[Closed] Gravity Enduro - Inners. Anybody do it?

Good report on the front page about it... I'm down for the Coed-y-Brenin round... Sounds tough though!

I didn't do it, but rode the circuit later in the week - dropper seatpost would've probably stopped me going twice OTB...

I did the Inners one. Having raced at Eastridge last year, it was a bit of a shock as there was 1,500m of climbing and the tracks were way more technical.

In hindsight I probably wouldn't ride the whole course on the Fri and the Sat next time. That took its toll. A terrible night's sleep left me feeling like death on Sunday and although I got round and had loads of fun, I could have been a little bit quicker.

If I felt I was likely to have been at all competitive I might have got upset about the timing issues, but I just had a great time riding the amazing trails - and chatting with some cool people on the way round.

Brilliant weekend.

So what exactly was the issue with the timing? I've read the stuff on Facebook but I'm none the wiser.
I was going to enter the Hamsterly round but if the timing is likely to be inaccurate I won't bother...........

I didn't ride it, I was there doing technical support. But the comments from the riders I spoke to were that it was an excellent event. There were a lot of broken looking folk by the finish but thankfully very few broken bikes. It made me wish I had taken a bike with me.

So what exactly was the issue with the timing?

Not sure [i]exactly[/i], but quite a few riders didn't make the transition time on stage three (XC route climb toward Minch Moor).

I did make it, but lots of the riders in the lower end of masters with me didn't. This seems to have had a knock on effect on start times and people have been moaning about inaccurate stage times and those who missed their slot not being penalised.

Surely if you miss your slot the clock starts ticking regardless? It's part of the race format. I thought in previous gravity enduros the transition times were far too generous, especially at the Avalanche run races a few years ago.

What's too generous for one rider is cutting it tight for others though. I guess most riders signed up because they like the idea of an easy up before 'racing' the down and therefore a wider transition time might suit the majority while the elite riders will naturally get up a bit quicker. I know last year that's how it worked at inners.

I left it too late, couldn't get a place 🙁

I remember they had a little trouble with timing last year, this is the second time Crawfy's been announced as winner then had it overturned I think? Which isn't so good but hey, most folks aren't competing for a trophy 😉

I'd imagine that a lot of the riders would have done Innerleithen MTB Racing enduros before, and those really go for relaxed transitions- you have a time limit to make the route but no set stage times etc. So folks used to that could easily get caught out I expect.

most folks aren't competing for a trophy

Yep brilliant weekends riding. Really good tracks, good atmosphere and sun! Negatives for me were minor timing issues (think most have been sorted now) and some slack course taping. I fully expect Steve to have learned lessons from the minor problems and the rest of the series should be good.

So details of the overall race - 20 miles and 2000m of climbing? did anyone get a gps track of the whole thing? Want to know what I'm letting myself in for, rode 60km and 1100m of climbing on my hardtail y.day and felt pretty tired by the end of it.
Equivalent of 3 laps of cwmcarn or something?
Any hints? Not worried about technical or DH skills just the fitness side of things!

The loop fitness wise was a killer and it was very techy too/ A shock to the system but it's probably the best weekend I've ever spent on my bike.

Big thanks to Steve and his team for putting there necks on the block and creating an excellent format for us mere mortal trail riders to compete against some of the best riders in the world. Even better course than last year. Stage three was epic!
Just keep ticking over and you will make the transition times. then enjoy the downs.

Glad to see they tightened up the transition times, did Ae & Kielder last year and could have walked most of them. Not fun sitting round in the pissing rain.

Would also go with if you dont make it you loose out, got to be some reward for being fitter, not just a mini DH day....

Interested to see the debate about not riding the whole course (cutting transitions) at Ae last year we were told not to worry about it.

They got my St 3 time wrong. I made the start in time, overtook the rider 20 secs in front of me and then got given a time 6 minutes slower than him!!! I notified them on Sun about it but still waiting for confirmation of results.

On the current (wrong) results list I'm 6th, I should have been on the podium, I'm currently not V happy about Race Timing Systems, pretty shambolic really.

It was great fun. My recollection of the event: [url] http://mountainbikerides.co.uk/news/53-race-reports-a-results/422-2012-fetish-bike-gravity-enduro-series-round-1-innerleithen.html [/url]

Still not sure exactly what happened timing wise? I made all the transition stages fine where as loads around me didn't so thought that might up my mediocre ranking to less mediocre? Doesn't appear to have and my times still don't appear to be right? Might mean nothing really but I'd still like them to be correct.

