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Bike has survived the night. @cheez sure you went to the right house? (oops).
This has now been resolved, from my perspective at least, so I thought I'd update the thread.
The first thing my LBS did was to seek a second opinion - in this case they used Carbon Bike Repair in Dorking. They also viewed that it was a result of impact damage, but rather than a direct impact, felt it was a result of a rear wheel impact twisting the rear axle which in turn put and outward flex on the seat stay, causing the crack. This view was supported by some damage to the rear rim, which I hadn't spotted. They also noted how thin the seat stay was at this point, being able to deflect the carbon with a modest amount of pressure.
When the replacement rear triangle arrived it also appeared very thin in that area, deflecting under thumb pressure and "crackling". This was duly sent back to Silverfish and a 3rd rear triangle dispatched. This one doesn't deflect, and is now fitted to the bike.
The result of the above is that the LBS opined this was definitely a warranty issue, so have replaced it free of charge. Whether or not Evil / Silverfish take the same line is unclear at this stage, and obviously between the LBS and them, not me.
As such, I'm now happy - I've got my frame back within 2 weeks at no cost to me. However, it's worth highlighting that this wouldn't have happened without the support and effort of my LBS, which is Head for the Hills in Dorking. They were willing to back their customer and seek a second opinion, which then led them to believe the first rear triangle wasn't up to the job. They also loaned me their demo Nicolai (stunning bike btw) to keep me out on the trails last weekend. I should also mention Simon @ Nirvana has been v helpful and supportive, and given he is now the Evil dealer in the area, he's keen to see riders have confidence in the warranty so has watched this with interest.
The key question to me is: would I buy another? At this stage, I don't know. The Following is without doubt the best bike I've ever ridden, and I would be gutted not to ride it. Part of me also wants to ride an Insurgent. I love the fact it's come from a small boutique brand, and accept that because of their size, riders are, to a degree, part of the R&D process. That only works, however, if you are willing to support your customers with a 1st class warranty and back-up, and that doesn't seem to have happened here. Evil have a killer product on their hands with the Following (and with Bike magazine currently testing the Insurgent, possibly with that too), but customers aren't going to buy them if they question the support.
The flip side of this story is that it's a great advert for the LBS. I'm quite certain this would have been a much more painful process and perhaps with a different outcome, had it not been for them.
When the replacement rear triangle arrived it also appeared very thin in that area, deflecting under thumb pressure and "crackling"
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Great to hear that you've had a positive outcome.
For the rest of us riding the same frame, any chance you've taken a video of applying said pressure to the affected area, and you could post it on here so we know exactly what we're looking for? I'm certain the MTBR forum would benefit from this too...
Head for the Hills in Dorking
Sounds like you have a great LBS there. Well done to them.
Great outcome but "crackling" on a new triangle would have me selling the thing off I've got to be honest. Nothing sounds good about Evil's QC process
Most LBS are pretty decent. I took a knackered SRAM road hydro brake into an LBS and they investigated for a couple of hours then said they couldn't sort it but the other LBS about 3km away could. I took it there, gave them my receipt (from a third LBS in a different country) and after warning me I could be out 300-400 euros for a new shifter, they sent it off to SRAM. A week later, I get a call and all is sorted and all I have to pay for is workshop time (fair enough as I didn't buy from them).
Heihei good for you and great result. Kudos to HftH and Nirvana.
Sadly no can do re: video as both the original cracked triangle and the initial replacement are back at Silverfish.
Clearly there's a fine line here - we all want lighter and lighter frames, and certain parts of a bike frame should have some "give" in them, so personally I'm happy to give Evil the benefit of the doubt in terms of it being either the design being a bit too thin or lax QC in the manufacturing process. My bigger concern / question is over the warranty process.
Hmmm...benefit of doubt due to light frame???? Carbon should be super strong and stiff. There should not be any give in a carbon frame with thumb pressure!!! Imagine what a stone would do to that. I had a small rock ping up and wedge between a cross strut in the lower stay and frame a while back - it removed the paint finish from the carbon but the carbon itself was completely sound, and I imagine that was rammed in with some force since it was during a long rocky downhill. THAT is what I would expect from a decent quality carbon frame.
Good luck though!
