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Spent a few minutes looking over Fiona Kolbinger's strava this morning, and the whole thing is totally remarkable. I can't say it's surprising after looking at some of the rides she's been doing and I don't really understand how some of the things are humanly possible. Makes me feel even more weak and pathetic.
Take for example this ride posted on strava in June:
30km/ph moving average with over 7000m of climbing, multiple QOM records, a fastest speed of 80kmph...
Quite bonkers considering the Tour De France averages 40km/ph with a big peloton, they are pro cyclists and over much shorter stages.
Chapeau to you Fiona. You are quite some athlete.
Just for those who are wondering who Fiona Kolbinger is: she won this year's edition of the Transcontinental Race across Europe. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/49248126
How is that possible? The men's world record for 24 hrs is 940 km on a velodrome.
She's managed 672 outside, in 22 hrs, with hills!
How is that possible? The men’s world record for 24 hrs is 940 km on a velodrome.
She’s managed 672 outside, in 22 hrs, with hills!
Indeed. And the women's indoor track 24hr record is 782km (outdoor 717km). Climbing on that route was the equivalent of going up and down Ben Nevis 5 times. It is very sad but burned by the sins of the fathers my first reaction to this story of a 24yr old medical student knocking these performances out is.....not normal.
Is there not a school of thought that women are better equipped physically to deal with endurance events? Was talked about at length in the book 'born to run'.
what about this lady also amanda coker https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Coker over 85,000 miles ridden in a year world record. mindblowing 🚴 edit make that over 86,000 miles and 10,000 miles more than mens record.
How is that possible? The men’s world record for 24 hrs is 940 km on a velodrome.
Strava is "moving time" - she might have had 4 hours of breaks in that time 🙂
Looking at the comments on the ride, she had some cake at about km 570. That's about all my schoolboy German can make out...
From the linked Strava activity:
Elapsed Time 27:35:05
From the linked Strava activity:
Elapsed Time 27:35:05
Ta - can't see that on mobile (or I don't know where to look).
Incredible achievement. I wonder what's next - Race Across America?
Incredible achievement. I wonder what’s next – Race Across America?
She's doing Paris-Brest-Paris audax next week. Just to add another 1200km to the month's total!
Quite bonkers considering the Tour De France averages 40km/ph with a big peloton, they are pro cyclists and over much shorter stages.
30km/h to 40km/h is a substantial difference in average speed, and you're comparing apples with oranges if you try to measure an endurance event against a competitive road race. Long distance endurance events are about how long you can maintain a steady, sub-maximal effort, and how little sleep you can get away with. Road racing demands a huge range in physical effort, including extended sessions at threshold and multiple efforts beyond your sustainable threshold. Recovering from those efforts and repeating them adds a whole new dimension to the basic demands of riding fast over long distances. The peak speeds and power/weight demands will comfortably exceed solo endurance riding, and then you have to consider the tactical and mental demands of the race itself. Sitting in a big peloton is not easy, it's just faster! There are lots of very good endurance riders who wouldn't make it out of the neutralised zone in the bunch, in a road race.
Having said all that, Kolbinger’s win is a very impressive solo long distance ride. The 672km Strava ride in 22 hours is a big effort. By way of comparison, the 1200km PBP Audax record was broken last edition by Bjorn Lenhard (who scratched early in the TransCon with saddle sores) in a time of 42 hours 26 minutes, another result that surprised people because he was relatively unknown. Apparently he trains with Kolbinger. It will be interesting to see what she does at PBP.
It is very sad but burned by the sins of the fathers my first reaction to this story of a 24yr old medical student knocking these performances out is…..not normal.
27.5hrs elapsed, nah - that's simply fast, by any long-distance standards. First finish in the TINAT 600 (11,000m+ and 5 off-road sections) last year was just under 30hrs.
kcr - I agree. My 40 to 30km/ph comparison was silly, but being in a peloton makes things much much easier especially on flat sections.
Jimdubleyou - regardless of 27/22 hours, I'm nots sure if 5 hours recovery along the road (considering the hills and greater air resistance and rolling resistance) make such a difference.
It suggests that she went faster than the world record holder for the outdoor velodrome!
Velodrome is flat = constant work.
If you've got a long downhill after a sharp uphill you can be descending at 50-60 km for ages and recover loads.
Velodrome is flat = constant work.
