[Closed] Full sus - do I really want one?

I was recently in the same position, having ridden hardtails all of my riding life. But lately I've had problems with my back (put it down to old age), I've recently bought a Boardman fs Pro. It was 18 months old and in reasonably good condition and the price was within your price bracket. They'll be other bikes within your budget too. You just need to be patient.

My giant anthem is lighter and cost less than my steel hardtail, so don't get hung up on weight.

Interestingly in a back to back comparison I did last year the anthem was no slower on a hilly 10 mile ROAD commute than my cross bike was...

Paul's cycles and pedalon (amongst others) do great discounts on end of model year.... But that's not now sadly. If you could wait a few months there are bargains to be had on new bikes.

Alternatively keep and eye out for excellent condition second hand.

Don't forget a suspension seat post if you just want a bit of comfort.USE Vybe is good.

Some people love a hardtail & so did I until I got a full sus , I could never go back.

In the same position!

Ask yourself why you want the full sus. You'll loose that direct ground feeling you get with a hardtail. Set-up for efficiency the full-sus wont grant you any extra comfort, just speed. Set up for comfort- they're a pain to get up steep technical climbs.

The weight: whats your current hardtail? Odds are there isnt much in it.

Also, consider the alternatives: Is your fork of high quality? Swapping from a s/h solo air jobby to a Marzocchi NCR 350 ti made my old hardtail go from 'aight' to 'Holy shit lets win the Enduro series'.

Just some thoughts!

No, of course you don't want one. What on earth are you thinking?

Can you not borrow a friends for a couple of rides, see how you like it. I bit the bullet a few years ago, sold my Hardtail and bought a Trek Fuel EX9. I’m now riding a Stif Morf.

I bought a cheap orange 5 last year , last week I bought a cheap Scandal 29.

I'm used to 100mm travel . The orange just deems to soak up any contact with the ground. Yes I know it's meant to!

Ask yourself why you want the full sus. You’ll loose that direct ground feeling you get with a hardtail. Set-up for efficiency the full-sus wont grant you any extra comfort, just speed. Set up for comfort- they’re a pain to get up steep technical climbs.

Total nonsense, all of it.

I, personally, wouldn’t want a susser as my only bike.

but, on the days when i want to go offroad, a good susser is the tool for the job.

the advantages that i have noticed, are its more comfortable at the end of a long day. Its faster over rough terrain, and the rougher it is, the bigger the difference is, i also find I don’t get the lower back lockup on my susser that i used to get

it will be heavier than a hardtail of the same spec, ie same gears brakes fork, frame material, etc.

it will be lighter than a cheap hardtail though.

if you intend to go bikepacking etc, a hardtail is probably better,

there will be a periodical cost to service rear shock and the frame bearings, but it’s not much tbh.

Surely N+1 applies?

Interested too.

Never owned one but borrowed quite a few. Probably time I actually bought one.

Had a go on a 2016 Boardman recently and was massively impressed. Enough time  set it up for me and it just felt right. About the same weight as my steel hardtail, easy to lift over gates. Nice bike.

Really liked the Kona Hei Hei I blagged a go on last year, huuuge fun. Will keep an eye out for a secondhand one in a few years.

Horses for courses. But a lot of the "myths" about differences between the two often don't stack up when properly evaluated. For instance,people will often say that hardtails climb better, but actually FS bikes often maintain more contact at the back end (especially on technical climbs) that allow you to keep the power down in a way that a hardtail often won't (lack of rear suspension means the rear wheel will either be bouncing around or will spin). Also, I've found that an FS is often better on pedally, yet quite technical terrain. On the hardtail you're getting bounced around whereas the FS will absorb impacts to the back wheel, stopping you getting bucked about (or getting knackered, out of the saddle) and maintaining grip. Finally, worth bearing in mind that the way the suspension actually works is very different. On a hardtail, any use of suspension (the front fork), automatically results in a steepening of the head angle, whereas on an FS the way that the BB drops means that the head angle is often made shallower. This is useful on steep, technically demanding terrain. of course there is a big difference between an XC and an Enduro FS, as indeed there is between the same types of hardtail.

That said, imho the most fun I've had on mountain bikes has been on hardtails (my current 29er 2Souls is a great bike). They are less forgiving, which means that the onus is more on the rider (at comparable speeds on comparable terrain) and I would contend that they're certainly more fun on most of the terrain that I suspect most of us ride (trail centres and comparatively benign natural trails), most of the time.

The real question (imho) is if I can only have one hardtail and one FS, what I should I go for...

