[Closed] Friends of The Hurtwood.

[url= http://www.friendsofthehurtwood.co.uk/ ]Friends of Hurtwood[/url]

Everything you need to know is here.

I've been a member for a few years, for a few reasons:
1. They support mountain biking
2. In supporting biking they give it legitimacy amongst those who don't want us to ride there - even though the landowners are happy
3. They help to bring the different user groups together to deal with usage issues
4. They organise maintenance days which a) keep the trails in good nick and b) give us the opportunity to give something back

Well worth your £25 IMO. And their work is sorely needed now there's so many people riding up there

Thanks i shall be joining. Can you tell me if they have meetings where all can attend or do the mtbikers have a representative only who attends ?
I cannot believe that this is not more publicly advertised especially with the amount of mountain bikers using the area in the last few years.

thanks

Paul

Very little evidence of trail maintenance when I rode up there at the weekend. Thanks to the recent forestry work BKB (among other trails) is trashed and will probably be unrideable in the winter. As a result I feel no incentive to hand over money when I don't feel my interests are being represented.

Before it's raised, I have offered my services on dig days but have been told that there were insufficient experienced people to supervise.

Little wonder that people are building new trails really

Hurtwood could really use the support - they are short of money at the moment. It's a good thing to do anyway - for the maintenance of the whole area. It isn't the case though that mtb trail work is proportionate to the number of mtb members. The funds are used for everything.

Bear in mind that mtb trails are nothing without the context they are in - the conservation of the whole area is far more important than individual tracks.

I've been a friend for a couple of years now. Am not too sure what I get from my contribution - but the way I see it is that £25 is a small price to pay for the great mtbing in that area. If there were more mtb members then they would then have more funds for trail repairs etc.

I was a friend but havent renewed as i am appalled the way they have allowed the logging to be carried out.

they have trashed bridleways, caused huge damage in areas that they had closed trails in due to mtbs causing erosion!

maybe this is partly why they are short of support!

the logging has bene done mainly to fund the development of High house farm in Shere, I have no Idea where the friends money is used, But i do know they paid a local chap £350 to put a new trail out of use using heavy digging equipment, so they have the money for that!

OP Winterfold isn't part of the Hurtwood any way AFAIK

Correct, Jim McAllister owns most of Winterfold, so you can look to him when trails up there get trashed.

I've been a friend for a couple of years now. Am not too sure what I get from my contribution - but the way I see it is that £25 is a small price to pay for the great mtbing in that area. If there were more mtb members then they would then have more funds for trail repairs etc.

I'm a member but wont be renewing. I can't see anything positive they've done for Mtb'ing in the area at all?? New trails have been trashed (creating a lot of damage considering its a conservation area) and existing ones ruined by logging. It all seems to be managed a lot better at Swinley with Gorrick/Crown estate by comparison.

oh and the amount of logging on winterfold is thoroughly depressing.

Some of the trails have gotten so wide (e.g. BKB) that they could do with being closd for a bit.
As long as there is a decent attitude towards building/resurrecting trails after logging, then I'll remain a member.

T_I_M but i really dont want my money used to pay someone to destroy a trail that was really out of the way and not near anywhere walkers or horse riders use

We also rode that newly wreaked trail last night it's only the bottom section at the moment.
No doubt by the weekend it might well be gone.
I ride all over West Surrey and I have plenty of other flowing singletrack to ride away from the hordes.
Over the years these trails are getting shut down and ridden to death more will appear and I will find other bits to ride.

I was a member now I have the same views as the previous posters

which trail is it anyway? the switchback trail that has been cleared and blocked a few times?

Can anyone who has the knowledge explain about the damage to authorised trails and what's going on with it? Logging has at the very least severely altered the nature of the trails and if they're not already ruined, most will suffer really badly when the weather turns. I don't know if the Friends can even fix them but I've wondered for a while what sort of talks have gone on over the mess that's been made.

The woods don't exist solely for trails. Forestry work is a vital part of what happens there. The various organised groups do a great job of balancing the needs of all users.

but I've wondered for a while what sort of talks have gone on over the mess that's been made.

+1 I cant see the horse riders are too happy either, but as i'm no longer a friend i cant access the forum

CF yes i think people get that, its not the logging its the way its being done, I think they have just given the contract to a logging outfit that is just blitzing in, other areas locally have had logging done without so much destruction.

We are also seeing more deer locally as they are being forced out by a landowner that claims to be leaving the area for air and exercise for all

Unfortunately I can't see the landowners caring one iota about the damage logging causes to trails as they get no income from the trails.

As has been done in my local riding spot, the only way to preserve the trails in the long term is to form an official club and formally lease the land off the land-owners, which I seriously can't see happening.

