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jameso
Generally I ride my gravel bike wen I want to think and look at the view, and my MTB when I want to enjoy just concentrating on flow or speed.
This. I take my mountain bike to go ride trails, hit jumps, have fun. I wander out my front gate on the gravel bike and see where I end up.
Gravel bikes are amazing..... in america where you can go on hundreds of miles of unmettled but smoothish gravel roads, away from highway traffic.
Not sure what they are for in the UK, over a rigid XC bike.
at least on flats you can hang on properly
One of the things they could be for in the UK is for riding miles and miles of unmettled but smoothish gravel roads, away from traffic, like there are around Salisbury plain
Not sure what they are for in the UK,
IMO - riding road out to some forest which is full of fire road. There's plenty of that in Mid Wales, Scotland, NE England etc.
Not sure what they are for in the UK, over a rigid XC bike.
You should see the state of the lanes round here. 650 x 50 makes so much sense.
Yes, my local lanes are not ideal for a road bike, being covered in potholes, gravel, sand, flints, grass and more potholes. I sold my road bike and my racy hardtail as the Diverge just did both jobs well enough.
Horses for courses/preferences surely. Not interested in adrenalin fuelled techy stuff. Just like being away from big roads/cars and enjoying the views/nature. Gravel riding to me is like a long fast walk. I find a HT is overkill for that, especially when said rides can be 7 hours and include lots of country/green lanes.
Like mentioned above, don't think it's worth having a gravel bike with less than 50mm tyres (esp in UK).
It's no wonder people stop using them when they're sold one with less than that. Must be an industry/marketing/style thing?
When you go to 50mm you can have slick tyres that are more than capable off road (unless it's very wet/muddy) and are as fast as a road bike on tarmac.
I meant to ride bedgebury on mine before I sold it, there’s one rock on the entire ‘red’ route that might have caused an issue for a gravel bike.
This is what gravel bikes are about for me. Scenery, cranking out the miles away from traffic.
i have ridden mine around bedgebury countless times and usually get a top 5 strava finish on most trails for the day, top three on Helter Skelter last weekend which is the roughest trail and probably not appropriate for a gravel bike.
i do it because i like to go out under biked. pushing the limits of a bike is more exciting and interesting to me than only using 50% of a longer travel bikes capability. there are obviously limits, ive ridden some local downhill tracks on it but if i was going to Aston Hill the gravel bike obviously wouldnt be my choice of bike. i guess after 20 years of riding ive found that the gravel bike has kept the excitement alive as the continuous development of MTB's has made the trails easier to ride and feel much more sanitised.
pushing the limits of a bike is more exciting and interesting to me than only using 50% of a longer travel bikes capability.
Why not just ride your longer travel bike to 100% of its capability?
The problem I have is that 100% of a rigid narrow tyred bike's capability is not that fast and rather uncomfortable.
It’s no wonder people stop using them when they’re sold one with less than that. Must be an industry/marketing/style thing?
It's because the bikes were originally made for US dirt roads, hence the name. Because their geography is different their low-usage roads out West are gravel surfaced; the low usage roads here are lanes which are mostly tarmac. So what we have are fire roads, which often don't go anywhere useful, and old vehicle tracks which tend to be a lot rougher. And they are usually linked up with road sections. So a bike with fatter tyres but still set up for non-tech ground covering makes a lot of sense. Monster-cross/fat tyred gravel wasn't around when I built my Salsa El Mariachi up, but if it had I would probably have gone for one. That said, the Salsa does allow me to do more technical descending (albeit slowly) than a gravel bike would. With a dropper it could pretty much do any of the MTB tech I might do on my XC bike.
Not sure what they are for in the UK, over a rigid XC bike.
As I said upthread, linking roads, bridleways and towpaths.
Why not just ride your longer travel bike to 100% of its capability?
because there is nowhere in kent sussex surrey that i could utilise 100% of an enduro bike. there are small sections where i might get close but even riding the good stuff at surrey i was quicker on an SB130 than a G170. Bike parks are fine, Rogate, Tidsworth, Twisted Oaks etc but i get bored easily these days endlessly repeating the same minute or two of trail.
i used to care very much about how fast i was going and wanted the fastest times of the day especially at surrey. the reality is that im now trying to compete against ebikes, de-restricted ebikes, cheat lines etc etc which makes it all pointless so going slower but it being infinitely more challenging is where im at these days.
also not all gravel bikes are the same, im on 29" wheels with 2" tyres 40mm stem and a 66 degree head angle. as people have already said its about making the usual stuff harder and more uncomfortable. but then i can also knock out a long 'adventure' ride across the downs. over the course of the last couple of years ive found that my hardtail and gravel bike by far got the most use and the big enduro bikes just gathered dust.
i appreciate im very much a niche within the gravel niche, isnt it great to have the choice though!
