EMTB for longer rides - realistically how much range do you get?

I've got a Santa Cruz Heckler SL for exactly this type of reasoning. I wanted something that made long days more fun  could be lifted over fences and didn't feel too far away from normal biking. I'm still waiting for Fazua to release a range extender (mebbes early summer apparently). I can get about 6 hours of biking out of it (40-45 miles) with about 1500m of climbing. Kept mostly in the lowest assist mode with only turning it up for really steep hills. The range extender will give me a bit more leeway to make it easier or more adventurous in terms of elevation.

My cube with a 750 battery did 80 miles with 3000ft of climbing towing a trailer full of camping kit.  Just.  I had range anxiety and had to use low power a lot.   Its the climbing that really uses batteries.   I suspect the loop you mention will be about the max you can get out of one depending on the battery size 

Most of the modern full fat ebikes with 750wh+ batteries should manage 50 miles/6500 feet of climbing in the lower assist modes (assuming you're not super heavy) , and it'll still feel much easier than doing it unassisted.

My old 2020 orbea wild fs with 620wh battery will do about 6000feet of climb over 35 miles in tour mode, so with a 750wh battery it should be able to do your example loop. 

I want to know how heavy you are and what your current fitness level is to be able to answer the question.

I have a Giant Stance e+ Pro with a 625wh battery and covered 3000 miles over 4 years and I am not light at 95kg.

I can get 40+ miles in the peak district if I stick to the lowest two power settings. Don't know the ft/metres of ascent but thats up and down steep stuff like the Derwent Valley removed link Can get up most stuff where I have grip with those two settings if I use the full range of gears. Obviously less climbing/750/800wh battery and you will easily get more. Temperature makes a difference as well, more range in the summer vs winter.

My usual range on a heavy 60lb bosch 625w ebike with wide/heavy tyres is around 3500-4500ft in emtb (second from most powerful mode). Range usually depends on how much mud there is. I've never bothered to use lower power modes much, as I have two batteries. I regularly do 8000ft plus days, my record is 15000ft (with charging) in a day.

The simplest very rough way is dividing the battery capacity by how much power you want to use. Ie a 600Wh battery will at best give you 4 hours with 150W of assistance. Your weight makes a huge difference to how that feels when climbing and it's very easy to drain a battery in a couple of hours even without using turbo if you're powerful and heavy.

Anything with 800wh or more battery should be able to do that fine in lower assist modes.
Even in eco, the assist makes a huge difference so I'd say a trail style eBike would be perfect for what you are looking for.

An example of what I'd want to do is a repeat of the Mary Townley loop (the other way) which is 47 miles, 6500ft of climbing in and out of the Calder valley

hmm I’ve got an Orbea Rise 85nm 630wh. I genuinely think I could just about get round the loop if I kept it in a very low nm setting.

However, I would be questioning myself all the way round why I was bothering to do it on an ebike. 

If your going to put a bike in its lowest power setting all the time it defeats the object of owning a powered bike imo, and I enjoy pedalling a bike!

Id prefer to do half the loop and have much more fun on mid/full power

The only other caveat to this is that since I’ve had mine I haven’t done much ‘natural’ trail riding where to be fair you do feel like out right power doesn’t make as much difference 

For some people, the object of owning one such bike is to be able to do such rides and not feel like you want to die.

I have a Mondraker Neat - I.e. a light e-bike without the TQ motor. I hardly ever ride it in anything except the lowest mode. I only shift into the middle mode for short, steep technical climbs. That’s the way I enjoy riding it most. It’s like riding a normal bike, only with the feeling of having more energy reserves in my legs.