I do believe something really needs to be done in this area, even if it involves the creation of a contained "bike-park", otherwise this will go on and on.

Ultimately, you need to give the land-owners an incentive to allow riders to use their land, otherwise why should they even care?

All those who say "but I don't want a bike park, I want to ride natural trails" are fooling themselves, as you can't have it both ways: You either get use to the trails being trashed on a yearly basis, or you create an area of "untouchable" land and put in a proper regime of sustainable trail building and trail maintenance, possibly under the stewardship of the CTC/Forestry Commission etc.

mikey - annual logging? How fast do trees grow in your local area.

Anyway, as has been said, the big thing here is not that they ARE logging but how the logging impacts the trails. Over on Winterfold they've trashed some trails which were unofficial during logging and nobody is surprised. The damage though is at about the same level to that done to some of the sanctioned trails elsewhere so it's clear that keeping riders to official trails isn't of interest.

mikey - annual logging? How fast do trees grow in your local area.

Different trails in different parts of the forest that are logged on a rotation.

Anyway, I didn't say it was always caused by logging.

Mikey they should care becaause they have set themselves up as more than just a landowner, they quote the ethos of the area being historically left to the public for air and excercise, and the area counts as access land for walking these days so they cant fence it off either

double post fail

Different trails in different parts of the forest that are logged on a rotation.

Please don't tell me it's the winterfold trail with the big initial berm and then a bombhole that's been trashed?

It does seem sad that the trails get broken up but it's their land so there it is.

Jools - it is, although its still passable, but not as flowing at the end. Top section was aok last time I saw it, albeit getting a bit worn through increased traffic.

I thought I might be opening a can of worms posting in opposition to the Friends, but I'm pleased to see I'm not alone!

It does seem sad that the trails get broken up but it's their land so there it is.

Exactly.

Mikey they should care becaause they have set themselves up as more than just a landowner, they quote the ethos of the area being historically left to the public for air and excercise, and the area counts as access land for walking these days so they cant fence it off either

But surely you can get the "air and exercise" on a bike by just using the bridleway system. You don't need berms, jumps, bombholes, drop-off etc for that.

The trouble is that the current situation does not allow for any kind of progression in the sport, which is why you find people building their own sneaky lines.

I don't get it.

That trail was well concealed at both ends has an ending that means you have to pretty much stop before hitting the bridleway and was nicely tucked away out of sight. It just seems a bit old gittish to destroy it as it really wasn't harmful.

The trouble is that the current situation does not allow for any kind of progression in the sport, which is why you find people building their own sneaky lines.

I don't get it.

It just seems a bit old gittish

You'd think he have the sense to build some trails, charge a fee and earn off it. I'd pay £50 a year to ride good trails over there.

You'd think he have the sense to build some trails, charge a fee and earn off it. I'd pay £50 a year to ride good trails over there.

One word: Insurance!!

If it was done properly and through the CTC, then insurance would be covered, as long as you paid the yearly fee. They could even put it on the same membership as Rogate, Tilgate and Aston Hill, so you only paid £70/year approx. and could ride all three.

shame, good trail that one. someoene will clear it though. Apparently it was built by the MBR boys so the rumour goes.

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Let's say 250 riders paying £50 a year each, money for old rope I'd say not a fortune but plenty considering you'd have to do literally nothing for the money.

Can anyone who has the knowledge explain about the damage to authorised trails and what's going on with it? Logging has at the very least severely altered the nature of the trails and if they're not already ruined, most will suffer really badly when the weather turns. I don't know if the Friends can even fix them but I've wondered for a while what sort of talks have gone on over the mess that's been made.

While I'm not in a position to speak about the machinations of the land owners and FOTH, there are differences in opinion about the use of mountain bike trails on Hurtwood land. Not from the landowners themselves or from FOTH personnel however.

BKB was always going to be a difficult trail to protect and the Forestry personnel did a reasonable job, an improvement over what happened to reservoir dogs last year. You will also note that no tree thinning happened close to the new ending of BKB, that's because it was Surreyhills AONB money that was used to build it and they wouldn't have been too happy if that part of the trail got damaged. So it got left alone.

We are also seeing more deer locally as they are being forced out by a landowner that claims to be leaving the area for air and exercise for all

On the contrary, once you start thinning out the forestry this gives more sunlight access to the forest floor and as a result more undergrowth will grow, resulting in an increase in the numbers of deer feeding on it. You are seeing more deer because of the increase of food.

It all seems to be managed a lot better at Swinley with Gorrick/Crown estate by comparison.

