eMTBers: Do you still ride with non-eMTBers?

No, I'm my experience it just doesn't work.

My motor broke a few months ago and I just rode my hard tail locally on my own until it was fixed, then joined my usual group again.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ebikes-mixed-riding-groups-and-the-hatred/

This thread will give you some insight.

Yes. It's fine. Unless your group is full of rule 1 breakers.

Why do you think an ebike is the answer to getting better on rocky climbs?

Have you tried really pushing yourself? Maybe riding more often? Or sessions tech climbs?

Yeah it's fine if you aren't a dick.

Sometimes I'm the only eeb, sometimes there are only one or two normal bikes.

Be considerate and everyone has a great time

I do. But I’m not sure it’s the answer unless you want to leave your other mate behind! 😉 I’m the lone weirdo on here who rides his ebike switched off quite often, especially when on group rides. But usually ride my singlespeed hardtail locally unless I’m lapping the steep stuff or commuting. And the ebike is my only full-sus so I used that on my last away trip to more gnarly trails.

Our regular (more social speed) Thursday evening rides have a long history of people riding together whatever the bike. The constants have been bigger forked hardtails and middling travel full-sus bikes, although the wheels have got bigger on average over the years. Fat bikes and 29+ bikes are a lot more rare now.

Singlespeeds were more popular, faded a bit and are back in now (it’s v rare to go more than a few weeks without someone being gearless). Gravel bikes have turned up at least once (and failed a bit!) Rigid bikes aren’t unusual, nor are bigger enduro bikes, or proper XC bikes. Ebikes are pretty common now and anyone on them manages to blend in pretty well.

I’m surprised how people will try to go mountain biking and expect to be ok on the climbs when they don’t ride a bike (or do other demanding exercise) very often. Not saying that that’s you - but if you can find a way to get more pedalling into your life, the climbs will get faster/easier.

Only if you're willing to give your mates the occasional tow 😉

As above. Never had a problem.

Nope, it feels like you're riding through wet sand.

Mind you I do have some health concerns so I'm nowhere as fit as I was, but I have conferred with others who tried to ride non Ebikes after riding Ebikes and they thought that description was a good example of how it feels.

Just don't take the piss smashing off the front all the time and it'll be fine (unless you ride with a load of dick heads).

Why don't you discuss it with your riding group if you are worried?

My group is me and 1 mate, he's new to Eeb and really struggled in last few years to hold the pace, he's 13 years older than me.

Now I'm the one who gets killed on hills, but I can recover reasonably quickly so it works well.

He's loving it, so am I

I rode with some friends recently on holiday and 2 of us were on e-bikes (I was on holiday after all) and 2 were on regular bikes. It was a regular bike ride with much chatting and laughing. No one took the piss and no one got killed on climbs and no one was made to feel bad.

I think it depends on the people you ride with.

Yep, leave it in eco and don’t ride at the front.

I ride at the pace of the group at the back.

Though I usually use my hardtail if with non ebikers.

I still like riding non ebikes.

I do get stick off my friends for going on big solo rides and not inviting them. I've got to get the kids from school and go to Aldi etc so I'll go alone. A 2 hour ebike ride can be 4 hours with non ebikers (fitness depending obviously).

The above is why I bought one in the first place. Busy family life/work etc. Get to smash out some trails rapidly.

Don't they wait for you at the top?

We ride in a mixed group,with a variety of skills and fitness levels, it all balances out.

One of my mates wants to ride with me so that I push him to keep up. He's on a 10yo. 26" Orange, I'm on a Rail.

With others I ride at their pace, usually at the back of the group and don't chat on the climbs.When the climbs steep up I'll go on ahead and wait at the top.

I try not to be a dick.

I'm the op of the linked post above.

In my experience it doesn't work well.  Your group may start to resent the fact that you were once last on the climbs and now fresh and first to the top or just not suffering the way you were (there are usually people in your group that seem to like the quiet competition of always being first to the top).  Also, the collective suffering seems to be part of the social aspect of group riding.   With an ebike you don't really become part of that as you need to push yourself hard on an ebike to get tired.

I take my normal bike on group rides or just stick to ebike groups if on my ebike.  You'll also find the pace of the ride will mean you don't get a decent workout if you're riding with non ebikers.

