E-gravel - enlighten me!

Similar to you I've had some health issues which mean I need to spend most of the time riding in HR zone 2.  I'm now on my second e-gravel bike having started with the Fazua powered Kinesis which had had a few issues so that was off the table.  The other motor system I looked at was Mahle but again that seems to have mixed reviews so I ended up going for the Cube Hybrid C:62 Race 400X which is powered by the Bosch SX lightweight unit.  This has up to 50mm tyre clearance and you can also tailor the 4 preset riding modes to get your 'goldilocks' setup.  If you are doing road and "the more off road end of gravel" 2 bikes may be the best option.  Actually it's always the best option 😉  but if you go for one bike budget for a dropper post.

I bought a Canyon Grizl:ON in the Black Friday sale last year, mostly because a change of job location opened up the possibility of a quite long distance commute (possibly involving gravel sections) or a train/bike commute.

It's been *phenomenal*. Such a good bike. The RS Rudy suspension forks I could probably take or leave but they're highly functional even if it's only 45mm travel.

It's a Bosch mid-mount motor which just feels completely natural, it's like riding with a tailwind and the weight is central and down low. It also learns how you ride and adapts its expectations of range accordingly, talks to a smartphone app.

Without the e-bike, I'd not do the commute; with it I can do 30 miles at the start and end of a day and just feel normal. It's still effort, it's still riding but it's just fun!

I'm also looking at ebikes, after 2.5 years of long covid. Used to do ~10 hours per week and get a few top 10s, yesterday's pootle on the hybrid for an hour (<12 miles 600 feet) before dinner left me drained last night.

Only XL left of the £2500 Van Rysel egravel, ~15Kg iirc and takes 50mm tyres.

Looking forward to using a Specialized eMTB at Longleat Center Parcs, after using a Ridgeback eHybrid last September off campus.

I would question an e-gravel bike, why not just get an emtb ? You will be able to access much nicer environments than you would on a gravel bike and the drawbacks of an mtb would be limited due to the motor support

Posted by: FunkyDunc

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I would question an e-gravel bike, why not just get an emtb ?

My initial thoughts were that I used to spend more time on the road bike than the mtb so a gravel bike seemed like the obvious choice, plus my preconceived idea that e-mths tend to be longer travel full sus which would leave me massively over biked.
But a quick Google shows shorter travel hardtail eebs are a thing, so it's a question of how the riding position would feel on a longer road ride. Hmmmm

Mostly road - Carbon Domane+ . Takes up to 40mm for easier gravelly stuff. Two wheelsets and job done. Does fine for me.

Only medium eMTB left at ~£2k, but wasn't this mentioned here a few times?

https://www.paulscycles.co.uk/bikes/electric-bikes/raymon-trailray-160e-100-29-electric-mountain-bike-deep-red__11880

Theres a 140 raymon as well for the same money. Giant are also punting out Talon E+ hardtails for £1500, not as good as deal but better for ATB type use.

I think you need to decide what your priority is.

Anything powered off road means you are going further, faster, steeper.

However I wouldn’t want to ride any emtb on the road

An egravel bike might be the right compromise, depends where you intend riding I guess

Welcome to the club!  I am probably a bit more severe than you - an hour's ride on a normal bike would probably leave me bedridden for a week. And I'd only cover about 8 miles!

Anyway, in 2022 I bought a sort of chunky flatbar hybrid which is gravel-capable.  Some stuff I'd highlight:

Batteries! I've got a Mahle X35 system. In use it's great. However, it's a proprietory system, which means that replacing the battery is going to be some £800 once we get to that stage...

...which might be sooner than I'd like, as over Xmas I had a low period and managed to leave it charged to 100% for 3-4 weeks, and capacity is noticeably reduced. So you need to be careful how you manage the battery, and one with easily replaceable batteries  might save you some cash.

Related, a larger battery will probably also last longer (fewer charge cycles for the same mileage). Remember also charging - my battery isn't removeable which is fine for me because the bike lives in the house. But that might not be so convenient for other circumstances.

My battery is 250Wh, which when new was good for about 20 miles on full power. Despite being a smallish battery the bike is still about 16kg so a bit of lump.

The X35 is a hub motor and I find it really nice to use, although I don't do any serious trails - generally lanes, hardpack and bridleways.  The centre of gravity ends up pretty well to the rear of the bike.

Anyway, it's really fun to ride, and I've been delighted to have some level of independence back.  Its just really opened up some horizons for me again, which was a big relief.

https://shop.contourcycles.co.uk/products/gt-e-grade

E gravel works for canal path commutes too. 

