[Closed] First Fat Bike ride, or all the niches...

Saw a lot more of the scenery due to lower speed, and felt the need to explore more

I've found this to be one of the best bits of fat biking, I'd say that the big tyres let you get away with a lot more and you don't quite need to pay as much attention to the trail. Looks great with the orange rims btw.

IMO a fat bike is perfect for 'bimbling' around on.

And they climb brilliantly - if you have the legs it'll get you to the top

Nates sliding out and feeling "like a spacehopper" suggests you might need a wee bit less tyre pressure.

Scotroutes: yes, I did think that might be a solution. Was running 10 at the back, which is a knard 120tpi. It did slip, but felt fine - I don't mind the back sliding a bit.

The front, Nate 27tpi, was at 9psi, with a tube. Still felt quite hard. Should I come down a couple of psi front and back? I had heard that a yes should grip like spikes so it was a bit of a let down.

I go for 7 in the front and 8 in the back round the Surrey Hills on my puffin. That's my 72kgs on 65mm(?) Marge Lites and 4" Jumbo Jims. Went up to 8.5 and 9.5 for the Lakes (rocks, speed, tiredness, plus bivi kit on the bike).

About same weight as you at 72kg, but on 80mm robsson rims. 3.8 rear, 4.0 front. Will try those pressures, thanks. Bet it's slower on the road!

I found the 27tpi Nate to be a horrid thing. Then again I like Larrys. Use a Floater up front though. I've also found that fat tyres are prone to an aquaplaning (mudplaning?) no matter what pressure if you are going fast enough and hit mud.

I run tubed Nates and went with the guide of 1psi for every 10kg of rider weight then fine tuned from there. That worked for me.

Also agree about a fat bike being a great way for chilled out bimbling.

Yep, seems good for taking it easy. Single speed not always chilled though, but 90% of the time it's relaxing. I'd like to do longer distances, and lack of gearing does limit my range.

7psi F / 8psi R on my SS Puffin.
And I'm a fair bit heavier than yow.
Ditto the indistructable feel,
It's a lot more useable than I was expecting.
My FS has come out for a bimble today, while my 11yr old rides the Puffin. I can't get him off it. He loves it.
FS feels a bit...fragile in comparison. 🙂
Was expecting to sell the Puffin after a while but it's a keeper.

11 year old on SS fat bike - excellent!

Mine wouldn't fit on my xl. Strangely it felt a bit short at times, but I'm used to old school stretched xc bikes. Might raise the bars a bit - they are very flat and straight.

I put a 70mm x 25 deg on mine, I like a more upright position. Fit wise, it's about perfect.
Here's my two, eldest on the [i]stolen[/i] Puffin.

Seems to fit him well, but not sure highbrow my the best idea!

I think the xl fits me pretty good, but the top tube is quite high. I catch the important bits if I jump off. I think it could have been designed to be the same length but with a lower stand over. Still, it's not any different to a cross bike so I'll survive.

30x17 gearing. Might try 30x19.

Tried tyres at 7 and 8 psi. The board certainly does seem to deflect more.- more supple I guess.

I enjoy a good bimble on my fat bike, but I'm not convinced that they are always slow. In fact, it is the speed, up and down, that I find most surprising.

Going up the extra traction, low rolling resistance (on Jumbo Jims) and the stiffness of the hardtail frame all seems to add up to something that can rocket up the right sort of climb. Also if, like me, your downhill speed is more limited by your (lack of) nerve than anything else the stability and bombproof tank feel can result in you carrying a lot more speed. Sections where, in the past, I've minced down (and not really enjoyed) I can find myself attacking on the fatbike and of course, with a bit more speed some sections actually get easier.

There are limits of course. Mine is certainly slow on tarmac (but I tend to avoid that anyway) and when things get beyond a certain level keeping my feet on the pedals can become the limiting factor. But a fatbike with a suspension fork can make for a surprisingly capable trail bike.

Well, roverpig, funny you should say that. I think the perception I had was it felt quite slow, and apart from the tired roadies, I cheekily rode up to and passed a couple of mtbers. Seemed odd.

I'm not a huge strava bunny, but I like to see where I've been and how I compare to previous rides. Got 10 personal bests today - mainly the downhill, rocky bits that scare me. One bit, I laid off the brakes completley, which is a first for me down there. I think it's "slippery serpent rolling downhill". So, I agree, not that slow really, but obviously I'm not that fast!

