The GP practice will not sign my medial form for a cycling event.
You know the kind of form. Event in Europe 'To the best of my knowledge LLama is not going to die while doing this event' and a rubber stamp.
They did it last year, for the same event.
It's not because of medical reason, appears to be general policy, all I have from them is:
Dear Llama.
We are aware that we have signed these forms in the past but unfortunately gp's are no longer able to sign medical form for sporting events.
Kind regards
My Health Center
From the GP secretary team, who are not contactable for comment or clarification.
I appreciate its a pointless form but hey.
Anyone had this?
What are my options?
I'm happy to pay, but would prefer not to have to waste a morning going to a private GP. Is that my only course?
Receptionist suggested I forge it 🙄
GPs won't do it now - mine hasn't done it for years. Total waste of their time and effort when waiting lists are already a mile long.
Options are:
go to one of those online GPs and fill out all the blurb, they'll send you a form, it'll probably be about £40
see if a pharmacy will do it "on behalf of a GP"
forge it
We did the latter last time I did Etape du Tour. I filled in my mate's form, he did mine. We got to registration, presented the forms and they barely glanced at them. Certainly didn't cause any kind of problem - although if I'd have had a heart attack during the event that might have been a different story.
I had this for a race in Italy. GP wouldn't do it
There's a private GP in Peebles who would, for a large fee, but TBF he would actually check everything and make sure I was actually fit to race. I ended up using a company called DataHealth online as they were cheaper, but it was entirely self declared, no actual checks of any sort. It was good enough for the race organisers (2022 24hr World Champs)
Receptionist suggested I forge it
So they signed it off last year? Assuming nothing has changed health wise that's exactly what I'd be doing. Do you have the letter from last year? If so it'll make the job even easier...
i had to have a medical form for Megavalanche a few years back and will need one for Enduro2 in August. I did the 'easy' route of a British Cycling membership, which both mentioned events will take as proof you are medically fit.
No idea how a membership anyone can get supersedes a medical certificate, but i am not going to complain.
Might be worth checking if your event will accept it.
otherwise... a bit of home brew MS Paint forgery?! 🙂
Thread from two years ago contains link from @terrahawk
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/bike-forum/medical-certificates-for-foreign-events/
I'd rather not forge it because I've spent a lot of time and money which I don't want to be wasted on chancing it
Looks like private or at least internet it will have to be
I know the forms are pointless but for the sake of promoting a healthy lifestyle you would think they would do it. Plus it's a nice little earner for them.
No idea how a membership anyone can get supersedes a medical certificate, but i am not going to complain.
Most other cycling federations, you're required to complete a medical. Therefore having a membership usually indicates that you've been passed as fit to race.
British Cycling just let anyone sign up. 😉
There's actually some method in that because BC handles memberships for people who don't race / have no intention of racing and are simply joining for the insurance and other benefits whereas most other federations are solely concerned with racing.
My GP signed my forms for Mega last year, all arranged through GP reception they charged me something like £30-40 per form, didn't even see my doctor! But PITA paperwork for them no doubt so no complaints. Actually I recall they had a doctor at sign on if you hadn't provided a certificate who charged a similar amount.
Quick Google brings up a company who will provide you one for £59 with an online questionnaire reviewed by a doctor and sent out next day. I know someone who used this service.
I've used a couple of the online services before. Always felt like a bit of a rip off, but even if the GP would do it for free, it's a lot less hassle to fill in a form online.
When I did the Etape, I was travelling with my mate, a GP. Problem solved itself! Find yourself a friendly cycling doctor - there are loads of them. 😀
My mum and dad had similar recently when they needed a Fit to Travel certificate. GP wouldn't do it, they got it from an online place in the end, was fairly simple.
I know the forms are pointless but for the sake of promoting a healthy lifestyle you would think they would do it. Plus it's a nice little earner for them
It probably isn’t a nice little earner for them, and essentially they’re being asked to provide a medical certificate of fitness for something that is almost certainly outside their area of professional practice (and so risks registration/a big hike in indemnity fees if it goes pear shaped) - as discussed elsewhere most GPs have limited sports medicine expertise.
In the nicest possible way, I can entirely see why they don’t want to do these.
I know the forms are pointless but for the sake of promoting a healthy lifestyle you would think they would do it. Plus it's a nice little earner for them
The British Medical Association advises that the safe number of patient contacts per day for a GP is no more than 25 contacts. My wife is a GP and on Friday last week she had 75 contacts (appointments, visits, phone calls). She is supportive of promoting a healthy lifestyle and any income to the practice is good, but they simply do not have capacity to take on any non essential / non contractual work.