I have never been built for cycling, but I love it. When I rode an analogue bike I was redlining at the back of the pack while most were just cruising. Buying ebikes isn't cheating it has ben an equaliser, in fact I put some power pedals on my gravel ebike and went for a hilly ride with a regular riding buddy, I was still putting about 30% more power into the pedals than he was over the ride.

I tend to just keep it in mainly in eco mode, and it works out quite well in group rides.

If you are a racing snake who wants to push, but a just having issues on a few technical climbs, then an ebike probably isn't the right solution for group rides.

No problems here either. I ride in eco and keep my pace with the group.

My mates have been great about it (I originally got the ebike due to knee problems).

As the knee has been healing I've switched back to my 'normal bike ' for 90% of our rides.

I've also joined a local ebike group and been out with them a few times.

As long as you don't ride like a dick with all the extra power racing to the top of every hill then you should be ok.

I'm sort of the opposite, in that I only ride an e-mtb occasionally and with the same people I ride with normally, usually because I'm on an easy day, but still want to get out somewhere hilly and have some fun. I ride at the pace of the group, chill out, chat and remind myself that while I'm not working very hard, the people around me are.

I think it's always going to depend on the dynamics of a particular group.. If you ride with a bunch who have an old-fashioned, sufferfest, smashing it up climbs sort of vibe, then I guess there's potential for resentment and grumpiness just because you're not part of the shared suffering. If the group is more laid-back and just enjoys riding for what it is, then I doubt it matters. It probably helps if you have a good relationship with the others to start with.

Anyway, it doesn't have to be a binary thing. You are just a mountain biker riding with or without power assist, not an 'eMTBer'. And actually, I think there's a difference between folk who swapped from a normal mtb to an e-mtb and those who've just gone straight into e-bikes and have no appreciation of how hard mountain biking actually is.

So basically, yes, and it depends...

Oh, in addition there will be people out there who will hate you simply because you ride an e-mtb and they have conceptions of who or what e-mtbers are. Mine, gleaned from my local riding in the Peak, is that a lot of them simply have no idea where they're going, probably because they're not local / don't have a more varied outdoor background and can't use a GPS let alone a map.

But I know that's prejudice fuelled only by meeting a succession of stray e-mtbers last summer, maybe leftovers from lockdown, so I don't let it colour my perception of individuals (much) 🙂

Sounds to me as though the OP is about to give up on life.

Ive only had my emtb a couple months, but when riding in large (non-emtb) groups a couple of times I've used the fat bike so far instead.

I find it strange that some people would ride for years with some 'friends' then buy an e-bike and just ditch them. Can't have been very good friends in the first place.

I'd be gutted if my riding mates (who are just mates anyway) just ditched me because they bought e-bikes, they already have to wait for me at the top of the hill anyway!! One of them sometimes comes back down and rides up again, just so he can beast himself again.

Maybe I should get an e-bike so I can keep up with them on the normal bikes.....

Done it for a while, it's all fine, you'll get the usual banter, you give some, you take some, just keep it fun, in this day and age we have so many types of ebikes, you can choose one of the lighter ones and keep up, but still have a lightish bike to get over stuff.

When you're in a group you're only as fast as your slowest rider, so all that means is if you're on an ebike, you move up the order a bit on mixed rides, you can also do ebike rides as well, where you'll push the bike to its paces against others, so no real negative.

Our defacto now is mixed bikes in our little group - works fine as nobody acts like a plonker

Sounds to me as though the OP is about to give up on life.

Some of us have to mate. Give us sympathy not abuse 😀

Slightly concerned throwing an eMTB into the mix could change the dynamic of the group and the type of ride we can do

Totally depends on the group and you.. and even the situation.

I got invited to a first ride back last week (mate broke both wrists 12wks ago) and I was very strictly told "leave the ebike at home" so I did... then Sunday an invite from the person saying "leave the eBike2 to ride with him and his daughter and "bring the ebike if you like" and towed his daughter up loads of hills. Funny enough we bumped into a couple of riders one of whom had snapped a valve in a carbon rim and being on the eBike I offered to go grab a hacksaw and pliers then meet him at the top.

HOWEVER ... that's perhaps just a manifestation of how the group dynamics changed, not down to me but 1-2 individuals with eBikes giving a negative perception of the eBikes when it's really the people.

I think that just means you ned to be aware and if necessary go the extra to make it as positive as possible.

dyna-ti

Mind you I do have some health concerns so I’m nowhere as fit as I was, but I have conferred with others who tried to ride non Ebikes after riding Ebikes and they thought that description was a good example of how it feels.