Swinley is partially paid for by having the lookout(Bracknell council)/go ape type stuff on crown land. Other money comes from the permit money that Mountain bikers should pay when they use the land, this covers insurance and Trail maintenance costs I'm led to believe.

Thats how i always thought it should be done! theres no evidence of replanting yet though

Replanting only happens a few years after the trees are cleared. Some of the areas that are now de-forested will stay that way.

oh and the amount of logging on winterfold is thoroughly depressing.

Only the top of Winterfold is looked after by FOTH. What the landowner does in his part of the woods is up to him.

Some of the trails have gotten so wide (e.g. BKB) that they could do with being closd for a bit.
As long as there is a decent attitude towards building/resurrecting trails after logging, then I'll remain a member.

There is a decent attitude from FOTH, now I know some will point out the recent closure of a trail on Holmbury hill, but FOTH has stated that no new trails are allowed to be built. The hills are for all users, not a free for all for mountain bikers.

With regards to whether you become/stop being a member, the money you pay will be used to fund the upkeep of the land for all users.

Definitely won't be getting my money.

I have debated it long and hard. I have spoken at length to representatives of the FOTH, fundraisers etc asking how they spent their annual budget, what their priorities are etc. and in conclusion I see no positives at all.

They take your money and spend it on making the trails 'safe', on trail and car park maintenance, and on managing the area e.g. removing the Rhododendrons.

So far as making trails 'safe' you can take that to mean boring.

The amount of trail maintenance they do is neglible to the point of being invisible.

Yet they are very good at ripping out the Rhododendrons, which unfortunateley I rather liked, as did the majority of people I know.

They also are proud of having returned the area surrounding the summit of Holmbury Hill to 'ancient heathland' by chopping down all the trees in that area a few years ago... it was a shameful, ecological disaster . And for what purpose? The area was much nicer with the trees and as for 'ancient heathland', well ancient as of when exactly? Take any area of the the UK, go far enough back in time and you'll find it was probably forested.

The FOTH is very good at destroying many of the trails that are fun/using diggers to put them beyond use.

OK, I understand that these are 'new' trails... but ALL the trails were 'new' at some point and were made by humans: walking, cycling or whatever.

I just don't get what the beef is with the Hurtwood and why they feel they need to 'control' the area so negatively. It's an area that the landowners themselves desired the public use for recreational activities.

What was clear from the discussions I had with representatives of FOTH was that the more money they raised the more of this they'd be able to do: more controls, more restrictions, more resources.

- Where would it end?

- Why do we need more control?

- Why should we pay FOTH to implement more restrictions?

Ask yourself this: If the FOTH went out of business due to lack of funds what would happen?

They will tell you that all the trails would shut and the car parks would be closed down.

Really?

I suggest things would continue as they do now. Do you think that all the walkers, runners, dog walkers, families, cyclists, horse riders, Duke of Edinburgh teenagers etc would stop using the area?

No.

Digger i must say i have to agree with your comments to a point. I believe the real problem with FOTH lies with the attitude of a minority of mountain bikers that are using the area.

I have seen it myself at Peaselake where some people get so excited and just simply cannot contain themselves that their language and behaviour on a Sunday morning must put some of the locals off taking a nice stroll to the shop with their children.

I have also heard from other riders that similar behaviour ie: A group coming haring off of Pitch and blasting through the car park with way too much speed and no regard for an elderly couple walking right in front of them.
One guy ran very close to the old lady and "Bunny hopped" right next to her !!
This sort of behaviour is really what i think the root of the problem is.
Have anyone ever been walking along and youve been buzzed by a cyclist at speed ? It's not good and certainly not for anyone elderly.

This sort of behaviour is certainly hard to challenge and does our sport no favors at all.

As far as trail building is concerned i cannot believe the amount of effort people will go to and believe me its very much appreciated by people like myself who dont have the time to contribute but still get the pleasure of riding them, all i can say is a very big thanks.
I have heard that if the trail builders were only to have approached the "Ranger" before building then the one particular trail in question would possibly have been agreed and ok to complete the build and hence would never have been de-commisioned.

I would be interested to attend a FOTH AGM along with other like minded individuals to have a more in depth understanding of their commitments and policies.

From what i understand there are approximately 50 mountainbike members and around 500 walking members at the moment. If another 500 mountainbikers joined the FOTH surely that would be enough money to fund another full time ranger and maybe progress things more towards the right direction ?

Paul

From what i understand there are approximately 50 mountainbike members and around 500 walking members at the moment. If another 500 mountainbikers joined the FOTH surely that would be enough money to fund another full time ranger and maybe progress things more towards the right direction ?

It doesn't work that way and it never will.

Can people pls look at a map and work out if a trashed trail is on the Hurtwood land before slagging off the Friends?