If you’ve got a long downhill after a sharp uphill you can be descending at 50-60 km for ages and recover loads.
🙂
Ah, that's why the world's top testers (time trail specialists) search out really hilly courses to make them faster........oh, no they don't they look for pan flat drag strips. Curse that boring physics and its exponential wind resistance and work done formula!
🙂
Ah, that’s why the world’s top testers (time trail specialists) search out really hilly courses to make them faster……..oh, no they don’t they look for pan flat drag strips. Curse that boring physics and its exponential wind resistance and work done formula!
I can't work it out through the sarcasm - are you saying riding the velodrome in semi controlled conditions for 24 hours is a valid comparison to riding up and down hills for an the same period or not?
I genuinely have no idea, but it seems (to a non-sports scientist) that those two things are not really comparable.
A velodrome is very much the perfect riding location. Consistent effort on a flat surface is as good as it gets. Riding up a hill then down again, or into a headwind then turning around and with the wind behind you will always be harder than riding with no hill or no wind. Velodromes also have ideal conditions with minimised rolling friction, no wasted energy through braking ever and tend to be ridden on bikes setup for the bike and rider to be very aerodynamic (easily shaving 30% off the energy used at a given speed over a normal road bike and riding position). All because physics. The hour record in a velodrome will always be better than the very best outdoor effort on the roads by some margin (unless the course was all downhill of course). Distances achieved on the track will be the very pinnacle of human capability.
Sorry for the sarcasm - it was just a daft assumption 🙂
Didn't someone break the 24hr tt record the other day, 544 miles if I remember correctly, what remarkable machines bikes & riders are 👍
So if your course was stacked with 60-70% downhill, you'd potentially get back some of the aero gains and be able to get closer to the velodrome standard - that's what I was trying to get at.
And doing some basic maths, she's doing 30(ish)% less distance in 24 hours than the male velodrome record and 15% less than the (wikipedia sourced) female 24 hour record.
Is that really that "suspect"?
Other than suspecting she's an absolute cycling machine obviously...
...but being in a peloton makes things much much easier especially on flat sections...
I wouldn't equate "reducing wind resistance" with "easier". Speaking from experience, racing in a competitive bunch on the flat is a lot faster than rolling along at a steady pace on your own, but it's not easier. The major point that is not addressed in your linked study is that a bunch is an incredibly dynamic environment. Sitting in the middle zone will save you lots of energy, but there are 150 riders who all want to be there, so riders are continually fighting to maintain their positions and react to the demands of terrain, weather and race moves.
It is very sad but burned by the sins of the fathers my first reaction to this story of a 24yr old medical student knocking these performances out is…..not normal.
That is incredibly sad. Especially as the logic that you have used to reach that conclusion seems to be flawed.
Did the forum go this deep into the numbers inherently involved in winning the TCR for any of the last six years when blokes won it? 🙂
So if your course was stacked with 60-70% downhill, you’d potentially get back some of the aero gains and be able to get closer to the velodrome standard – that’s what I was trying to get at.
Not even close. Think it through - if the route is altitude neutral (you start and finish at the same altitude) and 70% of the route was downhill and steep enough to do the 50-60kph you propose can you imagine how steep the preceding incline would have had to be over the earlier 30% of the course for you to gain the altitude to have the proposed descent. And how much time it would take you to get up it. I suspect it would be impossible to ride up.
!5% difference to perfect condition on a track, on a track bike compared to riding on the road on a route with 7100m of ascent indicated either that the track record holder was barely average in capability and she is phenomenal, or it's not without question. A medical student remember......one of the main ways they get caught is something going wrong in the supply line - a bit easier if it's all one person.
Especially as the logic that you have used to reach that conclusion seems to be flawed.
care to explain?
Did the forum go this deep into the numbers inherently involved in winning the TCR for any of the last six years when blokes won it?
Very true - but then again I've havn't the first clue who they are as they didn't make the front page of every news outlet.
Velodrome is flat = constant work. If you’ve got a long downhill after a sharp uphill you can be descending at 50-60 km for ages and recover loads.