So despite the same old claims of "yep, we've sorted it, no more issues with us" they continue to churn out sub standard bikes backed up with industry leading lack of customer service.
You would literally need to have your head examined to consider buying a bike from them.
Hmmm...benefit of doubt due to light frame????
Nah, the variation shouts of a production process that's out of control
I'm with Butterbean and Legend.
I really really wanted an Evil Insurgent to be my next bike but there is not a chance i am spending that amount of money with all these problems floating about. Saying that its a moot point as Turner brought out my dream bike with the RFX but for me it highlights how a companies reputation can / will be decided on their treatment of customers when problems arise and i didn't want to be one of those people who 6 months down the line i have a very expensive door stopper.
Saying that my previous dealings with silverfish have not filled me with any happiness so that was also a factor in my decision.
the variation shouts of a production process that's out of control
If you see how carbon frames are made you'd think things would have to be so out of control for frame sections to end up 'too thin' that it's not really believable. The assembly process would be an unmanaged free-for-all if things like that could happen. I doubt assembly missed whole sections of lay-up.
The **** are they up to then??? Doing it deliberately...?
I thought that the following was a "heavy" carbon frame so where did all the extra material go? My carbon frame shows no sign of flexing anywhere and I think is quite a bit lighter.
andylc, what I mean is that there will be another reason, ie just one of those things when bikes get used, a one-off most likely. Layup patterns are like parts BOMs, there's an exact number of pieces and a process / lay up order that has to be followed, you don't just get bits of carbon left over.
Would have been a great show of faith by silver fish just to warranty it but if 2nd opinion said was crash damage they in their rights .
Had mine for few months ,ridden fairly hard ,jumped it a fair bit ridden it the same as my 160 mm travel bike and it's been awesome ,
Been a lot of frames sold and this only cracked one I think ?
I don't know of a brand that has never had a cracked frame but silverfish / evil need to show they are goner look after customers
The 2nd opinion of crash damage was so much Bullshit though, a digned rim proves nothing, I've knackered wheels just going through rock gardens, didn't have to crash to do that!
When you've got a queue of middle aged men fawning over the brand and saying they'll own one despite the problems then Evil/Silverfish don't really have to improve do they?!....if they're reading this thread they know they have guaranteed customers coming up regardless!....they must be laughing into their cornflakes.
Just read some of the comments on here, the thread in general has put me off even if I respect Dave Weagle's input into the suspension linkage....but comments like 'i wanted one because they're a boutique brand'....jesus wept, is this shopping for footballers wives?...it's mountain biking, how about wanting to own a bike because it's good at the job?...or because it can handle the rigors of actual mountain biking?!
If the brand has a track record of broken frames and poor customer service then stay away, not fit for purpose springs to mind....but then I don't need 'boutique' stuff in my life so what do I know?!
jameso - Member
andylc, what I mean is that there will be another reason, ie just one of those things when bikes get used, a one-off most likely. Layup patterns are like parts BOMs, there's an exact number of pieces and a process / lay up order that has to be followed, you don't just get bits of carbon left over.
Scary isn't it (yes I've seen plenty of carbonz building stuff). So if all the parts are being used you've just got to look at all the other parts of the process. Is the material good enough quality? Are the frame builders following process (this could be the order the material is applied, the mixing and application of the epoxy and so on)? Are they taking some batches out of the oven early to speed things up? And whatever else you can think of
Remember that these swingarms hadn't all been used, 1st one had, 2nd was found to be faulty prior to installation (and must had been really noticeable, who squeezes tubes when building a bike?) and the 3rd one was deemed ok.
@heihei good to hear a positive outcome and kudos to H4TH, who are as the crow flies my very LBS.
When you've got a queue of middle aged men fawning over the brand and ...
The Following just got a superlative review in the Nov '15 What Mountain Bike so the queue's going to get longer.
(Is there something wrong with being middle aged?)
The Following just got a superlative review in the Nov '15 What Mountain Bike so the queue's going to get longer.
More fool them.
This thread shows the QC is crap and the warranty responsibilities of the manufacturer and importer are dire....but hey it got a good review in What Mountain Bike so what the hell!.....there are loads of excellent bikes out there without being lumbered with this pile of junk.
Enjoy!
