Hi all, I recently bought a Specialized Fuse hardtail trail bike. The bike is absolutely fantastic but I can't help wonder if I'd have been better getting a full suspension?
I bought hardtail as it's all I've ever ridden (used to ride a DJ bike before moving to trail riding) and for the price point. I didn't want to invest too much in case I just dropped it as a hobby after a month (not the case as I've seen).
My main trail is the local woods. Riding narrow footpaths rather than bike trails over roots etc. Lots of climbs and downhill sections, none overly technical but can be very bumpy in sections (roots rather than rocks).
I'm not overly fussed about travelling around the country to find 'the perfect trail' and will mainly stick to my local few trails. So the question is: do I cut my losses, sell for a few hundred pounds loss (if I'm lucky) and buy a full suspension? Will I get much more enjoyment out of it?
I know it's a question only I can answer but input would be appreciated!
The Fuse looks like a pretty capable bike for the type of riding you describe. Have you tried dropping tyre pressures etc?
Have you tried dropping tyre pressures etc?
Tyre pressure is currently 30psi so half way between the guide for the tyres (20-40psi) but I could try going lower? I worried any lower would cause higher rolling resistance.
Tyre pressure is currently 30psi so half way between the guide for the tyres (20-40psi) but I could try going lower? I worried any lower would cause higher rolling resistance.
interesting that they give a range (many just give a maximum) but that 40psi is merely the point where you will (possibly) damage the tyre or rim.
I'm 85kg, on my hardtail for woodland/roots/dirt/mud type trails I'm unsually about 20-25 psi.
I'd try lowering the tyre pressures and do a bit of experimenting. It all depends on your weight too. 30 psi for me at 16 stone would be a little bit too high on my tyres on the rear, would also be way too hard on the front.
If they're bigger volume tyres, they won't need as much pressure either.
Also, Is your fork setup correct? Coming from a DJ background, I'm wondering if it's setup a little too harshly?
The bike is absolutely fantastic but I can’t help wonder if I’d have been better getting a full suspension?
What makes you feel this?
All bike have their plus man minus. Also what's you're local? Local in West Sussex will be different to local in Shropshire.
30 psi is fairly high pressure for a wide MTB tyre. It'll depend on your weight and the specific tyres, but I generally run 30 PSI in the rear and 22 in the front for 2.3 tyres. I'm about 80 kg. With bigger tyres, you will probably find lower pressures are an improvement.
I worried any lower would cause higher rolling resistance.
The key element really for rolling resistance is tyre compound.
Before you do go too low, are you running tubeless - if not, go tubeless and then you can drop to 20psi.
higher pressure doesn't equal low rolling resistance, if the tyre can conform over the bumps, and keep the bike, and you, moving in a straight line, rather than bouncing around, jarring you sideways and upwards, then it's being more efficient (to a point) If your back wheel is skipping out on roots and loose ground as you pedal uphill, that's not great either, and more likely to happen the greater the pressure in the tyres.
General rule if you're riding trails is to go as low as you can for best grip and control, but if you start bottoming out the rim on roots/rocks, or if you start feeling the tyre roll/squirm in hard corners, go a little bit (2/3psi higher until those things happen acceptably rarely.
If you're pedalling a long way on smooth trails, you might want to go a bit higher, as best grip in corners is probably less of an issue.
Tyre pressure is currently 30psi so half way between the guide for the tyres (20-40psi) but I could try going lower? I worried any lower would cause higher rolling resistance.
As above, for someone of average weight, riding average rooty trails in average British woods, I'd try 22-25psi front, 25-27 rear, rolling resistance might go up slightly, but grip and control go up more. You need that rear tyre to deform enough to dig in whilst the bike is bouncing around in a rough corner. If it's too hard you just ping off things instead and get zero grip.
It's different riding to a FS. I won't say it's more skillful or makes you a better rider because it's different skills. Riding a HT badly/averagely/passively takes no more skill than it does on a FS, it's just less comfortable. Riding either fast (or fast for a HT, once you start putting effort in the FS is going to be faster) takes a different approach though. FS bikes you can take rougher lines and still have grip e.g. going outside/inside/outside around a corner to maintain speed, whereas on a HT you're looking for the smoothest line which is most likely following a rut around the outside of the whole corner and using it as a mini berm to pump for speed.
