[Closed] Filtering up the inside of stationary traffic - is it legal?

Ive never seen that it says you cannot.

It does say that Motorcyclists can filter when safe to do so.

Where are cycle lanes painted.....? 🙄

but is there anything in the Highway Code?

Not as far as I know. It's safer filtering on the outside of cars IMO though.

[quote=simondbarnes ]
Not as far as I know. It's safer filtering on the outside of cars IMO though.
Isn't that commonly known as "overtaking"? 🙂

You're right though - I prefer to pass on the outside where possible. It does mean having to be aware of lights changing and traffic moving off so you can nip back in line if required.

I believe there is reference to not filtering on the inside of vehicles indicating left.

Simple answer, no, there's no rule against it. However, if you get knocked off, the fact that you were filtering may be argued to reduce any claim that you make against the driver.

You've not broken any specific laws but it can have an impact in a civil claim.

I used to be a motorcycle instructor and used to work writing traffic regulation orders for a local authority. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I know a bit on the subject.

Ultimately you're overtaking.

"only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so"

From here: https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/overtaking-162-to-169

Cycle lanes / specialist markings aside, you're a vehicle like any other and the same rules apply...

Good so it's not 'undertaking' and therefore wrong so that argument is flawed. But the air of dissaproval on the subject emenating from my left is still very uncomfortable.

I'm comuting again in and out of London following a lay off to mend a broken arm (not road riding) and am pretty concerned about filtering too much, especially larger vehicles and more especially close to the front of the queue. What is legal and what is advisable are two different things.

72 is the rule relating to not filtering past traffic indicating or slowing down to turn left.

211 is a rule reminding drivers to look out for cyclists and motorcyclists on the inside of traffic you are turning across. This also refers to cyclists filtering and overtaking, clearly defining the two as separate things. What isn't clear is whether filtering applies only to multi lane traffic.

I ride regularly in London and I only ever filter on the left if the traffic is totally stationary and no chance of anything moving - which is rarely.
As per SimonDBarnes ^^ I think overtaking on the right is safer. As a driver I know I look in my right hand mirror far more than I look in the left - I think drivers have a better chance of seeing me if I'm on their right

Wonder if this will go on as long as the last thread..

I was speaking to my brother in law who is a lawyer. He has said that the highway code is really for [i]motorized[/i] road users and for cyclists excluding motorcyclists its there pretty much as a guideline and could be argued successfully in court.
I asked him if he wanted to give it a try.
He didnt 😆

[quote=dyna-ti ]I was speaking to my brother in law who is a lawyer. Obviously not a very good one.

I think it's ok legally but I rarely do it. As above if there's a lot of stationary traffic then I use the right. If its just a brief stop at lights say with a few vehicles in front I will just wait my turn in the queue.

Filtering isn't the same as overtaking on the inside. Filtering is perfectly legal, however may not always be safe. However it is not legal to pass the first car waiting at the lights, nor go beyond the solid white line. (ASLs and feeder lanes being different... but horrible things.)

It doesn't seem to matter which side you filter, the very act of overtaking stationary cars seems to totally enrage some drivers. After working my way to the front of the queue the other night, one guy overtook me so fast I genuinely thought he was going to pile straight into the back of the next queue of traffic. Needless to say, I overtook him...again.

I also had a young lady in a Ford Ka join me in the cycle box at a set of traffic lights. Needles to say, she was first away at the start of the Commuter Grand Prix.

Save yourself a load of grief and tell her she`s right!!!

usually wait in the line of traffic as not in a rush and it makes you look less like an impatient arsehole

usually wait in the line of traffic as not in a rush and it makes you look less like an impatient arsehole

Impatience would be cutting people up, jumping red lights etc. Nothing wrong with filtering if there is space and it is safe to do so. Why make the queue longer than it needs to be?

What is legal and what is advisable are two different things

+1.

Filtering on the left in single lane traffic generally involves squeezing down the gutter, over drain covers etc, in a space where motorists are even less likely to see you than if you are overtaking on the right.