I have a Specialized Creo SL. Bought 2nd hand last year.,..similar reason, regular periods of ill health. It has been a bit of a revelation. It is pretty basic in as much as it has a 320wh battery and just 35nm of torque in its motor. It has 3 settings that I can tailor with an app. Eco, mid, high. I'm currently in a healthy and fairly fit period and the last charge saw me get 124 miles and 9700 ft of climbing (set at 30% in eco) over 4 rides. I obviously do put a fair bit of effort in. With it set at 50% I'd still easily get 70 miles and 6000+ ft. It will fit 40-42mm tyres and has some fancy spring in the headset giving a small amount of handlebar 'suspension'.

I ride a gravel bike with 47mm tyres, it’s my most frequently Eden bike. It’s great fun. But i can’t visualise any trail centre red I’d want to ride on it. 

But there are loads of bridleways that it’s great on

So i suppose it’s a matter of deciding what the prioritise are

I also have a shirt travel FS bike. Great at trail centres, great on bridleways. Never seems quite right on the road

Posted by: FunkyDunc

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However I wouldn’t want to ride any emtb on the road

Turbo and *cough* deristricted munches the miles when road is a neccessity.

That said - ignoring the deristriction debate. 16mph on an mtb is tedious, I can't imagine how frustrating the cut off would be on a gravel bike.

I was pedalling at a comfortable cadence today (emtb) at 25mph and pushing it at 30mph with a 32/10t gearing

^^ you don't notice the cutoff on an e gravel/road bike as the rolling resistance is massively less than on an mtb

Posted by: TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

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16mph on an mtb is tedious, I can't imagine how frustrating the cut off would be on a gravel bike.

There's a bit of a "moment" about 16-17mph where the motor is still trying to give power but the cut-off is semi-functioning and it feels like you're fighting the thing the whole way. But then you're through it and it's fine again.

It's really versatile, makes a great road bike too but it'll do any rough roads you throw it down as well as most stuff that any normal gravel bike would do. 

I averaged less than 12mph (20Kph) yesterday for just over an hour on my Marasa hybrid, on a pretty flat route to near Horton Heath golf club...

25Kph with assistance on any form of ebike sounds wonderful!

My longest ride of ~39 miles with ~3300 feet of climbing at Longleat last September https://www.strava.com/activities/12385118616 , turning assistance off on the flat and downhill, eco for inclines except last ~500 feet up Forest Rd and Heavens Gate. Used ~60% of the Ridgeback eHybrid battery, took ~3hrs10mins and I didn't feel like death the next day.

A slightly longer ride on my road bike last spring in Hampshire to near Stoner Hill took me ~3hrs45mins and I was struggling to do any exercise besides essential moving between rooms in our flat for days.

Oh, didn't expect Strava link part sentence would embed the route map!

Posted by: n0b0dy0ftheg0at

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25Kph with assistance on any form of ebike sounds wonderful!

My commute has about 1000m climbing in it, it's about 30 miles if I do the full thing (I vary the route a fair bit).

I just consistently average about 25kph every day no matter what. Headwinds will drain the battery noticeably more quickly as does cold weather. The point of the bike is not that it's "fast" - it actually isn't, I reckon I could, if I was properly trying, beat that time on an unpowered bike. The point is that I can do that speed day in day out no matter what.

Years ago I had a commute from mine into Manchester and home again, about 12-15 miles each way (depending on route) and I mostly used my SS road bike. I remember doing a full 5-day week of commuting (maybe 130 miles total), getting to the weekend and not wanting to look at a bike.

Now (years later and a lot less fit), I'm doing 150+ miles a week commuting and I can easily do an unpowered bike ride at the weekends. The positive effect it's had on me, just that enjoyment of riding, is out of this world. Everyone at work does the usual "oh did you ride in?" and "ooh, you must be so fit!" and "you mean to say you ride the whole way?!"

Yes - and I do it because I LOVE it. I don't care about carbon savings or "exercise" or "training". The fitness is a nice side effect but my commute is either 2hrs of train journey (inc a chunk of changeover time) or 2hrs on a bike. And 2hrs on a bike is just a win all round!

Crazy legs that’s a really interesting perspective 

Might the type of gravel riding you do affect things? Of out in a minute for the club gravel ride. Much of the time the 25km limit will be fine but the long 3 mile gravel "sprint" for the pub would see you working bloody hard to keep up. It is hard enough for me on my rather roady gravel bike. The Sonder is harder. Dragging the extra weight and drag around would just see me off the back. Turn it into a moped and things would ofc course be different. If it's solo riding or no chain gang then all would be good as the extra weight wouldn't matter. 

Hub motors are ok but bb motors are better particularly on climbs and tend to be more intuitive to ride.

