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I used to carry a leatherman wave (locking blades) in my bike pack routinely, i don't bother now, just keep it in the van and have tiny legal gerber dime in my pack, mainly for the tiny pliers to deal with split pins on brakes and gripping tubeless valves.
I also carry a folding saw into the woods for trail clearing, obviously this is fine.
Locking blade makes it illegal no matter the length. An adult might get away with it if they were white and sensible enough to look like it was for work but I wouldn’t let a kid carry one just in case they get stopped.
They’re pretty hot in carrying knives of any type. Even one without a locking blade. You need a pretty valid reason to carry any knife these days.
Having dealt with quite a few stabbings at work I’m quite happy about this even though I grew up playing with knives as a kid.
I’ll be honest, I often carry a Leatherman in my work bag as I can claim I need it for my job. And I have a (most definitely illegal) Opinel locking knife that I’ve had for years in the bag I use when out with the kids so I can cut their apples/fruit, whittle sticks in the woods, etc.
But I am a 43 year old white guy with 2 small twins living in a nice part of town so there’s pretty much no chance of getting searched out in public (malicious or not racism exists everywhere and it’s always in the favour of white guys).
Travelling out out to Spain on the Portsmouth to Bilbao ferry in the campervan man on security asked if we has anything in the van that could be used has a weapon, I'm still wondering what would have happened I had owned up to the various kitchen knives,hammer etc that everyone in campervan has
It does happen:
"A man was found with a Stanley knife by police on the first day of his new job.
Aaron Cunningham, 20, pleaded guilty to possession of a bladed article in a public place.
Caernarfon Magistrates today gave him a 12-week jail term, suspended for 12 months."
"The court heard that the defendant had been on a two-day works trial with a roofing company.
But he had a row with his girlfriend on the phone and his employer later ended the trial and dropped him off at a bus stop after work to get home. He went to the pub and drank "five or six double gins", the court heard.
... police later had a report of a drunken man...Officers found it was the defendant and he was intoxicated. His speech was slurred and he was "almost incoherent".
Police asked him for his mobile phone so they could help him get home. He took out the knife from his coat while he was searching or the phone. It had a locking mechanism and he was arrested."
"He claimed it was a work tool he hadn't left behind ... Eilian Williams, defending, said the knife had originally been in Cunningham's possession legitimately. But the magistrates chairman Julie Eddows said he had had a knife in a public place and been heavily intoxicated.
However, she said the bench accepted he had been working on the day of the offence and is genuinely remorseful."
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/drunk-man-spared-jailed-after-22775824
It does happen:
Just make a total farce of the law - if that report is correct, it was in no one's interest to prosecute him.
Just make a total farce of the law – if that report is correct, it was in no one’s interest to prosecute him.
Depends how you argue it I suppose, but justice is supposed to be blind, it shouldn't matter who he is, if it's a law it's a law. I've got a Stanley knife in my toolkit, but that doesn't make it ok to take it to the pub even though I'm white and rapidly approaching middle aged in Berkshire, not not-white, teenager in Tottenham.
but i think cutting wood is a pretty legitimate reason for carrying a saw.
Maybe. Although I think you could run into issues about whether you have the right to be doing the cutting in the first place.
Also whether it should be carried just in case or should it be carried on specific maintenance trips.
Main problem with it is even if you are let off in the end if it does go to court it will be costly in time, legal advice and stress levels.
To be fair, even without the added context above, the army has to have a safety information film on what to do when you accidentally travel home with grenades in your bag (top tip, apparently don’t put them out with the recycling, Veolia don’t appreciate it).
To missquote the Hollywood blockbuster Broken Arrow “I don’t know what’s scarier, taking home grenades, or that it happens so often ther’s actually a H&S film for it.”
So not entirely surprising the police might take a dim view of any weapons?
At the end of any exercise, training or trial all participants have to clearly state they have no OME or the likes in their possession when leaving the range, so there is no 'accidentally' having a grenade 😁, but to have their issued leatherman would be normal.
It is weird the knife laws in this country, as the above comment about the branch cutter, all due to knee jerk reactions to things that happened, carrying anything like a leatherman nowadays puts you at the risk of any clampdown search, it has kind of got away with the whole intent of carrying a knife, which is usually a lot clearer, nobody on here i would think would have something like this and carry it with the intent of being a weapon, but that does get lost the minute the police find it and the CPS work out whether to proceed, as it's an easy way of getting people charged and numbers up.