I’d estimate that I get around 20 miles and about 800m of climbing for around 50% of the internal 360WHr battery. So, with the 160WHr range extender mounted, I’d expect to get around 2400m of climbing and about 50-60miles. 

but there are plenty of e-bikes around with greater range then mine. For what the OP is looking to ride, to avoid range anxiety, I’d probably go for something with a larger battery. Or, I’d also be happy to have a go at a ride like that with 2 x range extenders on my Neat. The great advantage of range extenders is that I can use the bike without them, which counts for 99.5% of my riding. But if I want to increase the capacity for those mega rides, I can do so if I like (rather than carrying all that weight around for every ride).

Thanks for the responses so far. Looks like it might work .

Posted by: GolfChick

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For some people, the object of owning one such bike is to be able to do such rides and not feel like you want to die

This is very much my motivation - I want to carry on doing big rides as I get older 

Posted by: GolfChick

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I want to know how heavy you are and what your current fitness level is to be able to answer the question

I'm about 90 kg - cycling fitness is ok but not what it was - but I've got potential to improve if I get on my bike more

A lack of range anxiety does not make up for ALL THE RUDDY GATES.

A lack of range anxiety does not make up for ALL THE RUDDY GATES.

That’s where I am at. I bought an ebike because I wanted to do the long rides I used to do and recently hadn’t been fit enough to do.

in the summer I will no doubt gives those long rides a go, but IMO the further you go, and the less power you use on an emtb, the less sense they make.

I've had 40 miles AND nearly 7000ft from my Spesh SL, but I'm fit and only 76kg - riding on my own.

When I ride with full-fats the range reduces as I'm using it higher in the power range (on climbs especially) and now full-fats are been fitted with larger batteries it's starting to make me wonder whether I need two ebikes; an SL for when on my own or in a mixed group and a full-fat for when it's just eebs.

If your going to put a bike in its lowest power setting all the time it defeats the object of owning a powered bike imo, and I enjoy pedalling a bike!

I find when riding on my own the SL is perfect because I ride to my own pace, I've no time constraints so what's the rush.

Going by my Strava data, the longest off-road ride I've managed on my 2021 Spesh Levo with a 500w battery was around 60km with 1000m of climbing around Aviemore. I weight in at 110kg and almost exclusively ride in eco mode. I actually have the modes tuned for maximum range as I want to have a balance between being able to keep doing longer rides without feeling like death afterwards. 

Early days on a Heckler SL so only limited experience of distance/elevation range. Bought for purpose of squeezing as much riding into a short window as possible while kids are at clubs/activities: so far or it's been perfect for that. My focus is more on making full use of the assistance in a shorter period of time rather than less assistance over a long ride, but usage stats below might still be helpful.

21km and 775m elevation, mostly mid-assistance setting with about 30% highest-assistance. 40% battery used.

22km and 855m elevation, mostly mid-assistance setting with about 30% highest-assistance. 50% battery used.

60Nm torque and 430Wh battery - like @Fat-boy-fat I'm interested in the external range extender battery that's been overdue for a while now. 

Extrapolating those I'd expect/hope for double the distance/elevation, so a 40km/1600m ride being possible using mostly the mid-assistance level with a fair bit of high. Obviously I could get more range if I went easier on the assistance but I've yet to have a ride of that type on mine so unsure what's possible.

I'm a 88kg reasonably fit rider on a XXL that's about 20kg inc pedals. More travel than I necessarily need but I intend wringing its neck at the likes of the Golfie/Aberfoye where I'm sure I'll appreciate it all.

Posted by: olddog

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So is this a sensible ask for a full suss emtb - or would I have to run the bike with so little assist I'd be better just sucking it up, getting fit and using a normal bike?

Lots of variables, mostly already covered, but fwiw, my take is that people often underestimate the level of help you get from even low levels of assistance. Even at quite modest settings, it makes a significant difference on climbs. 

I think there's also a bit of an attitudinal divide between people who simply want as much power as possible and to go as fast uphill as they can and those who view e-bikes more as a way of propping up fitness and being able to do stuff you wouldn't be able to manage without. There's no right or wrong take, it just depends on you and you can ride the bike differently on different days. 