The problem is they had no system to deal with riders being late.

Since everyone has a fixed start time, any late riders interfere with the start times of the riders behind them. The current 20 sec gap Btw riders is too tight to let late riders go without potentially interfering with the run of the rider behind.

I know what the organisers are trying to do and theoretically it is correct, but the system of implementation is completely wrong.

The winter series at Inners used 'dibbers' like orienteers use, that records transition and run times and is a much better system than the 'fixed' start time method.

It was absolutely brilliant. Certainly the best day racing I have done. I, and I think most others found it pretty brutal though. Stage 1,2,3 & 5 where awesome fun, stage 4 a bit tough. I wasn't expecting the stages to be as long as they where mind, more tiring than the climbing for me. I simply didn't have enough upper body strength to attack for a whole stage, hence my fairly huge crash at the end of 4.

I wouldn't let the timing issues put you off. JC and CCA took it with good grace, and Parr has said the final results will be out by the weekend, but for me in the upper 200's, it makes little difference. The only problem I have with the series is why they picked those weekends, I can't make it to another round until Dyfi...

The winter series at Inners used 'dibbers' like orienteers use, that records transition and run times and is a much better system than the 'fixed' start time method.

But that mean's stop, dib, go, so 3 seconds a dib, 5 stages, twice a stage, 30 seconds. Enough to make the podium a list of the quickest dibber not fastest rider. Works in orienteering/sportives as the times are in hours so 30seconds for the dibber is negligable.

100mph, you really like the dibber system? Coming down giving your all then having to aim your dibber into a tiny target sucks as far as I'm concerned. Ok, the system is reliable and accurate but it's not really an mtb system.

My legs blew up completely on stage 4, just completely ran out of energy 🙁 I blame having a stinking cold all week and the lack of a burger van on the way round 😉

Other than that, it was a cracking weekend all round!

this is a new race format and i'm more than willing to be there while the problems are worked out. Yes it's frustrating but it will get sorted.

I'm really looking forward to the Hamsterly event. Think this could be something that I have a go at the whole series with. I used to really enjoy doing a whole dh series as a junior, you got to know a lot of regular faces and I made some good friends. Hoping this should be the same!

Really ?? So we have given Crawford CA and Gary Forrest prizes for being quick on the drawer rather than good riders ? I shall pass that along I am sure they will be pleased all that time spent on the dibding machines at the gym has paid off. I was wondering about the muscular forearms, that explains it all...

We use dibbers as they seem to be effective and accurate (fingers crossed - so far so good etc) give immediate times when riders come in, and means riders can start when they want.

And as long as we remind the marshal to fix the dibber station to a point rather than wander around with it, jobs a good un !

hels, the dibbers are great for the events you guys are running. The race at the weekend is the UKs premier series and costs double the amount to enter, so the timing should be automatic with no chance of riding straight past the finish without clocking their time, or people coming down shouting "where's the finish!?"

Wonder how many rounds Parr is going to be given the benefit of the doubt with the "it's in its infancy - teething problems will be ironed out next time" attitude... This is the second year for this series, so Inners was the 6th or 7th event. Last year was blighted by problems at just about every round too - mainly timing, transition times etc...

I had problems with the timing last year too, so they've had plenty of time to 'get it right'!

The finish line is electronically controlled, the sensors read your chip, no problem there at all. It's the start line where the problem is, it's controlled by someone saying 'go' from a stop watch, there's no chip reader there!!

...and while the dibber method isn't the best solution either, at least it gives you accurate and immediate results, unlike the current RTS system.

So at the moment I'd say it was a better solution for the 'Premier Series' that in reality should have instant live timing!

I'm not having a go at Steve as I think he's doing a great job, it's RTS who I have beef with as they are supposed to be providing a service to match his premier series which they are failing to deliver!

Why can't you dib in, then the clock starts when you cross a beam within 10s and that start time's associated with that dibber.

Then at the bottom the reverse, cross a beam, time held and associated with the finish for that stage for a dibber dibbed in the next 10s.

Where there are riders close together, assign to the times to dibs "in order"

IA - Member

That's far too sensible a system. Although I think the current system works on a chip being read as you cross the finsh beam, so it just needs the same system at the start rather than a manual gate? Or a manual gate that can read chips?

RTS do a lot of road sportives and they use a rubber pad on the road that you ride over at the start and finish, why aren't they using that system??

RTS do a lot of road sportives and they use a rubber pad on the road that you ride over at the start and finish, why aren't they using that system??