Well there you go, Surrey is good gravel bike country.
also not all gravel bikes are the same, im on 29″ wheels with 2″ tyres 40mm stem and a 66 degree head angle.
Drop bar rigid 29er then ; )
pretty much, but the drops make it cooler 🙂
You should see the state of the lanes round here. 650 x 50 makes so much sense.
Having ridden roads in countries that get harsher winters and summers, which just destroys roads via frost heave, melting tarmac etc, on a road bike with 'big' 32c tyres, I think 700 x 50 like some touring/gravel bikes will take, makes 13% more sense.
linking roads, bridleways and towpaths.
Suitable Bike for linking roads, bridlewaysd towpaths -
So there has to be more to it than that, or pretty much any bike, as above would do.
I can see the difference between CX and gravel, though differences are such either or would do for either sport, but when you look at the actual terrain the 'gravel' bike is aimed at its nothing special. Certainly not designing a whole new style for.
Not sure what they are for in the UK, over a rigid XC bike.
That's okay, just get a rigid XC bike then as that is for you. Others like a bike that is closer to a road bike with a few tweaks on geometry and tyres so ride those.
You don't have to understand why others like riding a certain sort of bike as long as you enjoy riding whatever you choose to ride.
A rigid MTB is not the same as a gravel bike, if feels slower and more cumbersome on road and gravel while better on rougher single track. I have just spent the last 3 months riding a rigid MTB after 10 years on bikes closer to gravel bikes and sold it and gone back to previous bike as it just feels more responsive, less cumbersome and faster on road and gravel for same effort.
a few tweaks
Hmmm, sounds a bit vague. Can you elaborate ?. Geometry as i understand it is very different.
Im shocked at even after this length of time some folk are such fanboys they'll fight tooth and nail to promote what is essentially an MTB, but with drops.
Am I even allowed to contribute to this thread?
I ride a CX bike everywhere (but have conceded to the comfort of 35mm tyres).
Reading this thread seems the xc'ers think I have the wrong handlebars, the gravel riders think my tyres are too skinny, the road riders think they're too fat, the tourers don't like that I can't fit panniers, the enduro'ers(?) think I'm not gnar enough cause I'm not getting big air.
Honestly I don't know who I am anymore or if I'm still allowed to enjoy cycling because I feel like a total pariah.
I think 700 x 50 like some touring/gravel bikes will take, makes 13% more sense.
You could be right. The '50' bit of it is the important part for bad roads ime. For off-road I'd go for the 700x50 or 700x60, for road biased use (that's what my own gravel bike is for at least) I'm less convinced that the larger OD benefits outweigh other compromises needed for the bigger wheel. TBH I'm unsure so far and it's probably biased by me thinking if I can fit 700x50, may as well make space for 700x60 and onto how well it goes off-road vs a 29er. 650B keeps it in the fat tyre road bike area for me rather than all-round jack of all trades - if you wanted that Fargo-like middle ground and better off-road ability you'd go for 700C.
Hmmm, sounds a bit vague. Can you elaborate ?. Geometry as i understand it is very different.
A degree here or there on head tube and a few mm on wheelbase is all in the few tweaks category and not much outside of difference between certain types of road bikes (i.e. race vs endurance)
Im shocked at even after this length of time some folk are such fanboys they’ll fight tooth and nail to promote what is essentially an MTB, but with drops.
Seems more like anti gravel bike people who are fighting tooth and nail. If you think a gravel bike is the same as an MTB with drops that is fine, it isn't the same but that's fine.
Interested in why you care if people like riding a gravel bike?
Honestly I don’t know who I am anymore or if I’m still allowed to enjoy cycling because I feel like a total pariah.
You should try riding a brakeless fixed gear off road with 25c tyres to get the full effect
Reading this thread seems the xc’ers think I have the wrong handlebars, the gravel riders think my tyres are too skinny, the road riders think they’re too fat, the tourers don’t like that I can’t fit panniers, the enduro’ers(?) think I’m not gnar enough cause I’m not getting big air.
Ha... I don't know which of those riders I am so I can't comment : )
'2 wheels good'
some folk are such fanboys they’ll fight tooth and nail to promote what is essentially an MTB, but with drops.
I think they're both fun and rubbish off-road and it's really not an MTB to me. It's not even close to the attitude of the MTBing I did in the 80s and 90s or XC I do now, it's just moving on what I did on CX type bikes when I got back into road riding.
It's a road bike that can take short cuts across byways, that kind of mix. 'Road Plus', as in road plus some other stuff if you feel like it. If you're mainly riding off road and you choose drop bars you're just weird : ) or a CX racer.