At the end of any exercise, training or trial all participants have to clearly state they have no OME or the likes in their possession when leaving the range, so there is no ‘accidentally’ having a grenade 😁
And yet ....... googling for grenades found at recycling centers brings up a lot of hits even after you filter out the world war relics and novelty lighters.
I only know this because I work with the sound recordist who does these films for the MOD and we were talking the other day about what we'd been upto since our last job.
The legal angle on carrying knives by 'Blackbelt Barrister' on Youtube (he's a real barrister apparently):
" I can’t think of a valid reason for why you’d need a gadget with a locking blade for cycling"
My gadget with a locking blade: -
My old Alien multi-tool has a 2 inch locking blade.
Which doesnt make it a valid reason from a UK legal perspective. It just means whoever designed it thought it was best to have a locking blade. Personally from an avoiding injury viewpoint I prefer a locking knife. Although some nonlocking designs can be pretty good having a lock minimises the chances of it folding on the fingers. However I wouldnt expect that to work in court.
Seems crazy that I'd carry something like this around when I was in my early/mid teens.
That was 35 years ago though and we'd go in the woods and build bivvies
I’ve got a Stanley knife in my toolkit, but that doesn’t make it ok to take it to the pub
my stanley knife normally goes in the door pocket of my van but there's been plenty of times i've accidently left it in my pocket and gone for a few pints after work.
Any links to legal versions with a mix of other useful tools like the Gerber or Leatherman ? I carry one of each, in the car and in my big all day MTB pack, but think I may replace them both.
iainc
You could downsize and save some weight with something like the Leatherman Style PS which is small and has no blade. It has a set of pliers which are well made, and I find together with a Topeak Hexus in the pack is great for all day rides. Has come in useful many times and I think the small size of the pliers can be a real advantage for bike related stuff.
https://packhacker.com/travel-gear/leatherman/style-ps-multi-tool/
Any links to legal versions with a mix of other useful tools like the Gerber or Leatherman ? I carry one of each, in the car and in my big all day MTB pack, but think I may replace them both.
There's a bladeless LM Rebar, but it still has a locking saw, so don't know if it's technically legal
I’ve actually found it quite useful, I have used it as a pad spreader...
My gadget with a locking blade
You have to ask yourself whether you need a locking blade to spread pads, or need a multi-tool with a locking blade. If you can answer that question to the satisfaction of a Court then you'll be fine. It's not us that you need to convince 🙂
Any way of replacing the knife part on a Gerber suspension multitool to make it legal? Not one of the things I have ever used on it anyway.
I've one of those Gerber's with a locking blade in my bike toolkit too.
It'll be in there when I ride on Thursday too, and the next time.
Locking blades are useful.
Have ordered that little leatherman, I don’t need the knife bit really
TBH I think you'd leave yourself pretty open to challenge if it's in your MTBing pack, which particular parts of your bike do you think you would you be fixing with the locking blade?
The nuance of any arguments that the pliers or screw driver are the relevant tools for the activity you are engaged in might be lost on the 'wrong' officer. Rigid interpretation of the rules suggests there's no reasonable excuse for carrying a locking blade on a bike ride... (IMO of course).
For the sake of keeping things legal I would just look for a cheap multitool without a 3"+/locking blade, or better yet only take a proper bike multitool(s) rather than a general purpose leatherman or whatever because that makes more sense anyway.
Anyway last time we the "EDC" Knife discussion came up, wasn't the popular conclusion, Yes it's fine to carry a 3"+/locking blade if you meet the key criteria of being:
1: White
2: Middle-aged
3: Utterly certain the police would view you as being above the law (see '1' & '2')...
Everytime we have this sort of discussion I think of my mother who 3 times has had 5" opinal lock knives taken off her at security in airports. We finally persuaded her to stop carrying one. I am astonished she was never prosecuted. She now carries a Swiss army knife adn puts it in the hold luggage not her handbag. She was in her late 70s the last time
( she is a scientist / biologist so carried a knife to collect samples and being a sensible woman a lock knife is best)
Thought I'd just have a look at my Leatherman Bond. I didn't think there were any full sized bladed Leatherman that were UK legal. The blade is just under 3" and doesn't lock.
