[Closed] Front Suspension - Is it just me or is it crap?

It's just a case of getting used to it. My first bike with suspension was a ludicrous Alpine Stars abomination with new-fangled RST 80mm travel forks. It weighed about twice my rigid Carrera so actually felt quite sluggish and grounded.

To answer your question, yes, you can get a lot more weight over the front on descents. It used to be called the "Attack Position". And it's not crap, it's a bazillion and twelfty times better.

Your probably in the minority there!

I'd suggest from what you were describing you had little to no weight over the front at all, which explains whats going on with the wheel. You need to keep the front tyre in contact with the ground in order to make it stick. Setting up the fork to allow you to get over the front a bit more would help.
Same idea of a car with no weight over the front wheels really.

If you have had a long break then maybe some time spent brushing up on your skills with a little help might be a good idea. Some coaching may help you to adjust with confidence and pick up some ideas for going forward.

My first ride on a modern bike was like that, it's amazing how much of our riding used to be about not being killed while trying to traverse a twig 😆 Yep let it work, a suspension fork isn't really about soaking up bumps, we have arms for that, it's about grip- you can soak up a drop but you can't track like suspension tracks.

Make sure you set the sag properly on the fork. Coming from a rigid you may actually want to run your forks a bit firmer for more feedback.

Check your QR is done up and your tyre isn't flat.

But if you didn't lose your wheel then your QR is probably ok. If you didn't get a flat tyre then you probably have enough air in it.

If you're used to fully rigid then the extra traction should enable you to ride the same stuff faster.

Can't help but wonder if after 15 years of not trying to batter yourself between bike and scenery that pretty much anything would have felt stupid! That said, every time I have been told to stop being scared and get over the front, I have been in (more) control...

Maybe you've not setup your fork, or it's a crap fork?

It's just you.

You need to get used to it.

Is your frame suitable for 120mm forks?

I've always had far more success getting a wheel in a suspension fork to go where I point it.

With rigid forks you tend to just point them in the general direction you want to go and hope they don't get pinged too far off line.

Also, if the frame is designed for a 150mm fork then you'll be steepening the head angle by a degree or two before you start factoring suspension movement beyond the sag point which will affect how it all feels.

Check your tire pressure isn't too high up front, the suspension is to track the ground, not soak up everything, so the tyre still has to have some give in it.

As above, weight over the front a bit more and attack the corners...

Its you. Front suspension is ace. You will have to adjust your riding style to start trusting and using the suspension.

I think i'm in a minority here, but i just don't get on with hardtails that have more than 100mm up front, as soon as the trail gets steep and the forks compress the front end just gets way to low and the head angle way to steep.

If i'm riding trails that are going to need more travel then for me i'll be taking the full sus.

Some forks are undeniably crap. Like most MTB parts there's a dangerous middle ground of components which are aspirational, affordable and work quite well 70% of the time but sacrifice strength for lightness and imho forks are one of the worst offenders.

Proper ace forks that aren't as heavy as a boat anchor and actually go up-and-down instead of backwards and forwards and side-to-side are quite rare and £££££££££££££££££££££££££££

OP. Like a few people said is sounds like you should book a training session. Hanging off the back is not the best technique for a suspended MTB. I went for a training session with the Jedi last year and it was extremely good as readdressing my riding style.

I made the change last year after a similar hiatus.

It has taken a year to learn the new riding position required, but my confidence and speed have really gone up with suspension.

I'd agree with the head angle thing, hardtails with head angles of, i guess 68 degrees? or more shouldn't have more than 100mm up front so your forks may be wrong for the frame, slacker angles allow longer travel.

[i]I think i'm in a minority here, but i just don't get on with hardtails that have more than 100mm up front,[/i]

Depends on the fork and the geometry of the frame really. I've been riding HT with at least 140mm for years and current frame (Shan) has a 160 Lyrik on the front. Is fine

Front Suspension is better than Rigid for general XC riding end of.

You just need to learn to get used to it.

However increasingly it seems to me if you going to have front suspension you might as well have rear suspension. Its not like full sussers are super expensive any more.

The only time you'd really need a Front Sus only bike is for jumping / free ride.

Saying that I also use a rigid 29er for easier trails just to make it a bit more exciting.

I echo the comments above most likely to do with riding style, setup and just getting used to how the bike feels.

EDIT

Rocketman I don't think it is the case anymore especially with forks like RS Sektors

Yup, suspension forks feel weird at first. It'll likely take a few rides for you to feel semi-confident with them and a few more before you'll trust them not to kill you entering a corner. You can get away with having more weight over the front of the bike and this is what you should focus on when you're next out riding. It might take a few rides to undo old habits, but stick with it - a whole new world of grip awaits.

long travel HTs are ace (until you reach a certain age and realise that you want full bounce)

As mentioned, with a decent fork, you'll be wanting to run a high front tyre pressure, apply more weight to the front to keep the fork active, and finally and imo, most importantly, decent cornering confidence comes from what you do with your hips, not what you do with the bars!! 😉

That's an awful lot of feedback - thanks. And yes, I knew it was just me!

