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Is it the swinger dropout frame?
Yep.
I've contacted Charlie to see what he says but he's out of the country for a while. Also, Argos didn't answer their phone all day so I'm having to cool my heels a bit 🙂
If you were nearer I would have happily helped out for a box of beer
Appreciated. Since you seem to know what you are talking about, how feasible and/or beneficial is the plate type arrangement in the picture on the previous page?
1x mate.
Yeah, well that's another few hundred quid that I am even further from having now I have to get the frame fixed. I don't run really old 3x9 as a fashion statement!
If I was on a budget
Yeah I need it done right if I'm going to do it. £120 from Argos I can swallow, just about. I'll attempt most things but not this job.
Chainstay plate / yoke is generally to give more clearance for tyre and chainring rather than to shrug off chain suck as such (but I guess it will survive better than a thin tube). There aren't many ready-made plates on the market - I've not seen any at Ceeway / Paragon / Frame supply, so tends to be a Taiwan factory thing or builders have their own made (laser cut, CNC etc). They also make the job generally more of a faff and another thing to align and mitre so will be more expensive if you can find someone willing to do one as a repair.
I tried hand making my own plate yoke last year but it was a bit "soft" so I junked it - stumbled on this last week which was a much nicer production version of my failed hand cut attempt
. Plates need to be a decent steel so it flexes and springs back - mild steel in those dimensions just flexes and yields....
I've spent 18 years singlespeed or 1x so actually forgot that chainsuck was a thing! If there is space, could just silver solder a sacrificial 1mm stainless plate on top of a new chainstay so you aren't putting fatigue initiating gouges in the main tube (fatigue is my day job and that is how that tube failed).
See how you get on with Charlie and Argos. I guess you are looking at rattle-can rather than an additional £160 for Argos paint. Other option is £30-£40 would get it powder coated but appreciate you might want to keep as much Salsa paint and stickers as possible.
PM me if you are struggling - I think you helped with the Gnusmas stuff so would be nice if the forum could return a favour. I've not got any stays at the moment but probably need to order a few other bits from Ceeway anyway.
fatigue initiating gouges in the main tube (fatigue is my day job and that is how that tube failed).
So, no point in putting in a warranty claim then?
If you get really stuck and on a budget I’m not far from you (Pontypool) and can tig weld. I’m not a builder to Mick.r’s standard though; I would clean the area up, tube inside and plug weld then weld up the crack and build the gouged area back up with weld, sand back and leave you to paint.
Being honest if I were you I’d go to Argos for a proper job if the frame means that much to you.
Thanks mate.
2 frames under warranty? I'd be saying seeyah and looking at a diff manufacturer.
Why does there need to be an associated cost for 1X other than £13 for a chainring? I've only dropped a chain once in several thousand miles on my HT with nothing other than a narrow wide fitted.
molgrips , what size frame? I have a 2012 Frame and forks sat doing nothing.
Tbh i was thinking looks like that 🙂
If it’s in warranty I’d see what they can do, could even be a batch they’ve had issues with.
Find a motorsports shop or small machinest locally who can TIG, get em to plug n' weld it up. Job done. Sure it'll be a few grams heavier but hey so what!
Why does there need to be an associated cost for 1X other than £13 for a chainring?
Cos 1x9 isn't enough range.
molgrips , what size frame? I have a 2012 Frame and forks sat doing nothing.
What frame? An El Mar? Mine was large but I could go medium.
What frame? An El Mar? Mine was large but I could go medium.
Yes an El Mariachi in medium .
How old? How much? Tempting but like I say I don't think I could bring myself to bin the current one.
You wouldn't bin it, just gives time for a more leisurely repair 🙂
If I loved a frame as much as you love that one Molgrips, I'd be repairing it. Shirley a decent framebuilder could take off the chainstay without damaging the BB shell/rear dropout & even braze a new one in?
My old HT has had this done without any issues. (although It's all fillet brazed, not welded)
That's the plan EG, Argos cycles said they could. Current plan is to have them replace the stay and strip the frame, and paint it myself using spray.bike.
Only thing I am now worried about is what colour to go for. I could try and re-create the same colour, and they have sparkles to apply on top - or I could try something new.
I rather like the stone colour of the Big Brother linked to earlier in the thread. Would look great with my raw carbon fork.
Update
Finally took the frame into Argos a couple of weeks ago, it's now ready! Gonna try and pick it up today.
Given the horror stories of El Mars cracking at the crimps I had both stays done. They were confident there'd still be the same.tyre clearance, let's see.
I think the original paint is a candy colour? Or whatever the non american version of that is. My "golden child" el mariachi was IIRC orange paint with a brown clearcoat and golden flecks. You could probably match the colour so it looks the same from a distance but to get the same finish is a bit more involved, if youve not already stripped it then a car spraying shop might be able to match the process if they can see what was there before?
Finally took the frame into Argos a couple of weeks ago, it’s now ready! Gonna try and pick it up today.
Keen to see photos!
Fingers crossed it's just what you wanted! Any plans for chainsuck protection? If I'd seen this first time round, I'd have suggested getting bosses put in for a plate like Dekerf do/did:
Didn't know you could get ones like Steve T's at the top, though.
enjoy it.
where do I get an chainstay/suck plate from?
where do I get an chainstay/suck plate from?
