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@gotama you can try mine if you can tolerate the ween-iness. You'll find the wheelset feels familiar ..
@Electric Worry et al: of course, all "reviews" (if this is a review, it's not really, it's just an owner's notes) are subjective, and new-bike buzz reviews from owners particularly so. Obviously the strategy is to read a whole bunch of reviews from different sources and see what stands out, and then get a ride if those tick the reader's boxes. What you will find with The Following is regardless of review source, the same plus points come out over and over, that has to say something.
Concerns about buying from Evil are legitimate and understandable, though that's a separate issue to how the frame rides.
Some of my notes, definitely subjective, are here: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/a-very-rare-beast-indeed-but-they-do-exist/page/2#post-6981772
Thanks Matt, i'm a few pounds more than you though so probably too soft as well as being too small. I've had a go on my mate's 26er Evil and it certainly feels like a fast bike so i suspect this rides nicely. Appreciate the offer though.
Pesky wheels, wish i'd never sold em! Incidentally i'm dithering about selling my Jones with the wheels if any of your lot happen to be looking for one.
I might well invest in new wheels, I think this frame merits them, so we could boomerang them back to you maybe. They've "hardly" been used**. 😆
** seriously, as I was laid up most of winter from my bust shoulder
Perhaps you could lend it to me for a week and I could review it.... but then I would look on it favourably as you were gracious enough to lend it to me... so all reviews are subjective is probably correct.
FWIW I really like the idea of these Evil bikes, if I was in the market for anything like this it would be on the shortlist of bikes to get a test ride on. Unfortunately I seem to have spent all of my money on a new bike from YT and will be broke for the foreseeable future.
The best reviews on here are when someone has had a bike for 6 months plus and had to deal with a warranty return, tyre changes, perhaps a fork upgrade etc....also the bike that felt brilliant in June may not feel quite so good in December etc etc....the Cube 160 review recently was really helpful, the OMG I've bought a new bike, it's the best ever when the rider has barely ridden it tell us nothing other than the rider is excited...and who wouldn't be, they have a new toy to play with?!
I think I prefer short term reviews from mags, owner reviews are too subjective, shiny new bike syndrome - I think we all suffer from it, [i]hopefully[/i] journalists are more objective (ridden more bikes, no emotional/monetary investment - I don't think advertisers pay for good reviews, but I could be hopelessly naive).
But I also like long term reviews from owners who have had to pay for bearing replacement, breakages that sort of thing and know of the little foibles all bikes have.
Deviant, even then very few* owners will really own up to their bike actually being a bit shit. Don't blame them, but no one particularly enjoys admitting they've made a costly mistake
*no Renton doesn't count
I would hate to clean that & maintain all those pivots, wouldn't matter if it made me a riding God, looking after that in the conditions I get locally would be a nightmare & that's enough to put me off
D0NK, I don't think it's the manufacturers paying for good reviews, it's more a fear of them withdrawing their advertising that may lead to a skew in the review.
If your main income came from a company that makes a product that they advertise in your magazine that you then give a bad review to are they likely to stick around?
@roverpig I think you're middle para is a little too self-deprecatory
Well you've got to get your self deprecation in early round here 🙂
It's not really that though is it, it's more about the context of the comments. I could write a review about my bike saying that it's great on jumps for this, that and the other reason but in reality i'm pretty useless at jumps so my comments are largely pointless
They're not pointless though. They are very relevant to other people who are "pretty useless at jumps", which probably accounts for more readers than the experts. It's just a case of being honest about your abilities so that the reader can put your comments in that context.
It's funny that I'm arguing for this though as, generally, I hate the modern obsession with getting everybody's views on everything regardless of whether they have any knowledge of the suibject. "Tell us what you think; we don't care that you don't even understand the question, just tell us". But when it comes to bikes that anybody can buy and ride I'd have to accept that all opinions are valid.
No more pivots than any other faux-bar, Horst link or virtual pivot bike. Admittedly they are in prime position to get covered in crap all the time, but your linkage bearings starting to go isn't really a problem as the lateral movement should be controlled through the main pivot anyway
RD - the pivots are all in a fairly well protected area of the bike though, so I suspect it would be no worse to keep maintained than a 4 bar.
