[Closed] E-Livid

Well I know the difference between your and you're so I'm not doing too badly thanks.

Everyone loves the grammar police 😆

Having spent the whole weekend riding my human powered bike on an overnight bivi adventure, I've had chance to reflect upon peoples comments & arguments on this thread.

I think the whole 'additional erosion' due to E-bikes is wrong. Electric motors are not powerful. What they have is buckets of torque - so if ridden correctly, i doubt they will cause more erosion.

However, the potential increase in bike traffic - especially in hilly & fun areas near heavily populated zones - such as the Surrey Hills - will take a battering

The main point of my thread was to highlight how someone with a e-bike could match or even exceed the climbing ability of Nick Craig - one of the best climbers in the UK

The secondary point was to highlight how the STW editors are pushing E-bikes so hard (daily Facebook feeds about e-bikes FFS), no doubt at the request of the industry who are desperate to drag every possible penny out of the UK riding community.

I find it a little upsetting how a publication so focused on promoting mountain biking for so long are driving the sport in a whole new direction - and in my eyes away from 100% human powered sport which has been the essence of MTBs since the 80s

I fully agree that there is an important place for E-bikes to help people with disabilities get out and enjoy what we take for granted. I also believe that there is a real place for e-bikes for commuting or cargo moving duties - what an awesome way to reduce the number of cars, van or buses in the country.

But, for me, being a MTB enthusiast is all about getting out into nature, fully under my own steam and getting away from devices making life easy in every possible way. I spend every working day staring at a monitor or checking my phone - completely relying on all that stuff - however - bike time is all about nature, my fitness & judgement - things I have worked really hard for.

All the arguments I have read above from enthusiastic MTBers thinking these are a great idea because it allows them to go further. To me - rubbish - just get out & ride more. Strapping an electric motor to your bike to make it go faster or to get you up bigger climbs is turning the bike into a motor-bike - regardless if you need to pedal or not - the bike is now a motor-bike.

I know that i'll never win this argument and some people just want to easier way to achieve things. Human nature on so many levels. So sad, but so true.

The genie is well and truly out of the bottle. People will ride them responsibly and people will ride them irresponsibly. I just really hope that it doesn't impact the greater community of mountain biking or our very fortunate land access rights we enjoy in the UK.

Yep - I might be a luddite but I'll keep my dignity, beliefs & fitness

Awaits a massive barrage of abuse!!! 🙂

Agreed! The whole, I can ride further, it's no different....all bs.
When it boils down to it it's all about sales of bikes.
TBH I was about to renew my lapsed ST sub, but the pushing of Ebikes is defo putting me off.

simondbarnes - Member

Wtf is "main stream mtbing"?

Riding penmachno within 2 weeks of rainfall

I find it a little upsetting how a publication so focused on promoting mountain biking for so long are driving the sport in a whole new direction - and in my eyes away from 100% human powered sport which has been the essence of MTBs since the 80s

But to balance that, 'WTF is MTB now anyway', as Simon pretty much already said up there. I don't relate to Rampage, slopestyle or even Enduro that much either. I don't see XC on an E-MTB as being any more further removed from what I mostly do than the 'xtreme' side of MTB. It's a broad thing now. Whatever we're riding I suspect most of us are a lot closer in attitudes or rewards gained than the differences in bikes could suggest, if not in fitness?

If so many people take to e-bikes for mtbing my boring old hardtail will become the equivalent of a singlespeed and therefore i will be a hipster and that's something you really don't want to see

jumped the ethical shark

I have struggled to find the words to describe what seems to me to be happening. These are magnificently silly words, and will do perfectly. I am adopting them.

🙂

However, the potential increase in bike traffic - especially in hilly & fun areas near heavily populated zones - such as the Surrey Hills - will take a battering

To those saying that ebikes are just mountain biking no difference, which in effect lumps ebikes and mountainbike together, don't complain when others do the same thing. Imagine in the Surry Hills where the land is privately owned, and there's a massive increase of damage caused by increased usage from ebikes. The Surry hills are a sensitive area, with lots of different conflicting priorities and uses, could it cope with double the erosion? Who will be blamed? The users who are anti MTB will use this as an opportunity to try to ban mountain bikes from the Surry Hills - ebikes and MTBs will be lumped together in the same category, just like all the advocates above are saying.