Absotootly. FS is the way to go. For your budget, I'd be looking at second hand. If you were tall enough, you could buy my XL Santa Cruz blur trc frame. Great bike that I've superseded with more of the same in a 5010.

+1 Nobeer.I hate going back on my hardtail after being on my BansheeX.I have noticed barely any more maintenance costs over 9 years.If you like,just save a pound a week towards a new rear shock or service.Do it.

Total nonsense, all of it.

Tend to agree

Set up for comfort- they’re a pain to get up steep technical climbs.

You either have have no idea how to set up a full susser or you are trying to ride a full on DH bike up a steep hill !

FS is quicker up steep technical climbs than a rigid.

I would be looking at something like a Giant Anthem.

Yes, shit loads of fun. Do it.

A couple of years agoI told myself that I wanted to try FS again, so I bought a Liteville 301 frame and built it up. I told myself that it was the dog’s bollocks (and, in a way, it is) but I don’t get any more pleasure from it (or even, as much) as I do from my rigid singlespeed Ti Hummingbird.

Which is all probably totally irrelevant but what it shows, I suppose, is that bike choice is such an individual thing that anyone else’s experience is just that - someone else’s. In my case, part of it is probably that, as I get older, I have to face the fact that I’m no longer fast enough or brave enough to get the best out of something like the 301 and partly that there’s a strange satisfaction from being able to do pretty much everything that I’m willing to risk doing on a rigid single speed.

And, although I may be old, I don’t think that I ride like an old woman.

YMMV, as they say...

I've reverted to my BFe (basically a rolling spare parts bike) after my Spitfire died.  Two rides in since, and it is brutal.  I want an FS.

Simple answer really, go and do as many demo rides on as many demo bikes as you can before deciding.

I along with many other have been riding “off road” bikes since the ‘80s

I retired my Bontrager after 16yrs use and bought a Ragley Blue Pig.

I rode my first full sus bike in Verbier on the STW holiday, a Kona Coiler.

After 3yrs sampling many bikes I chose a Kona Dawg in ‘05, still ride it occasionally since I got it back from son and it is still good fun.

The Kona was upgraded by a Rocky Mountain Altitude in 2015.

So on Tuesdays night ride I will be on my Pig. On Saturday at 10under the Ben I’ll be on my 27.5 Rocky. Next week I’ll have my Ridley X Trail “gravel bike” back from the menders.

I’m fortunate atm to be able to afford multiple bikes, this was not always the case. I’m just old and theoretically free of child costs...... translated to grand child and bank of mum and dad!!!!!!

Some people can and have been lucky on the 2nd hand market, others not so.......

Depends where /what terrain you ride. For where I ride a hardtail is adequate for maybe 80% of trails, for the 20% of rougher trails a full-sus is desirable. I can either ride hardtail and get absolutely battered 20% of the time, or ride a full-sus and ride a magic carpet over the rougher 20%, and not really lose anything on the other 80% either to be honest.

if you've never tried a full-sus bike then you owe it to yourself to at least own and ride one for a while.

I have a rigid bike and short and long travel FS.  I like them all, they all ride differently, I ride them differently.

If most of your riding is equivalent to trail centre "Red" or above then they are better, more comfortable/faster/safer all at the same time I think. They ride better on techy and/or rough sections whether they're uphill, downhill or flat.

If the riding has a lot of Road, fireroad, canals, tame bridleways, Trail Centre "Blue" or "Green" routes or equivalent, a full suss will provide little benefit over the HT if any.

Since most of my rides are either Trail Centre Red/Black or an XC ride that will try to take in as much as possible that is equivalent to trail centre red/black, that's why I have the FS.

The weight difference makes no noticeable difference to me between my 13.5kg FS or 11kg HT, on smooth sections the speed/effort feels about the same, so I rarely see any advantage in taking the HT out.

However in terms of maintenance costs I think the FS probably only adds on about 20-25% extra cost through the year compared to a HT? (assuming both bikes have a dropper post, 10/11 speed drive train, hydraulic brakes, etc)

It does depend a lot on what and where you ride, I've found it beneficial going from a (quite heavy) steel 26er to a lighter alloy 29er, less weight and better rollover does help IMO.

I've only ever really had FS bikes for DH, and those were bought and maintained on the cheap, I've newer had one that I enjoyed pedalling miles on. That maybe has coloured my ideas about them, so they're something I tend to have in addition to a HT, not instead of one.

So I'm still a HT fan, but I do find myself looking at more modern bouncers and I having strated to feel a little more beaten towards the end of some rides and maybewwanting to indulge in the odd uplift day, there's some appeal there...

