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...but yeah, I'm just a lazy dick and I'm ruining it for everyone
You're an absolute disgrace 😀
(sounds like a good, typical day out on the bike for me, minus the dog petting but that's a 'me' thing)
you share a hobby with.
I think there's some indefinite dividing line between the concept of assisted pedalling and the higher output motors now being sold and the more powerful the motor the less of "my hobby" it becomes. You can go back to the very early days of this forum and find folk complaining about moto-crossers ripping up trails because folk see that as a different hobby. This really isn't any different.
"...but yeah, I'm just a lazy dick and I'm ruining it for everyone🤷♂️"
I've had an eMTB since 2018 but I'm still concerned by the recent rise in power levels. The vast majority of my local riding is on unofficial trails and as long as bigger features aren't built in the wrong places then we don't have a problem with the non-riders (walkers, landowners, rangers etc). Will the increasing uphill speed for decreasing effort cause more conflict and result in a crackdown on all MTBing on these trails?
So, so much bitterness, I'm not sure if all of you are quite well. You might as well scream "You're having fun in a subtle, but different way to me, you're everything wrong with the world!"
I mean, launching into a verbal attack on someone for the crime of passing you on a climb without a "by your leave sir". Why not talk your problems out with a friend or a loved one, rather than taking it out on random members of the public that you share a hobby with.
A lot of confirmation bias too, because they've had one or two bad encounters they assume everyone is the same.
They won't confront the problem in person though, easier to whinge about it on here.
On my ebike ride yesterday, which is typical...
-Said hello or nodded to everyone I passed (including 4 kids on quads/Surrons who were riding around the fireroads).
-Offered to a tube to a guy who had burped his rear tyre and had no means to resolve it (he'd had enough for the day and was happy to push back to his car).
-Waited for a guy on a normal bike to complete a rooty/techy climb so I didn't blast past him (it's wide enough and I could have). He didn't even acknowledge my existence when I said hello at the top, the monster.
-Stopped to let two people pass who were lost walking up a downhill MTB trail, and told them how to get back onto the walkers path to the tower at the summit, after chatting about how lovely a day it was and how nice it was to be out in the woods.
-Stopped for various off the leash dogs and petted one who came over.
-Took no uphill shortcuts or downhill Strava lines.
-Went through any puddles I found as not to widen them.
-Cleared some branches and debris from a little used trail.
-Put in a trail report on TrailForks for a fallen tree on another trail that was too heavy for me to move myself.
-Got overtaken on the way home by two Just Eat riders on DIY ebikes because my bike is limited to 15.5mph.
...but yeah, I'm just a lazy dick and I'm ruining it for everyone🤷♂️
Here's what I've noticed over the years.
BITD, trailcentre riders were on the whole endorphined and adrenalined up from earning the tech-y downhill bit by slogging up the climb under their own power and determination. We were united in that achievement of having enough left in the tank not to kill ourselves and were 'on the same page' when it came to biking, keen to share stores of glory with the person on the next table in the cafe whilst eating a huge chunk of carrot cake. think like surfer on wheels from your favourite unrealistic movie
There were carpark heroes, but they tended to be few and were mostly ignored by the uppy downy mountainbikers.
Uplifts and DH venues seemed full of ****s. it was like a big carpark bro gathering of chestbeaters, keen to criticise noobs and intimidate those with less than rad skillz. the image being manly pickups with names like raptor, big ballz or something else, windows down and music loud. that's where the party's at. it was like the worst bits of a MBUK vhs.
overall not a problem, they have their play parks.
then ebikes happened. quickly moving from the 'aid to the unfit or injured' to allowing bleed over of from the **** bro scene into our world or respectful cycling antics-on-a-hill. Many have been swept up into this winch n plummet stylee, changing fashions away from natural feeling trails to motorway compacted berms...
The ****s have invaded our sacred spaces, the further outdoors, once only the realm of the skinny and the hardy (and the offroad cycle tourers), now busy with motorised whining and overused singletrack that once gently hugged the side of a hill like a flowing mint sauce cartoon dream, now a muddy rutted scar on the landscape.....
when will it end...
(*rose tinted glasses, thick duvet blanketting and a lot of tongue in cheek may have been used)
I've had an eMTB since 2018 but I'm still concerned by the recent rise in power levels. The vast majority of my local riding is on unofficial trails and as long as bigger features aren't built in the wrong places then we don't have a problem with the non-riders (walkers, landowners, rangers etc). Will the increasing uphill speed for decreasing effort cause more conflict and result in a crackdown on all MTBing on these trails?
This.
I'm not sure but I suspect for many years there was a 'gentleman's agreement' among motor manufacturers not to take the piss with power output. There never was any limit but the 250W continuous power was always mentioned and I think manufacturers were kind of treating that as a guideline for where the peak power should be.