A quick search seems to suggest it is legal
It's not my favourite Leatherman, but it's an option
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52113435183_c50a0cd747_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52113435183_c50a0cd747_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://www.flickr.com/gp/85252658@N05/wgF099 ]IMG_20220531_231540[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/85252658@N05/ ]davetheblade[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52113435288_267ddd58e4_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52113435288_267ddd58e4_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://www.flickr.com/gp/85252658@N05/06p7CN ]IMG_20220531_231643[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/85252658@N05/ ]davetheblade[/url], on Flickr
Something like this solves lots of problems without a blade:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gerber-MP600-Bladeless-Multi-Tool/dp/B00KYO627M
I'm glad this thread came up before I packed for the UK, I normally carry a 20 year old small swiss army knife* and a locking knife when i'm travelling. Will leave the locking one at home now!
@Yak - an old uni football mate of mine in this video, irony being that he does talks to the MET on racism, crime prevention, etc.
*has been unnoticed through multiple airports and confiscated then returned at two.
…all due to knee jerk reactions to things that happened, carrying anything like a leatherman nowadays puts you at the risk of any clampdown search, it has kind of got away with the whole intent of carrying a knife, which is usually a lot clearer, nobody on here i would think would have something like this and carry it with the intent of being a weapon, but that does get lost the minute the police find it and the CPS work out whether to proceed, as it’s an easy way of getting people charged and numbers up.
Without wishing to be argumentative or combative in any way, I wouldn’t be so dismissive of knife legislation as to call it a “Knee Jerk Reaction”. It was undoubtedly made as a “reaction” to the level of knife crime, stabbings and fatalities we’ve seen over many years. Arguably, the current legislation doesn’t go far enough:
According to the Ben Kinsella Trust ( https://benkinsella.org.uk/knife-crime-statistics/) there were 235 Police-recorded murders involving a knife or sharp instrument in England and Wales in the 12 months to March 2021.
Try telling bereaved parents that these laws are a knee jerk to “things that happened”.
With regard to intent, intent is certainly not lost on the Police or CPS - your intent is irrelevant. The offence of carrying an offensive weapon in a public place imposes a strict liability burden on defendants to prove they have a reasonable excuse for carrying it. See clause 139(5)(a) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.
It’s nothing to do with chasing figures; the criminal justice system is bursting at the seams - there is literally no shortage of work. It’s about keeping the streets, pubs, parks, schools, fairgrounds etc. safer.
Without wishing to be argumentative or combative in any way, I wouldn’t be so dismissive of knife legislation as to call it a “Knee Jerk Reaction”. It was undoubtedly made as a “reaction” to the level of knife crime, stabbings and fatalities we’ve seen over many years. Arguably, the current legislation doesn’t go far enough:
I do agree, no argument from me, my knee jerk reaction comment was against the reason for carrying, rather than the actual carrying, i think i mention that, especially with the carrying a knife for defensive or offensive reasonings, against carrying a tool that may have a knife as part of it.
It really was just in the multitool discussion though, so having a valid reason, with a multitool that is not easily at hand versus an actual knife that is tucked in your belt or the likes.
As a former soldier who would always be carrying a leather man after exercise, if I was the chaps CO I’d be booting him out for poor personal admin anyway…..
Be interesting to know how that case goes. We all carried them about with us, hardly ever used mine but the blade did get used occasionally. I honestly wouldn’t have thought twice about it. Mine wasn’t issued, I was infantry, but we all still had one.
The fact that on STW we are having a discussion about whether carrying various kinds of knives around is worth the risk of getting stopped/searched/prosecuted, indicates to me that we are going in the right direction.
I've always had penknives, locking knives, multitools and even some fixed blade knives for camping/outdoors stuff. I keep a leatherman (which contains a locking blade) in the boot of the car, as part of a tool kit in the spare wheel well - and I keep a locking knife in my camping kit. My camelback has an old leatherman in it that has a non-locking blade like that "bond" one above. Otherwise I'm extremely careful about leaving the house with a penknife.
I have one of these, which I keep on my desk (at home) and occasionally leave the house with it - if I expect I may need it, usually for picnics etc:
It's non-locking with only a short blade. I really can't see any genuine reason that somebody (a non-tradesperson) would need anything more than this on a "just-in-case" basis.
A slight aside - but those lionsteel "Barlows" are excellent knives. You can customise it on the website with all sorts of blade and scale options, and the build quality is excellent
Where'd my picture go? try again....
