gerber suspension multitool - legal to carry?

theoretically illegal as its a locking knife

IMO in practice highly unlikely anything would happen. At worst you get it taken off you.

Its messy.
Basically you need a legitimate reason to be carrying a locking/fixed blade knife (or knife over 3inches) but whether it is legitimate can only really be proved in court.
So comes down to if you think you can give a good explanation to any copper who stops you.
I wouldnt generally carry one when cycling (possibly if out multi day bikepacking) but I do carry a lock knife when kayaking and would feel comfortable justifying it.

I've used a leatherman at certain times for work and when out on the bike, but wouldn't carry it at any other time, as you will need a valid reason and they're pretty hot on knife possession.

Have to say i have actually stopped taking it for biking, the main reason was for the pliers and cutting, but like most multitools, it's pretty useless when up against something like shifter cable or the likes, i not just have a set of actual decent pliers with cutter.

It’s mad all this. I’ve got a leather man wave in my car as it’s really useful. It’s with a load of other stuff that’s equally useful. I value the safety of a locking blade. I’ve got a camper van and that’s got a kitchen drawer full of really sharp knives such as a chefs knife and a big serrated bread knife. Sometimes I use that for day trips or for basing a ride from as it has a bike rack and leaves the car free for my wife.

I was getting my hair cut yesterday and the barbers clipper switch was playing up so he sent his apprentice to wilkos to buy a little glasses type mini screwdriver set so he could repair the switch whilst the barber was cutting my hair. The sales assistant wasn’t allowed to sell him the tiny screwdriver set as he was under 25!

I get that knife crime needs fixing but I don’t think the law as it stands is particularly helpful if you’re living in the countryside and used to being a bit “self sufficient”, having a leather man or a Swiss army knife, handy little lock knife etc and it doesn’t seem to be stopping much knife crime in the towns and cities either.

It’s sort of crazy that the legislation seems so draconian but you can even buy big non legal Bowie type knives in go outdoors and other camping shops. It all seems a little all over the place and incoherent.

Ha! I have a decent sized fishing knife in the backpack I use to commute with. Only used it yesterday.
... but i'm in Oz, so presumably if I was stopped by a copper they'd say "That's not a knife."

But seriously, my mate runs outdoor education courses at the local uni and bought both his kids a Leatherman for their sixth birthdays.

There's a strong public interest deterrent factor in prosecution and I can't think of a valid reason for why you'd need a gadget with a locking blade for cycling. I won't be taking the risk 🙂

I won’t be taking the risk

I often carry one on my person when not biking and often chuck one in my bike bag. I counted up earlier sat in my vehicle on the night shift and I had 8 of them to hand.

I like my multitools and work on the basis that

1) It's extremely unlikely that I'm going to get stopped and searched

2) I'm hardly going to prison, even if an over zealous copper does find one and deem it a crime

I'll often have these kicking about somewhere to hand too - third from the left is a legal UK carry (under 3" and not locking). The one to it's right is illegal because it locks. Doesn't really make much sense, does it?

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I’m hardly going to prison, even if an over zealous copper does find one and deem it a crime

Who knows? But it'll show up on a DBS check if you ever rely on those, and that could see you out of a job

Carried a leatherman in to the Home Office and had all kit scanned. The thing they got really exited about was the watercolour paint box that looked like a segmented case of explosives (possibly). Not one jot cared about the multi tool as I had it in with all the other bike bits. Interestingly the Brompton was not allowed as it could not be scanned.

I’m pretty sure kids aren’t killing each other on the streets with £100 mulltitools…

even if an over zealous copper does find one and deem it a crime

If you "often have to hand" a knife that you yourself say is illegal to carry, and you decide to carry it around just in case, it's not the copper deeming it a crime, is it.

My Gerber is now no longer in my cycling pack. It got used very infrequently when it was in there, and never for the blade. It would be hard to argue it was really necessary. But if it was a tool I could easily remove the blade part from I'd pop it back in the bag. Is "might possibly be useful occasionally" a valid reason to carry? Because surely everyone could say that in most circumstances?

