A friend hired a road bike for the triathalon season, I didnt think it was the best deal but she could not afford to buy one.
As the 'season' has ended, its gone back, she got the below email this morning with the following charges applied. The costs seems a bit excessive to me especially the paint chips which feel like they should be just part of normal wear and tear which are allowed. The bike probably only did ~250 miles the whole time she had it and it wasnt crashed. the bar tape was torn upon receipt although she never reported it.
Any thoughts?
- Excessive buckle of the rear wheel £20
- Buckle front wheel £15
- Tear in bar tape £12.99
- Two chips in frame £30
- Bottle cage bolts missing £1.50
- Shifters scratched £15
- Total £94.49
Seems reasonable... but a little excessive...
How many bolts are in the bottle cage and why does it cost £1.50 to replace them? I think they are trying it on. what did they expect - someone to hire a bike and not use it?
They are ripping the arse out of it.
But then again, i'm not convinced by the whole triathlete not crashing thing...
- Dirty tyres: £30
- Oil on chain: £10
- Air missing form inner tubes: £15
..
Seems a bit of a piss-take to me - they must expect some degree of normal wear and tear.
Ive written to them to define what is a fair ammount of wear and tear.
She even found the bottle cage bolts last week and phoned them up and then told her dont worry we dont need them!
In isolation those charges seem fine/understandable. If someone put two chips in your road frame.
Would you just charge them £30? I'd want a heck of a lot more.
Same with shifters.
In total it seems alot but tbh in isolation those charges are fair.
Hmmm seems a little strange to me. I'm not sure how they quantify the cost of the damage. Did she receive a list of repair costs prior to hire? if not I think they should have made it clear that it would cost 15 nicker per chip.
I would be asking what the charges are for and then if the repairs are going to be made. But i'm sure there is someone on here who is more complaint savvy than me.
One thing I would add or rather ask is: Did she really look after the bike? maybe they have levied these charges as they are pissed off.
I have had one of my bikes for 10 years and there are no chips on the paint, brakes are not scratched and wheels are not buckled even after thousands of miles.
I am wondering how she was riding to mash it up like that over 250?
Bar tape really? Infact that whole list is ripping the piss.
The price of hire should cover wear and tear. End of.
I take it they have your mate's cc details?
Where did she hire the bike from?
Sounds like a con to me.
Take a wheel to your LBS to get it straightened, its usually between £5 and £10.
Bolt's cost a pittance, as would bar tape at trade price.
I'm not sure how they can put a price on scratches, this is surely wear and tear.
I'd tell em to **** off, then go and put their windows through.
It wsa the only new bike she has ever had so she was pretty careful riding it, she only used it to train on so no commuting or anything, it was never locked up.
It certainly looked pretty decent to me when she sent it back, she cleaned it but not as much as perhaps I would of.
As for the wheels, they were true enough, the brakes didnt rub and werent bad enough for me to think I better true them.
How much did it cost to hire the bike in the first place?
£100 + delivery I think
Don't really think OP has provided enough details to comment really. How much was the hire of the bike, how long for, was it an expensive/cheap bike, was it mint in the first place (apart from the bar tape!), just how bad were these scratches/chips, etc.
Certainly putting deep scratches on a pair of Dura Ace STIs would affect their s/h value by way more than £15 for example, I wouldn't consider that normal wear and tear as you can only really damage them with an off or by carelessness. Chips in the frame I would class as wear and tear due to stones, etc.
More to the point, who can afford a whole season of triathlons but not a road bike, given how many 0% deals there are these days?! 🙂
Bar tape is an expandable piece of kit, and if you're goin to hire out a bike you understand that from some of the money made, you will have to change/repair/replace bits and bobs. Take the wheels to lbs, have both trued for a tenner, buy some cheap bar tape for a fiver, stick the bolts back in, pay the £15 for the scratched shifter (presumably from leaning against a wall) and then tell them to bore off for the paint chips.
You pay for the entire bike in advance and then get it back less the £100 charge at the end of the season.
maybe put one back at them saying something like scratches are wear and tear, you've already discussed the bolts and they didn't want them & the wheels aren't fit for purpose if they buckle during the use it's had. As such you don't see it as fit for purpose and would like your rental charge back.
Bikes already been sent back so no option to get it fixed else where.
It was all done mail order
[quote=frepster ]£100 + delivery I think
See - I think that's pretty cheap. That doesn't mean the shop is right to load up any damage costs, but maybe they need to re-evaluate their charges so that the costs of minor wear are recouped through the hire charge.
