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Not sure I’d want to do the 20 miles each way commute with a laptop and a change of clothes on your SEM that I used to do on the Singular.
Why not? It'd be perfect for that. It's almost exactly the same as the Singular Pegasus.
Has anyone been on yet claiming to have invented Gravel Biking?
Henri Desgrange passed away some time ago.
You could be right. The ’50’ bit of it is the important part for bad roads ime.
My response was mostly in jest but I tend to agree. Wider tyres run a bit softer seem to do very little negative and a lot positive on drop bar bikes.
It would be interesting to try a 650x50 and a 700x50 back to back in some bad roads. Certainly going from 26 to 29 smoothed out the smaller bumps and chatter. I wonder if I'd notice a difference.
You sure? I haven’t check the numbers but it looks shorter and taller.
Or are you saying it’s really a flat barred gravel bike? 😉
Interested in why you care if people like riding a gravel bike?
Thinking of getting one, an E powered one to be more precise. Might be better suited 😕
Has anyone been on yet claiming to have invented Gravel Biking?
My Dad. His bike was sadly stolen a few years ago but it was a steel, skinny tubed, dropbar, 1x5 with a dimplex pull chain derailleur, 30ish tyres with zig zag treads all circa late 40s. Rode the ridgeway, The Dales, Pennines and Lake District and most points in between.
Pegasus in large:
HA 70 deg
SA 72 deg (actual SA, the text suggests that effective SA is 73 deg)
Reach 445mm
Headtube length 125mm
BB drop 65mm
Wheelbase 1092mm
Stack 632mm
El Mar in large:
HA 71 deg
SA 73 deg
Reach 434mm
BB drop 60mm
Wheelbase 1096mm
Based on the same fork with sag.
Stack 608mm
The El Mar is absolutely the most perfect place to sit and put power down for long distances, with the setup I have - at no point does it feel unpleasantly MTBey on road. The perfect bike for high mileage on all surfaces. I'd imagine the Pegasus would be basically just as good too. Although I rather like the steeper HA of the El Mar, I think it makes it better on road (based on a hunch, nothing more). I should add, since we've got into the geo geekery, that at 180cm I'm usually on the border between M and L and I went with L which gives me extra reach. I run a 70mm stem and as said 660mm high sweep bars.
Or are you saying it’s really a flat barred gravel bike?
I think it's flat barred double-monster cross bike with wide ratio gearing.
Ahh yes the old “If you could only keep one bike” discussion.
I do only have one bike and I have had one bike at a time for most of my life. 19 of the last 20 it has been a fixed gear track bike so that answers the question for me but I would not propose it as an option for everyone else's only bike!
The El Mar is absolutely the most perfect place to sit and put power down for long distances,
Not surprised, really. The angles are almost exactly what you'd find on a touring/gravel/updown country choose your noun all purpose bike. What I find more surprising is that modern geo for all day bikes (the pipedream Sirius or Nordest Britango or Sardinha) have much steeper seattubes and slacker headtubes.
With wide but not too knobby tyres I wouldn't hesitate to commute in the El Mar.
so you are
Thinking of getting one,
Yet you think they are an MTB with drops
I'm shocked at even after this length of time some folk are such fanboys they’ll fight tooth and nail to promote what is essentially an MTB, but with drops.
Better test ride a few...
My Dad. His bike was sadly stolen a few years ago but it was a steel, skinny tubed, dropbar, 1×5 with a dimplex pull chain derailleur, 30ish tyres with zig zag treads all circa late 40s. Rode the ridgeway, The Dales, Pennines and Lake District and most points in between.
cromolyolly
Aye,some folk just used to get on with it 😉
I’ll add a little grist to the mill and reflect that gravel works for me in Rossendale and has brought a new dimension to my riding.
These pictures were taken last night and had me with a smile from ear to ear.
Aye,some folk just used to get on with it
If you count walking with and carrying your bike as cycling I suppose they did.
Aye,some folk just used to get on with it
They didn't have a choice. Fortunately some other people thought they could improve on what was available. From the way many people on this thread are talking they probably wouldn't have taken up cycling if your choices were road or pushing a road bike up trails like they are in that picture 🙂
Yet you think they are an MTB with drops
You dont do humour then 😕
I'll amend 'Tooth and Nail' to full blown indigence and assault 😉
Am I even allowed to contribute to this thread?
