Well if they are that good, only fluffy white clouds or unicorns !!
It's a serious question because as much as I love it, I can't see myself buying another - so wonder what else would compare.
Personally I'd go for a Yeti SB5c although they've had their fare share of warranty nightmares in the past. Think they're ok now though.
Even if their frames are as good to ride as the reviews/owners suggest, I couldn't possibly get involved with a company that refuses to stand behind their products and back their customers.
And also apparently readily admit their bike designs are flawed. Bizarre.
Unbelievably bad would not come close to describing the way they seem to be in dealing with these issues.
Interesting, if dated, read http://nsmb.com/5211-the-untold-story-of-absolute-evil
Having to use a warranty is crap.
Having a worthless warranty is much, much worse.
Interesting, if dated, read http://nsmb.com/5211-the-untold-story-of-absolute-evil
Fascinating. I suppose it exposes the risk of Asian production if you are not close to every step of the process.
I had got my heart set on an Insurgent next year. I've been waiting to buy one since I saw the pictures of the aluminium 6" prototype in, what, 2009/10? I thought it'd be great to go with my Sovereign.
I'd decided in January that I would give Evil three strikes before deciding to purchase and this is the second, but the way it's been handled is bad enough that I think that might well be it. I will have to take my money elsewhere.
I have an Evil (Uprising). It's the best frame I've ever ridden
Interestingly a mate has one and has done for a while. Whilst it hasn't cracked or burst into flames if he does land something hard on it then the rear wheel hits....yep, the seat tube. Must be flex in the rear somewhere as it doesn't hit with all the air out of the shock in a static test.
Fascinating. I suppose it exposes the risk of [s]Asian [/s]production if you [s]are not close to every step of the process[/s] havent got a clue what you are doing.
You realise UK law gives you 6 years? Thanks for proving that being in the EU is totally unnecessary
Under UK law after 6 months the burden of proof shifts from the seller to the buyer to prove that the goods were faulty, hence taking them to court with an 18 month old futon
thats why in practice the 6 years doesnt mean jack
its 2 years under EU law
Ive used the this with a crappy 1 year old dell monitor they wouldnt take back and many many emails got nowhere, after showing them the EU regs they sent a courier to collect next day
Must be flex in the rear somewhere as it doesn't hit with all the air out of the shock in a static test.
Did you manage the also compress the bottom out bumper when doing that? Otherwise there's still more travel to go
Kimbers is spot on there
Customer loyalty comes from various factors but for me the top one is probably its customer support. I am an unashamed Turner fanboy and although their bikes are very good (so are most companies to be fair) the main reason is their level of support and service.
On Friday i emailed Turner support about a small issue i was having, within an hour Dave Turner himself had emailed me a very comprehensive answer. Now if you pop onto the Turner section on MTBR you will see that this is not a rare occurrence, its how the company appears to operate.
As much as i don't mind spending a lot of money on my main hobby i doubt many people have 2 and a half grand to burn, and as such i doubt i would ever touch an Evil bike even though a really good mate is a dealer i dont trust the company to see you right if it all goes south.
Mac, I had a Turner before the uprising, and it did ride well, almost as good as the Uprising so I guess that is where my money would go when the time comes. I hope that time is a long way off though because I do love the Uprising.
if he does land something hard on it then the rear wheel hits....yep, the seat tube.
I've never experienced this, and I have given it some stick so maybe it's back to the old 'human' element... Like those artisan products that say 'these products are handmade, any defects are features created by each artist'.
The simple fact is that Evil ask a premium price for their product but don't appear to provide a premium product in terms of QC or premium customer service.
I'll echo what's been said above, I'm surprised they are still in business.
mactheknife - Member
Customer loyalty comes from various factors but for me the top one is probably its customer support
I think this is part of the reason why Cotic have such a following. I know when I was thinking for increasing fork travel it was Cy who personally ran through the geometry changes including honest appraisal of both positives and nagatives I'd encounter.
I really appreciated it. He even took time out to email me back to basically say 'have a good weekend and enjoy the ride' so when I see Cotic praised on here it is no shock to me.