Worth stressing that 75 contacts is exceptional, 50 or so is normal for her practice
Fair enough
We are aware that we have signed these forms in the past but unfortunately gp's are no longer able to sign medical form for sporting events.
i assume that’s just bad wording and it’s no longer a service they offer / a business priority for them rather than some sort of regulatory restriction.
Personally I wouldn’t forge it, not because I think the event organizer would notice, but because your travel insurer might dig deeper in the event of a sizeable event claim. When I found someone to do it privately I might drop the practice manager a note with the details and the suggestion that giving out those details might be more appropriate than suggesting forgery!
I wouldn’t expect a GP practice to offer such a service for free.
Used SportsMedicalCertificates for the Marmotte in 23, but i could have probs avoided the expense as i also had a British Cycling membership that also qualified me. It's an online questionnaire that is probably as valid as your forgery, but as you've paid lots of entry fee and stuff what's another 75£
Ask your solicitor for an official letter for £40.
It is not a “nice little earner”. It is a waste of our precious time.
The reason it’ll cost a couple hundred pounds from a private GP is because that is how much it costs to do it.
OK ok you GPs, I'll take back the 'nice little earner' comment.
I did not realize this was now the norm, I guess I was lucky to get one from them previously
Feels wrong but then I guess you need to do what you need to do
I’ve always used British cycling for the Mega. The ‘officials’ were always happy with the little plastic card with UCI on it. They even suspended my entry one year until I sent them a pic of the next year’s card, due to the pictured one expiration date being before the event.
People, honestly have no idea how busy we are as GPs, and have been for years now.
Forget your bloody cycling forms, we might not have capacity to see your child next time they're poorly, it really is that bad.
I’ve used Sports Medical Certificates for Chase the Sun Italy this year. £75 but no chance of getting stopped from riding at the event.
Our GP is so busy they won't see you despite having a referral saying 'you need to see a GP'. Then they totally ignore the hospital's letter referring you for a Dexa scan. They aren't going to do any sort of medical certificate. Too busy !
Sports Medical Certificates is my wife's business. Just for some clarity for those that think it's some sort of rip-off, scam or "It's an online questionnaire that is probably as valid as your forgery" - there are actual doctors involved in the process (who will happily provide their General Medical Council registration details, as well as inclusion on the certificate) who reject as many applications as they approve. The questions on the online form are the same questions that your GP or any other doctor would ask, but in our case, you get your certificate quickly and probably cheaper. In the event of something horrible happpening to you, you're covered for any insurance claim. I doubt a forgery would suffice.
The certificate is also valid for 12 months, so can be used for multiple events. We also supply event-specific certificates (on the organisers' templates) at no additional charge.
Finally, if you forget to get your certificate, we can often do 'rush jobs'. We've done several in the past with the applicant in the airport or at the sign-on for their event.
cheers.
www.sportsmedicalcertificates.com
What a great idea. £75 seems very reasonable to me.
Sounds very similar to the situation with the getting GPs to sign off shotgun/fireman application medical forms.
Some (most?) GPs will do it (and rightly charge for it as a private service), but some won't do it at all, so a cottage industry has sprung up to provide the service. The slight difference is that the doctor filling out the form has to do a full review of your medical records, so even if your GP is not willing to do it themselves, there is still work involved for the GP practice as they have to fulfill the medical record provision request from doctor earning the fee.
even if your GP is not willing to do it themselves, there is still work involved for the GP practice as they have to fulfill the medical record provision request from doctor earning the fee.
I assume (and @Kramer will know better than me) that the practice will require a quantity of sausages for the admin, and a third party doing this sort of work avoids the liability issues.
We do loads of shotgun licenses, they take a few minutes maximum, so not an issue. We're in a rural area.
It's worth noting, your GP is not obliged to provide you with any private service whatsoever. It's a courtesy when we do it, not an entitlement.
they take a few minutes maximum
That made be chuckle, my GP just took 10 weeks to do mine (after estimating 2 week turnaround).
...but I totally take...
It's worth noting, your GP is not obliged to provide you with any private service whatsoever. It's a courtesy when we do it, not an entitlement.
...on board (which indeed I emphasised that I understood then when I very politely asked for an update on progress).
Maybe a Doctor of the Arts would sign it for you, have you tried your local library or museum?
What a great idea. £75 seems very reasonable to me.it’s cheaper than a maritime, aircraft or bus drivers medical, but then it doesn’t actually involve seeing the patient. I appreciate getting staff at all is half the battle but assuming a practice gets enough of these sort of requests along with all the other various things - is it not economically sensible to engage a locum once month to bash through these and earn the practice money whilst keeping their own docs free for real work? I don’t know how often you get these sort of requests but having to waste time telling patients no, ultimately is an unavoidable cost to the business.
