[Closed] First road bike .... Crazy not to go the disc route?

Depends on how you define heavy... A carbon frame + fork will get you to a bit under 9kgs, I think (my small Escapade weighs 10.0kgs for reference)
The Shimano hydros are just awesome, I wouldn't imagine anything else for stopping duties.

If money and weight matter, have a keek at some end of season sales of 2015 models with rim brakes. That should help you decide. There's some stunning bargains at Paul's, Winstanleys, Wheelbase etc. Just don't expect it to be worth much in 3 years.

Particularly bearable if you already have a burlier bike that takes guards and a rack.

Nothing wrong with discs, they are great on my GT Grade (ace bike by the way) and on my Surly Straggler (also great). If I was going to use it a lot in winter I would have discs. Or if I wanted the bike to have any off road capabilities I would have discs. But if it was for fair weather cycling I would still have conventional brakes. I expect there will be less deals on bikes with disc brakes?

If you intend to race, the luddites at the UCI dictate that thou shalt use early 20th century technology, so suck it.
If you want to ride, get discs.

Been done to death elsewhere 🙂

Reckon if it's your first road bike and you're not going to race on it, then you might as well. May be the occasional bit of faff with brake bleeding, a tiny bit of extra weight and cost, but there's not much in the way of downsides.

Might be worth popping down your LBS and trying one and seeing what you think.

If you want to ride, get discs.

Don't quite understand this. I don't have discs on any of my road bikes and ride a lot, am I doing it wrong 🙂

Bleeding ? Mechanical via spyres are fine....

I'd just go for the absolute best deal you can get. I spend more time pedalling than braking, and the rim brakes aren't that bad (they've been the approach so far)

Disc brakes on a road bike are not really a deal breaker. The only time I experience problems with rim brakes is when it's REALLY pissing down. It's not like on a mountain bike where you're riding through mud and wet grass... Your rims generally stay fairly dry, 99% of the time. Those other times, yes disks would be great.

If you keep your bike relatively clean, then rim wear isn't much of an issue. They'll stand up to tens of thousands of miles.

If you were riding all the way through winter on it, disks would definitely be more compelling. CX bike, disks would be good. Your average road bike.....meh. Nice to have in some situations, especially in the British climate. It's not just the UCI holding them back though. They've started using them in racing now, but a lot of teams and pros are indifferent to them.

rim brakes aren't that bad (they've been the approach so far)

See also;
Downtube shifters
Non-index downtube shifters
Clips and straps
Etc.

Just because they've "been the approach so far" doesn't mean they can't be improved on. Disc brakes are quite simply better brakes. Yes, rim brakes can be lighter, but why aren't you using them on your MTB? Oh yes, because you want better brakes. Brakes which work the same, regardless of the weather, brakes which work the same regardless of your wheel going a little out of true, etc.

Why wouldn't you want something better?

Rim brakes just suck, especially if you wish to stop when wet or if you are to ride throughout winter conditions where you will be replacing brake pads on a monthly basis, replacing rims after a few thousand miles due to salt/grit contamination of the pads. Not to mention leaving that shitty black braking surface everywhere.

There is absolutely no quantifiable reason not to choose a disc braked road bike, unless you are a luddite.

PS : my personal opinion btw but if you disagree then you are obviously wrong.

PSS : argue against my reasoning if you wish but don't get upset when there is no reply as arguing on an online forum is the preserve of weirdos.

butcher has it imo, too much debate on this forum about brakes on road bikes. I can go 1000's of miles on the same pads, I've no idea what some people are doing. Yes for a winter/sometimes off road type thing but for a pure road bike it wouldn't be a priority. Not saying they are bad per se but lots of other factors would come first.

Definitely disc. There's a reason there are loads of rim-brake road bike bargains around.

Weight isn't really an issue, unless you're looking to get selected for the Tour de France - plenty of carbon disc road bikes around for under 19lbs (for perspective, my steel disc road bike is 22.5lbs). Geometry and compatibility might be an issue. Modern road disc bikes also tend to have clearance for wider tyres. The upshot is that you'll either have slightly longer chain stays or some sort of fudge (the Cervelo R3 disc has an off-set chain set, the Specialized Tarmac proprietary rear hubs). So, do your research.