Surely it's more expensive to maintain a hardtail than a full suss?The frame,parts and of course your body take a hell of a battering.Would an off road  vehicle ever be designed with suspension only at one end?Course it wouldn't.

Just the frame bearings and rear shock maintenance on the FS, compared to more components taking a beating and getting broken on the HT.

Some people ride a HT at least "some" of the time claiming it keeps maintenance costs down but the 2 extra things on the FS isn't that much more. When you've got a drive train, hydraulic brakes,dropper posts, bottom bracket,  wheel bearings/hubs, headset s, wheels, tyres, pads, forks, to maintain/replace on both bikes the additional 2 extras on the FS are probably only 20-25% extra cost (in parts+labour)

I reckon I could ride my 120/100mm and 140/125mm travel bikes for around 8 laps around my favourite blue, boredom notwithstanding, before my legs gave out. The reason I haven’t tried is the aforementioned boredom

I can ride my hardtail (admittedly rigid) for 3 laps of the same favourite blue before my back gives out. I have tried this and half way round the last week f those laps I’d have given my teeth for an FS but, alas, they’d all rattled out...

(Gisburn, if you are keen to repeat the experience, as I’m not.)

Thanks chaps for all the input. Consensus seems to be yes, I do need one. The only trouble now is convincing myself to part with the HT (Genesis Latitude) as N=2 at my house so its one in, one out.

Depends on where you ride and how you ride. Also, a good hardtail is better than a mediocre full-sus.

Depends on where you ride and how you ride. Also, a good hardtail is better than a mediocre full-sus.

Depends, 'at what' A good FS can be something like the Boardman, a Giant Anthem or a Whyte T-130 for example, cost £1000 or even less used. For the HT to be 'better' on rough terrain, it's going to have to be exceptionally good.

With the invention of lockout, you can essentially turn a FS into a HT for only a small weight penalty, you can't turn a HT into an FS though...

FS's these days climb exceptionally well, go over the bumpy bits well, are comfortable ..  etc etc.

I still have a HT and i use it sometimes when i go out and will be doing only road... it's lighter and the 29er wheels roll well.

But i've done back to back tests with the T-130 even on the road and there's seconds in it over a 5 min segment... literally 2-3 either way.

Ive got 2 HT's and one Full Suss....

My FS gets 90% of the use....

I can ride my hardtail (admittedly rigid) for 3 laps of the same favourite blue before my back gives out. I have tried this and half way round the last week f those laps I’d have given my teeth for an FS but, alas, they’d all rattled out…

(Gisburn, if you are keen to repeat the experience, as I’m not.)

I took the XC HT round... the blue and red... declined the Hope Line and Black thank you...

My Aggressive Steel HT... I'd do the black and the Hope Line but quite honestly wouldn't want to cycle it that far.

At 50 I'd feel properly beat up...

I took the HT to 417 this weekend.(as well as my FS).. rode the blue DH no problems until I got a pinch flat (luckily at the bottom) and would happily take it onto the Red... BUT ... I wouldn't want to do it all the time.  After the pinch flat I got back on the FS (which is 140 front/130 rear) and its just so much more comfortable

Consensus seems to be yes, I do need one

You don't need one, but you might want one.

IMO they are better at being an MTB at almost everything than a hardtail.

And yet I ride my hardtail more - why? because better does not always equal more fun.

Ask yourself why you want the full sus. You’ll loose that direct ground feeling you get with a hardtail. Set-up for efficiency the full-sus wont grant you any extra comfort, just speed. Set up for comfort- they’re a pain to get up steep technical climbs.

Totally disagree with that. A good full-suss bike set up well is more comfortable, faster and better at technical climbing than a hardtail. More fun too IMHO. I reckon one day racers too will be running suspension soft enough to work, just like roadies are now running wider tyres. Only things really going for hardtails are weight, cost and maintenance.

It’s worth having both if you can - although if I could only have one mtb it’d definitely be a full suss.

Took my play hardtail off-road for the first time on trails last week and I enjoyed it, but he terrain is pretty easy that I took it on. Wouldn’t want to get much more rough and rocky on it.

HT is a Kona Caldera with 100mm Bomber 1’s / decent discs / 2.4” tyres. Probably weighs around 28lbs.

FS is a Bird Aeris 145 - 160mm travel at both ends / 2.5 and 2.3” tyres run tubeless. Guess it weighs around 32lbs.

I wasn’t much quicker on the pedally bits on the HT if at all (although I did alright with a few Strava pr’s) and anything vaguely bumpy it was slower.

Drop offs were the biggest eye opener but I think that’s the short travel forks that are a bit too soft for me.