Like you I was late to the party but not so hardcore so went with 10 gears and still grinning like a lunatic every ride.

Yep the scenery you get to see and the more I ride the faster it goes passed when I want to - other times a bimble to a coffee - heaven.

Enjoy the niche.

James

So, I agree, not that slow really, but obviously I'm not that fast!

That last bit strikes a (power) chord with me too (see what I did there 🙂 ). Fat bikes suit me, but I need to be careful not to fall into the trap of assuming that means they'll suit everyone. I'm also not that fast and I think that may be the key. If you're a rad dude (or dudette) who charges fearlessly into everything at warp speed you're probably not going to fancy squishy tyres or a bit of undamped suspension. But if you are used to timidly mincing your way down anything technical a big ole truck can be a real eye opener.

@ RP you managed to name both your fat bikes in that reply 😆 😉

That's bang on roverpig. Exactly how I feel about my fat bike

@ RP you managed to name both your fat bikes in that reply

Roverpig: The first person ever to acknowledge my username inspiration! Guitars have been my other interest since about when I got into mountain bikes, when I was 15 years old. 1987 seems a long time ago!

And, yeah, if I had the skills to be into full sus, hooligan antics (which I secretly want to be, but feel a bit old) then the fat might not appeal. Still, I was quite enjoying bouncing into the air off roots and rocks at every opportunity.

RoverPig: The first person ever to acknowledge my username inspiration.

To be honest, I've been looking for an excuse to work that in for longer than I care to admit 😳 More of an acoustic man myself, but I'm a few years older than you. Well that's my excuse anyway !

Recently bought a smaller acoustic for convenience in the house with kids running about. Like it a lot, but harder on the fingers than an we electric.

Just thinking about climbing - there were lots of short sharp climbs I thought I wouldn't make today, but just blasted up and made them with relative ease. Didn't seem to be affected by the bumps.

I'm sitting here, watching a James Bond, thinking I quite liked this fast bike thing. Totally unrelated of course.

A bit if an update on the fat bike. I did a second ride today and took it to Swinley. First time I'd been there so didn't know what to expect, and it has some really good bits, and some not so good, but overall I really enjoyed it.

I ran 7psi front and 8psi rear, and it definitely felt less bouncy, and more absorbent. In fact, it was quite amazing just how accomplished the thing was on some of the faster, flow sections. I'm not that good at berms and things, but after doing about 100 of them, I was letting it roll, weight back and it just pinged round them. I was even popping of some of the jumps and not crashing, which is the bike looking after my incompetence and being forgiving. It was a bit of a handful on the really tight stuff, but the new Stooge bars and the 50mm stem made it easy enough to manhandle into direction changes with lots of body English.

I thought I might look a bit silly with all the guys and gals on proper bikes flying past me, and the thing did get some odd looks and it does look daft really, but I'd say I could hold my own on most of the sections and keep up with the flow.

Did I wish I had suspension at any point? There were a couple of dips where I wasn't back far enough that got the heart pumping, but I used to get that with front sus too. That's more crap technique than anything. I do find it was most stable riding it hanging off the rear, which unweights the front tyre a bit, losing grip, but at least it is easy to handle and prevents the moments.

I also swapped the 17T rear for an 18T which made a huge difference - far less of a slog and could get up all the hills.

Not a bimble today, but bloody good fun in a completely different sort of way. Becoming more impressed every ride with this thing.

Fatbikes make great bimbling bikes...i find it so easy to ride.
Easier than my anthem or 5..bit strange over the anthem.
Maybe the geo just suits my body better.
I'll always chose the fatty if I'm taking my 5 year old on his bike.
Did about 10 mile on local trails/bridle ways today with him..
[img] [/img]

Jumped on my Charge Cooker Max today for the first time in months, as I've been training on the road bike for a charity ride. Now I'm only ticking two of the niches (fat and steel) but I love this bike.

Jumped on today and the first 5 minutes were horrible; self steer, like pedalling through treacle and that extra q-factor feels like I'm straddling a horse. After that first bit though it all made sense again, tons of grip even on a sandy loose climb, turning heads and kids making comments. So, so good.

