[Closed] Going to a 'superbuild' bike ? Would most mortals notice ?

If you want it, and can afford it, get it.

Or buy an ebike. 🙂

Personally I see too much bad press about Yeti frames and warranty so out the two options you mention I’d steer towards Santa Cruz.

I think you’d notice light wheels more than the light frame, and probably a stiffer but plusher fork over fancy drivetrain components.

What do you want your new bike to replace - the t130? If so what would you like it to do better - it’s a good bike but maybe not the most efficient at pedalling and a bit heavy. Has t got enough suspension travel for you or are you looking for more?

Or buy an ebike.

Seeing my mate (Couchy on here) flying on his, it's bloody tempting at time. But i'm not prepared yet to go down that road.

What do you want your new bike to replace – the t130? If so what would you like it to do better – it’s a good bike but maybe not the most efficient at pedalling and a bit heavy. Has t got enough suspension travel for you or are you looking for more

I doubt i'd keep the T130 no. I feel it has plenty of bounce for me, as i say, i don't think it's holding me back at all. But it's a bit 'Ford Focus' in some ways isn't it, middle of the road, decent enough bits, but all fairly budget to an extent. Nothing really stands out as 'wow' in the specs of it. But i don't think I'd go for it just for the sake of it, i'd like to ride it and think "WOW that's amazing", whether that translates to Strava times up, or down, i don't know, or just plushness, comfort, etc. The bike needs to be a Do it All type bike, like the T130 is for me. I've got things like the Ridgeway 55 miler this weekend, the SDW later in year, but also BPW and Morzine, so this one bike has to do all of them pretty well, hence where the T130 has generally been brilliant.

Part of me is thinking "Why not just get the best T130 in the range?" and in honesty the only thing that's lacking in is the 'new' factor. It's the same of the same as my last 2 FSers, but they're awesome and i do love them.

I'm going through a similar thought process and basically just like new toys.

Just built up a carbon Chameleon and am amazed at how well it rides, although it was only supposed to be an alloy frame and second to the Ibis I ordered back in February.

As I still don't know when the Ibis is coming, I decided to spend too much on the carbon sc frame and glad I did.

How about something like the new Ibis Ripley with a fancy build? (I've gone for a Ripmo - don't need it at all and most certainly won't ride to it's ability but, **** it why not :o) )

Go for it. Also if you’ve got 18 months to go then if you get a move on, by the time you turn 50 it will be time for another upgrade!

I think at some stage i need to get to a Demo Day somewhere, just to ride a few of these types, be it an Ibis, a YT, SCruz, whatever really, just to see if they have that WOW to ride. Sure i understand that over time the wow will turn into a normal and it will just then become my bike, but i'd like to start with the wow. Certainly would make sense to do a day somewhere and try 3-4 different bikes.

Got my 50th coming up in 18 months

There'll be at least 5 new 'standards' and things may well have moved on a bit in that time.
Probably a bit early to be thinking about 'what bike do I want next Christmas' I think..

That said, if you like the Whyte, why not get another bike more suited to the tamer stuff and kit the Whyte up for the rad-er stuff?

I think then as an all out super build I’d go Santa Cruz Branson CC, with a Pike Ultimate, RS Super Deluxe shock, 11 speed xx1 drivetrain but with a Dub crank and BB, DT XM1501 wheels, Maxxis tyres, Sram Code RSC brakes, then whatever light and fancy looking but durable dropper / bars / stem I could find and Raceface grips. Would want it to come in sub 30lbs and pedal ok but be capable on the downs. Think the Nomad would be too much of a steam roller.

That said, if you like the Whyte, why not get another bike more suited to the tamer stuff and kit the Whyte up for the rad-er stuff?

That would start getting into too many bikes and too much cross-over really then, i've got the HT PArkwood if i need a 2nd bike, 29er so fills that, it also doubles as my turbo/zwift bike, to go in the 'tamer' category i'd be looking at a light 29er short travel FS, like a Scott Spark for exmaple (or is it the Scale, i forget lol) but either way, i'm then riding one bike lots and 1 of them hardly ever... So starting to lose the point of it really.