Naughty Naughty Evil.. For those that do frequent MTBR Evil bikes put a nice post up slagging off the OP, they've promptly deleted it, but thankfull it lives on in the form of images, faceache and instagram.
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i ask this everytime, but why can't i post images from instagram?
The pure fact that a second swingarm could be damaged in the same manner by nothing more than a thumb (yes that digit on your hand), and Evil still wont warranty the original, hmmmm.......
Easier to just [url=
the actual page[/url].
If that's really from Evil they're even bigger arses than they've come across as in the past.
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Just gone onto MTBR - that post about it being posted from Yorkshire and maybe not being them - you lot are brilliant at detective work... 😉
I really doubt that's Evil - the account was created today, it's only made that post, and I really suspect Americans wouldn't say 'mint'. In fact southern English don't really say that either, I think it's an (english) northerner trolling and taking the **** out of the Surrey Hills.
There's serious potential for brand damage to Evil there so I hope they're on to MTBR to track down the poster.
There's serious potential for brand damage to Evil there
I think they have done a pretty good job of that themselves over the years 🙂
I really suspect Americans wouldn't say 'mint'
It was the OP on MTBR who described the trails as 'mint'. The response, genuine or not, is just repeating it.
Yorkshire you say? Any bikes brands around there?
Yep - guilty of saying "mint"
They were still mint this weekend. Spent a lovely day on and around the Col du Clandon 🙂
I say mint and in a southerner
it [b]must of[/b] come as quite a shock
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I believe the issue was impact damage from the wheel rather than impact from a stone. In any case I do wonder about the design or build quality of the frame. could it be that the layup has potential for one or two layers to be misplaced slightly resulting in a local weakness (particularly under compressive loading)? Maybe too many layers removed too quickly, or potential for one layer not to bond properly during curing. Anyway, not a very robust design from the OP's experience, although hopefully the replacement he now has is up to the job.
Glad the OP had good backup from their LBS. I've had the opposite with a warranty claim (a LBS insisting it wasn't a warranty job even after they'd been persuaded to send the part back and it had been replaced under warranty - weird!) so keep looking after those good LBSs.
There are definitely people who read the reviews - get tempted, then look at the ownership experience and walk away.When you've got a queue of middle aged men fawning over the brand and saying they'll own one despite the problems then Evil/Silverfish don't really have to improve do they?!....if they're reading this thread they know they have guaranteed customers coming up regardless!....they must be laughing into their cornflakes.
I did it with the Uprising (clearance and swingarm problems) and I've just had the same discussion with someone looking at the Following.
As someone else said - too many other good bikes to put up with that.
exactly the point AlexSimon nail and head!
so what do I know?!
precisely!
I would like to try a following but that means buying one and quite frankly it's far too spendy at the risk of receiving piss poor CS.
''When you've got a queue of middle aged men fawning over the brand and saying they'll own one despite the problems then Evil/Silverfish don't really have to improve do they?!....if they're reading this thread they know they have guaranteed customers coming up regardless!....they must be laughing into their cornflakes.
Just read some of the comments on here, the thread in general has put me off even if I respect Dave Weagle's input into the suspension linkage....but comments like 'i wanted one because they're a boutique brand'....jesus wept, is this shopping for footballers wives?...it's mountain biking, how about wanting to own a bike because it's good at the job?...or because it can handle the rigors of actual mountain biking?!
If the brand has a track record of broken frames and poor customer service then stay away, not fit for purpose springs to mind....but then I don't need 'boutique' stuff in my life so what do I know?!''
Well said deviant, when you think how a broken bike frame could leave you with a long walk home or really spoil a mountain biking trip, or possibly cause an injury, I'm in agreement in wondering why people are still thinking about buying an Evil bike after all that's transpired on this thread.
If people have enough money to be thinking about risking buying an Evil after this, I'd welcome some being punted in my direction. Buy a Cotic or a GT or a Giant or a Specialized or an Orange or a...
I'm in agreement in wondering why people are still thinking about buying an Evil bike after all that's transpired on this thread.
you think they actually get taken out of the T5?
I would like to try a following
There a demo bike available in Droitwich I believe, not that far away from you (assuming I've got your location correct going by your history)
Pardon at the T5?
It's whooshed over my head.