@MrPottatoHead ‘I’m being cancelled’ is the new ‘someone has a different opinion’
You need a safe cycling space where no one may have a different opinion than yours forum where you’re not forced to read other comments 😉
Drop bar rigid 29er then ; )
Monstercross then ; )
Monstercross then ; )
I wasn't going to say it in case the 'what is and isn't monstercross' thing came up...
(yes, imo)
Summary so far?
1. Riding bikes is good.
2. We all enjoy different rides and bikes.
3. See point 1.
Seems more like anti gravel bike people who are fighting tooth and nail. If you think a gravel bike is the same as an MTB with drops that is fine, it isn’t the same but that’s fine.
Interested in why you care if people like riding a gravel bike?
Quite. People are almost acting as if they're threatened by it. It's just weird.
Anyway, I like mine as it's a great tool for the riding I do.
Seems more like anti gravel bike people who are fighting tooth and nail. If you think a gravel bike is the same as an MTB with drops that is fine, it isn’t the same but that’s fine.
Interested in why you care if people like riding a gravel bike?
^^This^^
There's definitely an 'anti' element, and I suppose cycling being such a broad church there's bound to be a chapter of the faith that a few just can't warm too. (For me it's eeebs and unicycles at present).
Thing is we all change with time and experiences, it sort of feels like gravel bikes are something you grow into liking for a few intangible reasons.
I've drawn parallels between gravel bikes and 90s MTBs in the past but it's not quite true. But I'm not the only one who has done that.
Maybe the 'anti-gravel' mentality is driven by a fear of losing all those new golfers who prop up the MTB industry with their vanity purchases. I really don't think it matters why they dislike this particular sub niche of bicycle, they're popular enough that people want to buy them, end of...
It's not like fat bikes is it, an MTBing novelty for a couple of years and then no bugger bought them realising they're actually not that much more useful than a normal MTB (or indeed a Gravel bike)...
1. Riding bikes is good.
2. We all enjoy different rides and bikes.
3. See point 1.
4. We'll argue about anything bike-related (or non bike-related for that matter).
Unsure if my bike falls into gravel or rigid 29er definition, but I don't care because of point #1 above. I enjoy just about any offroad riding whether it's steep and silly (Golfie at the weekend) or flatter and scenic (like most of my morning 'commutes').
Rigid, 700x50s, 68deg HA, 150mm dropper, 1x11, flat bars and barends: makes otherwise boring trails 'come alive'...
A rigid MTB is not the same as a gravel bike, if feels slower and more cumbersome on road and gravel while better on rougher single track.
I swapped bikes with @SaxonRider for a few miles last time he was out on his CX bike and me on my Salsa, riding on some rough ish fire road. The CX was definitely quicker until the short sharp rocky section where I had to get off whilst he cruised past on my 2.3s. The CX just didn't have enough rubber nor did it have low enough gears on that section.
I'd have been happier riding most fire road on the CX though. However (and this is local context) the next section of fire road is lined with stacks of single-track which is accessible on the rigid mtb
@Molgrips is right about the local context here in North Cardiff. On my weekend gravel ride we could only find 2 proper gravel sectuers of just 35km and 30km.
I can't believe that a throw-away comment from an 8 year old has led to yet another debate about whether gravel bikes should exist or not.
All bikes are just a combination of tyres, angles and suspension of some sort. You can buy bikes that will take tyres from 1" to 5" wide, with angles from race steep to downhill slack and with suspension ranging from 1" of high pressure tyre to 8" of damped suspension. You can get these in almost any combination and with a wide variety of bars etc. The terms gravel, XC, enduro or whatever are just attempts by marketing departments to divide that infinite spectrum into segments that can be sold in different ways.
I'm lucky enough to own four bikes that would now be called road, gravel, rigid MTB and full-suss trail bikes. Some are quite new and some are over 20 years old (nearer 30 in one case). I seem to recall that the rigid MTB was actually sold as an ATB (all terrain bike) back when I bought it. The gravel bike would have been called a tourer a few years ago. It's a road bike that can take wide tyres and has mounting points for mudguards, racks etc. But nobody tours anymore and gravel obviously sounds better to the marketing department. My trail bike is towards the XC end of trail and may get called downcountry if that term takes hold and my road bike would have been called a racer when I was a kid.