The only place I've found a HT to be less fun in absolute terms was the Peak District. Everythings still rideable, but when you're faced with a field of small boulders almost a mile long (Potato Alley, or the Causeway before they sanitized it) and the FS bikes just roll over it whilst you bounce down it at half the speed it's just demoralizing!
there is absolutely no reason to consider a full sus for the type of riding youare considering.
about all you wil lgain from it is maybe a slightly comier ride when seated
negatives are, youll be much more out of pocket, youll have morem intanence, and you might even hinder your climbing ability slightly. Chances are, you will also reduce the fun the element as youve now taking a sledgehammer to a pillowfight.
people are differnt, ive got a chocie between a hardtail and a decent heavy trail/enduro bike.. and i ride my hardtail more.. i might even be quicker on it, the exception being if im going somewhere new and i want a get out of jail free card to save me. Im actually looking forward to riding the full sus soon, because ive forgotton what its like more than anything else, and to see if i have picked up some new talent
play with your hardtail, get it right for you. 30 psi is pretty much too high for an MTB. even my gravel bike on 44mm tyres doesnt often go beyond 35psi
The only place I’ve found a HT to be less fun in absolute terms was the Peak District.
I'm in Ashbourne so on the edge of the peak district.
Thanks all for the input. I'll drop down to 25 front/27 rear and go from there I think.
As for suspension I did have too little sag but I've since adjusted to around 25-30%.
30psi so half way between the guide for the tyres (20-40psi)
The max/min pressure printed on tyres is from safety testing, with a sizeable margin either side of that range also fine. It's not to do with recommending a ideal pressure on performance grounds. Go lower. My hardtail is currently 16psi in the rear without issue. This is obviously dependent on rim/tyre width, rider weight, riding style, and terrain.
Apart from weight/speed, i don't really see what a HT brings to riding over a FS bike. I don't get the harder/techie stuff being more challenging is more fun, along with the over-biked thing people say. When i ride trails i don't want to be up down, in out on the saddle and riding position over every rut and root.
People have differing opinions...
The over biked thing is relevant, on easier trails a big bike does take the excitement away, otherwise you may as well be on a gravel road, but that's just opinion...
OP, as pretty much comes across above, riding a HT is a choice that some folk enjoy and some don't.
You don't say that buying a FS bike would be too expensive, so if it's something you think you'd enjoy more then probably go for it. You can make your HT a bit more comfortable probably, but it won't be the same as FS by a long shot.
I love my HT, but I wouldn't make a case for it being the fastest, most efficient or comfortable bike I could be riding. You get to choose what you want from your bike, which is great 🙂
in all seriousness? don't people do that on every bike anyway? i'm out of the seat the same on FS or HT the same
All hypotheticals, could you just borrow a full suss from a mate, take it on a 'typical' ride and see which is more fun? (I suspect the HT for the reasons above but you wont know for sure until you try it)
in all seriousness? don’t people do that on every bike anyway? i’m out of the seat the same on FS or HT the same
Not nearly as much/often on a FS as on a HT no, you can roll over 90% of stuff on the FS that will rattle you about on the HT.
I rode a hardtail for years. I got a full suss bike about 18 months ago and I'm enjoying riding it. If I'd have bought an equally modern hardtail I'd have enjoyed that too.
Walleater (of this forum) rides a hardtail. He builds and rides some of the most challenging trails in Squamish. When he first went over to Canada to be a trail guide he took his old 26" Dialled Bikes Prince Albert hardtail and did everything (better than) his clients on their long travel bikes did.
I've never measured tyre pressure on a mountain bike. I use my thumb and gauge whether I'm going to get rim strikes or get the tyre flip-flopping and burping and pump it up a bit more.
The fuse runs 2.8 tyres doesn't it? I run 14-16 psi on my Stooge and weigh 95kgs so I'd suggest your waaaaaay over-pressured on the tyres, they'd be rock hard.
Not nearly as much/often on a FS as on a HT no, you can roll over 90% of stuff on the FS that will rattle you about on the HT.