It's also, as far as fitness goes, not an either / or thing. I used an e-bike as a recovery tool when getting back riding after long covid and just spending time pedalling and being able to play with assistance levels works surprisingly well for building base endurance, particularly as you can get in more ride time at a nice, steady endurance sort of level. 

You can also eke out range by using faster tyres - a lot of e-mtbs seem to be equipped with quite draggy ones as stock - and, if available, using a range extender or even a spare battery. 

So yeah, I reckon you could do what you want on most modern e-mtbs, but also use it to build back fitness to the point where you an also ride a non-assisted bike. 

Recently purchased an Orbea Rise H20 to allow me to re-explore the hills that I used to roam in when I was younger.

Longest ride to date is 44km and 617m of climbing but I can also hose the battery in 27km and 750m climbing if it's sub-zero and I am in turbo-boost. So much fun to be had doing that 🙂

At start up, my bike tells me it can get me from Stirling to Pitlochry. That's a big day out!

Anyway, you can tune the motor output in a phone app - reducing trail mode should make a massive difference to your range. 

 I have a range of motor profiles saved: default, Colsnaur at 100%, Bigger days out etc. It's just a few seconds before a ride to swap these around.

Adding in a range-extender will add 50% to your range. Mine's on its way. 
Gates are a bastard - and it's a full-body workout dragging the bike through snow.

With a 500w battery on my Shimano motor, I am lucky to get 25-30 miles with 3000ft of climbing in the Peak, all in eco. I actually bought a spare battery for longer rides but don't use it that often as age often means I need a recharge before the battery.

This weekend in conditions barely above 0 degrees and plenty of mud to bog down I did 32 miles and just over 4k' on 80% of the internal battery only on my Kenevo SL. I did the last half in trail not eco because time was running out. With an extender and more daylight you might get there. With a full power bike with a larger battery in eco you should get there.

You'd do that with the 750 - 800wh Bosch systems (possibly others I just havne't tried them)

If you put the gpx in the Bosch Flow app it shows you how much you'll use on the route and you can adjust the assistance so you have some battery left at the end.

If I turn down the ECO mode it will apparently manage the whole SDW (100 miles and 14,000ft), though I'm not sure it'd be any quicker than a normal unpowered bike. 

Is a SL half fat bike and motor with a 500w battery and extender the same weight (or as close as makes little difference),  as a full fat and 700w battery? 

Based on me looking at different options, it'll be 1.5-2kg difference in weight.

Motor: 0.8-1.2kg depending on choices

Battery: 0.8-1kg per 200wh

At least with the newer models. Previous gen version such as on Bosch had worse densities so differences might be bigger. Frame & component selection will have just as much impact on total weight.

Edit: Sorry just realised it was asking about with an extender. It will be pretty close as it works out a bit higher per wh than my numbers above from what I've looked at.

By SL are you meaning the Levo SL because those normally have a much smaller battery than 500wh?

If this is possible, then why not the Mary Townley loop on an ebike...?

Ignore those measuring their manhoods by the amount of time they spend in turbo. Just as mountain biking means different things to different people, eBiking is very much the same... The less judgement that people apply to how other people derive their enjoyment, and the more they are open minded to how other people derive their enjoyment, the more enlightened they will become!

As for "what bike"...? Well I don't think there's any hard or fast rules here, but I'd be aiming for motor/battery systems that are known to be efficient for power density and range compared to others, and also the ability to strap on a range extender too if the internal battery isn't huge. This is often where bikes like the Orbea Rise can win out, as at 20kg roughly but with up to 630Wh internal battery and the ability to fit another 250Wh of range extension, that's a lot of power to weight, giving you extra range potential. I'd steer clear of Gravity Sleds designed for shuttling bike park runs as the emphasis with those will be far more on their descending capability than efficiency in general.