But does it matter what they are called? They all get ridden. They can all be pressed into service for quite a range of riding. The ones nearer the middle of the spectrum can cover a wider range than those nearer the ends, but they all have areas where they are the perfect choice and areas where they are quite clearly not. The "gravel" and "rigid MTB" feel different enough (and the latter is worth little enough) that I'm happy to have both, but if you want to do an long road ride on your MTB or a rough off road ride on your gravel bike then knock yourself out. Maybe literally in the latter case 🙂
I had MTBs from the late 80s through to the early 00s - but after I'd been riding offroad on a CX, found it didn't get much use and sold it. In 2004 I built a titanium framed, drop bar bike with disc brakes before any of the mainstream brands made them - I used it for my local trails, SDW etc. It was fine for my local conditions - Hampshire, Surrey, Sussex. I also got a Ritchey P29er too - but pre-clutch mechs etc MTB drivetrains were rubbish in wet and muddy conditions. I also found that on my local MTB XC routes in the dry, my fastest times were on my carbon CX race bike - you never made up on the downs what the CX gained everywhere else. I started playing with fatter tyres, building up a 29+ and an expedition fat bike. Ironically, the most redundant bike of the lot was a hardtail MTB and it got sold. I've now got a carbon Diverge now living in Speyside and gets ridden to places like the Glenlivet, Cairngorms. Moving to the West Highlands soon and looking forward to getting the other bikes out of storage and onto the trails - only a short ferry ride to explore Ardnamurchan, Morvern etc.
I'm sure there are lots of people keen to try and dissect the relatively recent history which has given rise to the "Gravel bike", here's my own take (it may not be 100% correct):
Gravel bikes exist because the 2010s happened to be the point at which a certain mixture of "technical features for bicycles" and elements of "cycling culture" matured or hit a bit of an impasse.
Technologically we're talking mainly (but not only) disc brakes, tubeless tyres, bigger cassettes. those are the major bits that made them more viable bikes.
And then there were the other, already established, types of riding and "Culture" about: Yep CX bikes were (and still are) fun, but they're a bit specific to racing round a muddy park for an hour while complying with UCI rules. Touring bikes are ace for touring and general lane bimbling but they can struggle a tad off-road, road bikes are mainly for going fast on the road, MTBs are the opposite, great off-road but a bit dull on tarmac. Plus the whole culture of both MTBing and Road cycling has gotten a bit 'serious' and overcompetitive/bitchy in recent decades...
Gravel bikes/riding is not an alternative to any of the above, the bikes borrow elements from all of them, the definition of "Gravel riding" or some sort of "Gravel Scene" is so loose as to be basically be nonsense, it's a bike that can do some things, go and ride it however you like...
That all makes "Gravel" or "Adventure Cycling" it's own thing.
So a confluence of technologies and "cycling culture" (if there even is such a thing) that just happen to have made "Gravel bikes" work as an idea for a chunk of the population.
Question it, rubbish it, join in or ignore it. It really doesn't matter...
I can’t believe that a throw-away comment from an 8 year old has led to yet another debate about whether gravel bikes should exist or not.
I can, it seems to be quite an emotive subject for some, the mere existence of "Gravel bikes" seen as on par with some sort of crime against MTBs.
I'm a keen enthusiast for gravel bikes but, like many, I own and ride other bikes for various other reasons. Had they never been invented (and marketed) I'm sure my life would be no worse today (I'd probably just own a rigid 29er) I doubt I'm unique.
If there was only one sort of bike and we all had to use it what would it be?
I’m thinking Singular Pegasus mega-monster-cross type thing.
I rode that with 2.35” slicks and it was fast(ish) on tarmac, stable everywhere, and capable on fire road and even light (dry) singletrack with those slicks. For muddy or tougher off-road you simply stuck knobblies on.
It was a spectacular compromise bike. But it was a compromise.
I wanted something faster for the commute or road riding, more capable for serious off-road, and so on. So I ended up with several bikes.
What’s not to like?
If there was only one sort of bike and we all had to use it what would it be?
My Salsa El Mariachi, it literally can do almost anything, and is not to bad at it. It's the only bike I have actually done everything on (outside of actual DH trails but even then, with a dropper...)
Mates have gravel/cross bikes so I fancied one as the hardtail MTB doesn't really work so well on road. Took the guards and 28 GP4000 off the steel winter bike and stuck on some gravel kings, quite a good laugh and it only cost the tyres rather than ££££ to try.
Just gives another option as you can go further than MTB with more route options than road, at least in South Lakes anyway.
If there was only one sort of bike and we all had to use it what would it be?
Ahh yes the old "If you could only keep one bike" discussion.
For me it would actually be the Gravel bike today, had you asked me a few of years ago I would have said my old HT.
I can’t believe that a throw-away comment from an 8 year old has led to yet another debate about whether gravel bikes should exist or not.
But you're not new here? : )
Tinderboxworld.
Yes, I should have known better really 🙂
Has anyone been on yet claiming to have invented Gravel Biking?
My Salsa El Mariachi, it literally can do almost anything
Not sure I’d want to do the 20 miles each way commute with a laptop and a change of clothes on your SEM that I used to do on the Singular.