Stevet1, i have the new RFXv4.0 and to be honest its absolutely amazing but i had a blast yesterday on my old 5 spot that i built up for my boy and i fell back in love again. Completely forgot what a fun bike it is. Nippy and playful 🙂
Thread hijack
Stevet1, i have the new RFXv4.0 and to be honest its absolutely amazing
Cool 'cos that's the frame I'd be looking at if the worst happened. Old frame was an original '01 RFX
but i had a blast yesterday on my old 5 spot that i built up for my boy and i fell back in love again. Completely forgot what a fun bike it is. Nippy and playful
So that makes the RFX v4.0 sluggish and boring??? The playful yet forgiving nature of the uprising is why I love it so much.
No way is it sluggish and boring its that the 5 spot is so much more playful, they are very different bikes 😀
Disappointing for the OP and poor response from the guys at Evil.
Just to bring some balance:
I'm not seeing this problem with my Following using 2.3 High Rollers, on either Flow Rims or Crank Bros Iodine, rim width will have an marginal impact on tyre height? Will probably make a check if I use a different tyre
Mines a large frame so I wonder if the issue relates to frame size?
Not had to call on the warranty and hopefully wont have to, 8 months of use so far and more than please with the bike.
I was running a 2.25 nobby nic on a large, that didn't hit the seat post either. Quite a few scratches on the chainstays and the bb area.
I snapped a bolt on my Following and it took over two months to sort a replacement.
Silverfish wanted to charge me £89.99 for a kit!
The European importer sent one FOC
I've sold my following now. Don't think i would buy another Evil bike.
But they are fun bikes to ride.
Toons I think I bought your 5 spot many moons ago..lol
Macthknife I bought a cheap 5spot in a sale, soon after the paint started lifting on the rear triangle. I said I was fine with any colour triangle replacement- nope later (better) model 5spot on its way within the week. Now Turner can't be a huge company but their customer service focus on those that count; the customer is infallible. I remember selling the frame on, the buyer low balled me and I thought 'why not/share the love as I technically only paid sale price originally' then made me stump up the £30 insured post when I forgot to say plus '£x' post to post. Buyer chanced it then refused to stump up more. One year on he put said frame on here for a fair bit more..
But that's another story...wasn't one of you lot was it?...a black 44mm headtube frame...
I have never had better service from anyone inside our outside of the bike industry than I did from Turner. Dave makes it so easy. This is what happens when you have an engineer rather than a creative running a manufacturing company.
This is what happens when you have an engineer rather than a creative[s] running a manufacturing company.[/s]
It's the lack of manufacturing knowledge that seems to have been the problem from the start. It's like they just hand over some drawings and assume everything will be fine
hora - Member
Macthknife I bought a cheap 5spot in a sale, soon after the paint started lifting on the rear triangle. I said I was fine with any colour triangle replacement- nope later (better) model 5spot on its way within the week. Now Turner can't be a huge company but their customer service focus on those that count; the customer is infallible. I remember selling the frame on, the buyer low balled me and I thought 'why not/share the love as I technically only paid sale price originally' then made me stump up the £30 insured post when I forgot to say plus '£x' post to post. Buyer chanced it then refused to stump up more. One year on he put said frame on here for a fair bit more..But that's another story...wasn't one of you lot was it?...a black 44mm headtube frame...
😀 Hey hora, i remember reading on here that you didn't get on with you 5 spot. Was it a 2010 that could only take a straight steerer fork?
Anyway OP i hope the situation is on its way to being resolved to your satisfaction.
It was the 1/8 steerer, 2011 was a way better frame. I remember people at the time saying designer knows best/don't change wasn't isn't broken. Hey presto subtle Geo tweeks and lower etc in the 2011 just made it sooo much more modern.
Yep its a 2011 that i have passed onto my lad, i absolutely love it 🙂
This is what happens when you have an engineer rather than a creative [s]running a manufacturing company.[/s]
I'm sure that Kevin is far better at graphic design and marketing wine labels than Dave is. The description of that funky office (as nice as it sounds) doesn't scream "sound engineering design" to me. I bet it hasn't got one of these;
[img]
[/img]Taken from here;
http://www.mtb-mag.com/en/factory-visit-turner-suspension-bicycles/
worth a look!