Then someone released a motor with a couple of extra Nm of torque. Then someone added a couple more to their motor and power started to creep up and up and everyone started to realise 250W continuous power didn't mean anything in terms of power limits.
Then DJI got involved and any pretext that there was a power limit was blown out of the water.
I don't buy the argument that increasing power doesn't cause safety risks because the speed limiter is still in place. It's not a coincidence that the Dutch started talking about helmets after ebikes became widespread:
I think what annoys me most about the Avinox is that it is being treated like some kind of engineering marvel whereas in reality, adding power to an electric motor is really really easy.
All DJI did was what all the other manufacturers had (sensibly) not been doing for many years.
Wow, this got a bit nasty and personal!
I know the spot on Cardie Hill well, its a flipping eyesore and getting worse and worse. For those arguing for a challenge to the climb there are several options which have been part of that climb since it was built. There's no justification for damaging the ground any further.
Henry Quinney (formerly GMBN/Pinkbike) said it best on one of Remy Metailler's recent podcasts...
"DJI don't give a f*** about mountain biking"
Henry Quinney (formerly GMBN/Pinkbike) said it best on one of Remy Metailler's recent podcasts...
"DJI don't give a f*** about mountain biking"
On the one hand, yes.
On the other, they just jumped straight to where the rest of the motor manufacturers were already heading (maybe).
LLandegla again... Got talking to a bloke on a brand new Amflow. Told me how he had removed the 15.5mph limiter because, "With the standard limit I hold XC bikes up on the flat stuff"... FFS 🤬
Shouldn't be possible. Does the new Amflow fail the anti-tamper aspect of EN15194, section 4.2.17?
Will the increasing uphill speed for decreasing effort cause more conflict and result in a crackdown on all MTBing on these trails?
I think the different appeal of high power E-MTBs appeals to riders with a different approach to all this so the behaviour may change. But what causes us all the most reputational damage is digging in the wrong places, downhill speeds and being a dick around walkers and horses. Whether that increases bc of the different or wider appeal of E-MTBs I don't know but my hunch is it won't get worse than it already is (ime it's not that bad, depends on the area, isolated incidents more than a general thing, and so on).
Many have been swept up into this winch n plummet stylee, changing fashions away from natural feeling trails to motorway compacted berms...
People have been moaning about these bikepark style trails for years, nothing to do with ebikes.
LLandegla again... Got talking to a bloke on a brand new Amflow. Told me how he had removed the 15.5mph limiter because, "With the standard limit I hold XC bikes up on the flat stuff"... FFS 🤬
Shouldn't be possible. Does the new Amflow fail the anti-tamper aspect of EN15194, section 4.2.17?
A VPN on your phone set to New Zealand is all you need to change or remove the UK speed limit on an Amflow.
I know I may come across as the Patron Saint of eBikes, but it is a bit of piss-take.
you share a hobby with.
I think there's some indefinite dividing line between the concept of assisted pedalling and the higher output motors now being sold and the more powerful the motor the less of "my hobby" it becomes. You can go back to the very early days of this forum and find folk complaining about moto-crossers ripping up trails because folk see that as a different hobby. This really isn't any different.
Nonsense.
A VPN on your phone set to New Zealand is all you need to change or remove the UK speed limit on an Amflow.
I know I may come across as the Patron Saint of eBikes, but it is a bit of piss-take.
The trouble is, manufacturers have to take into account 'reasonably foreseeable misuse' according to EN15194.
This kind of thing is very foreseeable.
A VPN on your phone set to New Zealand is all you need to change or remove the UK speed limit on an Amflow.
I know I may come across as the Patron Saint of eBikes, but it is a bit of piss-take.
Then it may well fail that aspect of EN15194 bc the manufacturer isn't protecting that function well enough.
As someone said above, DJI probably don't give a shit about MTB but the regulators might give a shit about easy-tamper EPACs coming into the UK and/or EU, plus there's an e-bike industry in the EU who might take note.
you share a hobby with.
I think there's some indefinite dividing line between the concept of assisted pedalling and the higher output motors now being sold and the more powerful the motor the less of "my hobby" it becomes. You can go back to the very early days of this forum and find folk complaining about moto-crossers ripping up trails because folk see that as a different hobby. This really isn't any different.
Nonsense.
A well-reasoned rebuttal there.
I'd guess Ebikes cause less damage over regular bikes than regular bikes cause over walking. "I can see tyre tracks and skiddy lines in the mud.... wahhh"
So if you really care about the countryside then leave the bike at home.
But you won't cos you like doing your thing. Same as Ebikers.
I ride mostly regular bikes and all this bitching and crying about other people sharing the same space but doing it in a different way is a bit pathetic.
I think you’ll find that the pressure per square inch/cm is more from the human foot than even the skinniest ATB tyre!