Why wouldn't you want something better?

expense
maintenance
availability
reliability
compatibility
weight

Having said that I should be building an all purpose road bike next year and would like it to have discs.

expense

Not really.

maintenance

availability

reliability

compatibility

weight

😉

I only ride road bike when it's dry and rim brakes are more than adequate. If it's wet, I use a disc equipped CX bike.
Will you ride in the rain?

There is absolutely no quantifiable reason not to choose a disc braked road bike, unless you are a luddite.

I have no doubt that one day disk brakes will be the norm on road bikes. And that they will be better. Given the choice of two identical bikes, one with disks, and one without (and let's assume they're identical in weight), I'd go for disks every time. Hell, I'd probably take a weight penalty for them.

The difficulty at the moment, is that there's not a lot to choose from. You'll pay more. It'll weigh more. And there are plenty of other, just as important factors to take into account. If you can find the right bike with disk brakes. Go for it. If not, don't sweat it. It's not a biggy.

What cfh said. If you're buying a new road bike I can't think of a good reason not to go for one with disc brakes (unless you are racing). Bloody marvellous things.

My 2p worth of experience

I've two road bikes

Caad8 with 105 rim brakes.
CaadX with Shimano hyd brakes.

In the dry they're the same, powerful, reliable, 1-finger (from the drops) is plenty powerful,

In the rain, discs are pretty much the same as the dry.
The rim brakes are plain scary - pull lever, wait a very long couple of seconds for the rim to dry off and then slow down a bit, maybe later get some stopping action a while later. Scary, very scary. I now refuse to take it out in the rain.

More context
For my next "sunday best" road bike (likely a Supersix carbon jobbie next year) I'm only considering rim brakes (lighter).

Long story short
Depends on what you're going to do with it!

You'll get the disc evangulists but it just doesn't matter, road cycling is about you not the bike.

Get a decent alloy road bike, maybe one than can take guards if it turns out road is not for you and the bike becomes a commuter/pub thing. Don't worry about the gears,brakes and what not they all work ok.

Put aside 3/400 quid for proper pedals, bibs, jersey gillet etc, even a garmin and HRM. Then ride a lot, ride on your own, ride with mates,ride with a clubif you like it buy some nice wheels and more bits,you'll also then know if you can't live without disc brakes.

edit: make sure it looks nice, thats the most important thing!

For me disc brakes aren't quite there yet. Expensive, limited choice, standards all over the shop, less aero and slower acceleration due to the extra rotating weight. Not being able to race on them is also a pain.

There is absolutely no quantifiable reason not to choose a disc braked road bike, unless you are a luddite.

Yes there is. I have two PowerTap wheel sets that are not disc compatible and I don't want to go through the faff of trying to sell them and buy disc compatible replacements.

There is absolutely no quantifiable reason not to choose a disc braked road bike, unless you are a luddite.

There isn't?

As with tweener wheels my old fashioned rim braked bike didn't suddenly become unusable...

The braking isn't as consistent in all weathers, the trade off is weight and cost (a whole new bike when I didn't want one)..

Don't get me wrong, the BB5s on my Gnarmac, bridalslayer are enough to convince me of the benefits but having a perfectly good road bike already and no real reason to replace it, keeping up with the revolution can wait a while...

If you can, try some of the new full hydraulic disk set up, they really are awesome, I'm a convert, will keep my rim brake bike as well but no way would I buy another one new.

I'm considering a new road bike with rim brakes. I would like discs but there is a huge jump in cost to get a bike with the Shimano hydraulics over something decent with a normal 105 groupset. My local riding isn't very hilly so in reality other than having the "new thing" there would be next to no real world advantage.

I'm also fairly sure I will spend less time fixing the rim braked bike over a set of hydraulics that have had a winters' worth of salt.