I am pretty sure the trail in the OP is on someone else's land.

Let's not get specific about the details though - just don't feel any shame or guilt in riding on his land he will ruin Sussex and Surrey given half a chance.

Also don't get hung up on forestry / logging/ erosion - the real issue is that Peaslake us completed overrun with bikers on weekends and significant numbers of residents are totally hacked off about it. I can't say I blame them.

Peaslake does have a lot of bikers - but then those bikers do put quite a bit of money into that village - I wonder if that little shop they all find so convenient would still be open without the passing trade of cyclists all year round?

On the current map of the Hurtwood (as per website) the said trail is on the Hurtwood. BUt I know they sold some land of around that area so not sure if it still is. The switchback trail is also under alot of trees at the moment.

It's a fair point. I'd guess that the store and pub (not to mention pedal and spoke) would struggle without the cyclists. I can see that having to slow down a little to get anywhere at a weekend might be a minor inconvenience but having driven through peaslake enough times, the people standing around probably add 30 seconds to a minute to get anywhere.

Winterfold - the OP is talking about winterfold which we know is not the hurtwood. The REST of us are asking about stuff like BKB being trashed.

A lot of people in Peaslake are city types who have moved to the country and are probably pissed off to find that their idea of the countryside did not involve people visiting the countryside to enjoy it, so are understandably annoyed.

Scott - we have a 'tourist attraction' in my village and the reality is that the annoyances far outweigh the economic benefit for most of the residents.

Just take a look at Peaslake bus shelter on a sunday morning and try to see it through someone else's non MTB eyes.

Would you want that big a collective mid life crisis on your doorstep most weeks:)

IMO Hurtwood are doing what they have to to keep the residents sweet and for the majority of residents more trails = more MTB = bad. I reconcile the 25 quid by thinking it pays the rangers wages and he seems pretty helpful to us.

I'm curious which trail this is now, it sounds like one on McAll1stirs land where he'd just left a nice surprise trashing on the steepest bit at the end but maybe not? Maybe someone could PM me?

Nick last time I looked at riding switchbacks it had been totally destroyed - more in a noone is ever riding this again than a logging way

This is my first post and I am rel new to mtb in Surrey Hills. I have been up about 5 times to Holmbury, Pitch and Winterfold. Found most of the obvious tracks from threads and you tube. I have been on my own mostly and have enjoyed exploring although this is an inefficient way to find trails. This week followed group by Windmill and came to a very scary drop off above the winterfold road - good job I was going slow enough to bottle it.

But my main question relates to appropriate behaviour for mtb and how I can avoid causing problems. I have picked up that there is a lot of tension in the area with mtb. I am worried that my casual wanderings may aggrevate people if I am on sensitive areas. But how do you know where and where not to ride eg, I hear that the drop off by the graveyard to the car park is causing aggravation etc. This week I was on winterfold and having great fun on orange clawback (I think?) and what i guess remains of the switchback (does this include the three little bombholes near the top?). I was then exploring on trails to the east of this and found a few great little trails that had been trashed near the bottom. How do I know if this was in an area where mtb was being discouraged (they dropped off onto the well used main forestry road)?

I guess there is a balance to having routes remaining not too obvious and hence overused and having newbies like me inadvertantly straying into sensitive areas without knowing it?

I had wondered what Peaslake residents made of it. I tend to go during week and have been amazed at how quiet it is. Always buy something in stores as a token gesture.

Sorry for the first post ramble, but I am keen to ensure that I behave in the correct manner.

I'm convinced that the single biggest and best thing all bikers can do to help keep the peace is be ever more courteous. Don't ride past walkers at anything other than walking pace (or take a moment and just stop) - don't ride past horses at all (let them ride past you). A lot of riders don't ever go for a walk - if they did they might realise that a bike buzzing past is a lot more intimidating than you might think.

The Peaslake jam is another pressure point, which would be helped enormously if everyone went round the corner and parked in the car park.

Out of interest does anyone know the name of the big drop off near the windmill. From car park, up wide track, then back towards Windmill. TR on track then TL in about 50m and drops are 50-100m ahead. This drop has a slight bend in it and is in the trees? Scary for a novice like me!!

Are the forest roads down from the big electronic gates out-of-bounds? I came up them looking for start of orange claw hammer?

glenp

[I'm convinced that the single biggest and best thing all bikers can do to help keep the peace is be ever more courteous. Don't ride past walkers at anything other than walking pace (or take a moment and just stop) - don't ride past horses at all (let them ride past you). A lot of riders don't ever go for a walk - if they did they might realise that a bike buzzing past is a lot more intimidating than you might think]

I completely agree glenp. It costs nothing to check your speed and be polite and courteous to other users of the area and a polite attitude like this goes a long way in most cases to how people view us.

i understand that with some local people it does not seem matter how polite you are. I have had personal experience with one group of walkers with them being very obnoxious and rude walking up trails that i have been riding down, almost trying to cause a confrontation no matter how polite you try and be. This has only ever happened once in the last 6 years so i guess that's not bad.

