As per title really. Worth getting one? On the one hand I like my face, on the other hand uplifts will probably be once or twice a year and I'm far from a rapid rider. But then I do want to push myself a bit more...
And if so which one? Seen a good deal on an Endura MT500 which is tempting.
Yes. Mt500 is fine, my son has one and it's a good balance of weight, ventilation and protection.
Well that was easy!
I always use a trail lid but I’m not that fast and prefer tech to speed
Same here to be honest. Not been for years but the speed you can carry on some of the blues could easily result in a nasty wipe out. And I won't be touching the red jump lines. Not my thing.
BPW rent FF helmets at a reasonable price, as I found out one time I forgot mine.
Oh that's interesting. How much was it?
There's no real disadvantage to an FF.
Last time I just rode in a trail helmet but I'm a blue/easy red kind of guy riding a last gen geometry 120mm FS bike. Speeds are a bit higher on the blues than most places I ride but I'm not doing much by way of big drops jumps etc.
I've probably taken similar overall risk levels on big stoney rides in the Peak District when on holiday.
If I were on a bigger bike with a bit more momentum and capability I think I would want the FF just in case through progression during the day I reached a point where my enthusiasm exceeded my talent.
I've ridden with both, I think overall, the FF option is probably the better option, especially later in the day when you've done a few runs and the speeds going up because you know the tracks a bit better but you're losing a bit of focus because you're getting more tired
Yeah it's the combination of enthusiasm, limited talent and 'just one more run' that worries me.
If you're not pedaling up then FF is the way for almost all riding
I've used both a trail helmet and a FF. Last time out I had my new-ish Leatt Enduro which is convertible from trail to FF. Prefer that to my old Fox Proframe. Normally I'm not a fan of goggle either but really didn't notice the FF or the googles though the day.
I hardly ever wear a FF outside of the bike park, but can't see me going back to a trail helmet whenever there's an uplift trailer.
FF for me every time
I overshot a table and nosedived on the warmup to the uplift once 🤣
everyone should have a FF
If your only use it once or twice a year, then it will last for years… what’s not to like?
I'm generally quite casual about this and happy to ride most stuff in open face, but as well as the uplift BPW is usually fast and sometimes very high consequence. Like, if you have a crash at speed on rim dinger or deep navigation or something, both tracks that can also be a little bit wheel-grabby, then you're going to regret it. It's one of the few places I don't really ask the question, I just go straight fullface
I always think that if you aren’t pedalling up the hills, you may as well wear a full face. And if you aren’t pedalling much, then you probably won’t need a well ventilated (and im guessing expensive) one. Likewise knee and forearm armour and any other armour or pads you fancy. long sleeves and legs and heavier fabrics for your clothes are also a possible on an uplift without becoming uncomfortably hot.
I always think that if you aren’t pedalling up the hills, you may as well wear a full face. And if you aren’t pedalling much, then you probably won’t need a well ventilated (and im guessing expensive) one. Likewise knee and forearm armour and any other armour or pads you fancy. long sleeves and legs and heavier fabrics for your clothes are also a possible on an uplift without becoming uncomfortably hot.
I tend to sweat as much as BPW using the uplift as I do riding normal trails tbh.
I went to Antur for the first time in October. Also my first uplift. I bought a cheap full face helmet as I figured it was cheaper and less painfully than having my face or teeth surgically put together again.
I also use it when riding Grenoside as it just gives me more confidence that if I do stack it into a tree I'll be slightly better off.
I'm not a fast rider by any means, more of an XC bimbler, but glad I got one.
everyone should have a FF
If your only use it once or twice a year, then it will last for years… what’s not to like?
Unless you are careful with storage they won’t last for years as the foam degrades and becomes useless at impact absorption after about 3 years. Then you riding with false confidence and less protection than a trail lid.
Unless you are careful with storage
You mean store it in the dark and it will last damn near forever?
According to the team at BPW most of their significant crashes happen on the 'easier' trails. Rapid speed gain without the skills to match can hurt.
