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Just looking at the thread on the price of carbon full sus frames, with semi interest as potentially i'll be in the market to buy something like that middle of next year. Anyway it got me thinking about features on bikes that would make you consider not purchasing a given frame when you might have looked at it before.
For me one definite no no has got to be integrated headsets. Anything that would stop you buying a frame/bike?
specific shocks a la scott genius and bionicon,
XT brakes
Actually makeit shimano brakes full stop
The names Trek/Specialized on the downtube.
*runs for cover 😉 *
what's the problem with integrated headsets? built in seat masts I don't like.
Explosion In a Spaghetti Factory - Member
The names Trek/Specialized on the downtube.*runs for cover *
You beat me to it 🙁
I also want to know what it wrong with integrated headsets? They look sleek (because you can't see them)
In simple terms they wear out quicker than regular ones. You're relying on the manufacturer creating a perfectly faced surface for the bearing & you're making one of the parts that potentially wears with the movement the frame itself.
Plus Chris King says he won't make them as he believes it's an inherently flawed design.
The name Scott or Giant on the downtube
**runs for cover**
On ones slidy dropouts put me off buying a scandal. I can see how they are a clever solution if you want to switch between SS and geared, but if you only want to run gears they're just an unecessary PIA.
The word [b]Kona[/b] or [b]On-One[/b] on the down tube
Plus Chris King says he won't make them as he believes it's an inherently flawed design.
Inherently flawed like his normal headset design?
As I understand it, with integrated headset the bearings roll against the headtube itself potentially wearing the frame, at least according to [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headset_(bicycle_part)#Integrated_headsets ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headset_(bicycle_part)#Integrated_headsets[/url].
After getting minimal chainring clearance and chainstay damage from the odd chainsuck strike and the really wide stays on my 853 Inbred I'd have to say that I'd probably avoid a frame with On-One bridgeless stays.
Plus Chris King says he won't make them as he believes it's an inherently flawed design.
CK are a pragmatic, market driven bunch and now make internal headsets as nearly all modern road bikes need them.
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Gears
Avid juicy 5 brakes. It's more hassle and trouble changing pads than anything else I've ever done.
Make that any Avid brakes, just in case.
A rear shock. I just don't like full suspension bikes anymore. Quite irrational I know. I only liked my Epic so much because it didn't look like a full bouncer but now they do and I don't like them now.
Is that CK headset integrated or internal (semi-integrated)? As I understand it integrated headsets run the bearings against the headtube whilst internal/semi-integrated headsets fit cups inside the headset.
anna banana
Just ditch the retention clip/spring on the back of the caliper. The spring/spider between the pads will hold the pads onto the raised section of the piston just fine
They are a doddle to change pads then
For me, probably certain types of suspension design put me off (depending what I wanted the bike for), something with santa cruz down the side
Carbon bikes with[b]out[/b] aluminium reinforced/insert dropouts (eg Ibis Mojo SL)
Lack of seperate rear mech hanger worries me too. I'm struggling to find a reason not to buy a soul now though
little wheels 😆
not having Giant written on the down tube :p
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intergrated headsets are no different from having pivot bearings in a frame.
also, i believe, not that common in mountain bikes.
i THINK you mean semiintegrated, where the bearings are recessing in the frame, however there are still cups that are pushed in to prevent damage to the frame.
i may be wrong though.
Semi integrated in most of my bikes, as most of them are Giants :p
I didnt buy a new Scandal because of the lack of replaceable mech hangar... Did buy a 2nd hand one with normal dropouts because it did, spent the saving on a 1 off powder coat and graphics. 🙂 Now they come in a myriad of colours 😕
The CK one is internal not integrated. It has an internal cups instead of running the bearings against the headtube. There's a big difference between the 2 designs even though they look a like.
The names Trek/Specialized on the downtube
The word Kona or On-One on the down tube
Right. That's it. FIGHT!!!!!! I'LL HAVE YOU, I'LL HAVE YOU!!!!!
We've got a Kona, a Specialized, a Trek and an On-One in the garage!
😉
Just ditch the retention clip/spring on the back of the caliper
I'll give it a go James, thanks!
I also wouldn't buy a GT after a stint in a bike shop in Cham a few years back where we were sending on average 2 a week back to the distributors. That's not even mentioning the number of mech hangers & suspension linkage parts we were replacing on a daily basis. Though i imagine they've sorted out these problems by now still wouldn't ever go near them again following that.
However this thread is about design features/specs you wouldn't buy a bike because of NOT brands.