I favour 'leapfrogging' in stationary/slow traffic - pull out onto the over side of the road when it's clear, pull back in for oncoming traffic, repeat.

"[i]Why make the queue longer than it needs to be?[/i]"

Because sitting behind a car/lorry rather than alongside it is much safer. Partly because you're clearly visible but also because you have control over your positioning when the traffic moves off. We all know it's unsafe for cars to pass bicycles within the same lane, so why sit alongside a car and make that an inevitability?

Personally I only filter if it's actually going to save me time - if I know I'll get through on the next phase of lights then I generally don't bother. (Though on routes with very high density of traffic lights things pan out a little differently.)

Because sitting behind a car/lorry rather than alongside it is much safer. Partly because you're clearly visible but also because you have control over your positioning when the traffic moves off. We all know it's unsafe for cars to pass bicycles within the same lane, so why sit alongside a car and make that an inevitability?

Personally I only filter if it's actually going to save me time - if I know I'll get through on the next phase of lights then I generally don't bother. (Though on routes with very high density of traffic lights things pan out a little differently.)

In which case you're not making the queue longer than necessary, because it would be unsafe to filter.

I do the same as you - filter when I know it's safe to do so and will save me time.

I will just wait my turn in the queue.

usually wait in the line of traffic as not in a rush and it makes you look less like an impatient arsehole

One of the reasons I like riding to work is that i can do it in two thirds of the time. 🙂

EDIT: This sums it up for me:

Personally I only filter if it's actually going to save me time

This:

It doesn't seem to matter which side you filter, the very act of overtaking stationary cars seems to totally enrage some drivers.

Plus this:

However, sitting in queues when it's perfectly safe to filter is a complete waste of time IMHO. One of the reasons I like riding to work is that i can do it in two thirds of the time.

Is why we had the argument.

"[i]It doesn't seem to matter which side you filter, the very act of overtaking stationary cars seems to totally enrage some drivers.[/i]"

Well, being on a bicycle will enrage some drivers, so, whatever... But IME (from both sides of the fence) a cyclist is a little more likely to be [i]seen[/i] by a driver if they're passing to the outside.

Dyno lights help, I think. Whenever I'm rolling I'm shining, and I think a little twinkle in the offside door mirror can catch the eye, whereas the nearside mirror is too far from the driver's main field of view to have the same effect. (I'm hypothesising/pontificating, but it's a theory I've got a little confidence in.)

Passing to the outside also makes it more obvious to the cyclist that it's only really safe to do so if you know you can can find a place to return into the queue [i]before[/i] the traffic starts to move. The same is really true of passing on the inside.

Are cars allowed to filter on the inside? Was in a line of traffic yesterday stopped at lights, with a row of three or four empty parking spaces on my left when the car a couple behind me swooped off the left and drove through the spaces to the front most.
I had my indicator on to grab a space as the line moved off, nearly drove into the side of him.

Here's another one. I was overtaken in a 40 zone earlier and the guy pulled right tight into the kerb up ahead after passing me (lights changed to red) so I ended up 'filtering' past stationary cars to their right and then pulling back in front of the car that pulled tight into the kerb. I am 100% sure he did it on purpose so I wouldn't be slowing him down over the next piece of road.

Anyways, he sounded the horn as I rolled in front of his stationary car. I'm still not sure if I'm in the right. If everything was moving then it's obviously a dangerous illegal move but is there any problem with this?

At the next roundabout I shoulder checked, indicated and positioned myself on the right side of the road and we had words. He called me a maniac and I told him that I was filtering stationary traffic (didn't mention that he burnt past me and drew to a halt nearly tearing his rims on the kerb)

Any laws on this at all?

People do that all the time on my commute, see you coming behind, then they pull right over tight to the kerb. Twunts.

I've never thought about why, but cyclists moving to the front of a stationary line of traffic is usually extremely irritating, and that's coming from a cyclist. Anyone who claims that they're unaware that this is the general feeling of drivers isn't trying to see the drivers point of view too much.