Fatties aren't bimbly or slow if they are set up properly. I have a light XC racer, a full sus, and a fattie and yesterday on the fattie I smashed a bunch of PBs and overtook people on all sorts of bikes. If I was going for a bimble I probably would take the fattie but they are certainly capable and fast machines if you want them to be. Get the innertubes out and get your pressures right and they really fly. Be careful not to go too low on the pressures or you'll lose confidence in corners at speed (I know it's trendy to go low and slow...). I can't comment on what's right for you as you're a fair bit lighter than I am, but you'll feel the squirm in fast corners if you go too low and that's a sign to increase pressure. Bounce is usually caused by poor technique rather than poor tyre setup 🙂

They do seem to cover a lot of bases - I've read Sanny's tongue-in-cheek piece on a fat bike being the only bike you'll need, and I can see it now that I've experiences it. Only off-road bike maybe, if you cover the middle ground.

As for bounciness, I get what you are saying @Lustyd about technique. I've ridden SS and, back in the day, fixed, for long periods, and I can spin pretty smoothly, but I do find the fattie more prone to it than other bikes I've ridden. It just takes a bit of adjustment and it's fine.

Didn't notice the tyres folding so 7PSI on front might be good. It wasn't muddy so still need to see if the front washes out in the slop.

Jumped on the Brompton this morning (from one clown bike to another), and, whoah, it felt weird, spindly, unstable and the brakes were scary. Well, for about half a mile, until I got used to it again. It's amazing how the human bean can adapt to something so different really quickly. Sort of wished I was on the fat bike though...

My fatbike'd be the only bike I need if I stopped riding half the stuff I ride 😆 But it's still great.

The thing with rolling resistance is more complicated than people think, riding a fatbike at moderate speed isn't that hard but the faster you go the faster the rolling resistance piles up. I think because of hysteresis- lag in the deformation of the tyre, once you start going faster than the tyre deforms you're basically having to push it out of the way, all the time and the faster you go the harder that is. I did a race on mine that had a pretty flat, long trailcentre bit and it was just orrible keeping it up to speed.

Bounciness can definitely be a thing though, there's some sections that really upset mine and it sometimes really catches me out because it's usually in bits you don't even notice on a normal bike- long compressions or lumps, washboard surfaces and that.

Didn't notice i not rolling well. I seemed to be freewheeling quite a lot when others were pedalling. Also, I didn't notice any washboard, cobbles or roots - they just seem to disappear. It's just when the front wheel disappears down a hole with a step the other side it can get a bit bouncy. Still, it handled it ok and it's usually tiredness and not concentrating and lifting the front over obstacles that catches me out.

I'm not racing though so I suspect if you're up against XC whippets it's a whole different thing and might become a bit of a slog. I'm happy with slower speeds, but it does drop like a stone and pick up speed very quickly when a force of 9.81m/s2 helps it on its way.

Good tyres and good setup will leave it rolling well, and probably better than a skinny bike. The trouble is most people don't try different tyres on a fattie because they are crazy money. Having tried Kendas before my JJs I can tell you it makes a huge difference and I'm sure leads to comments like Northwind made above. The Juggernauts were like boat anchors and I couldn't get speed up easily. Jumbo Jim is like riding a race bike and I can accelerate and keep speed easily. I can average 22mph on the flat on mine with ease which is almost as good as my road bike (but with more grins!). I won't get rid of the road bike, it's way better for long rides on roads.

Definitely a 'terminal velocity' with fatbikes as Northwind identifies, but once you get the pressure and feel dialled-in they're only marginally slower than an MTB IME - my example is my SDW double attempt, where I co-incidentally set-out from Winchester with another rider on his carbon-everything, full-sus 29er. Each riding our own pace / routes overnight we next met at Eastbourne after 11 hours and I was only about 30 minutes behind, or 4% slower

@dovebiker, still anecdotal evidence based on YOUR bike setup. The fact that you and Northwind suffer the same issue is irrelevant, many other people don't suffer that issue. Mine doesn't suffer from that and I have some of the fattest tyres on the market. My times on Strava are close to the top, and many of my PBs are on the fattie (some on XC hardtail and some on full sus).

It's not the fattie at fault, it's either the rider or the bike/setup.

How on earth can it be a rider, bike or setup thing? 😆 How does a rider increase rolling resistance exactly?

I have JJs on it right now, it's still obvious when you want to make it go faster than it wants to. In some ways, more obvious with the JJs than my Minions or my old Surlys, since they're faster in the first place.