Not worth the risk. Just get him a swiss army knife. I have had some stop and searches, one on my bike in the Peak District of all places.

This has been done on kayaking forums. My understanding is that there is mitigation based on where you carry it. If it is in the bottom of a bag, in a tool kit, it can’t be grabbed and used in anger in an escalating confrontation. You wouldn’t wear it in view on the belt loop.

In the camper van your knives are in a kitchen drawer, if you had them in the car door pocket then that’s different.

We visited the London Eye, some years ago, and there was a bag search in place.
The chap asked me if there was anything sharp in the bag, and I thought he was just being careful not to cut himself.
I answered no, and he opened the front pocket, to find my Swiss army knife hanging on the clip.
"What's this, then?"
"Well, it's only sharp when you open the blades out..."
"I'll have to take it, but you claim it back, when you get off, with this cloakroom ticket - off you go..."
"You'd better look in the other pocket, then"
"'kinell, that Gerber multi-tool has a much more lethal, serrated blade"
"Thanks for being stringent, with your security..."

Presumably you use the knife blade as a pad spreader when changing brake pads.

That’s what I did at the weekend.

From the perspective of having one of my soldiers currently in crown court for travelling back from two weeks in the field with a multitool in his military kit bag that British transport police took a dislike to, I'd play it safe.

"You know you need a good reason to carry a bladed weapon"
"I'm a soldier and it's on the kit list for the exercise I'm travelling home from"
"That's not a legitimate reason"
"Oh, are you sure I really think it is"
"No. Do you have a good reason?"
"Well, you just told me no; I think I have one but if you say I don't then I don't"
"Right come with us, put your hands together".

For various reasons I use my pocket knife quite a bit and often have it in my pocket. After thinking about the legalities and the impact on my job something showing up on a dbs check would have I stopped carrying an opinel and got a ukpk. Spyderco uk legal penknives are really good and feel pretty safe to use because of how you hold them.

Continuity - out of interest why were the police searching his bag on the train? Surely not a random he’s a soldier, let’s search his bag and see what we can find…

I have a locking Gerber multi tool in my bike bag. Has a number of uses when out on a big ride.

Wouldn't be overly bothered about being stopped, as it's a legitimate use.

Oddly enough went into a concert at Wembley 20+ years ago where they were searching bags etc. I'd come straight from work on site and forgot I had my Gerber on my belt. No one noticed or said anything.

That story about the soldier is bloody ridiculous! What a stupid waste of everyone's time and money.

edit - I found a little folding knife when out riding one day. Popped it into my pack and forgot about it. Airport security found it though. 🙄

I spent a night in a cell at 18 when a copper spotted I had a multi tool on my keychain and found a non-locking blade on it. I can’t remember the size but I guess it was just over 3”

Admittedly at the time I was asking to get stopped with the green mohawk and leather jacket with 40kg of metal studs in it, if you are a 50yo IT professional you’ll probably get away with it

Somehow, possibly some lucky admin mess-up, it didn’t end up on my record but I won’t be rolling those dice again

It really depends where you are/what you’re doing.
A locking blade is a lot safer if you’re on a multi day camping trip and need it.
Walking/cycling through town on a Saturday afternoon is an entirely different scenario.
I have a swiss army locking knife, my rule of thumb is I don’t go near a town centre with it, and i never carry it in a pocket, always in a backpack/pannier etc.
but ultimately, it would be down to a court to decide whether my ‘reason’ was actually justification.
Never been stopped my whole life, and I’ve lived most of it in the west of Scotland.

It really depends where you are/what you’re doing

And what you look like mostly.

I've got one of those Gerber Suspension multitools in my fishing kit, very useful for undoing tangles ... which happens a lot alas.

I wouldn't carry is as a EDC though due to the locking blade. I've got a Gerber Dime on my keys though, which is a smaller version of the Suspension with a non locking short blade (1.5 inch). Mostly gets used for cutting the bruised bit out of apples.

From the perspective of having one of my soldiers currently in crown court for travelling back from two weeks in the field with a multitool in his military kit bag that British transport police took a dislike to, I’d play it safe.