I applaud your wife for filling a gap in the market. I am surprised she is rejecting up to half the applicants - not because I wouldn’t expect her to do so if there is a real risk, but because i would have assumed that most people entering these sort of events were healthy. Do you think they attract a demographic who know their own GP would refuse it (on medical grounds) or even have refused it already - or are the patients genuinely surprised they aren’t fit and healthy enough?
I assume you still have to pay if you are rejected?
however I expect your wife’s insurers would prefer you didn’t describe it like this:
In the event of something horrible happpening to you, you're covered for any insurance claim.
That gives the impression that if you “pass” you are insured (if not by your wife than some sort of certainty under your own or the event organiser cover). I’m sure what you actually meant was:
In the event of something horrible happening to you, you remove a potential source of problems with any insurance claim, as well as potential legal implications of fraudulently pretending to be a doctor either in U.K. or foreign law!
It is not a “nice little earner”. It is a waste of our precious time.
Playing devils advocate if some people seeking these are actually not fit - is it a waste of time? If you think it’s true cost is nearer £200 than 40 then presumably if I asked for one you are doing some thorough checks rather than opening my file checking I’m not dying and signing. You would presumably by checking for something - something that might kill me? Ethically there is an interesting conundrum, every “start doing exercise” programme says consult your doctor before doing strenuous exercise which seems unlikely in the current climate. But the system does want people to exercise (it reduces long term cost). So if a patient asks the doctor who knows them best, gets told we don’t do that, and then finds the cheapest questionnaire service on the web who doesn’t have the records nor see the patient. Is there any either moral or legal issue if the patient comes to harm as a result? I totally get the time needs paid for and moreover there’s a shortage of GPs* which may mean someone with a time critical condition is delayed for an admin process.
* of course some people leave NHS GP employment to go and do something less stressful like signing certificates for better money!
reject as many applications as they approve
What on earth are they rejecting people for?
What sort of events are people talking about here? It's a bike ride, not space flight.
reject as many applications as they approve
That seems an extraordinarily high figure. Maybe Terrahawk means the cases that get referred to the actual doctors in the system after the straightforward ones get triaged and dealt with beforehand by non doctors. He specifically said the doctors reject, not the company rejects.
In an odd way a private specialist company for this might have a better chance of understanding the risk/stress on the body than a GP that sees this a tiny part of their job and won't fully understand the nuances of one event to another. My wife needed one years ago to swim the channel - I expect very few GPs to know much about what that does to your body and may only be asked for a certificate for an event like that once or twice in a career. A spin off from just a certificate generating service would be an advice service - is this type of event really for me because of my xxx.
Is there any either moral or legal issue if the patient comes to harm as a result?
Only on the doctor signing it I would have thought. Its not a part of the GPs job / contract so they have no obligation to do it
What is the doctor actually going to check for £40? They’re not going to have time to carry out blood tests, and ECG, etc. At best you’d get your Bap taken and they’d look at your past medical history, maybe calculated your I, but then that potentially leaves them open to be sued if they miss an undiagnosed heart condition and you kark it on the big climb into middle of the Megavalanche when your agar spikes, or stroke out.
Is this still going?
An update
Used https://www.sportsmedicalcertificates.com. It took less than 24 hours. The form did ask a couple of relevant questions about training and if I'd done the event before, which is more than the GP did last time. Also medical history, current medications, and so on, but I guess a GP has access to that.
10/10 would recommend
ahh no need to apologise. They sort of are generic questions, in that they're not tailored to the individual, although occassionally follow-up very non-generic questions may be raised. Such as "100 fags a day, really?" or "your BMI is WHATTTT?"
It’s a complete nonsense in that the event is generating thousands of doctor-hours for what benefit?
Show me a study that says GPs can in any way predict the risk of an active MTBer having an accident or medical incident during an event.
The idea that you can get a “fit note” from a multiple choice website just proves my point.
One of the things that irks me as a doctor is the amount of risk we’re supposed to shoulder for a tiny amount of money. Worst case scenario someone does have a medical incident and you’ve then go to answer to a French coroner (or equivalent) and risk your livelihood because you signed a form that earns you £40 (£20 after tax)? **** that.
My assumption is this kind of thing was probably lobbied for by GPs organisations in the countries it applies in before they were so busy.
Or event organisers want to pass the buck when something goes wrong and say "look, their Dr wrote s/he was safe to ride."
It does sound like a silly box ticking exercise, because any tests aren't going to be done at high altitude, with crazy temps while the participant is strenuously exercising etc.
You might also be able to get it signed by the companies offering medicals for HGV licences. I chose a cheaper one that was a mobile service, met them at a greasy spoon truck stop and they had converted a campervan into a consulting room!