Evil customer service:
Hi Damon, haha you did. awesome bike that with the coil CCDB 🙂
Probably the only bike I was gutted to be selling!
I wish Evil's warranty was half as good as Turners!!
Sad that Evil are still behaving in this way. I was the one mentioned at the start of this thread who had issues with them over a cracked rear triangle. In the end, my LBS made good, and I'll prob never know if they took the hit or not.
They are stunning bikes, and despite my issue, I've just bought an Insurgent to go with it. Some might think it madness, but if you trust your LBS then you should be fine. In Evil's defines, they seem to be having far fewer issues with the current frames than their first carbon frames, but still a shame they aren't better at the CS bit.
Sorry, but they deserve no defence. They made a product that they know fails, they continue to sell it to customers and they continue to fail to sort these issues.
Thats fraud, stealing and terrible service all in one.
You may rely on your LBS to bail you out when / if it goes wrong. But I would not want to give money to an organisation that finds it acceptable to knowingly continue to treat people like that.
There are other nice bikes out there made by honest businesses, support them and not these crooks.
You may rely on your LBS to bail you out when / if it goes wrong.
They're not bailing you out their fulfilling a business contract .its their job too deal with all the hassle not the customers.
They are stunning bikes, and despite my issue, I've just bought an Insurgent to go with it. Some might think it madness
it's not just madness, it's a step beyond that
They're not bailing you out their fulfilling a business contract .its their job too deal with all the hassle not the customers.
Out of curiosity, exactly how does this work? Frames carry a manufacturers warranty against manufacturing faults. The average LBS (in fact all LBS') are not qualified to judge a manufacturing fault. If they aren't/can't support a manufacturers warranty (as they aren't the manufacturer), how long is the warranty and how is it defined outside of the law?
With threads like this cropping up again can you imagine what the frames are worth second hand when you definitely have no warranty? Buying one new is like burning cash. They should of stuck to hardtails, or just gone under and done us all a favour.
They should of stuck to hardtails, or just gone under and done us all a favour.
Wow bitter much? Have you ever even owned an evil full sus?
OP - interested to see how this turns out, please update this thread when you get any follow up from silverfish or Evil.
This is what happens when a media/design company decide to make bikes.
Any update OP?
Wow bitter much?
Wow, defensive much?
Ok I have some positive news. I guy off here works for Silverfish and after I sent him all the correspondence, it looks like I am getting a new frame. I will update ASAP..
discapade - Member
Ok I have some positive news. I guy off here works for Silverfish and after I sent him all the correspondence, it looks like I am getting a new frame. I will update ASAP..
Will it still have the issue of tyre rubbing seat tube, or has the frame design been modified? Or will you just run a smaller rear tyre to avoid the issue?
Would be good to know if it's a design issue/flaw or a manufacturing/tolerance issue.
Either way, I'd consider selling the frame and getting something else.
[quote=discapade ]Ok I have some positive news. I guy off here works for Silverfish and after I sent him all the correspondence, it looks like I am getting a new frame. I will update ASAP..
Richie for PM/Labour Party Leader/England footie manager!!!
I think Richie does a great job but why does it need him to read a dissatisfied customers post on a forum to get things sorted out?
Tbh all the uk fellas have been top notch. I have asked my self this Q mate and can't work their system out..anyway, I'm not that bothered as long as I get what I think is fair, I'll be keeping the new frame as it really is that good and hopefully, it will be fine...
Great news.
Sad that it takes a forum thread to sort it out.
@fd3chris just sold mine; it's the most I've ever got for a 2nd hand frame 🙂
Would also like to know this.Would be good to know if it's a design issue/flaw or a manufacturing/tolerance issue.
crashtestmonkey - Memberstevet1 - Member
Wow bitter much?
Wow, defensive much?
Ha not at all, but to say that a company that has brought to manufacture multiple full suspension bikes that have been praised by everyone that rides them should have stuck to hardtails is a bit OTT is it not? I acknowledge their history of problems, and it makes me wary which is why I follow threads like this to try and find the truth and make up my own mind.
Hi Guys
Whilst its nice to hear my work is appreciated I think its important to understand that I'm not the one who actually resolves these issues. That's still Evil.