It's not an "issue", it's not something that anything's at fault for, and it's not even a fatbike thing- it's the sme thing that makes 120tpi tyres faster than 60tpi tyres, and tubeless faster than tubes. It's just more apparent on fatbikes because the tyres deform so much more.

I can outroll race whippets on race whippety bikes on fast gravel descents using 4.8 or 4.0 JJs.

I'm [at least] 50lb heavier than a race whippet which might have something to do with it but my PBs show I'm faster than when I'm on a race whippety bike, so it's not just that.

How on earth can it be a rider, bike or setup thing? How does a rider increase rolling resistance exactly?

There you go again assuming it's rolling resistance inherent in fat bikes. I've said several times that on my fleet there isn't more resistance on the fattie. I have oodles of data supporting this.
You, on the other hand, have data saying that YOUR fat bike is slower. That says bike, setup, or rider to me loud and clear. You talk about deformation - my tyres don't deform because I have them correctly inflated to be fast and controllable on corners. You clearly have yours set up differently as you say they deform (squirm) and that they feel slower.
I'd be quite happy to help set your bike up for you if you're near Swinley so we can get you up to speed?

what pressures do you run, lustyd? and how heavy are you?

I'm 92KG (bike is just under 14KG, plus nearly 1KG of water) and run 13psi at the moment in 4.8" JJs. Not sure whether that'll help you though as there are loads of other factors. I don't tend to carry much in the way of tools etc. so those weights are pretty much the total (maybe 0.5KG clothes etc).
Run tubeless and ride mainly XC on it.

I can't say I've noticed this "hysteresis effect" but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that it doesn't seem to affect how and where I ride. To be fair, I'm usually grinding uphill too slowly for that effect to matter or dragging my brakes down the other side. I have noticed that I brake less on the fatty, so maybe the tyres are providing some sort of brake at high speeds. If so, I like it and so do my brake pads 🙂

It's a bit like the heavier wheels being slower to accelerate. It's true, but I'm not sure I don't prefer it. My skinny bikes can go from too slow to "oh crap, brake" in no time, whereas the fatty builds speed more slowly, which gives me time to get used to it.

As I've said before, I think it depends on where you are as a rider. If you are pushing the limits you might find some negatives but those features might be part of the appeal for somebody else.

I'm in the Surrey Hills most weekends with my Fat Bike (Nutrail). I run 4.4 JJ's tubeless, weigh about 90kg and have 6psi front and 7psi rear, unbelievable grip and great rolling resistance!

This is my only bike, and if I'm honest there is nothing it can't do.

@Roverpig if that were the case how come so many of my PBs are on the fattie and not the XC bike or FS?
This is the problem, thinking something is slower isn't the same as that thing actually being slower. Strava is handy in that it shows you on your regular tracks what is faster and not faster in the real world, very much like racing yourself over and over again on different bikes and setups.

@Roverpig if that were the case how come so many of my PBs are on the fattie and not the XC bike or FS?

Same here, but they are not on fast "pedally" sections, which I think is what Northwind was referring to. I'm certainly not trying to clam that fatbikes are slow, but I'm not sure anybody is trying to claim that. I've set PBs on climbs, but my speed is too low there for the hysteresis effect to matter. I've also set PBs on descents, but the amount of speed I can carry through corners matters far more there than any slight reduction there might be in top speed. I'm not saying the hysteresis effect is real, but it's an interesting hypothesis and I'm keeping an open mind.

I'm loads quicker on my XC bike than on my fatty, but the fatness makes me grin like a loon & is by far the most comfortable to ride.. 62 miles of off roadness around Cannock Chase Saturday confirmed that. Wasn't particularly quick, but only lack of time stopped me riding any longer. Didn't hammer legs like it does when I ride that sort of distance off road on a "normal" MTB either ..
It is pretty hefty & runs on Floaters at about 6-8 psi( no idea really as I go for the squeeze test rather than psi)

lustyd - Member

You talk about deformation - my tyres don't deform because I have them correctly inflated to be fast and controllable on corners.

I'm really trying to respond to this without being a dick but it's difficult. All bike tyres deform, and fatbikes more than any other, it is essentially the entire point. Yours do too

I'll take it right back to the basics. You understand that the Jumbo Jims are faster rolling than the Kenda Juggernauts, right? But the juggernaut is a lower, more sloped tread tyre. They have roughly the same thickness. And the JJs actually have a softer rubber too. So where do you think the rolling resistance coming from?