Go and do 40km in a velodrome in 90 minutes. That's a nice gentle 27km/h spin. Now go and do Ventoux up and down, also 40km, in 90 minutes. You'll probably vomit 😉
7000m climbing is fairly flat over the thick end of 700km. 10m/km.
what about this lady also amanda coker
From what I remember she chose a very flat, very sheltered 10 mile loop and rode round it repeatedly for a year or so.. so although it was outdoors, it was as close to velodrome conditions.. smart riding, but possibly not in the spirit of previous record holders.
7000m climbing is fairly flat over the thick end of 700km. 10m/km.
It's not massive but the profile is not consistent with some lumpy bits. If it was though - 50% up, 50% down. That would be an incline of 2% for 350km. That'd hurt!
Very true – but then again I’ve havn’t the first clue who they are as they didn’t make the front page of every news outlet.
Then why would your first comment on her performance be to imply she was doping?
On the 670km ride in question, it looks like she was riding with 3 other people. Is it just her ride we are suspicious of, or are the others suspicious too? Times were similar.
I know someone who does a lot of long audax. His longest logged ride is 630km, in a riding time of 25.55. Knowing how he rides, 670km in 22.20 by somebody who's just won the TCR seems perfectly believable to me.
would your first response to those results be to imply the same?
Probably. It's been a thing. I know folk in the business who work for companies that have sponsored/supported events and riders and there has always been a bit of a don't ask don't tell attitude. Nothing formal as it's not the same environment but whirls of suspicion have always surrounded ultra athletes.
One of our clubs / Assos ladies is doing the LEL and coached by Dean Downing has been doing massive rides all over the UK, including a 600k ride even she was surprised at.
I went to a talk with one of the famous blokes who did this thing all the time (can't think of his name) and he said that 100k/100m is all a myth - we set our minds to that distance and see it as an achievement, but actually as long as you eat, sleep and hydrate properly 200m a day pootling along is easily achievable of you forget about distance and just get on with it - he called it "just cycling".
Nothing formal as it’s not the same environment but whirls of suspicion have always surrounded ultra athletes.
How do you feel about Lachlan Morton's performance at the GBDuro?
A medical student remember……one of the main ways they get caught is something going wrong in the supply line – a bit easier if it’s all one person.
A medical student.
Not a Doctor or a Pharmacist or suchlike.
A medical student. Who works in a research centre.
Do you honestly think that she's got access to huge supplies of EPO or something like that?
Were you equally suspicious last year when James Hayden won in under nine days and beat his nearest competitor by over 24 hours or does it not count when it's a man who you might have heard of that won the race rather than a woman you've never heard of?
How do you feel about Lachlan Morton’s performance at the GBDuro?
You'd have to tell me who Lachlan Morton is and what the GBDuro is.
Were you equally suspicious last year when James Hayden won
Who is James Hayden? Was not remotely suspicious because his exploits were not brought to my attention.
You’d have to tell me would Lachlan Morton is and what the GBDuro is.
https://www.efprocycling.com/gbduro/
Pro rider, racing from Lands End to John O'Groats
https://www.efprocycling.com/gbduro/ < Pro rider, racing from Lands End to John O’Groats
Ok - 2000Km in 7 days, riding nearly 15hrs a day with a moving speed of circa 20kmh. Impressive. As I havn't got a scooby about the nature of the terrain (other than common sense) and how gnarr it was I can't see why it would be considered remotely sus. Bonkers, yes, but doable for the right athlete.
GBDuro was about 50/50 road/gravel, maybe a few percentage points either way.
The TCR is more like 90/10 in favour of road. A few mandatory gravel sections were put in this year but apart from those it's up to the competitor to choose which route they wish to ride to get between checkpoints.
Youse had me at "Transcontinental Race across Europe". Impressive, regardless of speeds! 😆
convert
You’d have to tell me who Lachlan Morton is and what the GBDuro is.
Who is James Hayden? Was not remotely suspicious because his exploits were not brought to my attention.
person who has no idea of the subject nevertheless feels free to offer their learned opinion
Think some of you are missing the point here. Fiona’s speed is nowhere near velodrome or TT records. The trick in one of these rides is to keep going day after day with very little sleep. If you average 15mph but keep cycling 22 hours a day you will be at the sharp end of the race.
A club mate of mine is doing it. He is a very strong rider but still has 700k to go. The winner isn’t as strong a cyclist as him. The difference is he has decided to cycle 200miles a day and sleep at night in a bed.
Noticed one of the guys nearing the finish now has been cycling constantly for the past 30 hours.