In these circumstances all I do is go through the details, speak to the relevant parties and ensure their are no crossed wires anywhere.
This particular case was a classic - the customer, the shop, us, Evil Europe and Evil US were all trying to swap correspondence and needless to say it just all became a confusing mess.
Once I was able to add some clarity Evil agreed a warranty within 12 hours. Despite the name and despite some of the comments on here, they're not actually evil!
Anyway, regardless, I'm glad this is sorted and stoked that the customer loves the bike enough to not just sell it on.
Good resolution for the OP, good to hear.
I guess though some work is needed on the communication side, I'd be a bit annoyed if I had to post on an internet forum to get any sort of useful response. Any ideas what would have happened had he not done this?
Richie, there's no confusion about admitting there's a design flaw and the designers making a mistake, at which point they should've sorted him out not "possibly offer crash replacement" with a sprinkle of "tis but a scratch"
the shop, us, Evil Europe and Evil US
cant imagine why they're so expensive...
Once I was able to add some clarity Evil agreed a warranty within 12 hours.
Great. So what was the problem? Are you not allowed to say? Is the OP sworn to secrecy? The only way Evil are going to shake this image of them as having bad warranty back up is to be totally honest and up front about any issues. Which is why on threads like this it's important to follow it to conclusion so that any myths can be dispelled (or confirmed...).
Is the OP sworn to secrecy?
Evil have a habit of doing that. There was a few cases in the UK and USA where they would only honor warranty if posts were removed, photos deleted & threads deleted. Just check out MTBR!
Richie, there's no confusion about admitting there's a design flaw and the designers making a mistake,
You say that but there absolutely IS confusion which is why I initially got involved.
We have sold hundreds of Followings and seen very, very few suffer this problem.
cant imagine why they're so expensive...
Yeah and you've not even factored in the cost of the helicopter I commute in.
Is the OP sworn to secrecy?
No but talking about the way any individual conducted themselves or their communication isn't fair.
Having to post on Singletrack to get what would appear to be a completely valid warranty claim sorted on a product that cost you thousands of pounds isn't fair either.
Having to post on Singletrack to get what would appear to be a completely valid warranty claim sorted on a product that cost you thousands of pounds isn't fair either.
Agreed. Kind of why I got involved though wasn't it.
Still not sure how a miscommunication could warrant some of the replies the OP posted, but glad to hear it's sorted.
...assuming the OP can read this, of course, and has not been banned from setting foot in STW as part of the NDA.
Tbh all the uk fellas have been top notch. I have asked my self this Q mate and can't work their system out..anyway, I'm not that bothered as long as I get what I think is fair, I'll be keeping the new frame as it really is that good and hopefully, it will be fine...
Glad its sorted for you, its a shame the UK fellas dont build the frames too! I would hate to go through this, all the best with the new frame, happy trails mate!
Not sure how "confusion" can lead to a company sending the below to a custoemr who has an obviously faulty bike - a fact that the company acknowledge themselves, by admitting that their Engineers make mistakes. The response is basically "Yes, we messed up. Bad luck, eh. Still, you can sell the frme and get a few quid back"
Reads to me like Evil's atitude still stinks, but Silverfish are able to get things sorted.
(Evil Bikes)
Jun 6, 14:22 MSTDamon,
I understand where you are coming from, but you must realize a few things here;
Your frame is not worthless. You are not alone with tire rub on the seat tube. Its a mountain bike. Scratches and scuffs are expected (yes I realize this is a little out of the norm). The market for used Followings is strong.
No one is trying to fob you off. Our job is to help you.
We are indeed a bike manufacturer. We do not want our bikes to have issues. Engineers are in fact human. They sometimes make mistakes.
I am doubtful I can make anything better than a crash replacement happen. I will ask around.
Will it still have the issue of tyre rubbing seat tube, or has the frame design been modified? Or will you just run a smaller rear tyre to avoid the issue?
Would be good to know if it's a design issue/flaw or a manufacturing/tolerance issue
Can confirm what I said earlier in the thread. Mine doesn't do it, nor do any of the others I know who have one. There was reports of one other having this issue on mtbr over a year ago but that's it. So seems to be isolated.