What i do not understand is if any of these trails like the one in question is not part of the Hurtwood? and i cannot confirm if this is the case but, Can anyone explain why if the trail in question is not on the Hurtwood side of things for example: If this area is owned by another land owner. Then Why if the landowner had - had enough of mountain bikers on his land, then why would he not just fence it off as private property and stop everyone using it ?

Appologies for long winded post but i am just trying to get a better understanding of how the area works.

Thanks

Paul

"Then Why if the landowner had - had enough of mountain bikers on his land, then why would he not just fence it off as private property and stop everyone using it ?"

I suspect you haven't ridden from the bombholes onto the switchback trail recently. Fences cost money, especially on the size and scale required to keep us out - people dont acquire the kind of money required to buy large parts of rock star Surrey without being careful about money.

TeamHurtmore - you have probably found 2 headed dog, although there is quite a good surprise drop off on the end of a new trail sort of around there.

It's worth having a look at a map and working out where the boundaries are, just so you know when you can stand your ground when challenged and when you need to be discrete.

The line is at the end of the section of trail with the 3 bombholes in.

The trail in question that troutie mentioned is Evian (I believe it's called)
I cleared some brush off it yesterday so that a route is passable down to the bridleway. I am sure that the logging is going to continue for some time yet on the side of the hill.

[i]Out of interest does anyone know the name of the big drop off near the windmill. From car park, up wide track, then back towards Windmill. TR on track then TL in about 50m and drops are 50-100m ahead. This drop has a slight bend in it and is in the trees? Scary for a novice like me!![/i]

If it's the very steep one with the slight right-hander half way down with the compression at the bottom, it's called "Johnson & Johnson" - not as difficult as it looks. Could be 2 Headed Dog but there's no bend in 2 Headed Dog though.

J&J definitely sounds like it - definite slight R hander half way down. All the guys in the group I was following went straight down except the last one who stopped to have a look first!!

A few easier drops to the LHS into similar compressions but now nearly as scary to look at.

The Winterfold side seems to have longer, faster runs than Pitch which seem to have more roots and technical sections. Nice contast between the two.

I might try a day of guiding to learn the area better.

Personally I am a "Friend" and I'm happy to stay as such. For me it's not about having new trails built for us, it's about the fight to keep access.

If you want expensive trail building then go to a trail centre, or semi-trail centre like Swinley and put up with the likes of BoB lording it over the place 😉

The way I see it is there is a lot of vocal and possibly high profile pressure against MTB in the Hurtwood at the moment and one of the reasons for this is few of us join the FOTH or attend the meetings. The result is we are branded "drunken swearing hooligans" and the pressure could be on to rid the hills of bikes...

http://www.surreyhillsmtber.co.uk/239/surrey-advertiser-article/

With less representation from the MTB folk and less money to support us, even if it's just to allow us access, the risk is we get kicked off.

As for trail building and maintenance, whilst building new trails without permission is no go*, the invite is open to get involved with official building by contacting mtb@hurtwoodcontrol.co.uk. I'd say go get involved instead of moaning.

* - be fair, would you like some kids to come and dig up your garden to build some jumps without your permission?

I agree deadkenny you cant change things like this from the outside.

Get on the inside, the ramblers and horse-riders understand this and are well in there. Even if its just a 50p a week donation to keep the Ranger working.

The Hurtwood is private land (admittedly with a charter to support public use). Logging is the primary income for the land. Without the logging it would't be viable to manage the estate and it would have to be sold. So while I hate finding trails messed up by logging it's a necessary evil.
It's always possible to find reasons for not supporting something and I don't always like everything the Hurtwood does, but looking at the £1000s worth of bikes at Peaslake every day it's hard to see a reason not to contribute £25 a year for some of the best riding in SE England. The more of us who engage with the Hurtwood the more our voices will be heard.

I agree deadkenny you cant change things like this from the outside.

Get on the inside, the ramblers and horse-riders understand this and are well in there. Even if its just a 50p a week donation to keep the Ranger working.

Maybe some donation boxes at the common meeting / stopping points for MTB riders??

Genuine, honest question/comment here...