I think the OP answered his own question....." Due to finances "
If money is a bit tight then forget about disc...
I don't use disc and I've had no problems with rims for the last 4 years....and I'm going to build up another bike next year...and I'm going to stick with rims brakes

If you want better braking for your rims .....change the pads to Swiss stop, expensive but worth every penny!!

If you were riding all the way through winter on it, disks would definitely be more compelling. CX bike, disks would be good. Your average road bike.....meh. Nice to have in some situations, especially in the British climate.

Agree with this. If you are riding on dry days then not worth worrying about brake type on road.

As for finances it is not usually cheaper to build especially if picking up a road bike in a sale somewhere.

Ooooh, I've never posted a picture of my disc'd road bike before. I ordered this from Rourke in September 2014, picked up in May this year. To celebrate a permanent academic job I convinced the wife I needed a custom commuter... Frame is in Reynolds 931 stainless steel (953, though stronger has thinner walls that can't take disc braking forces), some carbon fork, Rohloff hub with Gates Carbon drive, Middleburn cranks, Ritchey finishing kit AND TRP Hylex hydraulic disc brakes. The bike's not very light but I didn't ask for that (nothing is light with a Rohloff) but it shifts me to work very agreeably. I have a long steep descent, often in heavy traffic, and in rough weather the brakes are great. And I get to ride through Versailles with a British racing green machine with 'Handmade in Staffordshire' down the seat post 😀 !

[img] [/img]

I've recently ventured into the realms of disc brakes on a CX bike (mechanical Spyres). I'm not convinced that they're that great a leap from rim brakes tbh (not ridden in the pishing rain on them yet). Maybe as I get more used to them (and hopefully fitter) this will change.

I'd love to try proper hydraulic (but the cost is prohibitive for me).

The problem about lack of consensus over mounts does make it a bit hit or miss atm. However if you have a preference for one manufacturer over another than hopefully an upgrade / replacement path would be available. Let's face if disc do really take off then rim brakes are going to go the way of 26"....

OP as someone has already pointed out, if this is your first road bike you are unlikely to be racing so just choose what you fancy/can afford. Chances are you'll buy the wrong size or style but until you've entered that world you can't really know. What ever you get should last you at least five years. Ands that a lifetime away 😀 hopefully by then they'll have arrived at consensus!

And if you squint you can even see "Gaidong" written on the top tube - proof it's mine and all. Got all the important stuff covered... 😉

depends if you want so-so brakes or decent ones. Pretty easy really.

I've never had a disc brake (in 15-20 years of riding) that hasn't squeeled at one point or another, nor have I ever had one that hasn't ended up with warped rotors or sticky pistons, leading to rub/chiming etc.

I'd consider the above a necessary evil on an MTB, but on a road bike it drove me to distraction, I want my road bike to be silent, simple and fast. Disc brakes to me are none of those things.

Since I don't race I'll take the slightly and occasionally increased stopping distances and stick with my 105 callipers.

Disclaimer - A few years ago I would happily fiddle with brakes every other night, sanding pads, cleaning rotors, realigning callipers etc. but now I can't be arsed, put it down to a fourth floor flat with no space and white carpets, does not encourage tinkering!

Where do you ride that changing rim pads on a road bike is a monthly exercise ?

Even my cross bike after 4 years of 15k each way..... Was still on original rims and only 4th set of pads. - changed them at yearly service.

My road bike only seems to wear pads when in france descending off cols. other than that its usually natural gradiant that slows me down 🙂

Rim brakes here on my roadie.

I cant see how Id ever need anymore power (Ultegra).

I've worn one set of rim pads out in 3 all weather years and around 10k miles. I doubt disc pads would last that long.

Thought one of the main arguements for not using discs in the wet is the power overwhelms the tire grip, meaning more likely to lock and crash. I suppose that could be true for a rider who has only ever used rim brakes and is used to pulling the brakes as hard as they can and hoping when braking in the wet!

Next roadie purchase will likely be disc, but that will be in 3 years or so...

Let's face if disc do really take off then rim brakes are going to go the way of 26"....