If it's actually cost her £200 for the whole season, I think she got a good deal.
[i]£100 + delivery I think [/i]
That sounds pretty cheap.
I reckon the price in a shop would have gone down by more than that during the hire period even if it had just sat there on display as it's 'last years model'
You pay for the entire bike in advance and then get it back less the £100 charge at the end of the season.
So she did have the money for a bike 😕
Tell your friend to point out the chips were already there. And the rip - ALWAYS document that sort of thing when you're renting stuff, at the time and email/mail the pics to them.
Rented a car in cornwall a few years back from a small family firm - it had a dent in the boot that I was 'not to worry about' but I took pics etc anyway. On returning car they were VERY upset at the damage 😆 until I pointed out and provided the pictures I'd taken. Then they tried to charge me for extra petrol when I had more in then when I got it.
Anyway the point is, they will try and charge extra for stuff like that, as a matter of course, get your friend to dispute it all and she'll probably get the charges taken off.
Oooof, 100 is very very cheap. not surprised there are extra charges for not coming back exactly as it left. be interesting to see what the original terms are.
😆the wheels aren't fit for purpose if they buckle during the use it's had
I wasn't being serious FTR!
Edit - well, I was, but in a fascicous reply to the hire co way. Now more of the story is coming out, i'm not at all surprised at the charges and it all seems quite reasonable.
I imagine the original terms were along the lines of 'you buy a bike, we guarantee to buy it back less £100 if it comes back in showroom condition, else we'll charge you for any damage'.
Ive jut checked, it was £125 for 4 months on a £599 bike so not that cheap plus £25 total delivery charges.
This their T&C ref wear and tear.
18.The bike must be returned cleaned and in good condition, bearing in mind reasonable ‘wear and tear’. The bike must be returned with no punctures. A TRI UK bike mechanic will check the bike on its return; any damage that is not reasonable ‘wear and tear’ will be charged for and will incur a repair fee and labour charge, i.e. you will be charged for the cleaning of the bike if it is returned dirty, and damage will be charged accordingly.
it was £125 for 4 months on a £599 bike so not that cheap
No not [i]that[/i] cheap, it's mega bloody cheap. Add up 4 months worth of day-rentals and it'll come to a darn site more than that for a similar bike.
I can imagine wear and tear being tyre/drivetrain and grubby bar tape related.
scratches & chips on a road bike are caused by neglect/carelessness/crashes ultimately so would be out of wear and tear.
shop I used to work in
hire rate on 'nice' bikes i.e. £1500 + (Test bikes essentially)
£30 a day
£60 weekend (3 night)
£90 week
Test bikes though .. you got it all back if you purchased to similar value, though did use them as hire bikes too.
Only held deposit on - non consumable parts, loss, theft, irreparable damage i.e. bent frame, broken mech,
Chips, punctures, grips/tape, cables, gear indexing, brake bleeding (if applicable), 1st set of brake pads were all included in the price.
125 quid for 4 months IS cheap. You could easily wear out a set of tyres in that time, which would be 30-50 quid or so just for that.
On Your Bike charge 50 quid for 4 days..
http://www.onyourbike.com/product/9952-London-Trek-Standard-Road-Bike-Rental-4-days-%28Fri-Mon%29.php
I don't know about in the UK but in Vancouver rentals start from around $35.00 for a cheap singlespeed cruiser, to around $100 for a DH bike, so whichever way you look at it, 125UKP for unlimited riding for 4 months is bloody cheap!
Its not really a fair comparisson is it though, a seasons rental compared to a days rental charge,
She also barely used the thing which would be obvious to anyone who looked at the bike
TBF, you'd expect a DH bike (or any MTB) to come back with a bit more damage than a road bike, so the rental costs would reflect that.
In this case, we need to ask what would a "slightly-soiled" £600 road bike would be worth after 4 months?
Tri UK....
On Your Bike charge 50 quid for 4 days..
£75 for a week, on a bike of about the same value as the one hired by the OP's friend.
She also barely used the thing which would be obvious to anyone who looked at the bike
So are there chips in the paint, buckled wheels, scratched shifters? If not, then I'd complain about them charging for non-existent damage, otherwise I doubt most people would think "barely used".
7 months for that.The hire fee for each hire bike is £125.00 for the whole season (£150.00 if collected in-store, please purchase online & we will notify when your hire is ready to collect) ([b]1st February 2013 – 30th August 2013[/b]) + £450.00 deposit.