I got a WOW when I first rode a carbon 5010. Got one, it’s specced up to the nines, weighs bugger all and still amazes me how good it is, 5 years on. As tech has improved (longer droppers, moar gears) I’ve changed bits, but fundamentally its the same bike.

No sure if you’d get that as much, as others have caught up a bit now, but I’ve ridden plenty of other stuff since getting the 5010, and nothing has given me that same ‘this is waaay better than anything I’ve tried’ feeling.

My buddy just picked up a really good spec '18 Santa Cruz Nomad for from a shop for £6k-ish, didnt think the carbon everything and other high spec parts would mean much of a difference, he now flys on that thing and we werent slouches before! not sure what it is but the bike just goes forward for no effort, thinking its the carbon wheels and good frame design. Making me consider carbon wheels so I can keep up!

If it was me I'd go for the T130 C Works 2019.
It'll be familiar but lighter, faster, tad more travel & modern geometry.
You'll definitly notice a difference. Any change can go to a holiday riding it in the Alps.

I've had 'super' bikes in the past, an ibis mojo HD with all the trimmings, and imo they're not substantially better than a much lower speced bike, the law of diminishing returns definitely applies, but if you want it and can afford it then get it. But don't expect some hugely better ride.

In terms of areas that make the most difference to the way a bike rides my list would look like this, going from most important to least, and is based on the views of someone who like going downhill, but doesn't care if uphill is slow.

- frame geometry
- rear shock
- forks
- brakes
- tyres
- all the above are quite close and you could swap them round in order, but there's a massive gap to the next things down
-
-
-
- frame material (carbon/alu etc)
- drivetrain

The problem with super bikes is that once they are couple of years old, whilst some people still look and say "nice bike mate", you then see someone on a brand new one and suddenly you're the one saying it and getting jealous. Especially when he drops in and sends a massive effortless whip. Or worse tells you, you can go first........

Making me consider carbon wheels so I can keep up!

Save your money - it won't make any difference 🙂

I personally wouldn't just get the same as what you have but in a super spec'ed version. Eventually those components will wear out and then you'll have the huge cost of replacing them or reverting to cheaper comparible components and then what was the point? For example if the super spec version comes with xx1 eagle you will not want the costs of replacing that chain and cassette like for like each time.

I would think the biggest difference you'll notice is a completely different bike perhaps in carbon if you'd like to feel the difference of a bit of weight saving. I don't think you'll notice a ride difference between carbon and alloy.

MTBYumYum has had some really great stuff to say about the Ibis Ripmo he's been out riding lately. I demo'd the Ibis Mojo HD4 and it was a huge bike and actually pretty dullsville. You could always take a slightly different approach and get something less mainstream too. I also demo'd a rocky mountain altitude and flippin loved it but the riding style I enjoy may not be the same as what you enjoy.

You could always get an ebike and keep the Whyte too? For days when it's just you and you want to explore further and do more laps than you can now?

I did the same. S Works Enduro 650b, even sent the frame back as it was the wrong colour. Built it up with Lyriks, Ohlins, X01 eagle, LB carbon wheels and Saint brakes. Most of it stealth black and carbon. Felt great every time I threw a leg over it.

Due to logistics I spent most of last summer riding the 29er version of which I hated the colour but the ride felt more like me.

Last time it was rode was in Pila last year by my eldest daughter, its slowly moved to the back corner of the garage so its probably the right time to strip and move on.

Its always nice to treat yourself, go for it.

weeksy, ah - you just missed the QECP Cyclefest with demo bikes all weekend. Anyway, try and find a demo day somewhere. Will you notice? Yeah, definitely. You will rule out some good bikes out too, and there maybe will be the 'one'. But that 'one' might not be a santa/yeti/superwhatever. It might be canyon, trek or a whyte again. But you will know then whether the itch needs scratching.

Especially when he drops in and sends a massive effortless whip. Or worse tells you, you can go first……..

That's not a world in which i live... I'm more than aware of my place in the world.

i’d like to ride it and think “WOW that’s amazing”, whether that translates to Strava times up, or down, i don’t know, or just plushness, comfort, etc.