Nowt wrong with wearing something with a little more protection, even if it's just to prevent superficial damage. 👍🏻
I bought one of these to use at Antor Stiniog a few years ago cheaply from Chiggle. It's not light and it's far too warm to peddle in but does the job for uplift days and offers much more protection than an open lid. For £40 they're great.
https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/4054717
I had this dilemma last year when planning my first ever trip to a bike park (BPW). I eventually decided to buy a full-face. It may only get used a couple of times a year, but it means I do have better protection and do have a helmet suitable for "full-face only" places. Then I experienced a bit/lot of budget creep. Ended up with a Fox Proframe RS for its better fit and ventilation.
You mean store it in the dark and it will last damn near forever?
I'm not sure how true that statement is about the dark but BPW has a helmet ageing rule - 3 years max.
https://www.bikeparkwales.com/rider-safety
You mean store it in the dark and it will last damn near forever?
I'm not sure how true that statement is about the dark but BPW has a helmet ageing rule - 3 years max.
That's interesting.
Anyone ever had their helmet checked?
Problem with that is when you buy a helmet from LBS or wherever it could have been sat in stock for 12 months or longer from the manufacturing date.
So what do you do?
Take the receipt and say "yes it's 3 years old but I only purchased it 2 years ago"
Oh, in answer to the OP - full face for the win on any uplift for me.
The Endura MT500 will be fine 👍
I have the Endura Single-track full face, it's insanely light and struggle to see how it's got the same DH certification as my POC full face which is significantly heavier and less vented.
I thought the helmet degrading thing over time had been pretty much debunked. As long as you don't leave it in the sun baking all day I'm sure it will be fine.
Even of the foam is a bit old I'm pretty sure the chin guard will help keep your face in one piece.
Full face for sure. Plus as much padding as you can muster. I have Fox Titan MX body armour for above the waist inc full arms, Endura padded shorts and Raceface combined knee and shin pads.
I bought one of these to use at Antor Stiniog a few years ago cheaply from Chiggle. It's not light and it's far too warm to peddle in but does the job for uplift days and offers much more protection than an open lid. For £40 they're great.
https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/4054717
I saw those actually - none in my size though I don't think.
I ride the reds and blues at BPW and don't own a full face helmet. Never felt the need as anything below black is not really any naughtier than my usual riding which I've always used a trail helmet for.
Might get some knee pads though after my pal came off on Kermit first run of the day, sliced his knee down to the bone and spent the rest of the day in A&E!
I've just ordered a Leatt Gravity of Sport Pursuit. Went for the 2.0 version mainly because I liked the colour better. Yes, I am that shallow.
I bought my first FF helmet for BPW this weekend (have borrowed one for the previous two trips). You can get the Endura Singletrack MIPS for £99 in a couple of places, which is light, well ventilated and DH rated. It'll be light enough to pedal in, so I'll also probably use it at the more local 'spicey' spots I ride, not just uplift days.
So, I was happy with my head protection. Now need to replace knee pads and look at elbow, chest & back protection, as I felt a bit vulnerable without.
I've always been a bit 'minimalist' when it comes to protection, but you can reach insane speeds even on the 'easy' blue trails, and even when riding fairly cautiously (as I do), and a loose-gravel front wheel wash out when it's dry & dusty, or a pedal clip on a root/rock, or get your line just slightly wrong, can have big consequences.
Havent read the full thread
but yes, no reason not to, there are some trails that you can get quite some considerable speed on, there are also rocks everywhere.....
Also, had the MT500 (had 2 infact) and actually used to pedal everywhere for a few years in my first one, it was that good
Any uplift = FF for me.
I've got a Troy Lee Stage FFer for stuff where I'm pedalling uphill like Golfie, but proper uplift I go with my iDP/7Protection M1 that cost around £50. Not that light, not the best ventilated, but damn good fit and comfy for me. Same model was previously sold as the 661 Comp which I had before and retired after a lot of use.