Incidentally the bike is a Stanton Slackline with Fox 32 talas - I am 6ft 2 with legs like Naomi Campbell, only mine are hairier and a light blue colour.

So after reading all these posts I have:
- decreased the sag
- increased the air pressure in the fork (I am 210 lbs)
- increased the rebound speed
- set the forks at 150mm instead of 120mm - surprisingly to me this feels much much better
- ordered a longer stem to replace my 60mm one so I can get more weight over the front of the bike

I went for a spin round the block and the above changes have made a big difference - thanks again.

Another thing that is odd with suspension forks... say you are riding along a trail at speed and encounter a small root spanning the path. On a rigid I would have hit the root straight on to kick the front wheel up and done 'a wee jump' - as we say in Scotland. I tried that with a my new suspension fork and of course bugger all happens as you get no lift since the fork just soaks it all up. Talk about fun removal! Mind you that's probably just me as well.

I am sure getting used to the forks will be an uphill struggle, wait... I mean downhill.

Jumping off roots etc still works! It'll come.

You need to compress the forks into the roots to make the front come up for "wee jumps"

I agree with Bazz, too much travel up front feels weird and unbalanced. I have to have my ht forks set pretty hard otherwise it just feels awful and divey. And mostly unbalanced.

Nah, don't listen to this lot.
Rigid is where it's at.
With a big ol' tyre.
Throw the sus fork in a loch or something.
Best place for it.
😉

Another thing that is odd with suspension forks... say you are riding along a trail at speed and encounter a small root spanning the path. On a rigid I would have hit the root straight on to kick the front wheel up and done 'a wee jump' - as we say in Scotland. I tried that with a my new suspension fork and of course bugger all happens as you get no lift since the fork just soaks it all up. Talk about fun removal! Mind you that's probably just me as well.

Definitely just you. The timing of your movements to pop off little bumps/roots is different with a sus fork compared to a rigid (and different again with full-sus), but it's still pretty simple.

You should find after a while that you maybe get a smidge less "bounce" and hence height with suspension, but it should be more controlled and smoother.

I'd leave the 60mm stem on there! Keep your weight through the pedals unless you're leaning on the inside hand for a corner.

Jumping off roots (and all jumping) is more about launching off the rear wheel whilst holding the front (slightly) up. Load the fork, let it batter over the root and then let it kick the rear wheel into the air as you manual the front end.

ordered a longer stem to replace my 60mm one so I can get more weight over the front of the bike

Hold fire with doing that until you have a proper ride. Long stem on a Slackline seems fairly wrong

Be careful how fast you have the rebound set. After setting up the bos forks on my dh bike to what I thought was a good setting I then followed the set up guide that bos suggested. This called for a much slower rebound and do you know what, they were right. You do not want a pogo stick.

Don't get a longer stem as others have said you'll just end up with too much weight over the front and your bike will handle like a barge.

Having said all that, it's your bike so you can do what you like. If you take any advice spend a day on some familiar trails and the take the time to set up your suspension. Start for a base settings and record the changes you make. Go to each extreme setting (ride carefully though, no heroics) to see what the settings do so you have a solid understanding of what is happening.

I spent a day at porc yesterday setting up the rear shock on my bike. Good fun and time well spent.

Another thing that is odd with suspension forks... say you are riding along a trail at speed and encounter a small root spanning the path. On a rigid I would have hit the root straight on to kick the front wheel up and done 'a wee jump' - as we say in Scotland. I tried that with a my new suspension fork and of course bugger all happens as you get no lift since the fork just soaks it all up. Talk about fun removal! Mind you that's probably just me as well.

With suspension you can just do it with bigger roots. 🙂

Today was a lightbulb moment for me in regards to my air forks and my new frame.
After changing my frame and nearly all the components on my new build I've been struggling with getting to grips with the different geometry,slightly bigger frame and longer travel forks but now it's perfect,after reading this post ANC making some changes that some of you recommended and watching "great rock" how to do berms I've Sussed (pardon the pun) how to use my forks properly,I've been leaning back going around corners and loosing the front end but one I lean more forward and leg he forks do the work,I still have some more tweaking to do and I might even go on a skills course,I'm glad I had a reaction of this post today because I was really thinking of throwing in the towel And changing the bike again altogether.

Lock out the fork = and you're sorted! :))

All good....

I feel I could do with an extra 30mm on the stem though, being a lanky tall bloke I do feel a bit compressed on the frame. It seems that rigid frames by their nature force you to be a bit careful with the fork, whereas suspension forks are designed to be 'battered'? I think I am still of the mindset that I need to go gingerly with the fork and resist putting to much weight on it, which needs to change.

how wide is your bar? modern trends is for a shorter stem coupled with a wider bar. you get drawn further forward as your hands have to go further out.

As above, loads of variables, and a vague front end can be caused by all sorts of rising position and weight distribution factors. It took me years to get my bikes dialled in properly, it's a learning process.

And to get air, you need to push down on the fork ahead of the obstacle and use the bounce to get you over. Less efficient, it is far easier to get air on a rigid or short travel bike, but it's a small downside for all the other upsides.

Don't push down on the fork with your hands though.

Jumping is all in the legs.