It's 99% psychological (obviously they are heavier and perhaps a bit of drag) but if I only ride the eMTB for a couple of weeks it really does feel like wet sand but if I ride my real bike often it's pretty normal and if I switch then for 5 mins perhaps it feels like that but you soon forget.

I often do an eBike and a real bike ride the same day... especially how it has split the group and will do 1/2 day and one and then swap for the other part of the group.

I couldn't say for sure as none of my friends ride an ebike yet, however I have one friend who is very slow that could possibly benefit from having one and I like the idea of them not slowing me down on the uphills so much.

I really don't mind ebikes except when some smug person cruises past you and suggests you get an ebike.

If I was physically capable I would push them in a ditch. Ride what ever you want don't be a duck.

dc1988

I couldn’t say for sure as none of my friends ride an ebike yet, however I have one friend who is very slow that could possibly benefit from having one and I like the idea of them not slowing me down on the uphills so much.

Worth noting here but both the people in my riding group that have caused the most negative e-MTB sentiment both fit that description.

You'd think perhaps they would be the most sensitive to when someone is struggling but they both seem not only oblivious to working it out but listening when they get told ???

Slightly concerned throwing an eMTB into the mix could change the dynamic of the group

If you trained and got really fit would you look for a different group of mates to ride with who could keep up with you? There's always a mix of fitness and abilities, whatever bikes are in the mix. I've rarely ever ridden in a group who all get to the top or bottom of every section together, and even if we do we'll stop and chat because it's not a race.

I prefer to ride my normal hardtail in non-emtb groups.

My EMTB has gradually increased in weight due to burlier tyres and other parts, so it just feels a bit slow, boring and uninvolving on flatter terrain or social MTB rides. I mostly juse use it for self-shuttling type rides now.

Possibly the lightweight ones are better for group rides, they seem like MTB's with assistance.

If I was physically capable I would push them in a ditch

You need to get yourself an eDitchPusher

10 in my group of riding buddies with 3 on e-bikes never had an issues, everyone just rides at group pace and keeps together and if someone does get ahead they wait for a regroup at top of hills or at gates - cannot see why you would have any issues with your group

OP here again!

Some interesting points made and thanks @mrchrist for sharing the similar thread (only a few pages in and already plenty of strong opinions on show!)

I'm not planning on giving up on life *just* yet, but it's difficult for me to get out more than once a week due to work and having 3 kids and I just can't see me being able to put enough training in the bridge the gap to the stronger riders in our group. In contract our 'fast lad' is older than me, but has no kids and works from home and is therefore able to put a good hilly 20 miles in pretty much every other day.

I guess my concern is if the next trip is to somewhere with a lot more climbing, say somewhere in Wales for example, then I'll have to think twice about going and that's a shame seeing as these are my mates and I enjoy the craic!

Mention to your mates that you're thinking of getting an ebike for the reasons you've listed and gauge their reaction.

“ I’m not planning on giving up on life *just* yet, but it’s difficult for me to get out more than once a week due to work and having 3 kids”

Same here! Thankfully I can commute by bike and when I’m not too busy I can link in some proper trails too.

“My EMTB has gradually increased in weight due to burlier tyres and other parts”

Most of my mates are running almost-downhill tyres on their ebikes, most of which are mullet or full 27.5, and they’re much slower* on flatter trails than my full 29 with lighter tyres (despite the inserts).

* the bikes’ rolling speed, not the riders!

You can still go on the trip. What is wrong with being at the back?

Waiting for folk isn't an issue. Is it?

Another alternative is an indoor trainer, which you can fit in for short, efficient blasts at home to bump up/maintain your fitness.

Would an ebike give any actual benefit if you used it on an indoor trainer? Seems a bit self defeating tbh...

Would an ebike give any actual benefit if you used it on an indoor trainer? Seems a bit self defeating tbh…

It would be ideal for Zwift racing 🙂

Everyone I ride with has eebs and manual bikes.
Generally we all try and ride the same type of bikes on a group ride.
Just works better for everyone.
If for whatever reason there's a mix of bikes it's no big deal with any eebers just doing a few extra climbs and everyone getting on with it.
Anyone that showed dickish behaviour to someone else because of their choice of bike would no longer be welcome in the group.

You'll find, group rides aside, you'll end up grabbing the eeb and going out for a blast on your own more often too.