I see ebikes have already eroded the e from Surrey.

Is there any evidence that the number of ebikes will be the same as the number of other bikes equating to the "double the erosion" that you keep quoting?

Is there any evidence of bikes being banned because of erosion concerns?

What you are worrying about is more people enjoying the outdoors and if this is your concern then I suggest killing people would be a far better option.

I think the whole 'additional erosion' due to E-bikes is wrong. Electric motors are not powerful. What they have is buckets of torque - so if ridden correctly, i doubt they will cause more erosion.

However, the potential increase in bike traffic - especially in hilly & fun areas near heavily populated zones - such as the Surrey Hills - will take a battering

Perhaps also use of chipped, or unrestricted ebikes (effectively motorbikes) will increase over time - people wont be able to resist and this will increase erosion.

The secondary point was to highlight how the STW editors are pushing E-bikes so hard (daily Facebook feeds about e-bikes FFS), no doubt at the request of the industry who are desperate to drag every possible penny out of the UK riding community.

I find it a little upsetting how a publication so focused on promoting mountain biking for so long are driving the sport in a whole new direction - and in my eyes away from 100% human powered sport which has been the essence of MTBs since the 80s

Agreed,

I fully agree that there is an important place for E-bikes to help people with disabilities get out and enjoy what we take for granted. I also believe that there is a real place for e-bikes for commuting or cargo moving duties - what an awesome way to reduce the number of cars, van or buses in the country.

But, for me, being a MTB enthusiast is all about getting out into nature, fully under my own steam and getting away from devices making life easy in every possible way. I spend every working day staring at a monitor or checking my phone - completely relying on all that stuff - however - bike time is all about nature, my fitness & judgement - things I have worked really hard for.

All the arguments I have read above from enthusiastic MTBers thinking these are a great idea because it allows them to go further. To me - rubbish - just get out & ride more. Strapping an electric motor to your bike to make it go faster or to get you up bigger climbs is turning the bike into a motor-bike - regardless if you need to pedal or not - the bike is now a motor-bike.

Agree with all of that. I would add that I'm very happy that access to remoter parts of the UK in higher populated areas such the Surrey Hills or Chilterns have to be earned. Its a sort of natural selection where the lack of motorised access keeps these places more people free.

Andy - Agree with all of that. I would add that I'm very happy that access to remoter parts of the UK in higher populated areas such the Surrey Hills or Chilterns have to be earned. Its a sort of natural selection where the lack of motorised access keeps these places more people free.

You of course ride a rigid singlespeed with 1.9 tyres because suspension and gears and grip are all cheating and therefore access hasn't been earned?

or do we all have to take a fitness test before we are allowed out, when exactly are people with hectic lives supposed to get out more and man up when they work 40 hours and have children?

Presumably you wouldn't let the most stressed part of our population have any recreation because they've not earned it?

I like getting up stuff under my own steam.

I like getting to places under my own steam.

I like that fact that some things I can't get up.

I like the fact that some adventures are just too big for me to do - read lack of fitness!

You take those things away & make them easier you take away 1/2 the challenge IMHO. Then where's the compulsion, the urge to strive & improve yourself gone?

Each to their own, but if you make stuff too easy & too accessible where's the challenge & then where's the reward?....

There is a downside to making things too easy & that's the fact that less seems special & the special that was becomes ordinary..

How dull a World that would be.

I like the fact that you say each to their own but then apply your own view on others recreational habits.

Some people don't want to improve, some people don't see there is an issue with their life as is, some people just like being oudoors.

Yeah i do dread that day people take e bikes up into the cairngorms

I can see the mrt call outs already .

"My batteries flat and im unable to get out from xyz remote location"

- and i know your sitting there thinking that surely wouldnt happen...... Worse happens.

More so the above is coming from a pro e-bike stance as well .... But as with everything theres are nobs in every walk of life so to write them off for all on the basis of the 1 or 2 that will be stupid - such as the **** i was doing 30mph on a pavement yesterday on his e bike ....

I like the fact that you say each to their own but then apply your own view on others recreational habits.

Uh?

I'm not applying it to you - I'm applying it to me!

They are MY reasons why eMTB is not for ME.