Full face, knee pads and elbow pads on uplifts for me. It’s an insurance policy and like most insurance policies I hope not to call on. At Dyfi, Revs, some of the Morzine stuff, etc.. I step it up to body armour, but I am well aware of my limited skill set 😬
Seen enough mtbers sprawled across trails at bike parks to make me think why not.
Agree re crashes on the blues at BPW, and even Kermit, Launch Pad at FoD, etc..
things like the blues are rapid and the ground is solid. I'd be happier wearing a half lid on 50 shades than the blues tbh
Oh that's interesting. How much was it?
Just checked on their website and its currently £16
The time I needed to hire one - I had grabbed my very old FF (>10yr) by accident (packing early in the morning half awake) rather than my functional but also (>3yr) old FF and the strap broke when I was putting it on so its not just the shell and foam that degrades over time.
I now have a "new" FF but its already a year old! How quickly time passes
Nice one, I couldn't find that on the website. Bought one now anyway, but it's good to know that hire is an option. I figure for less than £60 I don't need that many trips before it pays for itself. Plus I can use it at places like Grenoside.
I find that even when stored in the dark at about 3 years the polystyrene has gone hard meaning it has lost its impact absorption properties.
What's the process for that? A clean helmet stored in the dark and away from heat isn't going to change in any way. It is only using a helmet (drops, sun, heat, sweat etc) that "ages" them.
I find that even when stored in the dark at about 3 years the polystyrene has gone hard meaning it has lost its impact absorption properties.
What's the process for that? A clean helmet stored in the dark and away from heat isn't going to change in any way. It is only using a helmet (drops, sun, heat, sweat etc) that "ages" them.
I don’t know I’m not a materials engineer. I’ve just noticed it and doing the old fingernail test you can feel the difference. I’ve been in sports that use helmets for 30 years and all seem to follow a 3 year lifespan as they all use the same method for impact absorption.
Im assuming these guys have forgotten more than I will ever know
Im assuming these guys have forgotten more than I will ever know
They are going to have a little bias towards selling you stuff but did you read what that says? Suggests to me degradation comes from use not age.
How long helmets last and how often you should change your bike helmet is largely a question of how and how often you use your helmet. But every 3–5 years is a good rule of thumb. If you ride your bike daily, it will obviously be more exposed to sun and general wear and tear than if you only use it a couple of times a month.
https://helmets.org/replace.htm
^ US-based but my understanding is that's one of the most independent no-skin-in-the-game organisations when it comes to bike helmet discussion. General summary:
* UV degradation is a real thing
* sweat doesn't degrade foam but can affect pads and adhesives
* use rather than age is the main factor in when to replace
everyone should have a FF
If your only use it once or twice a year, then it will last for years… what’s not to like?
Helmets do technically expire, so renting maybe better cost wise then buying for some.
"technically expire" ?
I'll take my chances on my own full face that gets used a couple of times a year over a rental that I don't know the history of... any day.
It's good that BPW has them to hire though.
Leave your helmet in a sunny porch and yes, the outer shell will weaken from UV like if you rode it in loads and loads. Keep it somewhere dark and dry and I suspect it'll last until you notice the foam degrading - which will take decades.
I can't find any science anywhere showing that expanded polystyrene changes over time if stored suitably.
I replace trail helmets because I wear the same one for commuting and all my other rides - but I get a good few years before crashes / low branches etc have done it in. I've still got the same full-face I bought after crashing on my previous full-face 13 years ago! Lives in a bag in storage in the house. Mostly wear it for trips to Wales so it never sees much UV at all! 😉
This is how my helmets get stored in my garden office
I tend to go all in on helmets.
Have a (Fox) Speedframe Pro that now gets used for gravel. A Speedframe RS for steady MTB rides. Dropframe Pro for chunkier rides. Proframe for bike parks. BELL Super DH convertible that doesn't really get used much.