Like I did tonight - finished a draining day at work, couldn't really be bothered. No way I'd have taken the normal bike out.

13 miles, 1600ft, average 11mph with a fair chunk of techy stuff, 2 (e)KOM's and 4 trophies later, big grins 👍

Waiting for folk isn’t an issue. Is it?

Have you ever been the fat lad at the back? You get to the top of a climb blowing out of your arse only for the racing snakes to announce that now the group is finally back together they’re dropping in so you never actually get a chance to recover.

Doomanic

Have you ever been the fat lad at the back? You get to the top of a climb blowing out of your arse only for the racing snakes to announce that now the group is finally back together they’re dropping in so you never actually get a chance to recover.

That's the exact behaviour a couple of the eMTB owners in our group exhibit now they are no longer the ones blowing off the back along with "I'm getting cold/hot", "I've been waiting for ages".

That’s the exact behaviour a couple of the eMTB owners in our group exhibit now they are no longer the ones blowing off the back along with “I’m getting cold/hot”, “I’ve been waiting for ages”.

That's exactly the opposite to what I and other e-mtb riders in our group do. In fact myself and another eeber hung around at the back on a recent ride with a noob who was blowing out of his arse. The racing snakes are still the worst ones for doing that

People will always be dicks eeb or not

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

That’s exactly the opposite to what I and other e-mtb riders in our group do. In fact myself and another eeber hung around at the back on a recent ride with a noob who was blowing out of his arse.

It's exactly the opposite to what I do on group rides (whether I'm on the eMTB or not) along with pretty much everyone else that has an eMTB in the group but a couple of dicks has set the expectations of quite a few of the group

That’s exactly the opposite to what I and other e-mtb riders in our group do. In fact myself and another eeber hung around at the back on a recent ride with a noob who was blowing out of his arse.

As someone who's been the person blowing out his arse whilst the ebikers peddle along effortlessly it's not the positive thing you seem to think it is.

As someone who’s been the person blowing out his arse whilst the ebikers peddle along effortlessly it’s not the positive thing you seem to think it is.

He's made his choice, just bought a new bike and chose analogue.

I'm 100% certain he appreciated it more than there being literally none of the group within eyesight as he nearly died and didn't really know where he was going. I turned the motor off at one point

Mention to your mates that you’re thinking of getting an ebike for the reasons you’ve listed and gauge their reaction.

Their response, "that's it, we'll all have to get one now" 😄

If you trained and got really fit would you look for a different group of mates to ride with who could keep up with you?

I probably would at least for the majority of rides. In general I like to just ride my bike, no stopping or faffing about. I'll do this either on my own or with a few friend's of similar ability. Not seeing the fun in very mixed ability groups, byt each to there own so whatever works.

As someone who’s been the person blowing out his arse whilst the ebikers peddle along effortlessly it’s not the positive thing you seem to think it is.

I'd find it incredibly patronising if someone did this, I know the intention would be supportive but in the moment I'd be asking them to be supportive elsewhere 😂

My mate now cruises alongside me and talks to me as I'm panting, the same way I used to do to him.

We're mates, it's all good.

@stevextc see my comment on page 1 about rule 1…

doomanic

see my comment on page 1 about rule 1…

Yes. It’s fine. Unless your group is full of rule 1 breakers.

that's the thing the group doesn't need to be "full of" ,it just takes a couple and whereby that can be said to be true without eMTB the eMTB enables this if not somehow "managed". (It also depends what individuals class as dickish behaviour - how far do you cater for people with obvious mental health issues?)

Our group always did 2 main types of rides (and adhoc) so we would have inclusive rides at the slowest pace and ensuring they get rests and a friendly route and "expect to be going as fast as possible at all times" rides.
(We also have "lets dick about in the woods then go to the pub" rides)

For the sake of brevity lets just call them "fast/slow/fun"

"slow" could be tech ability or fitness,
"fast" will or won't include "big drops" and "big gaps" - that is we don't really cater for anyone not happy with what would be a "black", it's assumed but also explicitly said - basically if we are going from A-B in the "fast" group we just choose a route and don't really think about making it specifically accessible or we might take in some fun features ..

