When you say a push,do you mean, you push down into the ground ie preloading the fork before the edge? or pushing out in front?
Jumps and drop offs are an essential skill sometimes to save a dismount on a trail. There's nothing shitter than having to dismount off the bike and carry it over an obstacle due to lack of skill.
I still can't do drop offs consistently. This week I saw a drop that I thought I could just roll down slowly front wheel first instead of hitting it at speed and getting both wheels to land at the same time (something which I can't pull off consistently on the trail, sometimes I get it right, sometimes I don't). Anyway I went flying over the bars and the bike hurt me really bad (the fall didn't hurt, the bike bashing me in the wrong place did)
It's hard to ride when you don't have these 2 skills up to standard, I know because I'm in that situation, but don't intend to keep it this way forever.
I really frustrate myself in this respect.
Round the Peaslake way the trails change quite frequently and if I'm on a trail and a tabletop has been turned into a double, or if someone has dug out a drop, I can hit it and clear with no issues.
If I'm aware of a jump or a drop I psychologically talk myself out of it in the run up to it.
I can hit things of a similar size with no issue on one trail, and then baulk at another. All in my head.
I think next year I'm going to do a drops and jumps course as in the Surrey Hills it's becoming a necessity!
Go and see Jedi Tony Doyle
http://littlegirlbunny.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/a-day-with-legendary-tony-doyle.html
I retired from jumping after one big crash (at 49 yo) happy with small pops, drops or tables etc. Turning up for work with a cut face and struggling to walk isn't appreciated. Most of the jumping around Surrey Hills is in trees so an offline landing can get pretty serious.
@ant77 Tony at UK Bike Skills and/or Nirvana Freeride practice
Don't ask for advice on a forum - apart from who to go and see or you'll get 100+ views on what to do. See a good experienced/qualified coach who can do what he/she preaches.
For drops I merely push the bike out in front of me and don't try and over complicate things. My reasoning is it keeps me and the bike very stable. If I'm approaching faster its quite a small push more with the arms, if its slow, a more exaggerated push via the feet to get my weight a little further backwards. A bigger downslope landing, and push the bars down to meet the landing angle. I don't go big or fast, but have enough confidence in the my technique to go off slowly while others are flying 10ft through the air.
Started going off the pavement varying the speed and found landing two wheels at the same time off just a few inches is more difficult than you think. Then moved up to the Manhole Cover Drop Of Death on top of the Licky Hills which is only 2ft or so with a slight downhill but nice landing. These days find plenty of small stuff around Swinley usually with steeper sketchy approaches and landings. There is a small drop at the end of one of the Enduro stages, again not much more than 2ft but effectively more with the down slope landing. Loads of options to take it either fast after a drop off before it, or slow with a tight corner approach.
It is Jedi who I am off to see on Thursday! Looking at his blog post he worked on someones xc skills today, I may well ask that we focus in that direction!
cheers all!
I was reasured watching the latest #lastorders that even the Pros get scared on drops.
I've not yet wanted to stop jumping, but my abilities are "very mediocre" and "developing" at best.
But I'm almost 10 years younger than you, and my first thought after breaking my wrist on a drop last year was that I will one day return and ride it.
For drops I merely push the bike out in front of me and don't try and over complicate things.
Jedi drops coaching will focus on [u]not[/u] pushing the bike out and away from you and therefore weighting over the back wheel and unweighting the front wheel. Unweighting the front too much results in you losing any actual control you have over the bike as you steer through the front (which is demoed during the session, and very clear to see when you are stood side on).
I was reasured watching the latest #lastorders that even the Pros get scared on drops.
Yup, I was watching the RedBull hardline coverage, I recall one of the riders saying when he arrived he would have been quite happy to put his bike back in the car and go home! That's the difference isnt it, they have greater self belief and self control
@phil I asked to focus on trail riding, we did a bit of drop/jumps but I didn't do the table which is generally on his course. I started doing more jumping after his course. Working on berms and general cornering was my focus (still rubbish at flat corners but I understand what I should be doing)
I always thought you did a small Bunny hop off the end?