I'm not commentating on whether its legal, or safe. Just that I don't think there is any argument that, rightly or wrongly, it is very irritating to car drivers.

The boxes for bikes at lights, they have a often have a little extended bit on the far left. Looks like it's there so you can filter up the left, where you enter the box, then position yourself where you need to be within the box.

And yeah, people deliberately block off the filtering space all the same. If there's no one on the pavement I just bunny hop up the kerb and pass them that way. But I know that won't make me popular with anyone...

irritating because the driver feels superior is that it ?

the roads i use for my commute have the cycle lanes up the inside - ive had people actually move into the cycle lane as im come up to block me off... i have no time for cocks like that , they get both barrels as i go up the RHS

if the roads not got a cycle lane and its stationary traffic (which in aberdeen can generally be queues of miles - esp dyce at night) ill go up the RHS before i go anywhere near the LHS.

I've never thought about why, but cyclists moving to the front of a stationary line of traffic is usually extremely irritating

If you look at the road infrastructure e.g.cycle lanes, they're on the inside of the traffic, and bike boxes are at the front of where the stationary traffic sits.

Surely this suggests that cyclists are expected/encouraged to filter to the front, and past the stationary traffic don't you think?

People in cars may well find it irritating but that might simply be because they're ignorant of the way the road has been designed, or lack empathy with other road users, rather than being justified in their irritation... maybe they need to grow up a little rather than getting angry at other road users...

IME as a driver, the only reason a cyclist filtering is at all a problem for me is I'm stuck going nowhere in a cloud of other peoples' carbon monoxide! I suspect that might be the source of the irritation...

it is very irritating to car drivers.

Poor wee lambs are so important that sitting for a few seconds behind a cyclist will ruin their day 🙁

He wasn't impressed with me using the door of his A3 to balance on while I told him that I was filtering stationary traffic. The keys were just a reach away too. Could have swiped them and placed them on a bollard in his sight :O)

Interesting debate

I cycled in traffic for the first time in ages yesterday. I'd forgotten how much I hate squeezing down the inside. I always thought it was naughty but it seems that its not.

I'm sure that cyclist moving to the front in queues is the intention hence the boxes at the front. the thinking being that its safest for all if the bike is in site. The had a interesting section on the cycle show about this

many of the ASL seen on the UK roads seem to indicate that filtering on the left is correct procedure?

[img] [/img]

of course this is the reality of the ASL in the UK

[img] [/img]

As both a cyclist and a driver, it still royally riles me when a cyclist squeezes ahead at a junction, then grinds off at the pace of a tortoise ensuring that all the the cars hes just jumped past are stuck behind him.

As both a cyclist and a driver, it still royally riles me when a cyclist squeezes ahead at a junction, then grinds off at the pace of a tortoise ensuring that all the the cars hes just jumped past are stuck behind him.

+1 to that.
As Bez says, I only filter when I know the lights are on red for a bit and it's not a clear empty road ahead.

Otherwise, all those people that overtook me before the lights are going to want to overtake me again immediately and every overtake is an opportunity for me to be killed - whether by someone irate at being held up for 3 seconds or by someone absent-mindedly fiddling with the satnav while on the phone - doesn't really matter.

Of course, in busy traffic it makes no odds, I'm as fast or faster than the cars so I'll filter up whichever side is safest at that moment.

Legal
Location of marked cycle lanes
Location of lead in lanes for ASLs (are you supposed to jump from outside to inside at the point they start?)
Location of bus lanes which are legal for cycle use
Location of "cycle superhighway" markings
In London I'd say its actually where motorists do expect you to be because of the above, and where I've been shouted that I should be when I take the lane.

As above - in busy traffic(which it always is in London) you are as fast or faster than the cars and filter on whichever side is safest, which varies by section of road. On much of my commute filtering outside is riskier as I'm likely to meet traffic coming the other way before I reach the front of the queue without anywhere to pull in.

