  MTB and cycle to work pretty much every day for the last 10 years, so more a city rider than a country lane rider. My view is that a lot of drivers are already p**sed with cyclists getting in the way so I always try and stay to the side where possible and let cars go. Might sound odd, but I even get annoyed with road cyclists hogging the road and causing huge tail backs.....its really not that hard to ride single file and then everyone can be friends 🙂

so you will put yourself in danger to avoid holding up cars?  ride wide my friend - then when its safe let the cars past with a big cheery wave.  You are not holding up traffic - you are traffic

Go back to youtube comments eh?

A safe distance from the verge is not in the middle of a narrow road.

According to all the experts it is for the reasons Bez put so elequently.  Now can you cite anyone saying differntly?

How narrow a road in metres are you saying?  single track or one lane each way?