I'd argue that if you rode an FS like a HT then it would be a lot quicker.
Take Stickler at Swinley (just because we both know it), ~2 miles of cobblestone purgatory. You can ride it passively on a FS, just pedaling between the corners to keep speed up. And you can do that on a HT, it's just less comfortable. But to ride it quickly on a HT you need to be stood up and pumping every corner and soaking up the chatter. An FS will compensate for sitting down to an extent, but if you ride it like you're on a HT, but on a FS then it absolutely will be faster.
Not nearly as much/often on a FS as on a HT no, you can roll over 90% of stuff on the FS that will rattle you about on the HT
I'm with alan1977 and TINAS on this.
Of course, its possible to layzee-boy your way over much, but that would be shit and boring!
I’ve had a HT since 2014 when my Lappierre got nicked and I couldn’t afford to replace with another full susser. I’m not a particularly skilled mtber, but I’ve taken it down several medium level DH tracks in the south UK - a good HT won’t hold you back. If you’re used to jumping I’d have thought you could definitely make the most of it if it was the right HT for you (I did a little reading on the fuse but can’t comment too much).
For anything footpath level of difficulty I’d say can be done on an HT and there’s fewer things to worry about in cost and upkeep. FS can make your local trails a bit easy sometimes.
That said, I have a new rig on order to help with those rocks and roots at the Forest of Dean.
Borrow/rent one for the day and see if you like it 🙂
I went from two bikes down to one due to lack of use a few years back. The choice was my 29" full suss or 25.5" hard tail. It was not an easy decision but in the end I kept the full suss as it was the better bike (for me) 90% of the time. The hard tail was great fun though.
Have not regretted it since.
If you think you might want a full suss then get one. You'll soon find out if you like it and changing bikes is fun!
I’m in Ashbourne so on the edge of the peak district.
50/50 then. The local stuff around there I'd suggest a HT is mostly the right tool for the job. But then it depends specifically which bits you like to ride. I'm sure there's more gnarr than the bits I've ridden round there.
If you're regularly riding around Edale then I'd say a FS starts to be less of a nice to have and more a necessity (unless like me you really like HT's).
I'm 97kg and ran 23psi front on a 2.5 and 25psi rear on a 2.3 with Maxxis tyres with EXO sidewalls on my hardtail.
You'll be surprised how low you can go, just watch out for clanging your rear rim and make sure you're set up tubeless.
I'm back to riding a hardtail while my FS EpicEvo is in for a warranty claim. And I have to say I'm coming back from rides feeling much more beaten up (shoulders and knees and ankles) from the greater impact (even having adjusted tyre pressures), and it's taking a day to recover (old git alert). Yes it is quite fun navigating descents a bit more carefully on the HT, but for me the comfort and extra speed of the FS make a long morning loop a whole lot more fun, and no extended recovery
To be fair... In the current market i dont think you're going to lose any money if you were to sell it anyhow, providing its still in a nice condition. Your other issue would be getting a sensibly priced 2nd hand full susser, or an in stock new one
Mtb&b in Macc will do guided test rides of Scott full sus and alpkit in Hathersage do test rides for £50 for weekend collected or delivered. Might be worth £50 to try both bikes back to back.
As above, it's personal choice and ultimately comes down to what you want to get from your riding.
Its not about bike capability as a hardtail can handle anything, but do you want a magic carpet ride or being challenged by the trail.
I've currently got two hardtails: a 29er with 130mm travel (66 degree ha) and 27.5 mmmbop with 160mm travel ( 63.5 degree ha). Between them I can ride anything from dh trails in Wharncliffe, welsh/lakes rock, to long all day xc rides.
Therefore it's not just a hardtail vs FS question.
I love both my Hardtail and f/s, but the Hardtail is more fun and just as fast until you get to the point it blows your feet of the peddles.
This is on a 140mm travel hardtail at my local bike park, I was expecting to be much slower than on the Geometron but there really isn’t much in it.
Standards really are slipping 'round here. Clearly the answer is that you need both!
In all seriousness though, the specification you get for your budget should probably be a factor. For the standard of frame and components you're getting on your Fuse, you'll have to put quite a bit more money in the pot to match that spec and ride quality on a FS bike. I know I'd rather ride a sorted hardtail than a gate of a FS bike.