Similarly, you probably know that tubeless rolls faster than tubed. But do you know why? It's the exact same thing- the extra rubber requires a constant force to deform it. 5-10 watts, dependent on pressure, with a jumbo jim.

they are not on fast "pedally" sections

@Northwind you're not coming accross as a dick, you're just not listening to other opinions and facts (and that's what the Internet is all about...). As I've repeatedly said, the masses of real world evidence contradicts your pseudoscience assembled from internet forums. I don't mind what you believe, but you won't convince me to ignore measured evidence collected by myself and my friends over thousands of miles. Yes, the tyres roll differently. What you're ignoring (again and again) is that this gives positives as well as negatives. Slightly reduced rolling resistance due to rubber/carcass movement is more than offset by improved rollover due to size and shape. Rolling resistance measurement only measures one of these factors because that site is squarely aimed at showing the best tyre model from a construction perspective. Other factors are excluded to compare one variable and only one variable (also, his machine would kill itself if it had uneven bumps!).
This is why 29ers roll better than 27.5 which roll better than 26 too. Those also have nothing to do with tyre construction.

I'm faster on my Fatbike (dude) than my 5.
Last time I rode my 5 I didn't enjoy it because of how much slower I was on it, this was just on local trails/bridle paths.
I put around 14psi front 12psi rear.

I don't get what all the fuss is about with the rolling resistance debate. I couldn't care less quite frankly. I have a Cube Nutrail with the 4.4" JJ's. It rolls very well and I'm able to go quicker downhill on it than my full sus trail bike.

Having beefed the brakes up, sorted the bar width and gone tubeless, it's easily the most fun bike I've ever ridden. That's all that matters for me. Doubt I'll be riding it for a few days after this weather though!

I'll take it right back to the basics. You understand that the Jumbo Jims are faster rolling than the Kenda Juggernauts, right? But the juggernaut is a lower, more sloped tread tyre. They have roughly the same thickness. And the JJs actually have a softer rubber too. So where do you think the rolling resistance coming from?

Similarly, you probably know that tubeless rolls faster than tubed. But do you know why? It's the exact same thing- the extra rubber requires a constant force to deform it. 5-10 watts, dependent on pressure, with a jumbo jim.

With Northwind here, i find my fat bike has its "own pace" that there is a speed that off road but relatively flat i can hold easily, but to go that extra 4-5mph you seem to have to double the effort almost.

requires a constant force to deform it

why does this constant force increase out of proportion with the speed when you go faster?

Mine (Scott Big Jon) is the fastest bike I've ever ridden in a crushingly unstoppable kind of way. Strava says it's between 15 and 40 seconds/mile quicker than my other bikes.

It has a kind of elastic energy that propels it along even when I ease off a bit. It's the only bike I've ever ridden where I sometimes have to dab the brakes going uphill 🙂

Just to show it off, i've just finished building this as the weekend, it's 4ibs lighter than last fat bike, so hoping it'll ride that way too.

Interested to see what the Alpkit bars are like to as it'll be used a lot for bikepacking.

[img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4275/34967028082_c490eb8ae8.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4275/34967028082_c490eb8ae8.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/VgVadw ]1[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/49281217@N02/ ]Scud75[/url], on Flickr[/img][img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4270/35131605995_ca87324f88.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4270/35131605995_ca87324f88.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/VwsEuK ]2[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/49281217@N02/ ]Scud75[/url], on Flickr[/img][img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4206/34286961754_b2045cdeab.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4206/34286961754_b2045cdeab.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/UePDc1 ]4[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/49281217@N02/ ]Scud75[/url], on Flickr[/img][img][url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4236/35131605535_7ee80f33a9.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4236/35131605535_7ee80f33a9.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/VwsEmP ]3[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/49281217@N02/ ]Scud75[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Nice bike, scud!

I'm not in either camp here, not really felt a speed limit from effort any more than I have on a different bike. Speed limit for me comes more from the fine balance of tyre pressures.

Pressures on the low end give you that magic carpet ride, which puts a smile on your face at low to medium speeds, but pushed hard into corners at higher speeds gets you into squirmy trouble, same with trying to turn it into steep switchbacks hard on the brakes - straight on!