Just been to whinlatter, admittedly the bikes were more expensive, but they were £30 for 3 hours.
It seems reasnoble if you think
£600 bike, if they sold it at the end of the year off the shop floor maybe worth £400? Second hand maybe £300?
So the rental cost her £200, and cost the shop £300! Although obviously they can keep renting it out for another couple of seasons.
I have had one of my bikes for 10 years and there are no chips on the paint, brakes are not scratched and wheels are not buckled even after thousands of miles.
How? My road bike's 10 years old next year and looks like it's [s]been well cared for[/s] , [s]patina of age[/s], farked, there's not a square inch that's not got a chip, scuff, scratch or bubbling paint on it!
Surely the cost of rental is irevelant to the charges applied at the end, they have obviously done a cost analysis and decided that £125 is enough to charge and run a wothwhile profit when the bike is sold at the end of the term.
This just seems like gouging customers to me.
[quote=thisisnotaspoon ]It seems reasnoble if you think
£600 bike, if they sold it at the end of the year off the shop floor maybe worth £400? Second hand maybe £300?
So the rental cost her £200, and cost the shop £300! Although obviously they can keep renting it out for another couple of seasons.
They only rent out new bikes. I guess they must sell the old ones one, in which case it would be interesting to see what they go for.
[quote=frepster ]Surely the cost of rental is irevelant to the charges applied at the end, they have obviously done a cost analysis and decided that £125 is enough to charge and run a wothwhile profit when the bike is sold at the end of the term.
[i]If it comes back in suitable condition[/i]
It looks to me like their business model is based on the bikes not coming back.
She didnt get the bike until end of april so she got charged the same for 4 months.
It would have been bttter value if she used it more but I reckon 250 miles, I dont recall the chips so they must have been tiny.
Im as confused as Njee, she cant afford to buy a bike but she can afford to "rent" a bike, by effectively buying the bike paying fully up front for it on the basis they will buy it back at a guaranteed price subject to conditions?
Agree with others that scratched STIs would affect resale significantly, they are horrendously expensive parts, and for stuff like bottle cage bolts theyll be including a nominal labour charge. My LBS charges a couple of quid to take a wheel off a bike 😯
I assume she wasnt given a breakdown of potential costs prior to the deal?
It would have been bttter value if she used it more but I reckon 250 miles
She had the bike 4 months. The fact she only chose to ride it 250 miles (as training? Really?) is down to her.
[quote=scotroutes ] I guess they must sell the old ones one, in which case it would be interesting to see what they go for.
http://www.triuk.com/products/giant/giant-ex-hire-2013-defy-4-2013#.Ui3S98Z958E
£450
no, no fixed price menu as such for faults found so leaves them open to do what they like
Scott, it seems their returned suitable condition is as new as when it was delivered which is unrealistic in my view.
he didnt get the bike until end of april so she got charged the same for 4 months.
!relevant
so it only costs them £25 to rent the bike for the 7 months and thats assuming they pay list price for the bike in the first place.
It's worth checking with Tri UK that they're looking at the right bike too, when I dealt with them, they were quite disorganised, they might have got them mixed up.
I would be asking what the charges are for
They have already told you, in an itemised list ?
and then if the repairs are going to be made.
Nothing to do with you really, its their bike not yours 🙂
Its the same bike as she knows it didnt go back with the bottle cage bolts and the tape was torn before she got it.
Have emailed them to ask to comprimise on the chips and the tape as that is wear and tear as far as im concerned.
Scott, it seems their returned suitable condition is as new as when it was delivered which is unrealistic in my view
depends on how you use and look after stuff. My 9 month old road bike has [i]substantially[/i] more than 250 miles on it and it is unmarked- if I cleaned the bar tape and rim brake tracks I could pass it off as brand new.
the tape was torn before she got it.
isnt documenting existing damage when hiring something standard practice? Couple of smart phone pics when she received the bike and saved or emailed to company? Not smart-arsed hindsight, more common sense?
Really? tyres dont look worn, chain not stretched.
Seems like a good deal to me.
It's all about the terms and conditions. You cannot create a business based around the worse case costs for everyone so you need to be clear about labour rates and part rates for fixing stuff as well as examples of normal wear and tear.
My experience is though that even if you do all this there is a culture in the UK of not taking responsibility for paying for broken stuff. I have no idea where this culture comes from, but it's like thinking it was the bikes fault that it got scratched.