That would be a hop off and its a common technique employed by riders who don't know how to do a drop off. Through ignorance they refer to it as a drop off and the reason you need to be careful who you take advice from.
With a proper drop off your tyres never get higher than the lip your dropping off.
My advise would be to talk to your coach. A good coach should listen and understand how you feel. Its your coaching session and so how about you tell him how you are feeling and perhaps try a drop or two (even if only a kerb) and just see how you comfy you are. I would also recommend you also have another session with different coach because they often have different ways of communicating the principals and different terrain to try that you might click with you and help you progress without getting 'the fear'. I think jumps and drops can be a bit like keeping up with the Jones's so relax and remember why you ride.
That double drop at the start of coal not dole is featured in this GMBN drop off tutorial. Worth a watch, not sure I fancy trying that nose down technique though
That's the one. Cheers. Will try to remember to report back after my next trip.
It drives me nuts seeing all these coaching videos that say "being able to manual is essential" for riding drops. It's like saying you have to be able keep a car spinning a perfect donut until you've toasted a pair of tyres or you'll be unable to drive a fast rwd car down a bendy road car without crashing.
When they say manual really they should say unweight the front for a very short amount of time, you don't have to be able to manual for a mile and a half to make a drop safely.
I'd love to stick a load of strain gauges on their bikes and prove that even when they look a bit like they're manualling they're actually doing something very different, as shown by the forces applied to the bike.
You only need to manual of a drop if you're 're carryover Ng enough speed off or. Depends on the run in. If you can carry speed you just need to ride off it and mange your weight distributuion. If you hit it slowly you need to manual.
This a good video I found the other day about how to drop offs, he makes that very point about it being different to a manual.
His jumping video is also really good, he breaks it down and explains it in a simple way.
I can't wheelie, I can't manual, I don't do jumps (at least not willingly!) And I guess I've done some drop offs.
End of the day, I do what I like and like what I do. As long as I get a ride in, I couldn't care less what it involves! I'm just happy I got a free pass from Wifey to go let off some steam! 😉 Stop the worrying, ride, and sweat all your stress out 😀
Call it a manual if you will, the theory is that if you approach a drop off you unweight the front end enough so that you ride off the lip and land it then that is a manual of sorts. OK you've not had to hold the front end up on a balancing point for an extended period of time - but that is really just show boating. The point is you unweight the front end for a split second so your speed means your rear wheel rolls off the lip of the drop. So if you've carried off a 'drop' by the definition of a step you can't just simply roll over, the you've either hit it fast or manualed off it. Either way the only measure of success is if you manage to ride over the feature without coming a cropper!
cyclelife - Member
Don't ask for advice on a forum - apart from who to go and see or you'll get 100+ views on what to do. See a good experienced/qualified coach who can do what he/she preaches.
This +1000!!
Not sure everything in here actually makes sense and in general terms you need someone to give you the feedback of what you were getting right or wrong. A camera and time are great things to have though not so much in winter.
This was a bit of an informal session and skills ride we all did, feedback from the camera and phones etc. were really useful - there was probably 350 pics from the 4 spots we rode and a heap of go pro and phone video which gave you feedback on where you were landing etc.
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Theory is one thing, practice makes perfect, the mental side is the harder one though, I still have certain drops that are probably smaller and easier than loads of others I do that don't fit right in my head.
new page thingy?
Nope, couldn't link my picture.
[quote=afanmark]This a good video I found the other day about how to drop offs, he makes that very point about it being different to a manual.
His jumping video is also really good, he breaks it down and explains it in a simple way.
That's one of the most clearly-explained and concise instructional videos on drop-offs I've seen - spot on IMO.
It's definitely a mental thing once you can do / know the basics.
I'm OK on some biggish tables / step downs but as soon as it becomes a gap, I struggle even if its smaller than another feature! I am going to work on it by building a little jump line in the garden after Christmas!
I'm less fussed by drops.