The timing for the Dragon DHs used to be like this too, plus a split time in the middle, Then a screen at the bottom so you could see your times live when you finished a run. They had the system up in practise too, so you could get meaningful measures of your progress.

All timing should work like that...

Well, in response to feedback, we have supplemented the dibber finishes with metre high bright yellow signs that say FINISH STAGE 3 in big shouty letters, so if you aren't actually doing more than 100mph should be OK.

But anyway yes our events are more participative than eliterive and we wanted something value for money to keep the entry fees down, and have a couple of techy geniuses with Dan and Moray to sort the software so dibbers work well for us.

Sounds like the race at the weekend was awesome so all power to Steve Parr and co !

P.S I have seen the mat system used at XC and it takes a hammering

My comments weren't aimed at the inners enduro events - love them. Just for a national series you maybe expect more (including the higher price)

legend - Member

The race at the weekend is the UKs premier series and costs double the amount to enter, so the timing should be automatic with no chance of riding straight past the finish without clocking their time, or people coming down shouting "where's the finish!?"

So what would you choose, dibbers that work, or another system that's faster, neater, and less reliable? 😉

It's a shame tbh. But on the other hand Steve made a big noise about how good the timing would be last year and it was part of the justification for the price, so I think that makes it even more important to get it right.

I had a cracking weekend. The weather was great, the stages were even better and the people I met were awesome. I even enjoyed the linking stages. Cheers Steve and co.!

So what would you choose, dibbers that work, or another system that's faster, neater, and less reliable?

the latter thanks, by the end of sunday i was too buckled to tell up from down - never mind aim for a dibber 😉

Best weekend on my bike. Loved the off piste stuff. Even managed to get some air.....I'm sure the photos of me on Roots and Rain have been altered though, I was way higher oover the jumps..
Can't stress enough how good these events are to ride in. Entries in for next 2 rounds already as the're filling up fast!

http://www.rootsandrain.com/photos/256176

I got a picture of Jerome C coming down into the finish on Sunday...

[img] [/img]

Anybody there for the comedy moment at stage 3 in the Masters where we realised we had a Schumacher and a Mansell racing? Looking at the results it emerges there was also a Coulthard in the category!

The timing of these events is most important, its a race!
they run these events in Europe and dont have the same problems.
I think the fact the sun was shinning has helped the organizers out a lot this past weekend.
Wet people make grumpy people. Personally I dont know Steve Parr and Co, but I do know though that they are running a business. For the money they are charging they need to step up there game and provide the service they advertise before someone else takes advantage of the foundations they have put in place.
hope you have it sorted for CYD.

Guy's and Girl's, thanks for all the comments, all taken onboard, it was an amazing event truly helped by the sunshine 🙂
After my visit to Italy and the Super Enduro in October last year, it altered my way of looking at Enduro and where i wanted to push it to, it is after all an XC based event, it should test you phsically and mentally, so the transition times were tightened up after 2011's relaxed approach, it was a step to far this early in UK Gravity enduro 🙁
The timing problem began with lots of riders missing their allotted times, this then brings in manual entry and human error, all compounding together to basically make a giant cock up

We have put out an appeal for dedicated start marshals, we need 4 more, this is crucial to us making the timing super accurate, without these our new system will ot work 100%.
You will need to be available for 3-4 hours on the Sunday, we will either pay you or free entry a friend.
Contact me direct if you can help
Cheers
Steve

Parr - Member

truly helped by the sunshine

Must make a nice change! I thought you guys had angered some celtic weather god tbh.

Steve, what plans have been put in place to make the timing more reliable?

One issue with transition times is that there is a large difference between the fitness of all participants. If you make it tight and people arrive late you cannot flag them through late with the clock already ticking as they will get in the way of faster riders which is not fair. This is where putting faster riders after slow ones falls down in this format. It does work in the one run format of DH to build up excitement to the end.

Not sure what they do in Europe but if you don't make the transition you should be out. To keep this format working for lazy Brits you need long transition times to get high amounts of riders. This will hurt when it is pissing it down and the midgies are in the trees with you. Been there, done that.

It is a format that still needs a bit of working out and acceptance from the riders. This along with massive course cuts and different transition routes all needs sorting

Isn't enduro (on motor bikes) run on the same format? I.e. miss your run and you have to start straight away, unless you're miles back you should be still with people of a smimilar speed.

I'm all for tight transitions, as Steve said, it's an XC event so should reward fitness.

Might sign up for one at the end of the summer once my arm's fully functioning again.