Worth noting re "pivots" is that those 3 bolts at the end of the elevated stay aren't pivots, they're static and they hold the geometry flip-tab in place. That could confuse an untrained eye (such as mine). It's not as busy is it looks.
That has the air of trying to "defend" my bike. For the record I'm not, I don't give a stuff what people ride as long as they're having a good time.
I thought to get it climbing OK I’d be having to flip the link, shorten the fork, and get the HA a good 1.5 degrees steeper or so.
Just that sentence shows that OP can't have ever really ridden a good modern trail bike before. Because good bikes go up and down without messing with pivots and malarky.
And then...
For a while now, I've been mostly riding Hardtails. Since realising that I prefer (good) 29ers to smaller wheeled bikes, my previously much loved Maverick hasn’t been used
And
So last year I bought a very nice 29er HT (Kinesis Sync)
So he's been riding steeper angled hardtails, and now rides a relatively slack angled FS bike. And it screams along.
FWIW, the numbers on the following look great to me and I'd love a go.
Curious why nobody has started moaning about [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mini-review-transition-smuggler ]this Smugger review[/url] or questioning the riders ability yet, yet have done here?
Worth noting re "pivots" is that those 3 bolts at the end of the elevated stay aren't pivots, they're static and they hold the geometry flip-tab in place. That could confuse an untrained eye (such as mine). It's not as busy is it looks.
Yup, 4 sets of bearing, no more than I had on my old Remedy, same as a VPP. Back end looks more complex than it actually is, it's just a linkage driven single pivot!
Just that sentence shows that OP can't have ever really ridden a good modern trail bike before. Because good bikes go up and down without messing with pivots and malarky.
That reads like you think the flip-link-tab is an on the trail setting. It's not, it's a (short) workshop job.
Low is about 0.6 degrees slacker and 7mm lower in BB than high.
Mine came low, I expected it to be way too slack, and be flipping to high sharpish, but tried it and it works well.
This isn't a DW-link bike. It's a DW design (sort of) but it's a single pivot with a linkage
Ah ok when the OP menationed it being a dw design that's what I presumed it was.
How does a dw design differ from a dw link then ?
Curious why nobody has started moaning about this Smugger review or questioning the riders ability yet, yet have done here?
Maybe the guy who owns it isn't an LBS owner/employee/manager with a vested interest in promoting a brand he/they have decided to sell?
A brand with a 'very' questionable reliability record...
How does a dw design differ from a dw link then ?
DW Link is a dual link design. Evil use a different system designed by the guy who also designed said DW Link.
The Evil is essentially a single pivot design though.
To be honest most of us on here should listen to the review of an average rider rather then the enduro super hero's as the majority of us are average riders. We don't need to know how our bike handles World Cup standard DH and would be much better served being told how bike X handles a standard trail center or moorland singletrack.
Some of the comments on here are (predictably) out of order.
Some strange comments in this thread indeed. Last I checked this is a bike forum, for talking about, sharing pictures, impressions and opinions of bikes, regardless of and without questioning the perceived riding ability of whoever participates.
@mboy thanks for sharing the nice review. It's not a bike I can afford right now but it looks amazing, and I am sure it rides as nice as it looks.
mudsoul - Member
Some strange comments in this thread indeed. Last I checked this is a bike forum, for talking about, sharing pictures, impressions and opinions of bikes, regardless of and without questioning the perceived riding ability of whoever participates.
@mboy thanks for sharing the nice review. It's not a bike I can afford right now but it looks amazing, and I am sure it rides as nice as it looks.
+1
+2
I did wonder if someone was going to make a comparison to my chat about my Smuggler 🙂
> I did wonder if someone was going to make a comparison to my chat about my Smuggler
I missed that before Gavin, just read it through. Good job. The Smuggler's got the same aims as the Following I think.
Maybe the guy who owns it isn't an LBS owner/employee/manager with a vested interest in promoting a brand he/they have decided to sell?A brand with a 'very' questionable reliability record...
Both legitimate points, but not ones anyone has had any issue with, they seem more concerned about the fact that he is supposedly looking for an ego massage and not a good enough rider to have an opinion.