If you spend the money, you'll get something just as robust that weighs a bit less. It might even be a bit stiffer here or there, but as you've obviously realised your current bike is pretty decent - middle of the road etc. and not blingy, but solid all the same. Whether it'll make you noticeably faster or even more comfortable - well this makes me think you could end up a bit disappointed. Any extra plushness will just be that your forks/shock could currently probably do with a service.

A lot of the benefit of more expensive suspension comes from more adjustability, which if you're quite happy with how yours descends I doubt you'd use/notice (not a reason not to, as I said everything will be a touch lighter so that's always nice).

If you don't spend it on a bike, why not spend it on a (big) holiday?

If you don’t spend it on a bike, why not spend it on a (big) holiday?

Indeed, although not big in some peoples world the other option/possible/likely is a trip to Andalusia with David. https://bikingandalucia.com/

We've done one of his trips before and absolutely loved both the place and the riding, so as my lad will be 12 by then we're considering 2 weeks there (1 week guided) for it as well (or instead). We could wangle it so instead of my lad doing all the road based climbs he could get uplifted by the wife in the hire car in the mornings and then he does some of the climbs for the rest but also plenty of the downhills.
I've swung the idea by my riding mate who'd be with us and he seems up for that too.

Whilst some here may not think that's a wonderful trip in some ways, it really would be in my world, it's what i do and love, so would suit perfectly, especially as we could get Mrs Weeksy there too with her then having a week of exploring and pool stuff while me and the boy are riding.

The weight is the most significant part tbh. A 28lb XC bike vs a 22lb one seems to make far more difference than the numbers suggest, purely in terms of feel. And the feel can inspire you to push on more on climbs and throw the bike around more quickly on the descents.

I haven't used proper top end advanced suspension, but I can imagine that stuff like CCDB shocks would make a noticeable difference on descents in terms of feel. Whether or not that translates into extra speed and if that translates to extra fun is anyone's guess. I've had top end bikes before, when I had more cash, and they were way worse than my current medium bikes due to technological improvements in suspension, geometry and yes, wheel size.

My current three MTBs to replace for similar stuff would probably cost £7k ish. But I'd FAR rather have three diverse mid range bikes than one top end one. No question whatsoever.

There’ll be at least 5 new ‘standards’ and things may well have moved on a bit in that time

A common misconception. My Bronson is just over 2 years old now, and nothing on there is obsolete.

Tbh, thinking about it, I've similar feelings about the Bronson as you do about your T130, dunno if there's anything that would be any better, noticeably. If I had the money sitting, I'd be buying an Ebike, specifically the YT Capra.

I agree with this:

"– frame geometry
– rear shock (edit: and tune/kinematics of the bike)
– forks
– brakes
– tyres
– all the above are quite close and you could swap them round in order, but there’s a massive gap to the next things down
–
–
–
– frame material (carbon/alu etc)
– drivetrain"

And wheels I just want rims that are fairly wide, stiff and strong without weighing as much as the moon (so plenty of alloy rims meet that) and hubs that are reliable.

Both my bike builds meet these criteria, the e-bike is a bottom model alloy one with fancy forks, brakes and dropper (amazingly the stock shock works really well for me) and the hardtail has Pikes, Hope brakes, GX Eagle and Hope/Stans wheels.

Uphill I guess I prefer lighter bikes but I've never noticed much difference. Downhill I prefer heavier bikes.

I'm not seeing any value in an Ebike myself. I enjoy and want the work. We can sit and discuss the why/how/benefits/etc all we want, but an Ebike isn't in the discussion at all.

HB130

"I’m not seeing any value in an Ebike myself. I enjoy and want the work."

They're pretty weird. You get back on a normal bike and think "why am I going so slowly?!!" I guess some people might get on a normal bike and think "why is this so much effort?" but I enjoy pedalling and enjoy going fast!

There's nothing inherently better about the bikes from the more prestigious brands. An 8k Yeti/Santa Cruz isnt necessarily better than a similarly spec'd 5k Canyon/YT.

Diminishing returns is true as well. I personally don't care for the benefits of an XX1 Eagle over the GX and I bet most wouldn't be able to tell in a blind test. Having said that there are areas where I won't compromise - geometry, suspension, brakes, tyres.