Army have always thought they have an exemption, a good percentage of the likes of REME, RE, etc carry an issued leatherman on their belt, especially certain trades, there will be more to the story if the legal team at Andover haven't been able to provide the required assurance to the CPS, and the fact it's gone to Crown Court instead of Magistrate!

@yak

And what you look like

yes, it shouldn’t really be that way though.

That story about the soldier is bloody ridiculous! What a stupid waste of everyone’s time and money.

Yes, you should definitely believe the quarter of a story you've been presented with here, and not suspect that (if true at all) the individual had been involved in some kind of ASB.

This has been done on kayaking forums. My understanding is that there is mitigation based on where you carry it. If it is in the bottom of a bag, in a tool kit, it can’t be grabbed and used in anger in an escalating confrontation. You wouldn’t wear it in view on the belt loop.

In the camper van your knives are in a kitchen drawer, if you had them in the car door pocket then that’s different.

Absolutely this. Riding a mountain bike, as part of a toolkit is very different to on your belt loop on a pair of jeans riding round town.

Same as keeping a crowbar under your drivers seat in the car is very different to having one in a tool box in the boot with other tools. Though that does make me a little nervous about the trail clearing scythe and machete in an ikea bag in the rear footwell at the moment.

Doesn't mean you won't meet an officer who's got a cob on or who takes a dislike to you but, whilst it would be a load of hassle it's surely not going to go anywhere if you're not stupid about it.

It's interesting the comment about pushing the brake pads back out, as that's how my gerber ended up with only half the knife left, the jaws of the pliers were too soft as well, have to say i find multitools mostly useless in the grand scheme of things.

I've carried one for years and years* in my commuting bag, along with lazer measure, headtorch, electrical screwdriver, assorted rolls of tape, quite often assorted spanners/nutf****ers

Never had an issue, but I'd be relying on the mitigation of "necessary for work" - it is - I'm a lampy travelling to multiple sites by bike, so light multipurpose tools are necessary.

If I wanted to do damage to someone, I'd be more likely to try and beat them to death with the Mountainmorph pump I also carry, rather than trying to poke holes in them with the silly little Gerber blade, once I'd finally got it open.

*until I left it in the roof of a Milton Keynes hotel ballroom a month or so back...

My pickup has a crowbar under the passenger seat as well as a sledgehammer, spade and some other horrible looking log tongs and a pickeroon. They’re under there because I don’t want them on display on the back seat, they don’t fit in the toolbox and I haven’t got a canopy on the truck. There’s a horrible looking pruning saw in there as well as a very sharp marking axe. Sometimes there are a couple, of chainsaws if I’m off out logging but often I’ll use my truck with the residual tools still in it as clearing the whole lot out and remembering to put everything back in is as,I got to forget someth8g. It’s no different than a builder having a load of tools in his van I guess. He might take out the power tools but hand tools prob stay put .

have to say i find multitools mostly useless in the grand scheme of things.

General ones rather than bikey ones? I tend to agree and carry a small pair of pliers instead.

Can't remember ever needing a knife on a bike ride. Though I have used the razor from my tubeless repair kit to cut small items.

Suppose I could use that to shiv someone if things cut up rough out on the trails.

The soldier post - not sure that’s the whole story.

I have had some stop and searches, one on my bike in the Peak District of all places.

What were the circumstances....

Never been searched and the last time I was stopped by a police man was maybe 35 years ago - no lights on my bike in the 80s. Just said Sorry Sir and he let me cycle off....

My camelback has a Letherman Wave in the tool kit - been in there for 15 years or more....

What were the circumstances….

A pub had been robbed. I was nearby.
Tbh that one was ok. A formality.

Far worse was a London tube one where the officer singled me out as the only non-white and was extremely aggressive. In my face, spit from his shouting on me. Then he found a water bottle, a metal sigg one and accused me of carrying petrol. This went on for some time with him shouting in my face, wanting me to confess to petrol, bombs, whatever. Eventually he backed down when his mate stepped in.