You make quick risk assessments all the time riding offroad - at present riding in the UK on road requires the same. No rigidly applied rule is going to help you.

I filter on whichever side has the most room. But then i guess they are more likely to see you in the right in their mirror. Plus if theres 2 way traffic i'd rather get pushed into the curb than an on coming car.

Speaking as a driver, I don't get irritated when cyclists pass me.

As a cyclist I don't get irritated when drivers overtake me.

If drivers think they should never be overtaken by a bike then surely it's only fair that they never overtake bikes. Either faster traffic can overtake when safe and legal to do so, or it can't.

Back to the OP

stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left

None of these rules matter when you have to deal with the type of driver I encounted today. Cycling in the right hand land (which is right turn only) approaching traffic lights in the primary position, lights on red, one car waiting in front of me. Knowing the phasing, I ease up so as not having to unclip, when the driver behind me (think Emma Way) gives me a blast of the horn. When I enquired as to the purpose of this, she asked why was I cycling in the middle of the road. I really don't know where she expected me to be, presumably between the two lines of traffic on a narrow piece of carriageway where both lanes swing right before separating, so not a very safe place to be. She continued to blast her horn after the lights changed. If anyone can explain why she was upset when I was taking up less space than a car and can accelerate across the short junction just as quick as most calm drivers, then let me know. Apologies for the rambling post.

The mind boggles......

I'd have given her a simple "Because I am a road user and I am entitled to this much space, I will not allow myself to be overtaken at junctions or traffic light or in similar places where someone squeezing past me will endanger my life."

Or the classic [when somebody squeezes past you and you talk to them about it] "Oh I'm so sorry - you're a Doctor or undercover Policeman/woman aren't you. No? Then obey the highway code and get the frack outta my lane before you kill someone you selfish git"

[i]I've never thought about why, but cyclists moving to the front of a stationary line of traffic is usually extremely irritating[/i]

Not for me it isn't. People are stuck in a queue of cars, not bikes. They may take their anger out on the cyclist who does this (and I've certainly been the brunt of this on many occassion), but they're irritaed because a load of cars are holding them up.

What probably *is* extremely irritating is the cyclist pointing this out when they have a go at him. 😉

On a bike though I will only ever filter down the right of traffic and only then if I can see a significant time saving, i.e. the queue is large and the lights are a long distance away. Filtering to the front when I'm going to get through on the next phase anyway would be pointless.

As would be sitting in stationary traffic when I can reduce the queue length and help everyone out.

http://thecyclingsolicitor.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/the-legal-position-where-cyclist-is.html

http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/

Just that I don't think there is any argument that, rightly or wrongly, it is very irritating to car drivers.

Tough tits. It's their choice to be sitting in a vehicle that is too wide to get through.

As both a cyclist and a driver, it still royally riles me when a cyclist squeezes ahead at a junction, then grinds off at the pace of a tortoise ensuring that all the the cars hes just jumped past are stuck behind him.

Again, tough tits to the drivers. It's safest for the cyclist to be at the front, and hence visible to them. If drivers had a better track record of not blindly hooking and killing cyclists sharing a queue with them, it'd be less tough tits, but for now, tough tits.

As a cyclist it's highly irritating being held up by masses of slow moving or stationary traffic - overlarge vehicles, usually with a single occupant, occupying excessive amounts of space.

http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/

"safe and [u]enjoyable[/u]" cycling. Hmm. What advice does it have for Joat above? SafER, with our current inadequate infrastructure, but rarely enjoyable

If drivers think they should never be overtaken by a bike then surely it's only fair that they never overtake bikes.

right or left whichever side is safest (and normally easiest) obviously paying attention to my place in the traffic and when traffic is going to start moving again especially around longer dangerous vehicles like HGVs and bendy buses.

However more and more I'm thinking ASLs are bloody stupid tho. Instead of sticking an ASL in a junction that you need to "take primary" in order to negotiate the junction safely, [i]just build a safe junction[/i] you muppets!