Possibly but the actual "performance benefits" on road bikes (road racing and TT) are subtly different and debatable IMO braking performance, the ability to stop/slow down has always sat well behind a whole bunch of other criteria: weight, aerodynamics, even reliability will have as much influence on racing decisions as sponsors pushing the new and shiny... And if there's one thing that influences road bike sales to regular cyclists it's what the pro's are racing on...

I still think there should be more 135mm spaced frames with disc mounts and a hole for a rim caliper to smooth the transition a bit, buy the lower spec rim brake build and move to discs later, or chuck your old parts on a new frame with a bit of "future proofing" even switch between light weight rim braked build in the summer and a heavier winter trainingdisc build on the same frame... it would actually make a lot of sense for quite a few people IMO, but no bugger makes such a frame at present so far as I know...

Discs and hydraulic ones at that. Having had a blow out on Monday coming down Holme Moss as I was mincing on wet roads (keeping it under 40 mph) it is something I am keen to avoid. At 17st the couple of lb for discs makes no odds to me. Blow outs on biggish descents are not pleasing.

I can't think of anyone in my club who has discs, and we're not a luddite or poorly paid club either... I think it'll be some time before discs become the norm on road bikes, there's just much less demand.

They're a no brainer for MTB where quick, powerful braking is essential for control and safety - you're riding on an unstable surface.

On the road it's not quite the same dynamic, the use case isn't as strong. My summer bike has done several thousand miles over 5 years (3k?) and I'm still on the original brake blocks. Essentially, road biking doesn't require anything like as much braking as MTB and if you're riding mainly in the dry, rim brakes are perfectly adequate. Discs would have been a total waste on this bike and just made it heavier and harder to accelerate.

My winter bike would benefit from discs in that it's more likely to get ridden in the wet or damp, but on a typical ride I'm really not braking that much and brake blocks will last a couple of winters before being replaced.

My commuter on the other hand - lots of stop starting (I work in central London) and lots of wet riding - and I go through brake blocks one set per winter... I really like my current commuter so it's a keeper but when I do come to replace it I suspect I'll go for discs as they're better for wet weather braking and I care less about the weight than I do on my other bikes.

Let's put it this way. If the road bike standard were already discs and somebody invented rim brakes, they would never take off.

I understand people's resistance to what basically amounts to having to buy at the very least a new frame, fork, wheels, brakes and possibly shifters (so virtually a new bike). But if you are going to buy a new bike anyway, why not go disc?

I can kind of understand the debate raging on the roadie forums, but since most of us on here probably already run hydraulic disc brakes on our mountain bikes, surely we don't need convincing that disc brakes are the better choice, and will inevitably become the road bike norm (through nothing other than manufacturer supply rather than consumer demand).

While rim brakes can be extremely scary and dangerous (memories of steel rims, rain, and ineffective brakes) a modern dual pivot (I've used Dura-Ace etc) with Swissstop pads gives superb braking. There's ample power, plus great feel, and even steep descents and heavy rain don't give cause for concern. Brake pads last for yonks, and they're easy to change with cartridge holders. I don't think I'd go out of my way to choose a bike with disc brakes.

For me disc brakes aren't quite there yet. Expensive, limited choice, standards all over the shop, less aero and [b]slower acceleration due to the extra rotating weight.[/b] Not being able to race on them is also a pain.

Is that actually true? I haven't done any sums but I'd have thought that since you can make disc rims much lighter due to lack of braking surface, any extra weight would offset by the fact that the moment of inertia is less (weight closer to the centre of the wheel).

I have 2 road bikes, one has discs. For a 'Sunday best' road bike or if you're racing, I can see the argument for rim brakes, although I'd probably plump for discs personally. But for any other bike, discs every time IMO.

"Discs and hydraulic ones at that. Having had a blow out on Monday coming down Holme Moss as I was mincing on wet roads (keeping it under 40 mph) it is something I am keen to avoid. At 17st the couple of lb for discs makes no odds to me. Blow outs on biggish descents are not pleasing."

Errrmmm disks are braking items - not puncture proof tires.

I am guessing the root cause of the blowout was deemed to be excessive heat in the rim caused by the rim brake...