Other than the paint chips it doesn't seem unreasonable to me, the prices are more than I'd get charged at my LBS but that's a different situation. If the shifters are scratched then that does kinda imply its not been that well looked after and they aren't cheap bits of kit to replace.
Wear and tear on a road bike hired through the summer is tyre wear, brake blocks and chain/cassette at a push imo. And 250 miles in 4 months? I've done not far off that in 3 weeks and I'm not getting out that much at the moment.
Really? tyres dont look worn, chain not stretched.
yes the tyres have obviously been used, no the chain isnt stretched, nor do the sprockets/rings look used when theyre cleaned up. And my shifters go no where near a wall or anything that could scratch them - if I lean it against a wall its by rear tyre and inside pedal at 3/9 o'clock.
Still not explained how your friend can pay for a bike up front but not buy it? And are you accepting she's damaged the shifters (which I'd charge replacement cost for which would be the 90 quid in one hit)? And she really only used it for 250 miles in 4 months after paying so much for it to train for triathlons?
I think the charges are reasonable, your friend has been naive, and she hasn't looked after something she's hired. Harsh, but playing devils advocate to the pitchforks and bombers response on the first page.
It does read a little that your eagerness to avoid that your friend isn't being screwed metaphorically by them is so that she can literally by you.
Seems a bit 50/50 if looked at from both sides. I would err on the side of Tri-Uk though.
From the point of view of the customer:
I'm not sure how they quantify the cost of the damage. Did she receive a list of repair costs prior to hire? if not I think they should have made it clear that it would cost 15 nicker per chip.
I would have thought "damage charges" should explicitly defined as should "fair wear and tear". These terms are very clear in the rental of a house/ flat for example as lots of people have already mentioned. It is also odd the front and rear wheel have two different charges as one is a "buckle" and the other an "excessive buckle" 😕
From TriUk's point of view:
Other than the paint chips it doesn't seem unreasonable to me, the prices are more than I'd get charged at my LBS but that's a different situation. If the shifters are scratched then that does kinda imply its not been that well looked after and they aren't cheap bits of kit to replace.
Kind of along the lines of the above. If the damage quoted for is actually real then it does not sound well looked after for the mileage and your friend has had a pretty good deal out of it. For 250 miles on a road bike I would expect it to be absolutely spotless.
mrhoppy wins the thread for saying what we're all thinking 😉
If I was buying a second hand road bike from a shop, I'd expect it to come with new bar tape, not old tape with potentially six months and 5000 miles of someone else's sweat soaked in to it.
Shouldn't any shop budget for new tape in the hire price ?
I think the OP is at the point of haggling over the price being charged for the wheel buckles and bar tape rip really. The paint chips and shifter damage, if present, sounds cheap.
the bar tape was torn upon receipt although she never reported it.
Why not? I bet she regrets her slapdash attitude now.
I suspect she does, she didnt think it was a big deal and that she would be charged for the tape at a later date. Still live and learn I guess.
Ive suggested asking to dropp the charge for the paintwork as it looks minimal now ive seen photos and the tape as a comprimise.
Regarding affording a bike in the first place,I stopped trying to see logic in girls financial decsions a long time ago.
Thanks for all your posts!
Oh - I've just been putting my road bike away after yesterday ride. I had a good, honest look at it and can promise there are no chips in the paintwork - and that's after several [i]thousand[/i] miles.
All smells a bit fishy to me now i read the other posts. Barely used but managed to sustain 2 buckled wheels, chips in the frame and scratched brakes. Like i Said before, had one of my bikes for 10 years and after thousands of miles I don't have that damage.
frepster are you by any chance trying to get your groove on with this friend? 😉
I reckon she's been very daft hiring a bike when she COULD have bought one and sold it herself at the end of the race season, plus not checking the bike's condition upon delivery, plus allowing you to be her dogsbody (ah hang on, that's a smart thing to do!) chasing all of this stuff up.
If you were training, it would be 250 miles a week...
Doing 15 miles a week for four months !
That's not training, that's going to get some milk 🙂
Would have been cheaper to do that sort of mileage in a taxi I reckon.
In fuel terms, she's getting about 8 Mpg 😀
Would rentacar do that?Ive suggested asking to dropp the charge for the paintwork
[quote=nealglover ]Doing 15 miles a week for four months !
Don't forget to subtract the "event" mileage from that.
Probably about 6 mpg then.
Can you share the photos you've received of the damage? Then we can all stop speculating and get the pitchforks ready.