Come and visit me on your Stanton at Preston fella and I'll sort you out with some nice drops and gaps to play on 🙂
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Jedi drops coaching will focus on not pushing the bike out and away from you and therefore weighting over the back wheel and unweighting the front wheel. Unweighting the front too much results in you losing any actual control you have over the bike as you steer through the front (which is demoed during the session, and very clear to see when you are stood side on).
If you're going off a drop and don't want the front wheel to fall away doesn't it need to be fully unweighted ?
Interested in how it's coached if this isn't meant to happen.
I'm getting of decent sized drops but am juggling between pushing the bike out and using the L shape.
@Stevet1 that Preston, Lancs? If so private trails or open to the public.. ? Looks interesting.
Seem to remember that Jedi coached popping (weighting/ unweighting) off drops, jumps. Less speed required more pop. Don't know if that relates to jumps more than drops though. At the time it felt very natural. I sort of mentally visualise a ski jumper.
Yep.@Stevet1 that Preston, Lancs?
email me for more infoIf so private trails or open to the public.. ?
it looks a bit more interesting now :-), but it's still only a smallish play area not a full on DH run.Looks interesting.
Come and visit me on your Stanton at Preston fella and I'll sort you out with some nice drops and gaps to play on
That looks good fun.
Happy on tables but doubles / gaps mess with me!
Theres a slope leading into them, just let off your brakes and follow me over a few sets 🙂
I'm OK on some biggish tables / step downs but as soon as it becomes a gap, I struggle even if its smaller than another feature!I'm less fussed by drops.
You are not alone!
Don't fret about it OP, Jedi won't make you do anything you don't want to and I reckon you'll be surprised how easy it'll turn out to be.
You nosedive when your front wheel starts to fall whilst your back wheel is still on the ground.
So if you have enough pace the time that the front wheel is in the air is short enough so that your front wheel dips slowly enough that you land perfectly on the down slope. Man-made jumps are designed so that the ramp matches where they expect your wheels to be.
However I don't like just riding off drops. I strongly feel the need to unweight or 'pop' if that's what it's called, so the attitude of the bike is always under my control not simpy gravity's. This allows me to go over them far slower than simply hitting them, which feels safer to me.
I also discovered that by pulling the rear wheel up towards my bum it let my centre of mass start falling early, and I could then land earlier. When there's a big downslop this compresses everything and I end up landing earlier. Used to do this on the planks at Cwmcarn.
I am not an expert jumper of course, but I am an over-thinker. I think that people who naturally get it say stuff like 'oh just hit it you'll be fine' when those who don't naturally get it won't be.
I realised how forgiving FS bikes are when going fast around Swinley on my fully rigid bike. Re-learned the technique of adjusting attitude in the air to plant the bike neatly on the downslope. It's a great feeling when you can jump a rigid bike smoothly.
A lot of you over think. I can only think this makes you tense, and once you start your roll in you won't remember it all.
The best way to learn is to start small and build up gradually getting more comfortable.
Also riding with someone who can do what you want so you can get a tow in for a speed check is very useful
Of course. The over thinkers are the ones talking about it on forums. The ones who do it naturally are the ones who have less fear and hence don't need coaches or thinking.
The ones who are "natural" usually can't describe what they do, so they're not worth listening to. Someone who has analysed how to do it correctly is far more worthy of your attention.
I agree to an extent, I was stating the obvious. There is some useful advice we can impart on here. but going into detail is probably the least useful. Key pieces of info such as 'stay relaxed' etc are about it.
The best advice is to get one to one coaching as its the most effective and quick learning route. Youtube is ok. We could write down the technique but when anyone tries to put it in to practice its probably long forgotten.
If you don't want coaching or just want to hit gaps at your local.
then starting small and build up, building confidence and technique naturally. Your body will learn what does and doesn't work in relative safety of smaller jumps.
The 'natural' ones don't have any particularly special skill - well, not all of them. They just start off without worrying too much about crashing 🙂
Starting young helps.