Some strange comments in this thread indeed. Last I checked this is a bike forum, for talking about, sharing pictures, impressions and opinions of bikes, regardless of and without questioning the perceived riding ability of whoever participates.@mboy thanks for sharing the nice review. It's not a bike I can afford right now but it looks amazing, and I am sure it rides as nice as it looks.
+1
Some very unpleasant comments in here.
the fact that he is supposedly looking for an ego massage and not a good enough rider to have an opinion.
I have no comments on him as a rider. I question his lack of experience on similar contemporary bikes, that I would hope a journalist would have.
I have no comments on him as a rider. I question his lack of experience on similar contemporary bikes, that I would hope a journalist would have.
I didn't mean you 😉
Man writes about a mountain bike on a mountain bike forum and is criticised for it...
STW is a strange place sometimes.
I have no comments on him as a rider. I question his lack of experience on similar contemporary bikes, that I would hope a journalist would have.
Yes, but it's all there in the review. He stated all that to give it context, which is why it seems so odd that people are criticizing it. It is what it is.
Some of the comments are just plain rude - which is completely uncalled for.
I think it must be jealously, guy has an expensive bike & folk get their own back out of envy & big hitters hate the fact the thread now has 3 pages & they aren't getting any attention so resort to sniping & thinly veiled insults. All a normal day on STW ime
Be assured mboy is out riding his Following and doesn't give a stuff about the haterz.
AlexSimon
Yes, but it's all there in the review. He stated all that to give it context, which is why it seems so odd that people are criticizing it. It is what it is.
Some of the comments are just plain rude - which is completely uncalled for
+1
brant - member
I have no comments on him as a rider. I question his lack of experience on similar contemporary bikes, that I would hope a journalist would have
How does a bike journo review anything 'new' then? 😉
This is an outrage, I base all my life decisions on what strangers write on the internet and now i can't even be sure they're competent? What am i to do? As a foot note I always ask people for a resume before allowing them to start a conversation about the bike they're riding when I meet them in real life, I strongly suggest everyone here does the same.
Cool bike btw
I like your bike mboy...its pretty
Off to BPW in the morning, lets see how it fares there!
heads off to strava to check whether your beating my below par times on the blues 😳
EDIT he hasnt logged them yet - IM FASTER THAN AN EVIL RIDER!!!
If he's riding in Aldi gear, I'm sure all will be forgiven 8)
brant - MemberI have no comments on him as a rider. I question his lack of experience on similar contemporary bikes, that I would hope a journalist would have.
Why would a bloke posting his opinion onto a forum be held up to the standards of a print journalist?
Besides - I could understand the OPs post in full - try that with Steve Jones.
@v66ern Evils don't do blue.
@v66ern Evils don't do blue.
😆
so he'll just be riding the blacks?
brant - Member
I have no comments on him as a rider. I question his lack of experience on similar contemporary bikes, that I would hope a journalist would have.
Mboy- Member
I’ve ridden it on all the trails so far that I took my Whyte T-129 to when it was new, and crucially the Evil not only feels better on the descents (on the climbs the Whyte would be left for dead!), Strava backs it up with data that I’m usefully quicker on the Evil!
I'd say he has. The T129 is bang up to date and has a very good reputation. It's designed for similar stuff with similar geometry. Good comparison TBH.
so he'll just be riding the blacks?
The Following exists in a parallel dimension beyond trail grading.
Wow, some world class asshats on this thread. A real new low for this place. Just straight up nasty, petty, rudeness about someone sharing his joy and open, honest opinion about a new bike.
Although for missing the point of these bikes completely this has to be the winner. Given how flawed the logic is I'm still not even sure if it was written seriously. Apologies if it was tongue in cheek, otherwise - back under your bridge.
Actually, despite the marketing guff, I suspect that the target demographic for these short but slack 29ers will be XC mincers. People who want a bike that will give them the confidence to tacke the bits of trail that currently scare them, but who don't need lots of travel and want a bike that's fast on the easy bits too (where they spend most of their time). In which case an XC mincer is the ideal reviewer. How can you tell me whether this bike takes away the fear you felt at the top of a descent if you've never felt that fear?
No deadly serious I'm afraid. I am that demographic 🙂 Although I didn't mean to imply that we were the only people who could enjoy such a bike. So I should have said "a target demographic" rather than "the target demographic" I guess.