[Closed] Ebike Haters Talk To Me

Can people please stop recommending electric-assist MTB owners get motorbikes instead? I can't think of anything worse than the sound and stink of a motorbike when I'm out off-road. It's one of the main reasons I ride offroad - to get away from fumes/road traffic, also to stop for a breather and hear wild birdsong, see a deer, a badger, watch a goshawk flitting through the branches, etc.

Come to think of it, the sport.......is actually riddled with cheaters.......and has been for decades.

OMG taking PEDs riding an e-bike!!!!!!!!

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Using some of the logic in this thread, I suggest if you don't ride in the mountains you're not a mountain biker.

How would human power only crowd feel about an ebike that was charged using a dynamo on a turbo trainer?

I wager they already use turbo-trainers to charge their Audis/Beemers/Mercs/T5s/Porsches in order to cart their bike to the uplifts/trail-centres. Perhaps.

unless they drive this:

^ 🙂 I'm hard- pushed to decide who is the most self-satisfied - the anti-ebike cyclists carrying their 3k pedal-bikes in 'posh' cars or the 'smug and fat' ebiker? 😉

It could well be me and the badgers. But tbh I feel more grumpy about the whole subject. I could definitely see an ebike in my stable as it would keep me out of the car in certain situations. May even have allowed me to keep pedalling this last year with a hernia. But I definitely don't begrudge car-dependents the use of either pedelecs or regular bikes. That's the thing with stereotypes/prejudice, there comes a point when everyone is viewed as a dislikeable twunt.

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Love it when any rational counter argument fails so they have to resort to the personal, T5, Audi, crap. Think in the uk mountain biking covers most woodland, hill and mountains or are you ebike lovers the canal towpath and former railway line type of e-mtbers. Sorry I'll add it to the list .

I'm in it for the fun, I'm not in it to flog myself up hills I just don't enjoy that anymore nor did I enjoy the knee pain. I've had an e-mtb for a few months now and I'll be honest it's got me riding more, it's bloody great, I still have to pedal, my legs ache in the morning after a good ride the night before but that's the muscles not the knees (yay). I meter out the power sensibly I don't just ride around on turbo nor have I 'chipped' it. As for strava, it's mixed results, I've beaten some of my old times but not all of them it seems I was quite fit in 2013!

Being 70 I find the 'I'll probably get one when I'm old' comments quite amusing. At present I have no intention of buying an ebike even though I often have to walk steep sections. Nowadays I tend to keep rides to about 20 miles in the Yorkshire Dales. This could be the one area where an ebike might be considered to extend the ride. Also all of my riding friends still work so most of my riding is midweek & solo. Life long hill walker so hike-a-bike isn't an issue for me.
Last summer on Buckden Pike in very dry conditions
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Love it when any rational counter argument fails so they have to resort to the personal, T5, Audi, crap.

Read again, it was tongue-in-cheek and purposed ridiculous stereotyping, just to highlight the self-righteousness/stereotyping being directed at those with pedelecs from those who *may* be high-profile gas-guzzlers with their 'pure' non-assist bikes onboard. Humour-fail on my part I guess

or are you ebike lovers the canal towpath and former railway line type of e-mtbers. Sorry I'll add it to the list .

See what I mean?

If I had an ebike/pedelec in the stable it would be to replace a car where I can make extended trips, and I'd like to be able to take the scenic route, and lug a load of crap/work-stuff, and have time to get back before dark. But I don't begrudge fatboy pedalling an eMTB at the weekend in his 'pajamas', neither do I resent car-fetish guy who drives his unber-bike everwhere. Maybe if some of us engage him in conversation he may (dimly at first) see 'the light' and one decide to get fit and trade it in for a proper bicycle? Maybe he won't. Why should anyone care?