And just ordered the new Dropframe Pro that I'll probably wear for some spicy stuff, or send back cos it looks ridiculous on my heed.
the MT500 FF helmet is quite narrow - if you have a big head or high cheek bones - beware - i have one and it pinches my cheeks - so much so it gives me a headache if worn alot. I bought another lid that fits better.
if you are on the uplift take a full face - even if just doing blues. there are still jumps n rocks n stuff on the blues.
I ride the reds and blues at BPW and don't own a full face helmet. Never felt the need as anything below black is not really any naughtier than my usual riding which I've always used a trail helmet for.
Same, been every year since my son was old enough and not felt the need. He has one now, but he does proper jumps. Only thing I've injured at BPW is ribs and you can't get protection for them. Do have knee & elbow pads now, so I'll use them next time. My ears don't sit happily with FF helmets (I have a metal insert in left ear) - putting on and taking off hurts! so I'll not be getting one. Wouldn't want to give myself a false sense of security either. Ride within your limits old man 😀
Seeing as my POC FF is getting on for 6 years old and I have a BC course booked I thought it wise to get a new on.
Just picked this up off Tredz:
Daughter has one (well on her second now...) and they're pretty sturdy - saved her head on a massive OTB at Nevis Range.
Some good prices on SportPursuit at the mo I noticed - POC for £108, Fox around £100, a very well vented looking Kali for £87 + Some Leatt full facers for £40!
As with a few others, I don't wear a full face at Bike Park Wales. I tend to ride the Blues, Reds and a few of the Blacks, actively avoiding the bigger jump lines. I generally know when I'm tired and am happy to call it a day.
If I was pushing my limits I would probably wear one, but, for me, BPW is more about riding as many laps as possible at 90%.
The new Dropframe turned up and looks ok tbh. Works pretty well with the Fox Purevue open goggles for a bit of a halfway house on the helmet and goggle options without going all out on both aspects
From> https://helmets.org/replace.htm <
"In 2015 MEA Forensic reported on their extensive testing of used (but not crashed) bicycle helmets shows that the foam liners retain their performance over many years. Some of the helmets were as old as 26 years. They crash tested 675 helmets in their lab. Their analysis showed that there was no significant impact performance change with age........ After crash testing the helmets on a standard test rig, MEA took core samples from an uncrashed area of 63 helmets and tested them. This generated data based solely on the foam performance. Again, the findings indicate that helmet liner foam does not deteriorate with age. "
How’d you get on with the Pureview when it’s wet? Any mud get under them? Ta!
I don't wear a FF helmet there. I probably should. But I just don't like them.
I don't ride differently to anywhere else so there wouldn't much rationale. I get the thing about speed though, particularly on the blues or easy reds. However I am confident that I would take more risks with a FF 😂.
Obviously if I was doing huge jumps on the blacks then yeah I would, but I don't, too old for that.
ive got a photo of my partner at the BPW cafe holding a scuffed Fox rampage full face helmet and a facial expression thats saying "im trying very hard to not think about the life altering facial injury ive just avoided" - Id share it, but she wouldn't thank me for it.
We're strictly wheels on the ground bimblers on the the green and blue only at BPW (but because we're old - not because we lack skills - we've been riding for decades) We had been to BPW a number of times on our own XC bikes before and hadn't really considered full face, but on this occasion we were hiring so we didnt need to take bikes. we hired the helmets more because I'd never worn one before so wanted to try it out.
She doesnt really know what happened (she blacked out for a few seconds) but I think she probably became accidentally airborne (poppty ping) bars hit a tree and she smeared the chin and whole side of the face aperture along the trail. walked away with no lasting damage but if she'd been in her own helmet it just doesnt bear thinking about.
so yeah, hire a lid at BPW for me
Anyone know how much the one-day FF helmet hire at BPW is so I can do the cost/benefit analysis?
Disregard, I had missed it but have now just spotted it above. Ta.
How’d you get on with the Pureview when it’s wet? Any mud get under them? Ta!
Only used them once or twice and not in mud/wet, so not sure tbh. Can't be any worse than normal glasses I guess