Again, tough tits to the drivers. It's safest for the cyclist to be at the front, and hence visible to them. If drivers had a better track record of not blindly hooking and killing cyclists sharing a queue with them, it'd be less tough tits, but for now, tough tits.

Hmm. Not sure about this. Not the tough tits bit, the safety bit.
Deaths a junctions seem to often involve cyclists that have filtered up the left in an attempt to be a the front and not been noticed.
If you're sat in the middle of a lane owning it. You'll have arrived there at the same time as all the vehicles around you and stay in the same location, the odds (in my experience) seem far better stacked that they will have seen you. Also, and I'm talking more about places were there's fast moving traffic and few junctions. The dozen cars you could just filter past are a dozen cars that are going to overtake you immediately afterwards, and that's a dozen more potential times for something to go wrong.

If you're sat in the middle of a lane owning it

The dozen cars you could just filter past are a dozen cars that are going to overtake you

I think a sensible judgement can be made sometimes, that filtering in a particular circumstance is not the best thing to do, but that's a safety decision primarily.

But staying in queues of traffic rather than filtering, just in case you annoy drivers, would be daft. Those queues and even those traffic lights are there because of motor traffic. You wouldn't have to stop at so many reds if cars weren't there because there'd be a tiny fraction of the amount of traffic signals needed. And if their vehicle is too wide to filter as well (i.e. if it *is* the queue), then that's their problem.

Filtering up the left is legal but I'm vary wary of it. Drivers just aren't as aware of what's on their left and passengers have no idea, if you go up the left be wary of people getting out of the car and left turners.

I wouldn't be surpried if some of the car drivers that pull right over to the curb are letting you round the outside, if there is a bike (motorised or pedal powered) behind me in a queue I always pull to the left if they're in the middle of the lane to give them a safe route up the middle. Some of them are bound to be cocks though.

My advise is the best way to filter is up the middle if possible, and only if it's safe. No point racing to the front of every set of lights if the same people are going to have to get straight back past, it'll just piss them off and you'll have more chance of getting run over.

And never, ever, ever, ever, ever wait infront of the back of a big vehicle, and only wait infront of it if you know for sure the driver can see you, give them a nod or something to check.

As both a cyclist and a driver, it still royally riles me when a cyclist squeezes ahead at a junction, then grinds off at the pace of a tortoise ensuring that all the the cars hes just jumped past are stuck behind him.

As both a cyclist and a driver, it still royally riles me when a motorist squeezes past, then stops in a queue of traffic twenty yards ahead, ensuring that all the the cyclists he's just squeezed past are stuck behind him or have to filter up the inside.

(Not read all that, but...)

Round here, when cars are queuing they seem to sit a couple of feet to the left of the centre line on the road, rather than a couple of feet from the kerb. On main roads, that means a car-width gap to their left, or oncoming traffic to their right. I filter (sensibly and carefully) down the left.

(Apart from on one road where the phasing of the lights means that I can safely ride down the 'wrong' side of the road past the queue of traffic.)

As both a cyclist and a driver, it still royally riles me when a motorist squeezes past, then stops in a queue of traffic twenty yards ahead, ensuring that all the the cyclists he's just squeezed past are stuck behind him or have to filter up the inside.

This! 😀

Anyway, if the driver is there to be filtered past, they're causing congestion and they're in the bloody way.

Molgrips, is that you??

Hehe.. I do filter down the left (if there's room) or the right if I'm turning right. But ONLY when the traffic's stationary. If it starts to move, this is a RED FLAG danger situation imo, and I put myself in the primary position in the lane immediately. Then I use my awesome power to stay there until I'm through the junction or the car ahead has pulled away and I'm starting to hold up the driver behind.

Apparently, it's not in the HC but it is in the Cyclecraft handbook published by TSO so I suppose that makes it semi-official.

I used to know a chap who'd wait in traffic queues on his bike. It took him forever to get anywhere, since he had the disadvantage of being slow moving but didn't take back any time in queues.