Lots of threads on mtbr about the rubbing issue...TBH I was a bit embarrassed about putting it on here but that was all I had left. I support this great industry and want to help push it forward and am so glad it is being sorted..I had a great bike but was afraid to ride it as I didn't want to cause more damage and basically felt I was being hung out to dry..
Really? I stand corrected if so. I was a pretty avid user of mtbr till about 6 months or so ago and only 1 report at that point, only dip in and out now so maybe missed it.
Either way, mine is still fine.
am so glad it is being sorted..I had a great bike but was afraid to ride it as I didn't want to cause more damage and basically felt I was being hung out to dry..
So what are you going to be doing different with the new replacement frame?
Carbon guard
Ok just an update...I picked up my new frame on Saturday...the power of Internet...!
Get it on ebay before it breaks..
I remember reading that lapierre wouldnt supply parts to anyone who wasn't the original owner. I decided then I'd avoid lapierre new or used.
I won't buy a Evil. Unless the company has a change of owners. This is coming from a Commencal owner as well!
Poor show IMO. As a customer I wouldn't expect to be put to the wire/stressed/treated like that or receive such emails.
I remember reading that lapierre wouldnt supply parts to anyone who wasn't the original owner. I decided then I'd avoid lapierre new or used.
Well that sounds like bollocks.
If you were not the original owner, but trying to claim parts FOC under warranty, then they'd be quite right in telling you to sod off.
If you were trying to buy them, on the other hand, they'd have no reason not to supply you.
Seems like a classic case of misreading something online, then taking it as fact.
Well that sounds like bollocks.If you were not the original owner, but trying to claim parts FOC under warranty, then they'd be quite right in telling you to sod off.
If you were trying to buy them, on the other hand, they'd have no reason not to supply you.Seems like a classic case of misreading something online, then taking it as fact.
i hate to agree with Hora, but I do recall a number of instances where lapierre would not sell replacement parts unless you were the original owner.
in fact:
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/lapierre-frame-spares-only-available-to-original-owner
pinetree - MemberI remember reading that lapierre wouldnt supply parts to anyone who wasn't the original owner. I decided then I'd avoid lapierre new or used.
Well that sounds like bollocks.
Seems like a classic case of misreading something online, then taking it as fact
Nope, was an actual thing where someone off here couldn't get hold of a replacement seat/chain stay from love nor money. iirc he wasn't even asking for warranty.
Heard very similar things about Santa Cruz too
EDIT: wot he says ^
Yup. I don't do business with companies like that. It kinda sticks in your mind.
legend - Member
pinetree - Member
I remember reading that lapierre wouldnt supply parts to anyone who wasn't the original owner. I decided then I'd avoid lapierre new or used.Well that sounds like bollocks.
Seems like a classic case of misreading something online, then taking it as fact
Nope, was an actual thing where someone off here couldn't get hold of a replacement seat/chain stay from love nor money. iirc he wasn't even asking for warranty.
Heard very similar things about Santa Cruz too
EDIT: wot he says ^
No problems at all with either-go through a dealer for the relevant brand, the pick the phone up or go on the B2B website, order parts & assuming in stock a day or two later parts arrive.
That's how it's been for the last 3 1/2 years that I've dealt with both Lapierre & SC anyway, both original owner & previously used bikes we've had through the workshop & supplying parts on request.
Maybe it's the dealer you're using that isn't great?
Unless it's an older model & sometimes they just stop supporting models completely.
Or go on the b2b website
That's something the man off the street can do? Not the original owner?
hora - Member
Or go on the b2b websiteThat's something the man off the street can do? Not the original owner?
Re read the post & you'll see I suggest going to a dealer-the bike shop, it's a wonderful invention.
You obviously bent the truth then on the b2b site saying they were the original owner as the link ^ and from what ive read over the past few years on forums suggest differently.
Why would I do that?
It's online ordering-you search for the part or type in the part number & press confirm order, it's hardly rocket science!
That's something the man off the street can do?
Of course not. B2B is a business platform. As Goldenwonder says, the dealer does this on your behalf.
You obviously bent the truth then on the b2b site saying they were the original owner as the link
I think you're overestimating the complexity of a b2b system...
ive read over the past few years on forums
Oh well it must be true then...