Oh, and in my experience, as long as you can pedal a nice smooth relatively high (80-90ish) cadence all day long, you'll be fine on most modern eBikes this sort of distance/climbing... It's the climbing figures that tends to affect battery range far more than distance anyway, and most eBike motors are more efficient if you're spinning a decent cadence so it's having to push less torque through the system itself to deliver the same power at the rear wheel...

I'm approaching 95kg. Last summer I did a 55km,  ride in FOD with 1881m ascent. My chums who all had analogue bikes and because I'm not a completely nobber I rode with them using eco on my Heckler with its 720 battery. At the end of the ride, I had 30% of my battery left. So yes. I reckon you can do the Mary Townley of you resist the urge to go faster than a regular ride.

One way to extend your range is to start ride and do the first couple of climbs with the motor off. A c20kg e bike like the Rise is fine to ride like that (as long as you’ve not ridden with the motor on first). 

A c20kg e bike like the Rise is fine to ride like that (as long as you’ve not ridden with the motor on first). 

There is absolutely no way that I would even consider riding my Rise with the motor off on the flat, let alone up a hill !!

I’m approx 80kg with a Levo SL, and reasonably fit. I’ve had it for about 18 months and it’s great.

Currently in Spain where the climbs are brutal. Recently did this ride and had 50% battery left using a mix of mainly Eco & Trail mode, with a little bit of Turbo at the end. This was with the Range Extender fitted so I used 320Wh of battery.

Extrapolate the numbers out and you should comfortably get 60km+ with 2250m+.

I have the power modes set to Eco is 30/30, Trail is 50/50, Turbo is 85/85 because the standard Specialized settings are a bit crap.

Posted by: FunkyDunc

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There is absolutely no way that I would even consider riding my Rise with the motor off on the flat, let alone up a hill !!

I do turn mine off but rarely for any real distance and climbing is fairly miserable. I'll often start a ride with it off and turn it off on the flat of cruising down stuff if I'm on a big ride and want to maximise the range.

I think its a power to weight thing though. For me at just under 70kg, 20 point something of bike is a lot of bike to pedal. A bigger/stronger/more powerful rider would probably have a far better time with the assistance switched off.

Back to the OP, longer rides on natural terrain is exactly the reason I bought my Rise.

I've just looked back at some bigger rides that I've done (with the extender so 540wH + 250wH)

42 miles, 5400' in the Peak - finished with 30% of the main battery left.

37 miles, 6600' through the Shropshire Hills - 20% remaining.

40 miles, 6000' in the Peak - 20% remaining.

I've done quite a few with similar distance and elevation.

Based on those numbers, I'd be prepared to take on your planned ride but I'd have to make a conscious effort to preserve the battery. I'd want to do it on a day with plenty of daylight and wouldn't try to rush. If I were to attempt it at a decent pace, I'd run the battery down and have a miserable time getting back to the car.

A lot of it will depend on how much effort you're willing/ able to contribute. If you're used to longer pedally days (which it sounds like you are), then you'll be in a good place for maximum range. If you wanted or needed the bike to do the majority of the work, then I think you would struggle.

Bigger bikes with bigger batteries tend will be generally heavier. Don't overlook the effect that the weight of the bike will have on you over a long ride. Its not just your legs that suffer off road  you're using your whole body. Trying to muscle a 25kg bike around for 8 hours is going to be a lot more tiring than the same time and distance on a 20kg bike.

The other thing which I've noticed that effects the range is the way that the elevation is spread across the ride. If you take 2 rides both 30 miles and 3000'.

Ride one covers 3000' in 10 climbs of 300'.

Ride two covers 3000' in 2 climbs of 1500'.

I'd be far more tired after ride 2 even though the total distance and elevation is the same.The sustained effort required to ascend 1500' in one go will be asking a lot of your legs and of the battery.

I'd have said a trail oriented eMTB will give you what you want. Max power enduro sleds probably wouldn't unless you were carrying spare batteries. I bought mine because I wanted an MTB with some assistance rather than bike that power me everywhere and it sounds like you're looking for the same thing.