I ride a CX bike everywhere (but have conceded to the comfort of 35mm tyres).
Reading this thread seems the xc’ers think I have the wrong handlebars, the gravel riders think my tyres are too skinny, the road riders think they’re too fat, the tourers don’t like that I can’t fit panniers, the enduro’ers(?) think I’m not gnar enough cause I’m not getting big air.
Honestly I don’t know who I am anymore or if I’m still allowed to enjoy cycling because I feel like a total pariah.
Sounds pretty similar to what I have been riding the last couple of years, so much so that if SingleTrackWorld had a Tinder style App I'd of just swiped right! *flirtatious wink*
You dont do humour then
When you do some let me know
My Spanish friend who was almost fluent in English bought me a little wire bike ornament.
She apologised that it wasn’t a “Countryside Bicycle” like the ones that I ride.
I now ride a Countryside Bicycle and I think it truly sums up my riding.
a Countryside Bicycle
I like that. Very Rivendell.
So what are the best tyres for a countryside bicycle?
So what are the best tyres for a countryside bicycle?
Obviously these
Especially if you Tippex over the R to make an S
@molgrips & @img - My N+0 is my rigid El Mar, two sets of wheels, road and mountain. All I require for the trail riding in South Wales that I can do, bang on the road wheels and commute during the week and do a leisurely 40/50 miles at the weekend on the country back roads.
Only just put gears back on it after winter duties, so a bit faster and easier on the legs.
Will I buy a road/gravel bike, probably not, but I'd jump at a Ti El Mar.
All I require for the trail riding in South Wales that I can do
Interested in your routes, DM me if you like and you can stalk me on Strava 🙂
Will I buy a road/gravel bike, probably not
When I built the El Mar gravel bikes mostly had 35-38c tyres and I didn't think that was enough.
@ molgips, mostly Afan and Glyncorrwg, Brechfa when it was last okay to ride. Been pottering about the lanes of SW during lock-down on ever increasing distances. Most road/lane riding that I've ever done, mainly for fitness TBH. Not really interested in drop bar, tried it with a Cotic Escapade before and put a flat bar on it before selling on.
Well this thread has piqued my interest in a gravel bike now. Living in the Midlands I don't have anywhere to ride MTB properly, driving to trails isn't really an option at the minute like it used to be. Well and truly bored of my road bike but it feels like this could be a good option for linking local bridleway rides together into a decent loop. What's a good option for a half decent used gravel bike - something On-One?
@_tom_ A secondhand CX bike might be cheaper and more serviceable. Not quite the same but pretty close. CAADX maybe.
PX gravel bikes ain’t bad (I have a Tempest) but the cheaper ones are carbon and it depends how you feel about secondhand carbon. It’s probably fine.
@ _Tom_
How about a Retro MTB conversion? Or even an old lightweight tourer + cold-set stays and 650b?
Still wish I’d bitten the bullet and converted my old M-Trax all those years ago. I’d probably also have gone single speed to make it even more it’s own thing.
Like this too (would have gone with wider drops)
Rode 38km' tonight on a mixture of road, gravel/dirt path/trail at an average speed of 21km/h. Managed to bag 2 KOM' on Strava. Also saw a nice sunset.
All done on my cross bike and it was great fun!
This is my interpretation of 'gravel' where I stay.
Got back yesterday from a few hundred miles on a drop bar MTB/monstercross/rough stuff tourer. It was all rather pleasant. This 'gravel riding' of which you speak might just catch on...
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Gravel riding rubbish... Yeah...
BTW, Danny and Chris called, to have their videos returned xD
Cheers!
I.
PS
How can I embed YT video into Forum?
Another option for a cheap go at gravel is to put some tougher tyres on your road bike and see how you get on. Depending on terrain I find narrower tyres fine and use 25c with no problems and even ride singletrack on them but admit I ride slower on single track that I would with big tyres.
@montgomery that looks like my kind of explorating. In fact it literally is 🙂
#downfromidris
*erratum @_tom_
cold-set stays and 650b?
^ Don’t know what I’m talking about - brakes are usually cantilever and boss mods are usually an expense.