Make one! #mantask
I think the original paint is a candy colour?
Re paint, it was a sort of cherry red, I had assumed with metallic flakes like a car. But on closer inspection, it's not - the base coat is sort of crinkly. I showed it to Argos, and they pointed me to their rack of sample colours, and they do basically the exact same finish in the same colour. It's a process of many steps, and is another £200 or so.
However, some say Argos painted finishes aren't durable, and if it was the same as the original finish that would make sense because it wasn't that durable. See the other 'Is this a crack?' thread I started. The paint had rubbed through slightly on the cable boss and started corrosion tracks under the paint.
Since I want the frame to last I am going to powder coat it. First I'll try spray.bike and if that turns out shite I'll get it powder coated later. I've gone for dark red + lacquer which won't be anywhere near as nice as the original but it'll do.
Any plans for chainsuck protection?
I thought about soldering a plate over the outside of the tube, then I wondered how hard it would be to remove it if it was damaged - and where do I get stainless sheet from? I have some thin alu sheet so I think I will cut a little piece of that like a frame protection sticker and use some number plate fixing tape to stick it on. If it gets mashed I'll remove and repeat.
Can you make it out of tough plastic? The kind of stuff a bash guard is made of?
I should image that tough plastic would work fine.
Yeah it would - harder to shape though, would need heat.
Taxi25's link is another option. I think at one point in the past I had one though - if you set it close enough to actually keep the chain out it rubbed - wasn't ideal.
Got it back. May have lost a the size in clearance and will probably have to run the dropouts at their furthest back, but it looks like it's definitely not going to break again! Lovely job!
Yeah about 4mm gone from each side on the maximum extended dropout position; more when the dropouts are further in. There's still about 7mm gap with a 2.3" Racing Ralph on my 25mm rims which isn't too bad. 2.4s would be a squeeze tho.
First I’ll try spray.bike and if that turns out shite I’ll get it powder coated later.
I would seriously consider not trying it in the first place. Super easy to apply and gives nice coverage but had next to no resistance to chips etc, even lacquered.
So what's the alternative? For £30? Already spent £240 I didn't have.
Frame is shotblasted, I've got primer, paint and lacquer. If it's ever going to work it'll be now.
Maybe go straight to powder coat. Give these people a ring their only a few miles from you.
https://www.castlecoatingswales.co.uk/
I had a kids balance bike powder coated recently and it was £65 including stripping. I’d have spent quite a bit of time stripping it myself manually - and paint / laquer would probably have cost £30 in spray cans. Thought I’d just go for the powdercoating and really glad I did - looks great!
The benefit of doing it yourself is you have left over paint so you can touch it up when ever you want.
There have been some great examples on here of painting your own bike.
Pics coming soon.
Fixed chainstay area:
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They've made a tiny indent in the stay where the tyre goes but they are still chunky. You can see the difference here:
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Workmanship is excellent, and customer service was good. I only wish they'd explicitly said something like 'if we crimp it any more it'll be too weak' because now I"m wondering if they've erred too much on the side of caution and reduced clearance.
What size tyre do you normally run?
Looks like great work. How about getting it stripped and cleaned completely, some stickers made up in the red you like (original colour) and then clearcoat it to show off the lovely metal ness.
One of the best looks I had on all the frames I've owned was a simple raw on one 456. Just loved the way it looked. Rode quite nice too.
At least if nothing else it will allow you to keep an eye out for any more damage whilst you decide on a final colour if you don't like it clear.
2.35s. They used to fit with the sliding dropouts in any position, now it's really only the rear most position. And even then there's less clearance for mud. Just a bit of a shame really, cos that was a cool feature, but maybe it was overly optimistic for Salsa to build it that way in the first place. It still rides ok with the dropouts at the back but I preferred them in the middle.
I think I will ride it for a year or so and see if I still care and maybe get a second opinion.
Did it snap on the section where they had bent it for tyre clearance? If so, perhaps its better they didn't do it?
I had a salsa horsethief (non split pivot) the one where the stays flexed. They snapped in almost the same place.
Sometimes simpler is better.
I like the idea of a raw finish over some stickers
Did it snap on the section where they had bent it for tyre clearance? If so, perhaps its better they didn’t do it?
In my case, it snapped because I'd heavily gouged the chainstay after chainsuck caused the chain to get badly jammed, which in turn was because I had the BB spacer on the wrong side. This is what irritates me - would it have been strong enough as it was without my poor bike assembly skills?
Those chainstays were weak anyway - lots of stories of them cracking on the internet - but on the other hand, I'm not hardcore MTBing on that bike and I'm pretty light on kit so I might've got away with it. Could Argos have crimped them a bit more than they did, but not as much as Salsa? The Argos stays looked like they were thicker tubing than the original ones - would this have been enough? Who knows.
And yes, the raw shot blasted finish looks amazing but sadly there's no way of ensuring it stays that way!
What spacers have you got fitted to the BB now?
I’ve just managed to buy a new 2016 El Mariachi frame, I must have a look at how thin they are?
Repair looks good Molgrips. I gave up doing a proper repair on mine and just bought a Stanton Sherpa. I've built it up now with exactly the same kit and it is good but quite different in good and bad ways. Tyre clearance is outstanding though.