Although I've said I'd be prepared to take on your suggested ride, there's no way I'd have done it just after I bought the bike. There's a bit of learning curve and a lot of things to get used to while you figure out the most efficient way to use it. Once you've got a ebike (if you get one), you'll start to learn what it can do and as you also start to understand how much you can do on it, you'll start to build an idea of what's possible.

My own preference is definitely a lighter bike/ smaller battery with an extender for when you think you'll need it. Otherwise you're pedalling an extra few KGs around for no reason. Aside from the cost, there's nothing stopping you from carrying 2 extenders for mega rides.

Is a SL half fat bike and motor with a 500w battery and extender the same weight (or as close as makes little difference),  as a full fat and 700w battery? 

You'd think that just a few kilo's wouldn't make a difference, and then try and lift one over a fence/gate...

I can easily lift my Kenevo SL over a locked gate, a full-fat takes an effort (or 2 of us).

Low-powered motors will probably just end up in city, road & gravel bikes with MTB's running either mid or full power.  Batteries are getting lighter/smaller as the Amflow is demonstrating.

My next ebike will be a gearbox one, seems the logical end-game for me.

Thanks for all the responses - really interesting.  Some of you are definitely doing the type of riding I'm interested in on your emtbs. 

Very helpful in focusing on what I should be looking for in a bike - trail orientated, lighter but with larger battery inc extender. 

To trot out the standard STW cliche.... try a few out first before buying.

When i got my Orbea Wild i had every intention of riding everywhere in low assist modes and getting maximum range out of it. But when faced with steep sections of fire road, bridlepath or tarmac then its pretty much impossible for me not to hit the button and just blast my way up. That said, i ride mostly in mid assistance levels and still got 37km 1200m in the lakes last Monday with 27% battery left.

If its range you want i'd suggest getting something with a big battery and go full fat. 

As an old and knackered rider I get around 24 miles from my 625 Bosch battery if it's a hard ride. Ie lots of sloppy moorland or lakes/ peaks kind of riding. Flattish stuff and I can push 40 miles but constantly typing to conserve the battery.

Bike is 4 years old with 4k on the clock.

Rider is 70 years old with 4 million on the clock ☹️

Something else: I am riding the bike more now I have an eeb (Orbea Rise as above).

Was out last night for 2hrs in the woods. And I'll be out again today for a couple of hours. Tomorrow will be analogue bike with my "Amish" friends 😉 Sunday - another ride somewhere.

In the good old days, I'd have stayed in on Thursday night, ridden Sat/Sun and then been exhausted Sunday. Riding the eeb gives me a workout but doesn't kill my legs like the analogue. 

Also - really waiting for the temps to pick up. It will make a massive difference to the battery range.

Depends on what setting and conditions and terrain really. 40 miles in trail setting on my Pivot shuttle lt at Woburn is possible for me but if wet it knocks 10 mile off

Also - really waiting for the temps to pick up. It will make a massive difference to the battery range.

Looking forward to that , I don’t think I’ve ever ridden my Rise in temps above 5 degrees since I bought it!

I still don’t get the ‘buy an under powered bike’ and flog yourself to death thing. Unless you’re a youngster you are not getting fitter , just sustaining. Buy a bike that’s fun that gives options, not limits them. 

I still don’t get the ‘buy an under powered bike’ and flog yourself to death thing.

Different strokes for different folks.

I've got a full power bike (orbea wild fs) and a low/mid power bike (trek fuel exe).

I ride the exe almost exclusively, however the exe was recently in the shop waiting for a new motor, so I've been riding the wild fs. It's fine but the handling is poor compared to the Trek. Now I know these days you can have full power/big battery in a Iighter bike than the wild fs, which just wasn't an option when I bought these two bikes. So maybe when I decide to change the Trek I'd go for one of these, the canondale moterra sl looks interesting,or the new rise, I'm guessing the next couple of years will bring a few new full power ,<20kg options to the market too. Or maybe the low/mid power bikes will start to approach 15kg weights....? 