If by not being a Friend of Hurtwood, I carry on riding the cheeky trails, nothing changes for me really. The threat of banning bikes from the Hills would be unworkable so it would continue ban or no ban.
If then by joining the Friends of Hurtwood, I'm on the 'inside' but pressure from larger groups (walkers, locals for example) forces the MTB'ers to make concessions to their riding areas, I seem to lose out. I can't see mountain bikers getting the go-ahead to ride everywhere they do already.
Why then would I join and give money for a cause that's probably a non-starter?
Only my opinion but it's extremely unlikely there's ever going to be as many MTB'ers in FOH than walkers and local residents. We'd therefore be a minority view and get voted down and pressured into making concessions. These concessions would then be unworkable largely because most MTB'ers wont be members, won't know the concessions and wont change their behaviour anyhow.
Am I missing something here?...and hope that makes sense!

dorkingtrailpixie

there's no arguing with your pov - but it makes you a bit of a freeloader IMO - that sounds pejorative but I respect it as a rational choice.

you can apply the same argument to parish councils, school governors, etc etc

there are loads of things that get done only because people give some time or a bit of dosh voluntarily

I dont have a problem with people being too busy at work or having families or just not wanting to do committees to get involved. But I think when you do that you give up the right to have anyone listen when you have a moan. Except on here.

And in this case you can just bung them £25 and have no more involvement then that and then have a moan. It's not even one decent tyre.

On the other hand if every MTBer who rode Hurtwood joined we would form a substantial body who would have to be listened to, but I dont see that happening. It's just not that kind of sport.

I am a member, no problem paying 25 quid a year for the carparking etc, clearing up flytiping etc.

I am also a dog walker, nature lover so look at it in a more general way.

Trails come and go over the years - we have more than ever before so I am not complaining....

Just been and cleared the MBR trail. so its good to go all the way 😀

Nick - Im still not clear which one we were discussing - can you PM me?

winterfold , send me an email as can't see yours??

Fair enough Winterfold, get the idea. I think your last comment about MTB'ing just not being that type of sport rings true. I'll mull the membership thing over a bit, part of me thinks that some committees cause more problems than they fix. I've first hand experience of Parish Councils and the in-fighting and politically driven goals of some members (political with a small 'P' there). Can't accuse FOH of that as I have no first hand knowledge.

freeridernick - I too am a dog walker and nature lover. I tend to pick up rubbish on dog walks. Doesn't matter how much money I pay to a membership scheme, nobody is going to walk around Redlands picking up the beer cans/fag packets. That's not a poke at you by the way, just saying I do my bit but in a quiet 'just get on with it' kind of way. Don't expect everyone to go around picking up litter but I'm quite happy to do it on my own patch.

dorkingtrailpixie.
Just imagine if the Hurtwood did end up getting sold and someone like the Wotton estate got it...
It would end up with barbed wire fences and pheasants shoots all over it 😈

Since Friends of Hurtwood is a charity, and the committee is, at least in part, electable - then the best way for riders to protect and enhance their right to ride is to get together, join, put forward some candidates, attend the AGM and vote them onto the committee.

simples!

The ranger's blog gives a bit of an insight into the work done by the Hurtwood. It says that assurances were given that BKB wouldn't be wrecked during logging, so if there is damage it's because contractors didn't do what they were told. [url= http://www.friendsofthehurtwood.co.uk/rangers-blog.html ]http://www.friendsofthehurtwood.co.uk/rangers-blog.html[/url]

As for trail maintenance, we can't expect it all to be done for us. The income Hurtwood gets is not enough to maintain all the trails, which are only a small part of the activity in Hurtwood. Here's the site for trail volunteers, which also contains useful updates on what's going on with the trails. [url= http://hurtwoodtrails.wordpress.com/ ]http://hurtwoodtrails.wordpress.com/[/url]. Similarly, at Swinley most, if not all, of the trail maintenance is done by volunteers recruited by Berks on Bikes & Gorrick. As with most things in life, getting actively involved is more productive than passive complaint. As Zulu-Eleven says, getting involved with the charity trustees could be productive as could getting involved in trail maintenance.

[i]Just imagine if the Hurtwood did end up getting sold and someone like the Wotton estate got it...
It would end up with barbed wire fences and pheasants shoots all over it [/i]

Not sure here but isn't it in trust (Hurtwood that is) and therefore the covenants attached would be passed onto any possible new owner?

As for trail maintenance, apart from the sanctioned trails, local riders by and large tend to look after the maintenance themselves. Think I prefer it that way. Over the years, many of the sanctioned trails have become 'bland' in my view only. Not sure I want sanctioned trail builders/maintenance work done on many of the trails covering our hills. Just my POV.

As I read this, I am drawn to the conclusion that riders should join the FOTH and try to engage as much as possible. This is a beautiful area but one that is rapidly facing the pressure of managing its sustainable development - a future GCSE geog case study perhaps?