I think you'll find that pressure per square inch isn't even a thing.
( Sorry)
I think you’ll find that the pressure per square inch/cm is more from the human foot than even the skinniest ATB tyre!
Yet the marks all over The Peak where bikes have been are there for all to see. Bikes braking in mud and slipping around cause a lot of trail erosion. Les Arcs anyone?
I'd guess Ebikes cause less damage over regular bikes than regular bikes cause over walking. "I can see tyre tracks and skiddy lines in the mud.... wahhh"
Maybe your guess is wrong? (sometimes)
Not sure if this link will work or you need to be a member
Maybe your guess is wrong? (sometimes)
That article even states its based on riding smoothly and carefully. Yeah, cos mountain bikers always do that 🙂 We never overcook turns or run wide do we? Only going out when its dry, just bimbling along in our high viz and lyrca, pinging our bell as we go. Oh how pious we are.
@thegeneralist as you’re obviously of superior intellect to me, what is the correct term that I should be using instead?
Oh, smartarse, is it Pa?
correct term
Pressure innit?
I did snowdon back in the day on my Diamondback Topanga and all the walkers greeted me with a smile as I barely passed them at 3mph, I can imagine they will soon get pissed off with people coming up behind them and passing them at 15mph or more, STRAVA!
@scotroutes I’m with you, I don’t concern myself with damaging the terrain when I’m running 4.8” tyres at 5psi. Smug is the word!
Can something be blamed on gravel bikers at least ?
Poor choice of bicycle? And clothing?
I love this place, I really do. It's the circle of life.
Do you remember when we all hated everyone who had switched over to riding with super powerful V-brakes that were ripping up the trails with their power skids while potentially killing us as the brakes themselves tore the bosses from our frames. Ye Gods, I hated those V-brakerists. Then we had those loathsome gits riding at trail centres. What the heck? Those low-lifes were actively encouraging the ghettoisation of mountain biking! Lordy, how I scorned those trail centreists. Thankfully, (soon after I discovered how much fun Glentress was), I was able to switch my ire to full suspension (making trails way to easy), then disc brakes (see v-brakes), then 29ers and now e-bikes. It's kinda exhausting, but I'm ready to direct my rage at the next new thing. I'm with @FunkyDunc on this one. Let's move on from the e-bikers (I have one), and have a pop at the gravel bikers.
Can something be blamed on gravel bikers at least ?
That's where we all go to get away from all the motorbikes tearing up the trails now! 😎
I have an ebike and a gravel bike. Even worse, the gravel bike has MTB pedals on it 😀
@Beagleboy - you forgot droppers, and how anyone with one clearly lacked the proper skills to tackle terrain with their seatpost fully extended.
I remember the arguments about whether disc brakes were resulting in the late braking that was obviously causing all the braking bumps before corners but by the time I was on here the arguments about full suspension mainly seemed to be about whether they were "efficient" or not.
I remember arguments in the early days of emtbs being a thing where people said the extra power and speeds would cause conflicts and get us all banned and now the ebikers are turning on their own!
Do you remember when we all hated everyone who had switched over to riding with super powerful V-brakes that were ripping up the trails with their power skids while potentially killing us as the brakes themselves tore the bosses from our frames. Ye Gods, I hated those V-brakerists.
I don't, actually. Perhaps v-brakes and 1000W motors aren't really in the same league?
Anyway, I hope you're right and we're worrying about nothing and this new generation of motors don't result in rolling back access rights for everyone who rides trails.
I don’t get why you make bikes more capable either with extra suspension etc or with an engine and then want the trails made harder so you can enjoy them.
I am off to buy an old school touring bike and join the rough stuff fellowship.
A VPN on your phone set to New Zealand is all you need to change or remove the UK speed limit on an Amflow.
I know I may come across as the Patron Saint of eBikes, but it is a bit of piss-take.
Then it may well fail that aspect of EN15194 bc the manufacturer isn't protecting that function well enough.
.... the regulators might give a shit about easy-tamper EPACs coming into the UK and/or EU, plus there's an e-bike industry in the EU who might take note.
You'd hope so wouldn't you? in the same way we've clearly, in the UK, dealt with regulation of electric scooters. And you'd never find reputable, premium, shops tweaking the speed settings on bikes they sell, or selling e bikes with throttle controls. And someone would clamp down on all the e bike speed hack chips. And while we're at it, dark tinted window, reflective number plates, motorbikes with flip up number plates (a whole group of m-bikers at the top of Box hill on Sunday. All got on and as they pulled away (loudly, due to their 'illegal' exhausts) flipped up their plates so they'd be invisible to the average speed cameras on the A24.
The boomer energy is strong in this thread, old men shouting at clouds
The boomer energy is strong in this thread, old men shouting at clouds
I thought I was in a Daily Mail forum by accident at first.