Some old tourers will take 38c or even 40c depending. I remember this great thread https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/retro-dawes-galaxy-gravel-bike-sacrilege-to-change/
Maybe if if @redstripe is still about they might re-upload pics, as was a memorably simple tour-gravel conversion
That YT video above is great
From the way many people on this thread are talking they probably wouldn’t have taken up cycling if your choices were road or pushing a road bike up trails like they are in that picture 🙂
I wonder how many of the vocal anti-gravel brigade spend their time pushing their MTBs up a hill, just to repeatedly session a short section of trail. (Probably 100m of smooth, tabletoppy, bermy dirt in the woods - rideable on a jump bike - that they will have driven to.) 😀
Most of my MTB friends have switched mostly to gravel bikes and long distance gravel rides. I feel a bit left out because I still really enjoy riding more technical trails on my MTB.
I can see some attraction of gravel rides if you want to go bike packing and cover long distances while remaining largely away from the tarmac, but with a full time job and one child still at school age, I can’t do everything so I choose the more exciting option 😁
^. +1 Makes sense. I love bikepacking most of all but unseen life changes and commitments are seeing me looking at building another SS long travel hardtail for local 1 hr push and plummet sessions. Quite exciting tbh. Can’t seem to build up confidence to sell the gravelbeast quite yet tho
Probably 100m of smooth, tabletoppy, bermy dirt in the woods – rideable on a jump bike – that they will have driven to.
Not sure you're particularly with the building-trails-in-woods demographic, as round here most of them aren't old enough to drive. Lanes and woods are filled with teenagers both pushing and riding, and I view this as a good thing. So no need for the snobbery. 🙂
First ride on my "best" road bike in probably a year yesterday evening, as have spent most of my time on gravel bikes doing road/bridleway links around Wilts. On the pretty broken roads it felt much harsher than I remembered on its 25mm tyres at 'only' 85 psi and was actively considering letting it go after the first 30 mins as it won't take bigger tyres. Then found some smoother tarmac and, man, it was so much faster and more direct than the gravel bike (NSS) - the next 45 mins were a real hoot, sprinting for village signs etc
Now considering tubeless 25's for a little more comfort, and resolved its still fun to mix it up between bikes once in a while. Weird how the "mixing it up" tended to be occasional gravel rides with more road rides, but has now gone completely the other way. Road surfaces have definitely worsened here over that time though,and am less fit so happier with a slower place these days - for me it's as much about responding to a changing environment as anything (bad roads, too many close passes). Count myself lucky to have choice of bikes ATM
Fully intend to do some bikepacking on the gravel bike this year, and have a plaid shirt, so its gravel bike for the win from me...
I have bruises and scuffs from clipping trees when out on my cross bike, all the time pushing myself to ride the trails as fast as I possibly can. Bliss!
I've a 100km Audax planned for next month, can't wait!
Kids are back at cycle training tomorrow meaning I get an hour to blast around the local woods, fun, fun, fun!
Looking forward to a few 100km+ gravel rides I have pencilled in for the summer.
Fixed my Cannondale Scalpel so might try to get to GT one evening now we're allowed.
It's all good!
@_tom_ A secondhand CX bike might be cheaper and more serviceable. Not quite the same but pretty close. CAADX maybe.
That would be nice, I'm currently on a CAAD8 so imagine it would be pretty similar. Just checked the prices though and it's probably a bit much for me. I think I'd get about £200 if I'm lucky for my CAAD8 so budget is probably not too much higher than that if I'm buying something from the same sort of year. Not averse to singlespeed either, we're in a pretty flat area so it forces me to not be lazy and spin on our short and sharp climbs.
Was going to just ditch the idea of a road-type bike altogether and just get a spin bike for "fitness" rides (keeps the wife happy too) but this does seem more fun 🙂
Keeps the wife happy too, but...
No need for ‘buts’, when you could have it all!? 😉
50 sunny, dusty miles on the Diverge yesterday - a warm-up in the woods on some steep trails then up and over the Downs and back via the Hangers. Three top tens on off-road climbs. The gravel bike is the only bike that makes me giggle out loud at the moment, usually on a descent that would be a piece of cake on a mtb.
It’s all just riding bikes though isn’t it? Nice mix of paved and unpaved roads and tracks today on an Audax and the ride there and back.
https://flic.kr/p/2kUCERp
Perhaps a gravel bike would have been better for the road ride I did today. The road surfaces were awful!