If you want something that wows you how about something with more travel for those Morzine and BPW visits? If you go mid-range (or direct-sales) you might have some cash left over to ride those places more and upgrade your Whyte too (upgrading components one at a time is great for reducing N+1 bikes syndrome!)

The Hope HB130 and Forbidden Druid would be very high on my like of potential "superbikes".

something with more travel for those Morzine and BPW visits?

Not really a massive factor currently as i'm generally riding them with my 10 year old, who's not at my pace yet, so any rides i' still waiting for him and going at his speed. It's a swings and roundabouts thing as i don't get to push 100% of my skills/speed, but on the plus-side i get to ride these places with my son, which is fantastic.
But even if i went on my own, i'm not convinced i have the skills to justify a bigger bounce bike, or indeed the desire ! We're both at Jedi in Aug, so don't say "Do skills day" as we're doing that.

I know it sounds like i'm not helping in many ways here LOL. But i'd like to see a tangible wow as i say, i'm not getting the impression i'll end up with that much of a wow and adding in a 2nd week in Andalusia may end up making far more sense than anything else.

A common misconception. My Bronson is just over 2 years old now, and nothing on there is obsolete.

This. My 5010 is 5 years old. Apart from boost, all its standards are current, and no one is releasing hubs in boost spacing only yet.

I built up a fancy road bike once, thinking it would scratch an itch but in the end it didn't feel like 'me' and I ultimately sold it to be replaced with a mid-range cx bike which got a load more use.

Undeniably, nice bikes are nice to have just for the niceness of the thing let alone the pleasure of riding it... but I feel like the quality of even mid range stuff nowadays is so good that it means you are getting less and less return for your increased investment and higher replacement costs like-for-like if something breaks. It also feels worse when it gets scratched!

The holiday plan sounds good to me but if you were going to get some new bike then in your position, I'd get a new bike different to one that I had, not just a better version.

My current three MTBs to replace for similar stuff would probably cost £7k ish. But I’d FAR rather have three diverse mid range bikes than one top end one. No question whatsoever.

This - road bike to get fit on, cross bike for racing, XC bike for well XC, gnarpoon for the mountains ... more variety = more riding .. less crying when they break / get nicked.

I'm not sure the question is whether you'd 'notice', I'm pretty sure you would, it's more whether a flash new bike would make an enduring difference to your enjoyment of riding. I suspect it varies according to individual wiring, but for me at least, provided the bike is half decent, it's more about the riding than the hardware.

So... I spent a day with a mate riding a borrowed Trek Full Stache, for example, and while it was highly amusing and super capable, I don't know that I had any more fun that I would have done on my humble Sonder Transmitter. Maybe I had less fun. I was certainly faster, but that's not the same thing.

I'd have enjoyed the trails and the company and the scenery and the sensation of riding on pretty much any half-capable mountain bike. As above, I'd rather spend money on riding new trails abroad or in the UK, though I get the thing of buying something concrete on a significant birthday. Maybe you could go part way by investing in a cool upgrade for your current bike rather than spending exponentially more on a whole build.

weeksy, ah – you just missed the QECP Cyclefest with demo bikes all weekend

Yes, Santa Cruz, Transition, Cannondale, Spesh - all brands to be considered in the super-build area.
I demo'ed a Scalpel, short travel, but by heck that thing was fast. 9Kg and 9K£ 😆 Yes, I did notice that it was a very expensive bike. It still creaked like a bastard though! (BB I suspected).
(Also demo'ed ebikes and they are definitely something different)

What about Evil? Pivot?
Need to demo, that's fersher.

Surely there's an argument for buying the best hike you can afford. But that doesn't mean the most expensive.

Plenty would argue that what Geometron, Pole and Bird lack in carbon fibre they make up for in geometry (although the former two make up for it with carbon-esq superbike price tags.

Conversely if the geometry suited you then the Vitus Escape vrx comes with factory 36's, dpx2 shock, etc for less £££.

Good design doesn't nessecerily cost more money, it might even save it. But Id not get hung up on Yeti/ibis/SC when YT, Commencal, Bird or Whyte might make a better bike (either in general, or just one you prefer).