What I’ve learnt from this is that next time I have a bad day at work and go to the pub after and get shitfaced I’ll make sure I haven’t got a knife in the car before I drive home.
If it helps, I carry a victorinox version of the same type of tool. 2 locking blades on it.
I recently got stopped in London Victoria train station for an "anti terror" check (god knows what vibe I was giving off)
Had my rucksack with that in it, explained I was commuting to work by bike. They checked it over, gave it back, gave me a receipt incase I wanted to complain about them (I didn't) and I carried on with my day.
Not saying all situations will be like that, but if you ride with it, it's a legitimate tool. If it was in your pocket with no bike or reason, then it could be seen as something else.
I'd say don't worry about it.
The original EDC thread is closed and I can't find the latest one (why is the search function a big bag of poo?), so this thread will do.
Just ordered a SOG SEAL XR to add to my knives - S35VN steel, it's a beast. 4" locking blade though, so will definitely only be taken out in the woods and on site in the field at work
I just bought one of these because sliced my fruit tastes the best and I'm out and about often. Will be kept in my bag though, rather than on me.
As a counterpoint I've never carried a knife while riding and honestly never needed one in 20 odd years of riding.
I'd have one if I had a need for it though.
Hold on... Does the world's sharpest/bluntest little blade that comes with the weldtite tubeless kit count?!!!!
That SOG "Seal" knife is a proper Walt weapon 😂 Still, if pretending you're stalking Bin Laden when you're bored at work makes you happy, who am I to judge 😃
Nah, it's just a knife
I suppose if its in its little pouch, then inside a bag it can't be readily got at. Then that leaves the matter of having a reasonable excuse for having it, and I think offroad cycling, possibly even cycling in general, you would have a case that it is part of the tool compliment, just as an axe or saw is to a camper.
Has anybody succeeded in keeping the blade but removing the locking function from eg the Topeak Alien or Mini PT30? I reckon that a small amount of judicious filing of the latch on the Alien would suffice. On the PT30 a bit of careful bending back of the spring mechanism should do it or possibly even reversing the spring plate altogether.
Would a locking anchovy insertion tool contravene the legislation?
@Scienceofficer: I think a better choice would have been the Boker Plus Wasabi - a friction folder that's UK legal carry. But then I am a friction folder fan... they have most of the safety of a locking blade while not infringing the legal definition. About the same price as the CEO, and prettier too, in my eyes.
Has anybody succeeded in keeping the blade but removing the locking function from eg the Topeak Alien or Mini PT30
That would be some crazy punishment to get lifted for having a locking blade on a dedicated cycle multitool
About the same price as the CEO, and prettier too, in my eyes.
I thinki prefer the CEO tbh, but get the legality side of it
FWIW, I have now adapted my PT30. I bent the spring tabs so that they can't engage with the blade and lock it. Dead easy to do.
I was in New York as a teacher on a school trip with 70 school kids. I always take some kind of multitool as they are GUARANTEED to forget the code for unlocking their case, and sometimes it is just quicker to cut it off.
Anyway, we were queueing to go out to the Statue of Liberty, and I realised I had my Gerber in my bag, and I had to navigate airport style scanners etc. I didn't want to get caught, or to lose it to confiscated even if I handed it in.
I decided to do a dead-drop in Battery Park, so I stepped out of the line and squatted down to tie my shoelace. I deftly pushed it into a pile of dry leaves under a low hedge, sorted my lace, and rejoined the line.
When I returned, post SOL visit, I went to retrieve it. This was the most anxious part, but my plan had worked and I picked it back up with the same method.
In 2010 I was stopped at airport security in Edinburgh with a Leatherman. They said it would be confiscated or I could go out and give it to someone. The problem was I had no-one there to give it to. In that instance I went into WHSmith, and did a dead-drop down the back of a particular book. I returned later and collected that no problem too. This incident actually predated NY.
@Scienceofficer: I think a better choice would have been the Boker Plus Wasabi – a friction folder that’s UK legal carry.
Thats a nice blade, but I already have a similar Boker as a more utility type edc with a uk legal blade.
Hennie Haynes have had a CEO made thats UK legal, which is actually the one I bought, but I was too lazy to lift the picture and post it when it looks the same.
I specifically wanted something finer to contrast my other blade.
TBH I struggle as it is keeping hold of my irrational attraction to pretty blades I have no/little use for...