I’m intending to ride the HT a bit more often on the local easy trails just for the change / to see if it improves my bike handling skills and fitness.

For your budget if I knew a bit about bikes I’d go secondhand - if not then I think a Bossnut Evo might be the best option. I previously thought the Boardman Team FS was pretty good, but I had a go on one a month ago and the front end was very high and the bike felt really old school short.

And yet I ride my hardtail more – why? because better does not always equal more fun.

This.

If your metric for fun is speed and comfort, then FS all the way.

Others measure their fun against the acheivment against less than perfect conditions. Some do both, others neither.

Think about how you get your fun on a ride, that's probably the best guide for whether you 'need' an FS. That said, if you've never had one before, you should get one just so you don't shut away the potential for even more shits and giggles!

If N=2, could the ht go in the loft?

Surely it’s more expensive to maintain a hardtail than a full suss?The frame,parts and of course your body take a hell of a <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">battering</span>

Err, no.

Rear shock service + bearing change annually. What's that, £150-200? Even doing that every other year is £75-100

I pick up a pinch puncture a year in average, so that is £3 inner tube. And, well that's it.

(Oab_household has 3x FS, 2xHT and 2x rigid as a comparison sample size)

Rear shock service + bearing change annually. What’s that, £150-200? Even doing that every other year is £75-100

Arguably excessive. I've rarely serviced bouncy bits.

If N=2, could the ht go in the loft?

Unfortunately not, but it has crossed my mind to paint everything the same colour.

Believe its called Plausible Deniability!

Rear shock service + bearing change annually. What’s that, £150-200? Even doing that every other year is £75-100

Arguably excessive. I’ve rarely serviced bouncy bits

If you ride quite a lot (like 2-4 times a week during the "biking season" and maybe once a week in the "off-season" doing say 4000 miles  a year) I can see it costing £200 a year on the extra maintenance on the FS. Unless you do these jobs yourself, can reduce the costs, but it takes quite a lot of technical knowledge to be able to do a shock service and pivot bearings yourself. It is something that I am nowhere good enough yet to attempt, and I've been riding FS's for three years.

£200 extra a year on FS compared to HT isn't that much if you ride a lot, and think its worth it when it improves 3 very important things on a ride: speed, comfort and safety. If I do 100 "proper" rides a year that's only an extra £2 per ride.

Plus, when your competing with people who you know on Strava, the FS makes it possible to compete on rough/techy sections. Wouldn't like to be doing that on a HT and thinking I've got a disadvantage all the time.

From starting with a basic Voodoo hard tail I've always wanted something better, first it was a better HT, then a FS, then a Dropper Post, then a Longer travel FS with a better Dropper Post.

Now that I've got two FS's it doesn't stop there, I'm now often thinking of the next thing that will give me an advantage/make me faster: A Full Suspension E-Bike. If only I had more spare money.

 

If you ride quite a lot (like 2-4 times a week during the “biking season” and maybe once a week in the “off-season” doing say 4000 miles  a year) I can see it costing £200 a year on the extra maintenance on the FS. Unless you do these jobs yourself, can reduce the costs, but it takes quite a lot of technical knowledge to be able to do a shock service and pivot bearings yourself. It is something that I am nowhere good enough yet to attempt, and I’ve been riding FS’s for three years.

To be fair pivot bearings are pretty simple with the right extractor/press and even using a hack one it's pretty easy and I paid £12 for a full set ...

Aircan service is 10 mins of a job... vs a full shock service but if you keep the aircan clean you don't need to do a full service very often... for not much more than £200/yr you can also just buy a half decent shock...  my spare/light riding shock cost me £109... and the kids spare shock assembly about the same.  (all new) and DU bushings are only £5 - £10 .. (course it took a while to find them at this price but not as long as a full service interval)

My spare shock was a ML3 tune that came off a new bike with a heavier rider... my kids was bought in 2 parts £90 for the main assembly and £3 for the aircan.  I still need to get this tuned though so it will end up costing me another £70... and my original shock I'll get changed to a ML3 tune when it goes for a full service.

“Depends, ‘at what’ A good FS can be something like the Boardman, a Giant Anthem or a Whyte T-130 for example, cost £1000 or even less used. For the HT to be ‘better’ on rough terrain, it’s going to have to be exceptionally good.”

I think you’ll fine I said that a good hardtail is better than a mediocre full-sus. I’m not a hardtail zealot, I prefer my full-sus most of the time but I’d rather ride my Zero AM on gnarly trails than lots of generic cheap full-sus bikes with feeble forks and sketchy geometry.