I built one for commuting (42 mile round trip), almost quicker than the car. Stealth add, don't use it anymore. Fore sale in the classifieds.

Cannondale Topstone 105 E conversion – Singletrack World Magazine

Mrs BF has a hardtail eMTB with narrower and slicker gravel type tyres on it. This give great options if we ever do something where an mtb would be a better option. 

Not long handed back a hire Specialized Tero eMTB with 4% battery left.

Approx 25Kg with 2.35" Ground Control tyres on tarmac lanes, me near 100Kg kitted up plus fluid bidon

~700Wh battery???

Used Specialized app to tweak assists levels to 25/65/100  (default ~35/50/90)

53 miles 

~4400 feet climbing

~4 hours riding

Turbo for ~2600 feet climbing (just beat my non-electric road bike times up all hills when lighter and fitter in '21 and coming down with covid in '22 without realising at time, with me somewhere near my ~250W 15min  threshold this week)

Medium for~500 feet climbing and ~15mins of fairly flat tarmac 

Makes me wonder what I'd currently get out of a  14Kg Van Rysel eRoad bike with 250Wh battery, albeit much closer to 60 feet climbing per miles back in Hampshire than here at Longleat.

Posted by: n0b0dy0ftheg0at

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Makes me wonder what I'd currently get out of a  14Kg Van Rysel eRoad bike with 250Wh battery, albeit much closer to 60 feet climbing per miles back in Hampshire than here at Longleat.

My e-gravel bike is just under 16kg with a 400Wh battery and in theory (according to the app) it'll do 100km on a charge but obviously that's in Eco mode on the flat. My commute is 50-55km with 1000m / 3300ft climbing and I routinely use about 85% of the battery per journey in a mix of Eco, Tour and Sprint. I hardly ever use Turbo.

It's about 100ft climbing per mile so I guess you can work backwards from that. I would not want a smaller battery, put it that way! My last commute was a headwind the whole way and I was deliberately not thrashing the motor but I still got home with only about 9% battery left. Had I been pushing it in higher power for significant time, it would not have lasted the whole ride.

Canyon Grizl:ON

I've spent some time on one of these, with the Bosch CX motor. Some thoughts...

On road (and gravel) the motor is so neutral, so natural, it was a joy to ride.

Anything more trail like, it really struggled on bits of the ups... the motor seemed to just give up when there was any crunch move... such as a steep slab... a step etc. Which was a shame because...

...the fork was amazing on rocky downhills. Just far more fun than the travel, and tyre between it, should have been. An eye opener!

But then, back on road and gravel, it was pointless... seemed to do nothing on washboard etc.

It was all a bit odd... in some ways the build was over the top for just gravel riding... in other ways it was under powered for trails.

I'd have one though. If I could afford one.

Oh, hang on, there's a write up based on some of my time on that bike here... https://gravelunion.cc/article/gravel-inspiration-e-s-are-good

Deliberately rode up some downs on that day.

Posted by: kelvin

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. the motor seemed to just give up when there was any crunch move... as steep slab... a step etc.

I've been looking at the Grizl and reviews seem to say the assistance gets really choppy at low cadence, could that be related to what you found? Also the range seems a bit lower than I'd want so I'd need to budget for the extender as well. As usual it'll probably be a case of finding the best compromise rather than exactly what I'd want.

Posted by: Thepurist

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I've been looking at the Grizl and reviews seem to say the assistance gets really choppy at low cadence, could that be related to what you found? Also the range seems a bit lower than I'd want so I'd need to budget for the extender as well.

I don't think that's unique to the Grizl. The new Bosch motors seem to work best at high(ish) and steady cadence, they really don't like situations such as pulling away in too high a gear, there's a noticeable "churn" on the motor as it tries to work. If you sit and spin, it'll provide loads of really neutral feeling assistance. If you try and grind or if you're on a choppy technical climb with sections of pedal / weight shift / pedal / short power stroke the motor gets really confused and the power cuts in and out. On lower power settings, it's not that bad, on higher power it's quite a disconcerting feeling.

By all means budget for the range extender but Canyon are out of stock and have been for ages and there's no indication of when they'll be available. This is also not unique to the Grizl, it happens with lots of Canyon spare parts. I'm still waiting for the (specific to the Grizl) mudguards to come back into stock, the "due by" date has been moved backwards 3 times so far.

@kelvin 's write up ^^ is brilliant, sums up exactly how I feel about mine!

Range was great. No need for an extender. The Bosch motor perfect for road work and normal gravel. But not for tricky steep chunky off road climbs. Despite what I said up there, it was an SX motor… so it’s probably a lack of torque. Or perhaps the system being programmed for a particular kind of riding. Great for miles and miles of gravel tracks though.