The only thing that puts me off is stupid shock placement - anything between the wheel and seat tube is right out! I can't see why manufacturers place the shock right in the firing line of all the muck off the back wheel, it put me right off the Cube Fritz that I would probably have bought otherwise.
I now definitely take tyre/mud clearance into consideration as my current bike has little of either. I guess for XC tyres as intended it's OK, but put anything bigger than a 2.1 on and it all gets a bit tight.
Potentially bottle bosses. I am thinking of getting my Lumi battery bag swapped over to a bottle as the bag has really knackered the paint on my bike in the 2yrs I've been using it. The thought of doing the same to a brand new bike has got me thinking about getting it changed. BUT, the Zesty (on my shortlist) doesn't come with bottle bosses.....hmmmm.
Non-standard stuff that might be difficult to get hold of in the future. Not sure if this is irrelevant or not, but the Fuel EX for example; does the ABP require a non-standard QR for the rear wheel? Not sure, but if it did, it would put me off a bit.
I can't see why manufacturers place the shock right in the firing line of all the muck off the back wheel,
Ok I know that waht I am going to say may sound weird to you, but you can actually ride a bike in the dry.
No honest
Really I meant it it's true 😉
The whole "integrated headsets are a poor design because they wear out your frame" is a load of crap really. They've been used for several years now with no major issues - certainly no more than normal headsets which can (but rarely do) flare head tubes.
For me, I'd avoid a bike with proprietary shock (Scott/Bionicon as mentioned) or bikes that can't easily be serviced at home (eg Cannondale headshoks).
Re. integrated headsets; against the dire predictions of Chris King, the worlds bikeshops are not overflowing with bikes wrecked with ****ed internal headsets. I've had to fix plenty of my nephew's mates (DIY jump) bikes, and despite overlong forks, loose bearings and serious neglect, I've been surprised how robust these designs are.
I have no strong view either way- my bikes are 50/50 conventional/ integrated, but I always find it ironic that the folk that think headsets should be external, think BB's should be internal.
The bike feature that would put me off buying a bike would definately be pierced/ rivetted cablestops on aluminium frames, Its a horribly cheap, agricultural-looking way of adding stops to a frame that takes less skill or effort than welding them on properly- I hate it 👿
Juan... that's a lie! I know this as I am not sure I have ever seen this thing you call dry... other than inside. Sometimes.
Straight through gear cable guides (for full length outers) - more cable drag and don't last longer in my experience. Invariably need a newer inner cabler if you wish to clean them. I know you just use a ferrule adapter thing but still..
Under the top tube cable guides - for extra shoulder pain when carrying. Solution to a non-existent problem.
The cynic in me says that CK don't like internal headsets because there's obviously less headset on show and people who spend silly money on their headsets like to be able to show them off so will be less inclined to buy CK if they have an integrated one.
Another one here who was put off buying a Scandal sice they switched to slidy drop outs and non replaceable gear hangers.
hope br[i]ea[/i]ks - have to be shimano for me
fox forks - over priced imo
track ends - PITA big style
I'm very tempted to try one of those new internal King's in my Fuel, after 4 years of terrible, terrible bearing life from Cane Creek integrated headsets it'll be nice to have another option!
Seat mast puts me off definitely.
Actually, I've been giving this some thought and I can't come up with any feature that would definitely be a deal-breaker.
Another thing I despise- top routed cables that run down the sides of the top tube- so you flay the insides of your knees. I've never had an issue with under-the-bracket routing but if it had to be up top, at least try and get the cables out of the way.
I must admit that with last 4 MTBs I've bought I've been seriously swayed buy provision for full length cable outers. I think they really are that good.
And I wouldn't but a bike that only took 100mm forks either.
Interrupted seat tubes - ie the ones where the seat post will only go down a wee bit before bottoming out. Not handy
I know cutting the seat post kind of gets round the problem.......until your tall mate borrows your bike and puts the seat the up to his height without thinking!
No I don't think any of these things would stop me buying a bike, but it's things I don't like.
Full length outers aren't good, internally routed cables are worse IMO. Seat masts are just pointless on an MTB, and not proven to make any difference on the road.
Tyre clearance at the back, don't want full length outers, but I've got plenty of cable stops I could retrofit so that's not a deal breaker, any really weird non standard size on a part that will have to be replaced, so no B30 bottom brackets or weird headset sizes thanks. Own brand shocks or forks,
That covers it I reckon
I don't like v-brake studs on a frame using disc brakes, horrible, please one or the other,
PJ.
+1 interrupted seat tube. Been there - perfect bike in every other way but the lack of seat height adjustment was a pain in the arse, as often physically as metaphorically.