Put a few more psi in and you lose that small bump compliance, the tyres absorb less of the force, but have the ability to resist more force on bigger bumps and higher side loads/braking loads.

Thanks Ned

There definitely is a sweet spot for the tyres, but find that the sweet spot for the beach is different often to that riding rocky/rooty stuff.

@Painey you don't notice because you run JJs! Put some Kenda Juggernauts on and you'll feel why rolling resistance matters, the drag is unbelievable!

My go to bike, but every ride is slow as everyone from 10yr old kids to 80 year old blokes want to talk about it!!

My go to bike, but every ride is slow as everyone from 10yr old kids to 80 year old blokes want to talk about it!!

@Painey you don't notice because you run JJs! Put some Kenda Juggernauts on and you'll feel why rolling resistance matters, the drag is unbelievable!

I had a look at them and they do look like they'd be draggy as hell! I must admit I only tend to use my fat bike when it's dry. Chiefly because on the South Downs where I live, when it's wet you get very slippery chalk and it's tricky get grip anywhere with big tyres. Also because fat bike tyres aren't cheap, I ride one of my other bikes.

Must admit, I've also been thinking about changing the frame on mine for something carbon.

Here's something carbon:

[img] [/img]
[url= http://www.carbonspeedbikes.com/ ]Carbonspeed[/url] CS-197 frame and matching carbon wheels. 25lbs with a dropper post, 1x10 and JJ 4s.

All this lightweight stuff, I don't know. My puffin comes in at 34lbs single speed, so easily beats that.

Just a brief update on the Puffin, for whoever might be remotely interested. Third ride on Saturday - different again. I'm trying to find it's limitations and have done 3 different rides.

Bimble around Surrey Hills, taking it easy, following my nose - Tick. Comfy, relaxing, safe.

Swinley Trail Centre, going as fast as I dare - Tick. Shocked me as to how much fun it was, and just egged me on to treat it bad. Loved it!

This weekend - loops around Surrey Hill trails based in Peaslake. Much bumpier than Swinley as they are natural trails and found a limitation. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast on Barry's, Secret Santa, Bo, etc, and it has bizarre ability to lift the front wheel at will - short chain stays?

I found it on the first ride, and it that if you ram the front wheel into a hollow, or big root, it can ping the front end up in the air. I tried a mate's full suss and it certainly absorbs these hits. I guess it is the nature of rigid bikes, but I think it might be the tyre. I'm running at 7PSI now, but I think the 27tpi nate might be really stiff and not give much and have this bouncing characteristic. Good grip in turns though and I'm getting more confidence to just chuck the bike at corners now.

Still, as I mentioned, it wasn't really a problem, as just lift the front wheel up and it flies over stuff. so is it a tick for Surrey Hills trails? I think so, as I've never had so much fun there. My shoulders are sore today though from all the upper body effort - a bonus really.

Also, I got a PB up the gulley - being single speed, it was an out of the saddle, lung bursting sprint and the rear tyre just gripped the rocks and up I went, even with my weight right over the bars. Amazing!

I really do like this bike. Yes, I wish it was 10 pounds lighter and had more standover, but it feels great while riding it, which is the main thing.

Maybe I should try to go tubeless - might make the front more supple?

Cheers.

Tubeless definitely helps on a fatbike, the rolling resistance improves and the weight drops by a pound per wheel if you don't have to use dodgy methods to install it such as split tubes etc.
If you deflate you tyre and it's stuck to the rim you're normally OK. If it comes away easily tubeless may be a struggle. Tubeless tyre/rim combos lock together so it's often a struggle to remove your tyre and you'll need to stand on the sidewall to remove it! Then some tweeks tape and stans and you're good to go.

root-n-5th, sounds like you're going on a similar journey to mine with my Puffin! Really fancied one, wasn't sure if it the novelty would wear off pretty quickly and it'd end up gathering dust, so I waited for one to come up 2nd hand so I could ship it on for not much loss.

Took it on more and more different rides: Well, it's fun there, and it's fun there, it's actually brilliant at that, but surely it's going to be rubbish there - actually no, it's effing great at that too!

It's not great at everything, (high speed, high precision, wheels off the ground descents - you need some compression damping to calm things down and get composed and settled for the next - the same pingy thing you're finding) but it does a lot very, very well.

Thanks for the tubeless advice. I'm not convinced the Robsson rims will be that easy as there lip is quite small. Will give it a go.