For clarification, it sits in my camelbak which only ever comes out for longer rides (like afan and stuff), as part of a repair kit, not 'to hand' so to speak or clipped to a belt.

I've actually found it quite useful, I have used it as a pad spreader, getting thorns out of tyres, trying (badly) to repair shifters, fixing wheels enough to get home when spokes have gone, whittling the odd bit of wood, and opening my lunch (tesco sandwiches can be tough to get it to!)

All probably could be achieved equally easily with other tools I suppose.

If these things are illegal they should really have a warning about it to stop people buying them and carrying them round without actually realising. Until the other day I had no idea so a small blade on a multi tool was in the same camp as a massive zombie knife

@burko73
@argee

Slight edge of handle poking out of one zip (overloaded bag), random NIMBY on train saw it and reported it. No capacity at magistrates so crown quicker. Reservist officer not regular so andover not involved. That's about all I can go further into. I've come out of it with a really clear lesson not to risk carrying a blade anywhere public even with a good excuse (I used to loads, was a chef before this job) because you are arguing from a presumption of guilt and it's just not worth the hassle.

The other thing is that I rarely find I need a knife that often. A pair of medical scissors or pliers are often a lot more useful, and I was always cutting myself.

@chakaping

You seem to have a needy and odious axe to grind. Would you mind just doing it somewhere else?

If these things are illegal they should really have a warning about it to stop people buying them and carrying them round without actually realising.

You'd better be careful when you start on the house extension 🙂

Every person shall be liable to a penalty not more than [F1level 2 on the standard scale], who, within the limits of the metropolitan police district, shall in any thoroughfare or public place, commit any of the following offences; (that is to say,)
54(8). Every person who shall roll or carry any cask, tub, hoop, or wheel, or any ladder, plank, pole, showboard, or placard, upon any footway, except for the purpose of loading or unloading any cart or carriage, or of crossing the footway:
Metropolitan Police Act 1839

Slight edge of handle poking out of one zip (overloaded bag), random NIMBY on train saw it and reported it.

Completely brought upon themselves then, should know better. An overloaded bag and the one thing that you don’t want on view on public transport happens to be poking out. Understandable that other passengers weren’t comfortable.

That story about the soldier is bloody ridiculous! What a stupid waste of everyone’s time and money.

To be fair, even without the added context above, the army has to have a safety information film on what to do when you accidentally travel home with grenades in your bag (top tip, apparently don't put them out with the recycling, Veolia don't appreciate it).

To missquote the Hollywood blockbuster Broken Arrow "I don't know what's scarier, taking home grenades, or that it happens so often ther's actually a H&S film for it."

So not entirely surprising the police might take a dim view of any weapons?

If you “often have to hand” a knife that you yourself say is illegal to carry, and you decide to carry it around just in case, it’s not the copper deeming it a crime, is it.

Probably helps that they are in my work 'van'. Obviously I'm selective about where I'd carry any particular item. Wouldn't take a multitool to the footy for example, or just walk the streets with a big knife on me. For situations where a multitool isn't suitable, I'll have a little Swiss Army

It also will depend on where in your work van the knife is, and where your van is at the time.

In the back under other tools etc? Good. In the door pocket? Not so Good
Driving to or from work? Good. Driving the work van to the shops/tip/etc? Not so good.

The law is pretty clear, and whilst some officers will give you a friendly warning, others won't.

We've been through this at work. My team regularly carry fixed 7cm field knives into school, often 3+ of them.

We've moved to a 'must be in toolbox' protocol. This, along with boxes of firelighting and cooking resources, gives good context and not just forgotten in the bottom of a rucksack as you walk into a school...

I routinely carry a penknife in my first aid, and when canoeing I've two fixed knives on me, one on display under my armpit. I'm not sure I would catch the tube across London, but I've shuttled on rural buses with my canoe buoyancy aid on.

I carry one of these on my local mtb rides

I use it most rides for pruning branches that are overgrowing trials or clearing bits of deadfall. It stays in the Camelbak until needed.

I do wonder what would happen if i was stopped, but i think cutting wood is a pretty legitimate reason for carrying a saw.