I've often see on here people talking about how 20mm bolt-thru forks steer/track stiffer and whatnot. The only 20mm fork I've ridden was some 36 Vans on hire bikes in morzine. I can't honestly remember noticing any difference in tracking or anything, just that the massive braking bumps of late june were noticably smoothed out over (QR) revelations
I went for a short ride this evening taking in plenty of steep and chunky steps with lots of flat bits in them on my hardtail since my shock for my suspension hike (with the QR revelations up front) is still not back from being serviced
With some 2004ish (not sure) marzocchi MX pro 120mms it was horrendous!
On the same stuff with the revs I only ever remember having to deal with the bumpiness and concentrating on keeping my braking and weight in the right place (moving around behind and above the seat)
On the HT with the marzocchis (30mm stantions, not 32mm) it seemed to be all over the place, not controlled at all in stroke or where the wheel was going
I know the revs were sold as being the stiffest tracking (and lightest) fork at the time (2007) but I didn't think I'd ever notice a difference
Could I just be imagining it was down to much marketing/magazine hyped steering precision/tracking or was I just being a bit rubbish?
For anyone with 20mm forks (pikes seem to get raved on here), what forks are you comparing to (and what model year?) when you say they are noticably better for steering precision/tracking/whatnot?
Coming from 130mm travel 2001 Marzocchi Z1 drop offs (32mmm I think) with a QR I went to a pair of Pikes with 20mm thru.
Very noticeable difference in steering. Travel was about the same, although the marzocchis were more plush (coil compared with air Pikes).
The biggest difference I find is the ability to hold a line while cornering on rough terrain. With a QR the front wheel wanders and is more likely to lose traction, the 20mm thru sits exactly where you point it.
Am now riding with 36's. I dont really notice much difference over the pikes in stiffness. Having a 20mm thru makes a much bigger difference than the diameter of the stancions.
Comparing a 2004 Fox Talas with a Vanilla QR15, i've definitely noticed a big difference through ruts and over roots. I was expecting a smallish improvement, but nothing like as much as it actually made.
Went from a 2004 Cannondale Lefty Max to 2008 Fox Float 32's and noticed a huge difference. I've still not got used to the flex on the Fox's after nearly a year of riding on them. Certainly on tight twisty stuff the front end just seems to wander about
QR 2009 Revs verses 2008 20mm Pikes there is a very noticeable difference.
I actually wanted the 20mm axle because I was scared of the skewer coming out of the dropouts under heavy braking but I was amazed at how much difference to stiffness it made.
Q/r Marz Z1 Drop Offs v 20mm Manitou Minute Elite Abslutes. The Bombers were super plush but like retro 83 I wanted a bit more security and didn't think at my light weight that I'd notice any more stiffness, but was really surprised at the difference. No brake rub when cornering and tracking feels so much more positive . . . hey, I saved weight too 😀
Its the laws of physics, innit.
Personally going from some 06 revelations to some 06 or 07? Marxocchi Z1s iI noticed a huge difference, but the Z1s are a whole different type of fork.
A mate switched from some Pace RC41s to Fox 36s and he honestly said that he seemed to be cornering too soon with the 36s as it appears experienced a delay with the RC41s - ie when he turned the bars the forks didn't seem to follow staight away.
Huge difference between 9mm QR floats and 15QR Vanillas but the float is a flexi fork and it could just be moving to Vanillas as much as 15QR...
very noticable on off-camber sects or rooted corners. fork binds less.
20 or 15mm makes littel difference, but both a major step up from 9mm. it's all about the cornering stiffness.
I went from SIDs to a set of Rebas. I was most impressed. The Rebas allowed me to take much more direct lines, especially at speed.
Then I started riding a triple clamped, huge stanchioned, 25mm bolt through axle fork. Wow. Just plain wow. So, to answer your question, there's a LOT of difference!
Then I started riding a triple clamped, huge stanchioned, 25mm bolt through axle fork. Wow. Just plain wow. So, to answer your question, there's a LOT of difference!
Nice! What fork is that then with a 25mm axle?!
Specialized e150 (on the Enduro) I think.
Yep, I've got the e150SL version. Mighty nice it is as well, and way lighter than you might think.
2009 Reba with 20mm axle is noticeably stiffer than my 2007 QR Revelation - and they're roughly same weight too.
Much less likely to deflect when riding (for example) over logs, roots or rocks at a bit of an angle.
A Fox 36 such as the Vanilla you tried will be much stiffer still, but that's down to the massive legs as well as the axle.
i suspect that it's more down to wheel/tyre stiffness rather than fork stiffness
I agree that tyres are the 'front line' with stiffness. I've got floats 15QR and previously had talas standard QR. Can't feel much difference but probably because the TALAS were plenty stiff enough for my riding.
A big plus in my book is the reassurance of a bolt through system on front wheel rather than a drop out.
I've just upgraded from fox RL32 2008 (standard QR) to the Fox 2009 RL32 QR15... I've noticed a huge difference in performance... the QR15 bolt through is great improvement!!
Wild guess, but are those who think there's not much difference physically on the lighter side?
Being over the average weight for a MTBer, a 20mm Maxle made a pretty noticeable difference to me...
🙂
I'm 150kg butt naked LOL .. .as I said the difference is very noticable 🙂
Wild guess, but are those who think there's not much difference physically on the lighter side?
Or just riding slower or riding gentler trails? I only say this because it does only notice when I'm clattering down something particularly fast and rocky and I'm only 72kg!
Or just riding slower or riding gentler trails? I only say this because it does only notice when I'm clattering down something particularly fast and rocky and I'm only 72kg!
Yes, that as well, good point.