In the uk in the autumn in the wet......

For me disc brakes aren't quite there yet. Expensive, limited choice, standards all over the shop, less aero and slower acceleration due to the extra rotating weight. Not being able to race on them is also a pain.

The first three I'll give you (although "expense" is a relative term when you're already going to ne spending £2000 on a bike).
The last two are just bollocks, pure and simple.

Specialized put 2 Tarmacs in the wind tunnel, one disc, one rim braked.
They reckoned that at absolute worst, it was about 8 seconds slower over 25 miles, and that was with the wind coming from about 20 degrees left, right onto the disc and caliper. So basically, not remotely noticeable by the average Joe who'd be buying one.

Giant's new Defy range is lighter now than it was with rim brakes thanks to a complete redesign to accommodate the discs and the different forces that are generated.

If I was buying a new road bike now it would absolutely be disc brake. I would however be doing a lot of research into what was out there, the potential for upgrades over time, the wheel choices and so on.

SRAM wireless plus hydraulic discs and I'll be there!

As above most Saturdays theres 30+ on the club rides, no discs yet.

As above most Saturdays theres 30+ on the club rides, no discs yet.

Rewind 5, 10 or 20 years. Make it a mtb club. Change discs to dropper posts, 29ers, full suss, forks or even discs.

Discs are coming to Road bikes. If it's not for racing jump right in.

Disc for sure because they work better in cruddy conditions ... Allow me to show you a Salsa Cossal. It's a bargain.

[url= http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/salsa-2014-colossal-2-complete-road-bike-4151-p.asp ]salsa colossal[/url]

You get discs, a quality steel frame, carbon fork, and shed load off the Rrp. Also being a salsa, it's a mountain bikers road bike.

[img] [/img]

Also being a salsa, it's a mountain bikers road bike.

You say that as if it is a good thing 😉

If you want to race it is rim, if not it is a no brainer - discs and hydraulic at that as more reliable. Riding in the wet, traffic, commuting all improved with discs INMO. Weight wise there is no real down side - anyone who reckons they are heavy should look at rim weights on discs - they can save you serious rotating weight! Myth that they increase mass. Fulcrum racing 5 rim brake wheeelset is 1795g. I have a set of AC wide lightening 29er MTB wheels which come in at 1565g! So a set of road wheels should be load less. The new Storck disc road bike with carbon tubs has a wheelset which comes in at 580g......(it does cost North of £10k though!)

Disc brakes are great, but you are going to pay a premium, compared to a caliper-brake bike with a similar specification.

Entry-level to even mid range disc brake road bikes tend to have quite heavy wheels - 2KG+ is not uncommon and can make the bike feel very sluggish

If you spend good money (over £2K) you can get a decent bike with hydraulic brakes and wheels around 1700-1800 gramme that should weigh overall around 8kg, and will feel zippy under power

[img] [/img]

This Defy above has carbon fibre wheels that are 200 gramme lighter than the model down which has aluminium alloy wheels, and its quite noticeable when riding hard

There's a lovely Defy frame in the classifieds 😉

"Also being a salsa, it's a mountain bikers road bike.
You say that as if it is a good thing "

Salsa make lovely mtbs , lovely cross bikes ....sadly that does not translate into a nice road bike. All the ingrediants are right but that front end is horrible.

And your right , the rest of it does look like an mtb with a pair of drops on.

That giants lovely.

Crashrash .- 165 quid rim wheelset weight vs 600 quid 29er wheels ..... Go look at the weights of 600 quid wheelsets for the road rim brakes .

I do see a place for disk brakes - stopping carbon rim delamination on very long descents.

Some really good points being made here! Not being able to race sounds like a real downer to me, I've only recently got into road biking and I [i]definitely[/i] want to race at some point- it sounds like a lot of fun! The price thing is a real turn off too- my road bike cost £700 when I bought it (Trek 1.2) and it's great, I love it. I can't see any decent disc brakes bikes for that price though (yet! 😉 )

Another thing that occurred to me is that I went on a club run recently and really liked it. One of the things I liked about it is the riding in a group- the lack of wind resistance really does suck you along. However, if the person in front has more powerful brakes than you, is that gonna cause a problem if you can't stop as quickly as them?