Most (not all but nearly) of the riders who'd be in the "fast group" also did the "slow" rides and treat it as a social or sometimes we split a ride and meet up at various points or do a morning/afternoon where we do a slow social and those who wanna do a "real ride" do so after. People have kids and stuff so sometimes they can't make the morning so then if they want a "slow social" we'd do the "fast ride" earlier and social later... There are a couple of people like doing "daft stuff" but struggle with fitness and we cater for them by for example chucking in daft optional stuff on a social or the "dick around in the woods". We also had a "rule" that anyone being a dick on social rides was "invited" to join the "fast group".

This all worked pretty well up to eMTB's... but more specifically 2 people with eMTB's.

Before that though it then led to splits into more sub-groups... we had a "fast/slow" rides for real bikes and eMTB rides.. and since most of the eMTB owners were also the ones going on "fast rides" no specific "slow/social eMTB".
We (a few of the faster group who also had eMTB's) started doing some slow/social eMTB specifically for one bloke as he was wrecking all the other rides for everyone else. He'd turn up on a social rides and then beast beginners on real bikes then give them shit about how he's been waiting ages and getting cold before setting off and leaving them or complain when we took a easier climb or route but that didn't stop him inviting himself to any of the other rides and continuing to ruin them. Ultimately he'd drag a few people off with him (including his adult son) because he'd create confusion... otherwise we'd just let him go... but try organising a "no drop ride" where one or two people have the sole aim of dropping people on real bikes as their definition of fun.

(The other has never ridden a real MTB and comes from MX so he's to a large extent just following the lead of 1st bloke and he can keep up on the fast rides)

So now we have no "social rides" or even "fast rides" that aren't arranged secretly .. group rides stating "no e-bikes" get crashed and ruined all because 1-2 people act like dicks... I still get invited to more rides than I can make it's just by direct messages and specifically told "don't tell XXX" then we still get "why were you guys parked at ... and you didn't invite me"

short of getting very personal naming the person/people in the group and saying they specifically aren't invited or kicking them out of the group what else can we do?

That’s a really long winded way of saying some people are dicks. 🙄

I was slower up the hills last night on my 50lb emtb in eco/trail than my mate on his 25lb (guesstimate) titanium HT

Doomanic

That’s a really long winded way of saying some people are dicks.

It's why it only takes a couple of dicks on eMTB's to wreck a riding group and why the group doesn't need to be "full of dicks" when eMTB's get involved.

The short version is eMTB's are enablers for dicks

Nah, the short version is, If someone is being a dick, tell them.. Otherwise, well, it's your fault as much as theirs.

It's not school where you may get excluded from the cool kids group.... it's grown ups.

yes perfectly acceptable so long as you explain you have a heart condition for which your meds (beta blockers) prevent you from attaining a heart rate above 90bpm and that you ride an e-mtb simply to keep up. Therefore remain anonymous within the group and certainly don't go off the front or lead/pace unless requested. Remain in eco and even better get a super light ebike with its reduced power output rather than the full-fat version.

Unless you're throwing up at the top of the climb, you could push harder.

The short version is eMTB’s are enablers for dicks

Dicks on bikes existed way before ebikes were a thing.

Not in Stevextc’s world apparently.

Dicks on bikes existed way before ebikes were a thing

True, but as they generally needed to be fit there were far less of them.

flyingpotatoes

Dicks on bikes existed way before ebikes were a thing.

Totally, however eMTB's have the potential to be a enabler or amplifier and do that in ways that groups of riders of real bikes don't necessarily have experience or group customs to deal with.

Gribs

True, but as they generally needed to be fit there were far less of them.

Well, lots of ways to be a dick on a bike... it's not exclusive.

weeksy

Nah, the short version is, If someone is being a dick, tell them.. Otherwise, well, it’s your fault as much as theirs.

There are only so many ways to tell someone without straying into rule #1
A lot of truth in that but its also more complicated in a bigger mixed ability group..

in a very mixed ability group of 25/30 who's job is that? (a few of the more experienced riders have had words with a couple of them - one more successfully than the other.. )
How many times do you believe them when they say they won't do it again?

What about the beginners for whom their 1st no drop group ride with the group was ruined? and we tell them sorry... then same happens on their 2nd group ride? ( this is where the group has really suffered with those of lesser ability or self confidence just quitting - its not really had a direct impact on me or the other "more experienced" ones you meet at races..

If this was a non eMTB then it would be a case of "if you want to do climbs at that speed and not wait for the stragglers you should just come to the "more advanced group rides"... except no one wants them on the smaller group ruining that as well because they "don't do steep, gaps or drops".