I think that riders are likely to be PERCEIVED as the most anti-social of the main user groups and hence it is our responsibility to combat this perception, not the other way round. Engagement and refraining from internet or actual abuse/criticism would be a start.

I still feel uneasy about the fact that it is difficult to make sure that we are cycling in the correct areas. I emailed FOTH for their advice and specific questions re the Winterfold side of things (is this McAllister's land?). They referred me to the map - which helps but still leaves a lot of questions unaswered eg, switchback (to the extent that it still exists?) seems to start on Hurtwood and finish on the boundary, orange clawhammer definitely seems to straddle both and the routes I found north of carparks 12 and 13 seem to be on Hurtwood but the bottoms of the trails had been trashed and covered in logs and debris. All too confusing????

The thing that worries me is crashing into a walker. The singletracks are narrow and often hidden, so it would be easy to come across another user out-of-the blue.

I even came across a runner of Barry Knows Better the other day - he was running down the berms and oblivious to anyone coming up behind

teamhurtmore - on W1nterf0ld ride all trails that are there and do not give a shit about the sensitivities of other possible owners - he is deficient in his general kharma and upsetting him by riding trails on his land rebalances the well-being of the universe.

Having enjoyed the trails dont talk about it online much. (freerideNick will laugh at me for being paranoid but careless talk costs trails)

If challenged look innocent and doe-eyed and say something like 'Am I not on Hurtwood land then?' and politely ask to be directed to the nearest right of way.

(Xmas Pud/Flicking the Vs/Ewok village - this is all sanctioned/legit/dandy)

teamhurtmore - on W1nterf0ld ride all trails that are there and do not give a shit about the sensitivities of other possible owners - he is deficient in his general kharma and upsetting him by riding trails on his land rebalances the well-being of the universe.

You obviously know this area better than me, but I can't see how this helps.

Having enjoyed the trails dont talk about it online much. (freerideNick will laugh at me for being paranoid but careless talk costs trails)

This is part of my problem with mtb-ing in the area. There seems to be this prevailing attitude that keeping things quiet is the best solution. But surely, this is only up to a point. OK, I accept that this may reduce risk of trail over-use but equally it increases the chances that people will cycle in the wrong areas due to ignorance. If there was some guidance on where/where not to ride that would be great.

If challenged look innocent and doe-eyed and say something like 'Am I not on Hurtwood land then?' and politely ask to be directed to the nearest right of way.

My current strategy !!!

(Xmas Pud/Flicking the Vs/Ewok village - this is all sanctioned/legit/dandy)

The stupid question - how do I find these? Is Xmas pud the same as orange clawhammer - 3/4 sections - top bit, second bit with small jump between V-shaped tree, third section after the X-track thru the dark bit and finally, the option to go down the stony track after the cottages (or loop back to the road here)??

 

BKB is a runner's, walkers and bike trail. Nothing up there is bike-only.
Which means, as mentioned above, we do need to ride with the awareness that kids, dogs, OAPs etc could, legitimately, be round the corner.
Yes it means less flow and gnarr etc, but personally I don't want my Sunday ride experience to be one of putting a kid in hospital with concussion...

Out of interest does anyone know the name of the big drop off near the windmill. From car park, up wide track, then back towards Windmill. TR on track then TL in about 50m and drops are 50-100m ahead. This drop has a slight bend in it and is in the trees? Scary for a novice like me!!

You're not talking about Sleepy Hollow are you? More of a roll than a drop-off. But it's in the trees and over very quickly. I think there's another immed to the right IIRC. Or are you referring to what used to be 3-4 steep roll-ins/drops that take you down to the road oppo car park (with the pub on the right)?

xmas pad/clawhammer are the same trail.

Since Friends of Hurtwood is a charity, and the committee is, at least in part, electable - then the best way for riders to protect and enhance their right to ride is to get together, join, put forward some candidates, attend the AGM and vote them onto the committee.

While I lack the time/effort to attend meetings, I would show up to an AGM to make the above happen. Pretty sure that I could persuade others to do the same.

Space monkey - from the previous description I am sure its J&J - steep drop with slight RH half way down. I have yet to find sleepy hollow and only seen this on YTube. To the left of J&J there are two obvious lines but I am not sure they are sleepy hollow either. They both go down towards the winterfold road.

Is the track you refer to on the Pitch Hill side? The guys I followed just up to J&J (!!) had started by going up the Pitch Hill track as I was getting ready and then re-emerged coming back up from the pub quickly after before heading off to J&J. They obviously knew what they were doing. I saw this on Ytube and looks steep?

When I said "back to the windmill" I was referring to turning back after the initial little climb on the other side of the road from the car park. Not the pub.