I rented a Pivot switchblade for a day once. AT the time I was seriously considering buying one. It was a ded posh megabike, carbon cranks/wheels, top end Fox36s n'shit

Really didn't like it though I'm not clever enough to say why - the shop "set it up" for me and so it should've been OK from that PoV. Tested a Bird after that and ended up buying a frame at maybe a third/quarter of the cost of the pivot

Prior to that I'd have said that I never demo bikes or frames that I buy but that changed my mind, at least for spaffing big money on one. (wanted to try a Trek too but turned out to be near impossible to arrange - I guess that's what you get with niche brands 🙄 )

I did a demo day and tried a Whyte and Orange full sus. Were much of a muchness with my Salsa Horsethief at the time

Then I had a go on a black edition Cannondale Trigger. It was phenomenal! So light and easy on the ups and floated back down the hill like a magic carpet.

£7k mind....

I think you could get a "superbike" that's a couple or three years old and get good "this is better" for the money

I did this the last time I got a full suspension bike - I went from a Commencal Meta AM with XT 1x11, Pikes and some entry level Mavic wheels to a carbon Transition Patrol with full XX1, carbon cranks, Chromag bits and DT Swiss wheels. I did buy it almost entirely secondhand, so it cost about £1800.

It is definitely better than the Commencal. It's more capable in all areas but pinpointing why is a little difficult - it's lighter, because the bits are fancy, which means it feels better climbing but also fatigues me less over the course of a ride. The geometry from a lot of the boutique brands tends to be more progressive than the bigger companies, and this was definitely the case with the Transition. That makes descending really enjoyable, it's very capable.

One big advantage of it in terms of cost is that I've not been tempted to change it - normally after a few years on a bike I'm tempted to swap it, but this is still such a nice bike, and still pretty current in terms of standards and geometry, I'm happy to keep it. And the fancier bits are lasting well. The XX1 cassette, which I got second hand (it was about 2 years old) has only just died after 2.5 years.

If you can afford it and want to do it then do so. But if you just fancy a new bike and can't justify spending mad money on one, just see what's out there that takes your fancy for normal money. It will be almost as good, and certainly not several thousand pounds worse. It's hard to find a bad bike these days, and ultimately, when I'm going down a hill, I don't think about the fancy shifters or cranks and just get on and ride the thing.

Should i go down the road, i'm far from hung up on the boutique brands, I was looking for example on the Specialized concept store and love this.

https://www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk/product/12046/2018-stumpjumper-expert-650b/

But i'm pretty sure it's not giving me much over my current T130.

But then if i were looking today, i'd struggle not to see something like this Whyte
https://winstanleysbikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/full-suspension-mtb-bikes/whyte-s-150-c-works-29er-2018-bike

or this one

https://winstanleysbikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/full-suspension-mtb-bikes/whyte-t-130-c-works-27-5-inch-2018-bike

But i'm thinking at the moment "Hmmm really... is there much point in it...." and the answer is, i don't really know.
I could offset part of the plan assuming my lad is growing at the rate he currently is by throwing him my T130, which would save me a chunk of change instead of buying him a new bike.... But now i've gone to a large, he may need to grow more before that became viable. It would also depend on whether he's still as into the riding as he is currently. So many thoughts, so many ideas. LOL

+1 on the buy a new bike, but spend the 'superbike' change on a holiday...

You're definitely on diminishing returns.
Yes, get good stuff ( I can tell the difference between my son's Pike and my Yari, his XT brakes my Desire brakes).
I've also tried (but never owned) properly posh bikes, and frankly they weren't really that much faster, more comfortable or blingier when covered in mud...

Test loads and buy the bike you love to ride the most.

I was in a similar position, 46yrs old and had a £3k Santa Cruz Tallboy for four years and had an itch for something fancier. Tested a few bikes (Santa Cruz highball and Blur, Orange stage 4, Yeti SB100). Went for the Yeti in the end as it felt more trail vs the XC feel of the Santa Cruz's and I loved the bottomless feel of the switch infinity. Ended up spending more than anticipated, but put it into good forks/wheels. It is definitely more capable than the Tallboy, but definitely not a huge leap.