I used to know a chap who'd wait in traffic queues on his bike.

Doesn't really help anyone, that. You just push the back of the traffic queue further back and contribute to junctions behind being more clogged.

Someone said the other week "Sitting in a car and moaning about traffic is like strapping a plank to your arse and moaning about doorways".

You shouldn't get angry if someone else, who didn't strap a plank to their arse, can get through the doorway and you can't.

Look what we got in Scotland :

[img] [/img]

This is part of the Nice Way Code Government "mutual respect" campaign. They got so much stick about this that they had to publish a page of "clarification" about what the sign was supposed to mean.

I was very disappointed they didn't print the whole clarification on the back of the bus.

I saw some of the other stuff done as part of the "Nice Way Code". Absolutely appalling crap!
Have the people behind it been shot yet?

Doesn't really help anyone, that.

No I know. All the time he could have been safely filtering, he was stationary, and he only moved off when the traffic was also moving off which was more dangerous still. He then only got to the junctions when all the traffic was whizzing through at full speed, having been unable to take a safe position up front. (this was before ASLs appeared everywhere).

This is part of the Nice Way Code Government "mutual respect" campaign.

EDIT: [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/9481081094/ ]not perfect but best I could find[/url]

[url= ]here you go ormondroyd[/url]

Davis v Schrogin (2006) is a motorbike case but I think it's still the current precedent for case law- basically, if a collision occurs that the filterer couldn't avoid, it's 100% the motorist's fault, no blame split and no liability to the filterer.

Nobeerinthefridge - Member

People do that all the time on my commute, see you coming behind, then they pull right over tight to the kerb.

At which point you do a jolly loop round them, not forgetting to wave.

johnhe - Member

I've never thought about why, but cyclists moving to the front of a stationary line of traffic is usually extremely irritating, and that's coming from a cyclist. Anyone who claims that they're unaware that this is the general feeling of drivers isn't trying to see the drivers point of view too much.

I take reasonable steps not to annoy drivers. But if they want to be unreasonably annoyed they will be, the only way to avoid annoying some people is to not exist.

I don't get annoyed by cyclists passing me, kind of bewildered why any cyclist would tbh.

Having thought about it, the reason i find filtering irritating as a driver is almost certainly because I'm stuck in a queue and can't do anything about it, while bikes obviously can. I never claimed that it was right or justified, I was just trying to point out that I expect most drivers feel the same way.

Ae a cyclist to you get irritated when drivers fly by at 70mph and off into the distance?

Anyway. Don't be irritated by queues when driving. That's like going to the beach and being irritated by sand.

If you look at the road infrastructure e.g.cycle lanes, they're on the inside of the traffic, and bike boxes are at the front of where the stationary traffic sits.

Surely this suggests that cyclists are expected/encouraged to filter to the front, and past the stationary traffic don't you think?

The problem is, the designers have put lots of effort into thinking about how you can safely enter the junction, but very, very often you'll be exiting that junction into a complete clusterfnark, it doesn't matter if you have Jared Graves levels of "Snap", you're about to be overtaken, by a queue of vehicles with acceleration on their mind, and more likely than not the exit will be narrower than the ASL...

I thought filtering (on the left or right, whichever is safer) through gridlocked roads was the main advantage of cycling. Seems lunacy to wait in a que of cars on a bike... no?

I was just trying to point out that I expect most drivers feel the same way.

Well the answer is usually staring them in the face.

I think this hits the nail square on the head.

basically car drivers are NOT annoyed by cyclist par ce, they are actually annoyed that another human being has passed them, over taken them and there's nowt they can do about it. Self frustration. Its the root of much car versus bike rage.

Here in london village average car speed is 10mph and even a granny on a sit up and beg with wicker basket is quicker than this.

Yep

Most anti cycle hatred boils down to simple jealousy.

Motorists see someone using a cheap, fast and healthy mode of transport and redirect their anger at the cyclist rather than all the other traffic which is actually making them late for work.

(or without realising they're making other people late)