But I do wonder when a moterra sl is properly fitted out with tyres that won't puncture easily, brakes that work under sustained downhill use, stiff  forks and shock etc, will it be as light as the fuel exe similarly kitted out? Maybe it will... 

Re lower powered bikes. The ability to lug them over fences and lift for hike a bike is an essential thing. At 25kg+ for XXL full power bikes, that's a big difference over a lighter bike. I can definitely see the attraction of a high power bike with a big battery, and see the difference when out with folks that have them, but I'm happy to pedal while just making life a lot easier on myself with a lower power bike. 60Nm of torque and 450W of power isn't that far off a Bosch CX (85Nm and 650W?), so I'm happy with what I've got for the moment.

What amuses me (slightly) is that every YouTube review you see of an SL, they generally go on about sticking a range extender on it

If you're going to add the extra weight anyway, why not build it into the bike, rather than lose the bottle holder?

If you're going to add the extra weight anyway, why not build it into the bike, rather than lose the bottle holder?

Presumably because it gives flexibility. When I only had my full fat ebike, I'd regularly come back with 40 or 50% of the battery unused.

Now with the Trek I can run it in any of the following configs

- no battery at all=17kg bike (pretty much never do this) 

- just the range extender, 160wh=18kg bike, I do this when I go abroad as the range extender is small enough to be allowed on a plane

-main battery only. 360wh=19kg bike, use this most of the time

-main battery plus range extender, 520wh, 20kg bike.

If you rinse a full fat battery every ride then clearly a low power ebike is not the right choice. 

Posted by: TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

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If you're going to add the extra weight anyway, why not build it into the bike, rather than lose the bottle holder?

I don't want to drink from a bottle covered in filth so I'm not bothered about losing the bottle mount but also, why would I want the extra weight on bike all the time?

Majority of my rides don't need the extender so why bother lugging around an extra 2kg of bike if I'm not using it?

I can get a decent day's ride from the internal battery, adding the weight of an extender affects the handling, the range and the fun factor of having a (relatively) light bike.

Would you rather ride an enduro sled or an xc bike if the majority of your rides were xc focused? You'd go for the lighter, more efficient bike as it would be more suitable.

That's not to say the lighter ebikes are xc bikes, it's just an example but surely the sensible thing is to choose a bike that fits with your usual riding rather than something unsuitable for 90% of what you normally do?

Spring is here - just back from 33km ride and 1050m of climbing in the Ochils. Finished with 30km left on battery (23%) with a range-extender on the Orbea Rise.

That'll do!

Anyone here hired the (Specialized?) premium emtb at Center Parcs recently?

Not long before our hol now when I've booked one, hoping it might have higher max distance than the Ridgeback ehyb I hired last year, in case I feel really adventurous to try and get from Longleat to Wells and back.

I got ~70 miles and ~5000 feet out of the Ridgeback iirc from 75% of the battery before swapping it out, using eco mode on inclines and turning assistance off when possible.

Trying to hold off buying something, most likely the 14Kg 100Km Van Rysel eroad, until after we get back home.

We rode the Mary Towneley last year,my buddy was on a longer travel aluminium eMTB.We extended the route slightly as we all live local so arranged to meet up in a point that suited us all.He is probably 80kg max and route it all in Eco mode and just got home on the battery.He said he had 0.5km of range left.I dont have an eMTB so dont know the specific bike or details of the motor etc.Hope this helps.Its a great loop and the Emtb meant we could do it after not riding together for probably 20 plus years

Thanks.  All useful stuff.  Mary Townley was my example of the upper limit of what I'd hoped to do on one charge. 

Me and Mrs OD are going are going to hire a couple of full suss emtbs for the day  in a week or so - hopefully we can get a feel for it before we commit