🙂
Hijack wanring, Pete, cheesy ride was lovely last night, you going to be over this way at any point over the summer?
Gary, we're coming over for Bikefest so i'll hopefully see some of you guys there.
Stuck back on my old job in Farnborough now. Beggars can't be choosers!
🙂
It's the fork as much as the axle I reckon. Pikes are darn stiff even with the Maxle out, but when I take the wheel out of my 66s I can flex the legs noticeably with my hands. Not exactly a "real world" test admittedly.
Yeah, but you have MASSIVE arms though. I bet you can flex anything with those....!
😉
You;ve been checking out my arms?! I feel used. 😉
Ooops.. getting my lbs and kilos mixed up .. I'm actually 68 kilo's LOL 😳
Yeah Baby!
😯
Cool Pete, come see us then - I'm doing 12 Solo so I won't be about until the evening, unless it's all gone wrong of course.
GaryLake - Member
Huge difference between 9mm QR floats and 15QR Vanillas but the float is a flexi fork and it could just be moving to Vanillas as much as 15QR...
Gary please explain? Vanillas and Floats are pretty much the same fork (assuming comparing QR with QR), just the springing medium is different, so how would this affect flex?
Having never ridden a QR Vanilla I don't actually know personally but I know WMB have happily panned the Flat for Flex yet given the Vanilla fork of the year before so I'd always assumed the coil chassis was stiffer anyway.
As I said, I'm not 100% sure if the increase in stiffness I've noticed is down to 15QR alone or a combination of it and the Vanilla chassis.
Gary, i could be completely wrong here, but the chassis and upper legs are identical and in theory the internals can be swapped over between floats and vanillas.
I certainly cant see how just the guts of the fork could make a difference to its stiffness.
The lower legs on all 32mm Fox forks are certainly identical. The crown and steerer may be lighter weight on Floats though....I can't compare models from the same year but looking at the steerer tube where it butts into the crown, my Vans have a far thicker tube wall than my Floats.
Gary, i could be completely wrong here, but the chassis and upper legs are identical and in theory the internals can be swapped over between floats and vanillas.
I certainly cant see how just the guts of the fork could make a difference to its stiffness.
Perhaps, as I say, I can't be certain. However, WMB did moan about the Float chassis feeling stretched at 140mm whereas the vanila is native 140mm so maybe there are some differences internally (you can't change the travel with spacers on a vanilla for instance). Clearly I could settle this by getting a hold of a non QR15 Vanilla but I can't see that happening lol
I'm on the light side and can definitely tell the difference. I'm a complete convert.
The way I describe the difference to friends who don't know about bolt-through forks is to tell them it's like having power steering on a car.
As has been said before I swapped the lowers on my Float 32's for QR15 used same rims, same tyre, same bike, gained massively quicker steering and less deflection over bumps. I'm chuffed 😀
interestingly i went from monster Ts with 20mm to sids ...couldnt get much more of a contrast ...
did i notice much difference ..did i ****
its all in the mind.
How ever going from 2008 sids to 2009 sids what a difference when the legs aint going in different directions !
bigyinn - MemberGaryLake - Member
Huge difference between 9mm QR floats and 15QR Vanillas but the float is a flexi fork and it could just be moving to Vanillas as much as 15QR...Gary please explain? Vanillas and Floats are pretty much the same fork (assuming comparing QR with QR), just the springing medium is different, so how would this affect flex?
Yeah, but isn't Gary comparing Floats with 9mm q/r dropouts to Vanillas with the new 15mm q/r thru-axle, in which case I'd expect the Vans to be stiffer. Apologies if I've read that wrong.
Just try some totems with a 1.5 steerer and then try arguing that fork stiffness is all in the mind.
Bolt through axles, bigger stanchions, wider steerers all make a difference and ultimately feel better on the trail.
only if your mind thinks you need bigger ....
ive had monster Ts (arguably the stiffest forks ever made....triple clamps with the same size stantions as your totems ....)
and i now run 80mm rebas and sids ... i cant think of a time where ive thought i need stiffer forks .....longer yes stiffer no .... my front wheel always goes where i want it through good route planning ....
anyone can plough a big travel bike through anything and claim its skill ...ive been there and done that. the real good guys are the ones who ride nothing down stuff people struggle with on big bikes like kern a guy who almost got scoffed at for wanting to ride the black route at laggan on his azonic steelhead with kinesis maxlight rigid forks and about 10cms of spacers under his stem....ugly inapropriate bike ....still showed us a thing or too down the black route and embarased a few of the 6 inch travel boys ...or raggedonair on here who took his turner down kilbopath faster than most of the dh guys i used to ride with could !
of course the above doesnt apply if you ride a rigid steel singlespeed just to be alternative !
ade ward - Memberi suspect that it's more down to wheel/tyre stiffness rather than fork stiffness
I disagree. I ran an 04 Talas with a QR and Pro2 up front, then swapped to an 08 Pike with the Pro2 20mm conversion kit, and the difference was astounding. The front didn't feel jittery and the tyre felt really planted and unlikely to roll off the surfaces I was riding along.
I went from a 2000 SID XC to some 08 454 pikes (20 mm) boy did i notice the difference one was made of cooked pasta and would flex while trackstanding the other tracks perfectly over head size boulders
anyone can plough a big travel bike through anything and claim its skill
Yeah Steve Peat is rubbish really isn't he, why doesn't he ride a rigid singlespeed?
peat doesnt plough .... i can assure you peats lines are calculated unless he misses one of them ...
I agree that there is a difference in stiffness what i disagree is that other than psychologically it makes little difference in a non race situation where you are unlikely to take really risky lines....