When a group ride is explicitly no eBikes and they turn up on one (with their son who's a really good bloke) then again what do you do? Tell them you aren't welcome but your son is because he's not a dick when they again promise not to do the same thing and have no intention whatsoever of sticking to it then one of the newer beginners say's "Oh it's OK so long as we don't get dropped" or "Maybe I shouldn't come" ?
Then you eventually get to the "it's a public forest you can't stop me"

Or you get to the top of a climb encouraging the last one and riding with them to find out the dick has already got everyone ready to leave and then sets off taking unsuspecting riders with them.

weeksy

It’s not school where you may get excluded from the cool kids group…. it’s grown ups.

You'd think so except I suspect for the problem eMTBers it is like school and they regard the "more advanced" rides as being "the cool kids", not some guys and gals just want to ride more demanding stuff sometimes.

One of the problem eMTB riders actually listened and mainly does the more advanced rides and mainly lets those not on eBikes take a break - not perfect but decent enough... and a bit too little too late as we barely have any of the less experienced riders left.

The other seems to think they can buy their way into what they presumably see as the "cool kids" ???
According to Aa couple of those that have not blocked him on every social media DM he still stalks them and asks "I saw your car parked why didn't you invite me?"

We went out Sat, 3 manuals, 1 Emtb. Eeber sat at the back all day in the group, mostly cruising along apart from 1 road section when i pushed 19mph just for giggles 😉

He didn't overtake anyone apart from 1 hill but that was at the request of one of the manuals to "show us how it climbs then"...

Eeber... happy, manuals, happy 🙂

Exactly how hard is it to say to everyone at the start of a ride: “if you’re on an ebike, please be considerate”? And then expand on what that means, if need be.

I went for a ride with two 20 year olds. And I didn't die 🙂 My son insisted I went at the front so that he could try to keep up. He did on the long climb (though I did leave it in eco). On the descent he said he was quicker round the bends but I pulled away on the straights. Brilliant fun.

chiefgrooveguru

Exactly how hard is it to say to everyone at the start of a ride: “if you’re on an ebike, please be considerate”?

eBike or not everyone gets told the same on a no drop ride...

The problem is what do you do if they say they will and then don't.

weeksy

We went out Sat, 3 manuals, 1 Emtb. Eeber sat at the back all day in the group, mostly cruising along apart from 1 road section when i pushed 19mph just for giggles

Thats quite a different scenario to 25 riders on a no drop ride with 3-4 their first time out... and a couple of eMTBers who are determined to **** the ride up for them.

Thats quite a different scenario to 25 riders on a no drop ride with 3-4 their first time out… and a couple of eMTBers who are determined to **** the ride up for them.

Why the F you'd consider going on a ride with 25 people especially when you know several are aholes, i have no idea at all. I honestly can't think of a worse ride than trying to ride with that many people.

<p style="padding-left: 40px;">I was always that fat lad at the back. The group I ride with are all consistently fitter and faster but being basically roadies they slow when it gets technical allowing me to catch up. Since I bought an emtb I have tried to remain with the group and not fly off. This has had a strange affect on the strongest in the group. He was always very tolerant of waiting for me but now he doesn't have to, he is very grumpy when I turn up on the ebike. You'ld think he would be grateful not having to hang about but no. Perhaps he was nearer the limit than he liked to admit and needed the rests!</p>

I honestly can’t think of a worse ride than trying to ride with that many people.

Agreed! I remember going on a few, the ones who think they're fast but aren't riding at the front! Out of 25 there's gonna be some dicks!

Most of my experience riding with e-bike riders has been good. They keep to the pace of the group etc. One rider I know who wasn’t particularly strong on a bike became an absolute pita when he got an e-bike. The newly acquired super powers most certainly went to his head 🤣

“The problem is what do you do if they say they will and then don’t.”

It’s quite simple. If the e-bikers want to ride off on their own then they can. It’s then down to everyone else to be considerate and hold back for the slower riders.

The problem is what do you do if they say they will and then don’t

When you get to them

"oi mate, have a word with yourself, either ride with the group or bugger off"

group mountain bike rides of 25 people sound like hell regardless of whether there are any ebikes in the group or not. Cant imagine why you'd choose to be part of that. Cant you split into smaller groups of 5 or 6?

anything over about 5 or 6 people and it starts to become difficult with either different paces (both up and down), mechanicals etc

They can be good fun but you need a clearly designated leader and deputy to control things. And tubeless tyres!