I don't just ride around on turbo nor have I 'chipped' it.

cos that would be cheating 😀

Maybe when I get to the top of a hill Im slightly 'smug' on the inside because I've never climbed it in one before not because I've overtaken Mr. Blowingouthisarse tryingashardashecanpurist. I will be very careful not to look smug next time, I also won't try and make light hearted conversation with you, or even better, I wont overtake; I'll stick behind and follow you up because that will make you feel better.

*edit - 'car-fetish guy who drives his uber-bike everywhere'. Like a status-signalling petrol-powered delivery service for expensive play-bikes. And he's already looking down on pedelec-riders even before he gets to the top of the uplift.

See, stereotypes?

I often have to walk steep sections. Nowadays I tend to keep rides to about 20 miles

You need an ebike mate

A pain free back & knees would be a better buy 😆

A pain free back & knees would be a better buy

ebikes will never bocome mainstream for MTBing for the reasons someone outlined earlier. Above 15 mph you are riding a sluggish heavy bike that is not as nice to ride as a proper MTB

Also battery range is not enough either for decent long rides with a lot of offroad climbing

In the beginning folk modded singlespeeds, as the track riders had, and rode out in to the rough. Possibly some old boys frowned on them for using freewheels. In the UK they rode anything, in the US the attention focused on downhills. Then came Sturmey Archer hubs and derailleurs, and we lost the purity of singlespeeding.

Then came offroad geometry, then frames that didn't weigh a ton. then the democracy of dads old tyres was ruined by terrain-specific treads. Then came suspension stems, and for the rich few an elastomer suspension fork. Now you really couldn't keep up with the rich kids on the bike you got to ride to high school.

But it didn't end there. Alu frames. V brakes. Rear suspension. Non-suicidal post-1992 geometry. Brake boosters. SIS gears. Gears that work. Lighter versions of gears that work. Carbon. Disk brakes.

etc. etc. etc. etc.

dropper posts, for the guy who loves max attack on the downs but gets tired when the seat's not in optimum pedal position.

Energy gels so we don't need to understand fueling. Recovery shakes so we don't need to understand that either.

Trail centres, so we don't need to read maps or ride between the fun features. Uplifts, so we can eliminate the less rewarding bits.

But god forbid a rider enjoys the trail a couple of miles faster or longer than they're entitled to ....

(don't let the thread die, its fun!)

I've ridden an ebike and it was great fun. Riding bikes for me is all about fun, and if there's a shortcut to fun, i'll take it. However the 15mph limit and descending performance was a bit disappointing. Great fun on techy climbs though, transforms them.

My issue with ebikes is that as they aren't really compatible with mtbs in a group ride, so they could quite easily become the norm. This would be fine in my eyes, except for one thing. The cost.

It seems like mountain biking has disappeared up its own arse a bit with £5k bikes being so common, but at least at the moment its very easy to build up a good bike cheaply. This means that its not hard for young kids to get into the sport, either with an old bike from the shed or a second hand one.

With even the most basic e-mountainbike costing £1500, and a "proper" one costing £3k+ I can't see how many young people would be able to get into the sport if it becomes the norm. Sure, there will be second hand ebikes, but how long do the motors/battery last before they need a £££ service or new battery? (Maybe its 10 years but I doubt it given how long most MTB equipment lasts, they can't even make a dropper that works longer than 18months)

Why does this matter so much? Well I can't help but feel that the sport is pushed by the youth, not the middle aged IT managers. Trails are built by kids on school holidays, not by Dave from Accounts on his 25 days annual leave.

My hopefully ungrounded fear is that if ebikes become the norm the sport of mountain biking will just be Audi's and trail centres. Sure it doesn't stop any individual from doing what they want, but a sport is stronger when everyone's goals are at least fairly aligned.

