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I ride an '06 Enduro S-Works (150mm travel) with 160mm forks.
I had a ride on a mates Alpine 160 a few days ago, similar set up to my Enduro with 160mm forks, and it had so much front wheel grip compared to my Enduro. It just stuck in corners.
The bikes have the same front tyre and similar bar/stem length/height, so I'm guessing it's down to the frame geometry?
The Alpine is about 2 deg slacker head angle and felt slightly shorter than my Enduro. Is it just the slack head angle that gives better grip, or is it a combination of all frame angles taken together?
Amount of weight over the front wheel? If yours is longer then there'll be less weight over the front?
A number of small differences could add up to a big difference IYKWIM
Would've thought that a slacker HTA would put your weight back providing LESS grip on the front, unless the seat angle is steeper, pitching your centre of gravity futher forward?
Could also be the simpler explaination of being the nut connected to the handlebars 🙂
One dial adjusted out on a set of forks can make the difference. Is the grip different on smooth corners or bumpy terrain?
it was a tight corner on loosish hardpack. on my bike I find the front end a little loose and 'wandery', the Alpine just stuck and railed it. forks on the alpine were set quite stiff so i don't think it's the forks either.
Saddle was dropped so I don't think seat angle would make a difference?
you will probably find the alpine has a longer effective top tube, if bar height/stem length is similar on both you will have more weight on the front wheel of the alpine, you dont give frame sizes but a medium specialized compared to an 18" alpine has around 12mm shorter top tube (2009/10 frame sizes), if this is the case a 10-15mm longer stem should even things up a bit
forks on the alpine were set quite stiff so i don't think it's the forks either.
Within reason a stiff fork could give you more grip on a loose corner as it'll be more stable and wallow less compared to a badly setup fork on your own bike.
Alpine is 16" with 50mm sem and Enduro is a medium with 70mm stem and low BB position on the shock shuttle. The forks on my Enduro are 55TST2 with a shim stack modded damper and are very supple. I also run a fair bit of sag. The 36 floats on the Alpine are set quite firm with the damong set to middle settings (he's not really a fettler).
What is 'effective' top tube? I've heard it mentioned before but never really figured out what it is.
I'll set my forks up stiffer and see if that makes a difference.
Ta
effective top tubes will be similar for both bikes then, it may just be the slacker alpine gives you more more confidence to weight the bike in the turns. Even minor changes to bar position can make a massive handling difference so it is probably down to setup. Effective top tube is the horizontal distance from the top of the top tube to the seat post, it gives an indication of the length of the frame and therefore reach.
There are so many things to consider. Here's some set up things to think about:
1.How is the rebound set between both forks? If your rebound is to fast it can push/bouce the wheel out (understeer) through the corner.
2.If your combination of preload and compression is too soft it could mean the fork is diving too much and putting you over the top of the wheel rather than behind it.
3.Is it possible that the whole nature of the FS vs HT means that the rear tyre is [i]too[/i] well connected while the HT will be skipping/sliding more. What are the rear tyres on each bike?
4.If your breaking hard into the corner and the bike is not settled then the bike could be jacking up. Not sure how this will affect and usually the whole bike will be compressed in the corner if done correctly.
Effective top tube is the horizontal distance from the top of the top tube to the seat post, it gives an indication of the length of the frame and therefore reach.
I see. I think they are both similar as you say.
3.Is it possible that the whole nature of the FS vs HT means that the rear tyre is too well connected while the HT will be skipping/sliding more. What are the rear tyres on each bike?
They're both FS, it's an Orange Alpine 160 not a Dialled Alpine (just my lazy typing). Rear tyres are the same. 2.4 Advantage F/R on both
I've just checked and the rebound on my forks was very fast, so I'll have a play with that and see what happens. I'll stiffen them up too to stop them diving as much.
all other things being equal and working well
in simple terms it's just a matter of weight more weight on the front gives more grip
some of the ways you can increase the amount of weight on the front are
raise the rear ride height (more spring preload)
lower the front ride height ( less preload)
move the rider forward,,
have a play with settings,, but remeber to write all changes down so you can go back if things dont work out
It might just be 5 PSI in the tyres... Siffer forks over smoother loose terrain should grip better if you put your weight through the front of the bike.- Maybe you ought to try his bike out on the same corner and see what's going on?
cheers for the info guys, I'll just have to play around with all these settings to see if I can get the Enduro feeling that good.
It was just such a noticable difference in grip on the Alpine, made me think '**** that turned in well' The corner is only 10 mins ride from home so I'll have to do some playing/fiddling with the settings.