I haven’t in the past got involved in any of the Hurtwood threads on here, simply because I don’t have the time. However I think there are a couple of inaccuracies on here that need redressing, and that some of the earlier comments on this thread, show a level of ignorance and selfishness beyond all belief.
I’m not sure where the trail that the OP talking about is, but if there’s currently logging work going on around it, then it’s not on land managed by us.
Firstly The Hurtwood is a commercial forest and it’s managed for its timber resource, that’s how the landowners make their money. There is no financial benefit in allowing public access to the land whatsoever, quite the opposite. It currently cost between £70- £80k per annum, these costs are covered by donations from the users of The Hurtwood, the landowners, and up till now, local authorities. Sadly only a handful of MTBers feel the benefits they enjoy, are worth donating towards.
The Rhododendrons are being cut by the landowners, as part of widely recognized sound forestry practice, and nothing to do with FotH.
It’s sad to read that some of you feel the recent logging work, especially around BKB, was done with little regard for the trail. I went to great lengths to get the loggers to work around the trail as much as they could and cause as little damage as possible, considering it’s still totally rideable I was quite pleased, I’m starting to wish I hadn’t wasted my time. It’s a shame as the extra work involved, not just in my time, but has also cost the estate a lot of money.
For those of you that feel you don’t want to pay a few pounds each month to ride here, fine, I’m not going to try to persuade you otherwise, though I take it you’ll not be coming back again to ride any of the existing miles of trails that have been left untouched, for you to use, or making use of any of the car parks. The irony is that we’re losing our core donors because of the number of MTBers and their general aggressive attitude, perceived or real. So you guys don’t want to donate because we asked you not to build any more trails, you did, we bulldozed it, you all had a hissy fit. The current donors don’t want to donate because they think we let you guys ride all over the place screaming and shouting and generally being abusive to others, etc etc. Does the phrase “Damned if we do, damned if we don’t”, spring to mind?
The bottom line is, unless there’s an increase in our income, The Hurtwood will close, and probably before 2015. Horse riders and MTB’s will only be allowed on the statutory Bridleways. As the responsibility for insuring the area will fall to the land owners, they will want to reduce their liability to as little as possible. Consequently all the carparks will be shut, any parking areas on verges will be ditched and all the bike trails will be bulldozed. I’d be out of a job, that means the hundreds of school children, that I take out will obviously stop, the talks I give in schools about the countryside will stop etc etc. Arguably though on the plus side, you’d then have a blank canvas to do whatever you liked, albeit illegally. Shame for everyone else though.

Any one who knows me will know I generally fight your corner, always giving you the benefit of the doubt, always going a little bit further than I need, to protect your interests. When all the locals are giving me earache about what the MTBers have done, how rude you all are, (this is my stock reply) “I’m sorry you had a bad experience, like all sectors of society, there’s always a few rogues. Please don’t be put off by them, and please continue to enjoy the area”.
Unfortunately, and probably in part due to the current sheer number of bikers, I find myself having to say this too often these days.
All the FotH are asking, is you show some respect for other users, ride at a speed that you’re not going to frighten old ladies or run over a little kiddie, stop building new trails and start contributing to the costs of the up-keep. Thanks 🙂

If thats not a reason to join, then don't know what is!
thank you for posting Mr Ranger.

...show a level of ignorance and selfishness beyond all belief.

I have to agree, sadly

I’m starting to wish I hadn’t wasted my time. It’s a shame as the extra work involved, not just in my time, but has also cost the estate a lot of money.

That's a pity and reminds people to think before they criticise. I did try and ride Barrys a few weeks ago and the logging made it impassable, but that was only temporary. So I (for one) appreciate your efforts

For those of you that feel you don’t want to pay a few pounds each month to ride here, fine, I’m not going to try to persuade you otherwise, though I take it you’ll not be coming back again to ride any of the existing miles of trails that have been left untouched, for you to use, or making use of any of the car parks.

Fair point as is the conclusion:

All the FotH are asking, is you show some respect for other users, ride at a speed that you’re not going to frighten old ladies or run over a little kiddie, stop building new trails and start contributing to the costs of the up-keep.

thank you for posting Mr Ranger.+1

Personally I thought the damage to BKB was minimal and the crews did a remarkably good job (as they did on the NT land around Summer Lightning). I've seen areas where the trails weren't protected and you can't even trace the route on the ground let alone ride.

Thanks - and keep up the good work.

I hadn't joined in the past as it somehow didn't seem right to be a "friend" of somewhere I don't really live anywhere near. I've joined up now as £25 is piss all in the grand scheme of things, even if I do only ride there a handful of times a year.