Rim brakes all the way I have a nice Sabbath September Titanium, Ultegra and carbon stem bars and seat post needs selling so I can buy the disc version 🙂
£800 btw based in the Lakes

FWIW the new Kinesis 4S has swappable drop outs for 130 + 135mm spacing, holes for calipers and flat mount standard for discs meaning you can have whatever braking you want and if you choose calipers there's no ugly arse redundant disc mounts sitting in the wind.

For me a summer bike go calipers. If you want guards and all round usability I'd head towards disks.

I've a Spesh Roubaix with rim brakes and there has been precisely one instance in the five years that I've had it that I wished I'd had disks. That was coming down from Great Dun Fell this "summer": it was snowing at the summit and wasn't exactly pleasant for the entire descent.

My main beef with rim brakes is that they do eventually wear out the rim so you either have to rebuild the wheel with a new rim or get a new wheel. Having said that, a pair of Hope wheels lasted three years' all weather riding in the Dales which isn't exactly flat.

A mainly summer bike: I'd go with rim brakes. Cyclocross, an all year round bike or commuter then I'd be looking at disk brakes.

@shermer75 When riding in a group you need to be very alert and be looking well ahead rather than at the wheel or gears of the rider in front. Unless there's a reason to stop quickly then a typical group will just ease up rather than slam on the brakes.

Regarding braking with disc brakes, a good set of Shimano hydro discs on the road bike have incredible modulation, giving the rider a much larger degree of control over their stopping.

This is contrary to some reports in the media claiming that the huge stopping power will cause crashes, especially in a mixed group of riders. Yes, if you want to cause a crash, you could certainly jam on the anchors (you would still outbrake the tire in reality, and skid) but once you get used to the braking system its not an issue.

I'd say from my experiences riding the hydraulic disc brake Defy the past year, that brake control is something I now feel lacking, as I am back on a caliper brake race bike.

On the hydro disc bike, I could exert great control over the brakes, from the hoods, using just one finger.

[img] [/img]

Back on a caliper brake bike, there is nothing like the degree of modulation, nor stopping power, especially in rain where even good caliper brake pads struggle compare to the disc brakes

This is contrary to some reports in the media claiming that the huge stopping power will cause crashes, especially in a mixed group of riders.

I think the issue is more that in, say the wet, the rider with discs would start slowing down immediately, whereas riders without (especially on carbon rims) would only start slowing down after a second or two of applying the brake, likely ploughing into the back of the rider with discs!

I sold my two calliper road bikes at the start of the year after having ridden my RLT throughout the winter (Shimano R785 Hydro disks) The difference in performance and modulation was, quite frankly, alarming. My main road bike is now a Pickenflick.

Once you go hydro, you'll NEVER, EVER, go back. It's akin to car without power steering...now, in 2015, when you have a choice, would you buy one as your daily driver?

Ooops

I have a CX for gravel and child towing duties and a cervelo S3 with dual pivot ultegra and fancy mavic rims with machine-odized surfaces

to be honest, theres nothing in it.

the S3 is a lot, lot faster, and never feels under braked.

but fashion, yeah?

^^^ I have those mavic 'expensuim' wheels on my road bike and they're as good as/better than the BB7s on my CX bike.

I really like disc brakes but I haven't been overwhelmed by how good they are on my CX bike. Just 'whelmed'. Suspect that might change if (when) I go for hyrdaulics.

EDIT - oh, and I don't think that telling everyone to get fancy mavic wheels is necessarily the best solution. I think they cost about the same as a set of shimano hydraulics and some OK disc wheels.

I have those mavic 'expensuim' wheels on my road bike

totally worth it for the noise

For a light weight summer/dry weather, not needing rack/cross tyres, rim brakes are fine and I'd say better unless budget is big.

I've had a disc road bike for commuting/touring/training for 10 years but my summer bike still has caliper brakes.

Most affordable disc ready frames are not light.