Yes, definite limitations to it. Fast, rocky descents can be a bit hang on and hope. Fun though. But, at my age, keeping the speed lower is a good thing.

I'm taking my Swift B+ out tomorrow on a well known route as want to compare. I don't remember the swift's front being so easy to loft, but I will see. At 27lbs it's a fair bit lighter though so will be interesting. The chainstays are longer too.

Root-n-5th the bouncing effect is because although the front tyre has a suspension effect it has no damping. Successive hit make the wheel bounce higher and higher & so you get less control. A suspension forks rebound damping stops this and so is more controlled.
This was the only reason i swapped to a wren fork. I can go as fast as my ability allows now without worrying about loss of control & havibg to back off

Here's something carbon:

Very nice. Mind if I ask how tall you are and what size frame that is? Looks like the 21". I'm 6'2 and my Large Cube (19" frame I think) is a little short in the top tube.

Thanks for the tubeless advice. I'm not convinced the Robsson rims will be that easy as there lip is quite small. Will give it a go.

Go ghetto split tube method, there's nothing dodgy about it.

Few tips, pack the rim out each side with a few layers of insulation tape - After the tyre is put on the wheel, put a loop of tape around the centre of the tread to pull the tyre in & push the sidewalls out into the rim. I use reinforced sellotape as it doesn't stretch very much, which helps with popping the bead on the rim as the tyre won't expands upwards as much which forces the sidewalls to push out as you inflate it. Basically, the tyre will pop onto the bead at a lower PSI than it normally would, less chance of it blowing off the rim too, which is a good thing !

Very nice. Mind if I ask how tall you are and what size frame that is? Looks like the 21". I'm 6'2 and my Large Cube (19" frame I think) is a little short in the top tube.

Another update for anybody who cares.

Took the Swift single speed out today for 15 miles around Burgh Heath, Headley Heath and Box Hill. Know the route pretty well, but can never find Life on Mars - think I found it once, but seemed to go the wrong way.

Swift in B-plus, single speed mode with 3" Trax Fatty tyres. Pre-conceptions were that it would feel super light, chuckable, fast. Initially it felt small - it's a large as opposed to the XL Puffin. I have swapped form an 80mm stem to a 60mm but gone from 660 to 740 bars. I got used to it but I think I feel more comfortable on the XL.

Frame has the lovely springy, steel feel as the tubes are thinner than the Puffins, and the tyres take the edge off the sharp edges.

It does feel lighter up the hills, and the Strava times confirm this by a few seconds. Trails were drier than when I was on the Puffin though.

However, I've been left a bit disappointed. It feels very twitchy and a bit skittish to be honest. I had to pick my line a lot more than on the fat bike, as rocks and lumps threw it off line. Coming down the byway to Juniper Hall I remember the Puffin taking it in its stride - the Swift required care as there are loads of routs and rocks.

I wanted a fast start up the Box Hill bridleway to the top, so got some speed up, lent in to take the entrance at the bottom of Zig Zag, hit some gravel and the front washed out super quick. Left leg out, managed to catch it before dropping it, but the quick, skittish handling almost caught me out. In the single track bits I felt a bit tentative chucking it around too.

Down the gulley where I let the Puffin go, I didn't have the confidence and used the brakes.

Also, as I remember, the Swift seems really hard to wheelie. You have to get your weight right back and then the balance point is such a small sweet spot that it's no fun. I can't really wheelie, or manual, but I find the puffin so much easier to loft the front end on, and I can seem to balance a lot longer. IT becomes a bit tiresome on the Swift.

As for getting air, the Swift just doesn't seem to want to leave the ground, but the Puffin has a magnetic attraction to every lump and root, begging to get airborne.

Overall, I'm surprised. How can something that weighs so much it has its own gravity, with wheels of a rotating mass akin to a steam engine's flywheel, be more playful and fun than a fairly lightweight, springy whippet machine?

The Swift is a lovely ride, but perhaps suited to XC, long distance. The Puffin can do the distance, but is just a blast to ride everywhere and inspires confidence, where the Swift feels a bit twitchy.

I think perhaps I'm a fan of contemporary geometry - slack head angle, short chain stays, long front-centre, short stem. Maybe the hype is right?

The Swift is such a pretty bike, but I think I would choose to ride the fat bike over it now. Maybe the new Swift, with the slacker HA is better, or the Stooge?

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