I love how people call it 'cheating' in reference to having a Ebike chipped/dongled or just using the full amount of assist that's standard in every country but ours! Also, it's not a race, so how's it cheating???? Maybe a lot of the noise Is coming from the same crowd that deem strava arse holes for racing to beat times on trials .??? Get over it, I personally don't have an issue, I have one of each bike (Ebike and normal) and all the comments like the ones I'm reading on this (amusing) thread make me want me say I could probably beat most around my local trails on either normal or assist. Ebikes cause no more erosion on trails and as for the idiots flying up footpaths, well you get them in all walks of life..

My hopefully ungrounded fear is that if ebikes become the norm the sport of mountain biking will just be Audi's and trail centres

Competitive sport is governed by regs.

Everything else (mtbing for leisure, not transport) is (and always has been) this or that niche/fashion trend and ultimately dictated by personal income levels. Cycling itself (in the UK at least) is still a minority activity and even then it's still driven heavily by car-usage to get to trails. I'm sure lifting a hefty ebike onto a car is a disincentive?

I love how people call it 'cheating' in reference to having a Ebike chipped/dongled or just using the full amount of assist that's standard in every country but ours! Also, it's not a race, so how's it cheating????

My issue with ebikes is that as they aren't really compatible with mtbs in a group ride

I'm of the view that as I get older an e-Bike is what will let me keep cycling in a family ride. I'm currently shy of 50 and "little me" is 7 and racing under 12's... and finishing top 10 so it doesn't take a genius to work out if he's winning XC races at 18 and I'm over 60 that "get fitter mate" is going to be realistic.

Quite honestly I can't see why people are upset if someone sets a better Strava time than then... what's it actually matter? Cripes I could easily get better times on most of my regular runs just switching to my other bike... I mean why bother if someone goes faster up a climb when they might have simply pedalled at 25% to get there then blasted the climb or they could be riding a full carbon hardtail and you are riding an enduro bike... etc.

Does it matter if their time is on an eBike and yours is on an Enduro vs their time is on an $5000 XC bike and yours is on an Enduro???

What does bother me a bit is that the whole motor thing will inevitably lead to increasing regulation. Most of us probably get away with riding illegally after dark for example ... (seriously who has pedal reflectors) and e-bikes seem like a open invitation to apply legislation more stringently.

bennyb - 250W cutting out at 15 mph is the euro standard

Glad we're leaving the euro then!

Also battery range is not enough either for decent long rides with a lot of offroad climbing

I also remember a time on here where people were calling 160mm enduro bikes 'ego chariots'
Times change

Also battery range is not enough either for decent long rides with a lot of offroad climbing

my range test a few weeks ago got me 31 miles and 3600 feet of climbing before the battery was empty and that was in lowish temps
last weekend I got the 30 miles and 3000 feet up with 2 bars left on the battery which was then used in turbo mode for the sprint home from the pub

Also battery range is not enough either for decent long rides with a lot of offroad climbing

Depends what you mean by 'decent', 'long'and 'lot of offroad climbing'

As I said earlier, was trying to spec a pedelec to visit friends, a regular journey of mine but usually un-doable by regular cycling (at least as often as I'd liked in the time-frame I had) - return trip of nearly 9000ft climb, much offroad, old farm-tracks, big ruts, rocks, bridleways, river fords, X20 coastal valleys (v-shaped), 35 miles, more if take in some offroad loops as is my wont. Believe me, if you had need/desire to make this journey regularly either in a short day or with overnight clobber, food/booze etc - you'd all take the car, I swear. No heroes welcome for a sweaty useless, incoherent mess arriving late at journey's end, and then off again before long to get home. So why not take the car? Cars are less fun than no fun for me, compared to bikes, hence I've cycled/commuted for 35 years. Bikes are outdoors for one thing, and can offer a lot of off-road time for another. I think what I'm also saying is don't always assume that person on a pedelec can't or won't pedal a regular bike. They may well do. And they may well be one less car on the road.

My ebike is a commuter - I tend to ride it in turbo mode. I get around 25 miles with 1500 ft of climbing. Obviously would be more in less powerful modes but less offroad.