Quick feedback, I went all in and dropped the tyre pressure to 20psi front 23psi rear (In for a penny in for a pound). It's like a completely different bike, better grip, better traction and better over roots.
Having done that I don't really think I'd gain much from a full suspension. Maybe a few more likes 'on the gram' but who rides for that? 😂
Tubeless is definitely on the card in future.
Over biked is a real thing. Once took an enduro bike round Swinley. It were rubbish.
Glad to hear OP is finding tyre pressure change has helped.
that's good to hear
i've got a couple of friends who really don't buy into the low tyre pressure thing, and subsequently haven't benefitted
i'm still tinkering with the 2.6's on my sonder transmitter.. 17+19 seemed to work ok for me last night at 78kg naked..stony chalky (lumps) loamy brake rutted trails..
obviously, when you start getting into this sort of territory, a good reliable pressure gauge is useful
@ajt123
i actually wished for a full sus at swinley because i spent so much time pedalling and bouncing off stones i wanted to be able to sit down 😀
Absolutely, those high wear machine built trails can shake a filling loose!
Short travel full suss is where its at for Swinners.
Tubeless is definitely worth doing, better ride, the ability to safely run low pressure, less weight, far better puncture performance (ie: virtually none)
Unless you’re a regular tyre swapper, you definitely want it.
I've got two mates that rip up techy singletrack on single speed Fuse. It's definitely capable for what it sounds like you're using it for.
I’m back to riding a hardtail while my FS EpicEvo is in for a warranty claim. And I have to say I’m coming back from rides feeling much more beaten up (shoulders and knees and ankles) from the greater impact (even having adjusted tyre pressures), and it’s taking a day to recover (old git alert). Yes it is quite fun navigating descents a bit more carefully on the HT, but for me the comfort and extra speed of the FS make a long morning loop a whole lot more fun, and no extended recovery
I'm old and unfit and I find more than 2 days in a row riding bike park by body starts to feel it but to be fair that's only since I was over 50.
jimmy748
Are you clipped in on Devil's ? Those rock gardens at the top fire me like a ping pong ball on the HT and don't get it spot on but its nice to have feet free on chalky corner in the wet...
I can't imagine being ever old enough to choose to ride Swinley on a FS though..
@stevextc No flat pedals, I find it better to try and jump though the rock garden than plough through it though.
Welcome to 1999's full sus over hardtail discussion!
For the OP to decide who's opinion is right or wrong (joking! I mean who he agrees with) surely obvious thing is to get a full sus demo or loaner to take on a ride. Overbiked isn't a thing - wrong or shit-biked is. But hey, that's just an opinion.
I just bought a new hardtail and took it round my local (the very rooty QECP) and it was only really the final, extremely rooty and bumpy descent that made me miss my full sus, it was impossible to get the same speed down it. But I knew this anyway, cos I've been riding hardtails, full sussers (almost 6 inches of never overbiked Yeti 575s) and rigid bikes for that matter, on the same trails since forever.
So yeah, demo or loaner. (But if it's really all about FUN! you know the ONLY answer is EBIKE! LOLZ!)
just for some reference, I checked the psi in the rear of my dh bike (2.5" tyres) after a day at rogate where it felt a little soft - 9.8. 20 is plenty!
Overbiked isn’t a thing – wrong or shit-biked is. But hey, that’s just an opinion.
Agreed, in principle. However, longer travel bikes tend to have grippier, heavier tyres and stronger, heavier wheels, etc. So you sacrifice rolling resistance for grip, which is fine on steeper, more techy trails, but harder work on more flowing, more xc-style rides. Obviously, this depends on how fit you are and what level of compromise you're happy with.
And as an example..
a new hardtail and took it round my local (the very rooty QECP) and it was only really the final, extremely rooty and bumpy descent that made me miss my full sus,
I've only ridden there once, a couple of years ago, and don't remember this, so it can't have been an issue for me. I was on a 2.8" plus HT, rather than my FS. I enjoyed QECP - it came as a pleasant surprise because I was expecting something more similar to Swinley or Sherwood Pines.