You have your own reasons for doing it & I'm sure they stack up.

I'm not stopping you from riding your motorised MTB anywhere..

trail_rat - Yeah i do dread that day people take e bikes up into the cairngorms

I can see the mrt call outs already .

"My batteries flat and im unable to get out from xyz remote location"

That is a reflection on the person not the equipment. Mountain rescue already exists, it hasn't been invented because of ebikes and most people they pull off the hills are walkers, those with the least amount of range and technical equipment.

mrlebowski - Uh?

I'm not applying it to you - I'm applying it to me!

They are MY reasons why eMTB is not for ME.

You have your own reasons for doing it & I'm sure they stack up.

I'm not stopping you from riding your motorised MTB anywhere..

Sorry, thought you were telling me I lived in a dull world.

I suggest a moratorium on ebike discussions.

The pro side don't rave about them or big then up, and we won't piss on your chips and moan about them. Deal?

"That is a reflection on the person not the equipment. Mountain rescue already exists, it hasn't been invented because of ebikes and most people they pull off the hills are walkers, those with the least amount of range and technical equipment."

I'm not sure what your point is.

There is no real difference imo between going in after a walker who's 5 miles away and lost through poor map reading/lack of food and over exertion than going in for someone someone who's battery ran out 15miles from the nearest vehicle access. Much like 4x4 only helps those that use it as a crutch in poor weather without the skills and knowledge to use it to get a bit further before getting stuck and complicating recovery....ebikes will let folk get further from help than previous on regular bikes or foot. The same argument was probably put forward when MTBs were invented though 😉

But there is a duty of care to prevent both from coming to harm

Each to their own, but if you make stuff too easy & too accessible where's the challenge & then where's the reward?....

Not everybody wants a challenge and a reward, they just want to get out and ride around for a bit (and make that riding around easy)
If it wasn't possible to make it easy they may not go at all.

Maybe ST have an e bike magazine in the offing like they did with Gravel.
They could call it Watt Bike?

kerley - Not everybody wants a challenge and a reward, they just want to get out and ride around for a bit (and make that riding around easy)
If it wasn't possible to make it easy they may not go at all.

This is partly my view too. some people just want a manageable chunk of exercise, if they go to the gym then they know that once they are worn out they can just step off and go home. an ebike means once you are worn out you can take it easy getting home but instead of watching concrete wall you've been watching hills and trees and sheep.

I've missed out on a good few rides with mates (coast to coast being one) as I knew I wasn't up to it, I'll never have the same time & potential fitness as someone who is younger, free and single as I have a less flexible job and a child and a wife that works silly long hours. an ebike would have meant I could have joined them. No one cares that they'd have done it under leg power and I'd have done it under leg and motor power because it'd have been 3 days of mates on bikes ripping the piss out of each other having fun.

They could call it Watt Bike?

😆

I don't think supposed trail erosion from e-bikes will ever match unsanctioned trail building for pissing off land owners and managers. I ride the Surrey hills a lot and they never seem too busy. As long as we all respect walkers and horse riders I can see no problems even if trail traffic triples.

As far as e-bikes are concerned, I'm going to give it a try. I was out doing laps of a hill that has 4 or 5 trails back down and I kept getting lapped by a mate out on his e-bike. He's one of the fastest downhill on the local trails seems to live out on the trails. He was loving it and literally got twice as much fun as I did - I don't find plodding back up the hill to be much fun. But haters are gunna hate!

Trail erosion is cause by bad riding ,over braking ,riders that can't corner ,riders riding around puddles and driving to riding spots and squeezing onto grass verges leaving ruts and dropping gel wrappers everywhere and that's been going on for years.some of ya need to get of ya high horses and go for a ride and chill it's only a pedal assisted bike

Tonyb

[img] [/IMG]

^^[s]Ebike[/s] motorised bike user^^

Trail erosion is cause by bad riding ,over braking ,riders that can't corner ,riders riding around puddles and driving to riding spots and squeezing onto grass verges leaving ruts and dropping gel wrappers everywhere and that's been going on for years.some of ya need to get of ya high horses and go for a ride and chill it's only a pedal assisted bike

I have no problem with ebikes just don't sell them on bike shops.Keep them next to the big slippers, bath aids and bed hoists in the mobility shop