Trout - thats about the minimum for a decent ride I would have thought. I was thinking about things like the glen tilt circuit - 37 miles ad 5000 ft of climbing IIRC

Malvern rider - you would need a really big battery for that - mine is 36 volt 9amp hour I think. I take it you can recharge halfway? That might mean you need a kit not a prebuilt bike.

I also remember a time on here where people were calling 160mm enduro bikes 'ego chariots'
Times change

Do they, 160mm travel is cheating.... You see it all the time on Strava... I go down some long technical descent on my hardtail with 100mm and some cheat posts a time on Strava.... I've seen em... 160mm front and back... how is that fair?

/sarcasm off

Someone said something about mobility scooters and people walking. This struck a raw nerve with me.

At the peak of my fitness (30 yrs for me) I was unfortunate enough to be struck into a wheelchair for a number of years (aggressive inflammatory arthritis). With the intense pain/swelling/inflammation in feet/lower limbs I could not support my 12st. After some therapy and in-between flare-ups I could (fortunately) manage to walk for increased periods with walking aids, and after some years without. My independence was compromised to such a degree that it was a major event for me to walk around a small shop. Yet it was impossible for me to walk back home. So I'd park my (self-propelled) wheelchair outside the store and walk around the shop. I'm certain many people looked twice. I learned not to give a shit. This 5-10 metre walk was my small weekly triumph and part of self-directed training to one day get out of the wheelchair for good. Docs had to this had offered to fuse my joints and poison me with steroid and Sulfasalizine. I was determined to walk again. Which is what I made happen. People judge others all of the time, often with only half the info yet seemingly a full complement of bias/psychological projection?

I never 'gave in' to a mobility scooter, to such a degree that over a year quite seriously strained shoulders/neck by pushing my own wheelchair everywhere, pulling wheels backwards up big-hills, refusing help, etc. Ended up in bed for most of the week not able to move head or turn over without help. Bloody-mindedness knackered up my upper-body as well. A mobility scooter mayhave helped at that point.

When I finally got to the level where I. Ould periodically get out of the wheelchair to (say) walk into the public urinal I must have looked like a 'fake-disabled' person. The fact that I had for most of a house-bound week to crawl across the carpet on knees to my own toilet was was of course not immediately apparent to the people tutting at me public. I'm not saying everyone in a mobility scooter is trying it on, or that they are not. I'm saying that you really don't know.

I care about this subject just enough to pop in and say i don't really care what others ride.

It's never been about the bike, it's about the smiles. If an e-bike, or road bike, or cross bike or whatever bike makes you smile and brings joy then it's a good thing. If your bike choice causes bona fide mountain bikers to have kittens then good. Tighten them for not minding their own business!

stevextc:
I'm currently shy of 50 and "little me" is 7 and racing under 12's... and finishing top 10 so it doesn't take a genius to work out if he's winning XC races at 18 and I'm over 60 that "get fitter mate" is going to be realistic.

Same here. My lad is 13 with 5 British podiums. Next year he'll start politely waiting for me, which my 20something ride buddies are already doing. If I could be 20something again, I would.

What you pay 5-6k for something that only does 3000 ft of climbing before it's batteries dies. They must be for the Range Rover driving Surrey Hill's set.

Think we all need to take a leaf out of Pennine's book. 70 in the dales on an Orange 4 - respect!

Euro - Member

It's never been about the bike, it's about the smiles.

Well said

as for the idiots flying up footpaths, well you get them in all walks of life..

Obviously. My point was it allows idiots (not all e-mtbs riders by the way) more of an opportunity to be idiots and piss off those that we currently precariously share trails with. I can't see how that can be a good thing.

I'd also argue that if it allows people to jump on a bike and be an idiot without needing to gain much fitness, then we'll end up with a higher percentage of idiots on the trail. The needing to be fit kinda acts as a filter to get discourage those who haven't fully committed to the sport. Like the stag do i saw the other week, those lads would have been pissing off everyone with a half mile radius if it wasn't for the fact they were busy breathing out of their arses.

Edit* i should clarify, a stag do of non mtbers, riding a footpath on a busy Saturday in the Lake District.

I have no problem with ebikes other than the effect it has on other trail users and therefore me by association.

Frankly I don't like them because it looks like cheating, stupid I know.

I was riding up a local hill last week blowing it out of my arse (this is normal for me) and one came past me about 4x faster than I was going, the rider was seated, leaning back and barely registering an effort.
It bugged me a bit, I'd never say anything to someone riding one and I know they will become ever more popular but they aren't for me. I used to lift weights and I suppose I could have had a better body, more quickly and with less effort if I'd availed myself of a few special chemicals, just to assist me and get me where I wanted to be. I'm just a glutton for punishment.

Some of the arguments for ebikes here are very compelling but I don't think riding ebikes is really the same as self powered cycling. I haven't seen any comments that convince me e-bikes aren't actually motorbikes with some clever marketing and a convenient legal definition..

I haven't seen any comments that convince me e-bikes aren't actually motorbikes with some clever marketing and a convenient legal definition..

People nowadays seem to use 'ebike' and 'pedelec' interchangeably. Its confusing. To make it worse, in the US an electric motorbike is often called an E-bike.

An Ebike

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An Ebike

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An Ebike

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An Ebike

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Frankly I don't like them because it looks like cheating, stupid I know.

I was riding up a local hill last week blowing it out of my arse (this is normal for me) and one came past me about 4x faster than I was going,

Yeah I was out on my commuter bike going down Fort William downhill ...and this bloke came hammering past on his DH bike going 4x faster. He weas hardly even registering the bumps 😀

Yup had that too yesterday at BPW, it bugged me less I figured he'd practiced more.

I was an early convert to ebikes due to a bit of a strength issue and wanting to go out and ride more often.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about them at the moment.

I had a Felt with the latest Bosch system, nothing but trouble. Bike was brand new and just kept breaking down. The motor simply isn't well built enough, the crank interface is the splined ISIS and we all know how good that was.....

Bike must have broke down at least 20 times , riding a 21kg bike without battery assist isn't any fun.

Bike was back and forth for repair, bottom bracket bearings blitzed due to the design being useless to cope with its intended purpose at trail centres.

In the end, I had another warranty replacement bike, 50 miles later, same problem.

I like the idea, and would have one, but ebike at over £3k that basically is very poorly designed and doesn't work.

Can't comment on the other systems like Shimano steps or the Specialized system, but for the short term I feel the design simply isn't beyond canal paths and light road use.

Got all my money back, but was really fed up with two bikes costing over £3k that were simply very poorly designed.

Well, in a months time I'm off to Greece for the summer and, while I'm there, I'll be celebrating my 65th birthday (God willing....).
I'll still be out riding in biggish mountains (2000+ metres) with my trusty old Alpitude and worrying my long-suffering wife to death, no doubt, as I'm frequently out of phone network coverage and nearly always alone.
And yes, big climbs in 30+ degrees can be a bit tough but, you know what? I absolutely love it, it makes me feel alive and yet, among all that isolation, very mortal...

I'll just keep doing this as long as I'm able and when I can't just, hopefully, accept it and do something else. I'd always feel that having power assistance would somehow be giving in.
This is just me, mind you - each to their own.

Bike must have broke down at least 20 times

riding a 21kg bike without battery assist isn't any fun.

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My ute (above) is approx 24kg dry and that's before the shopping/work-kit/tent goes on it. No assist. I have lots of fun! And it winches up hills fine (now have DX-style flats) especially if you've charged your 'motor' with a pastie*. Which makes me reconsider, perhaps these modern-fangled e-mtbers [b]are[/b] really just wet blankets 😉

*No 'speed' though. Except when coasting downhill 8)