A few of us I think complained to the BBC that they keep referring to Electric Motorbikes as e-bikes, which misleads the public on the legality of them.
The BBC just responded saying e-bike is the term the Police etc. use so they'll keep doing so. They also say their editorials effectively explain the difference in bicycles and motorbikes. Not sure I agree.
I have had the same one - and I plan on replying asking for the evidence that police use this, plus pointing out that copying someone who is incorrect does not make it right...
Interesting. So who in the police do we need to complain to?
I doubt very much whether most bobbies on the beat would know or be able to recognise the difference. In my motorcycling days I used to ride with a Police man who said most coppers just didn't get the training to identify technical illegalities. He was talking about learner power laws for motor bikes but I am sure the same applies to ebicycles v. emotorbikes
recognise the difference.
The lack of pedals is a good start no?
The BBC are still wide of the mark in this area. They did try to fix the gap in knowledge with the article below but it was a very poor attempt. They try to make out that knowing what is a legal ebike is a very difficult area when it can fundamentally be covered in three easy to check facts.
They really avoided calling out the obvious issue of the likes of Sur Ron's etc. by not showing example photo's and descriptions so that parents with those types of bikes in the family are clear on how they should be used. Presumably they are scared of inflaming an ongoing situation. They could have easily had examples of the dangers and aggravation that these types of bikes cause in their neighborhoods. 2/10
Electric Motorbikes as e-bikes, which misleads the public on the legality of them.The BBC just responded saying e-bike is the term the Police etc. use so they’ll keep doing so. They also say their editorials effectively explain the difference in bicycles and motorbikes. Not sure I agree.
An electric motor cycle is sold as such and is illegal on the road unless registered and used with a provisional license, but when an ebike Pedelec is chipped to provide more power or no need to pedal, is there any difference between it and a motorbike?
At the rate it's going, ebikes are likely to bring continual and increasing demands for license and registration for all bikes.
I was in Cambridge yesterday and what confused me was there was a lot of what looked legal electric mopeds, where they had no helmet and no registration plate, so not declared as a moped, but they looked like a moped, clearly had no pedals or require pedal assist and were bright orange and branded all over as "Just Eat", so were not one of the illegal e-conversions where they clearly stick a motor on any old bike?
Not UK, but the Sur Ronster YouTube guy was deliberately riding around LA iirc (for a change in a street legal bike) and stopping to ask police if they knew what was legal to ride and where, pretending he was new to the area and wanted to keep out of trouble. They didn't have a clue and basically said just obey the rules of the road and don't be a dick.
I'm sure most of our police are the same. Don't be a dick and no one will bother. I certainly know some don't know the 'regular' cycling laws, never mind being able to talk about pedal assist, powes and speeds.
I had a conversation with my neighbour just the other day who was confused with the reporting of e-bikes. He had no idea at all of the differences and legalities, and then went on to them blowing up...
At the rate it’s going, ebikes are likely to bring continual and increasing demands for license and registration for all bikes.
Utter tosh .
Unfortunately BBC is now as click baity and incorrect as the other rags websites. Have been reporting them when I see them.
https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules is pretty clear, photos could be added.
The local food delivery companies seem to be using twist and go conversions, which isn't on, but until there is a crack down, they will continue blasting around on uninsured vehicles, saving money over a legal form of transport.
He was talking about learner power laws for motor bikes but I am sure the same applies to ebicycles v. emotorbikes
I would say its rather easier.
A derestricted 50cc isnt generally that much faster so are fairly hard to spot. Whereas most of the dubious ebikes go by at 30mph plus without peddling.
Obviously if a lot of people get caught then people will learn to go for more subtle changes eg peddle assist up to 20mph or similar without a throttle but that in itself would be a success.
I can't fathom what on earth is going through whoever at the BBC's mind that gave you that response. Are they stupid or something?
The BBC just responded saying e-bike is the term the Police etc. use so they’ll keep doing so
As they should. If it's got two wheels and is electrically powered then calling it an e-bike seems reasonable. It's the mtb/cycling community who use e-bikes to just mean pedelecs who are probably wrong.
This shouldn't surprise me after covid guidance/laws but
https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules is incorrect. There isn't technically a 250W power limit, just a maximum assisted speed limit.
Where do e-MTBs fit into this?
Here is what the BBC said:
Thanks for getting in touch with us about BBC News and referring to ‘e-bike’ in our recent coverage of fatal incidents in Cardiff and Salford.
We’re sorry to learn that you believe this description is incorrect.
It’s a broad term commonly used for any electric-powered bike – and in relation to the above incidents, reflects the terminology used by the authorities:
https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater-manchester/news/news/2023/june/update-regarding-road-traffic-collision-in-salford/
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/witness-appeal-after-15-year-old-boy-dies-following-collision-salford
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/investigation-progressing-police-actions-prior-deaths-two-teenagers-ely
(Please note that the BBC isn’t responsible for the content of non-BBC sites)
We’ve explored the law and other matters associated with e-bikes in our coverage, for example at:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65855198
We appreciate your feedback, which we have shared with senior BBC News editors.
Bloody idiots. They are electric unlicenced motorbikes. Just like yoofs used to rag round on dirt bikes, these are the same, just have electric motors. At least you could hear dirt bikes coming.
Oh and why are 99% of the lads I see riding them wearing balaclavas on hot days, yeh they know these things are illegal and folk have cameras everywhere.
Touch shoot if you crash one and end up injured or dead being a divvy.
I got the same reply, with the same incorrect statements from GMP attached.
Guess I have 2 people to respond to now.
If the BBC have a stock response to this then they will have been getting a lot of complaints. If it is kept up it may well make a difference at some point and they will change editorial policy
Would be useful if the police changed their terminology though
We’re sorry to learn that you believe this description is incorrect.
Great stuff.
You have to get a long way through this article before you hit the definition but but it’s there.
Though the police and IOPC both say the machines the three teenagers were killed on as electric bikes or e-bikes, the UK’s Bicycle Association argues this is a misleading description for the sort of “Sur-Ron” bikes believed to be involved in the Cardiff and Manchester tragedies.
The association said that, in the UK, “electric bikes” or “e-bikes” are “gently motor-assisted cycles” limited in speed to 15.5mph and have at most 250W “assist motors”. They must also have functional pedals and the rider must be pedalling for the motor assistance to operate (with limited exceptions). These are exempted from motorcycle regulations.
The bikes involved in both tragedies exceeded these limits and should be classed as electric motorbikes, the Bicycle Association said, meaning they needed to be taxed and insured and the rider should wear a helmet. It added that riding electric motorbikes on roads without these aspects in place was illegal.
Here is what the BBC said:
Absolute condescending arsehole response.
1. "We're sorry to learn" ...
2. ... "that you believe"
3. Not providing reasoning for why the complainant is incorrect
4. Not providing reasoning for why they themselves are incorrect
5. Implying that the complainant is mistaken, by referring them to an explanatory article
6. Referring to their own article to back their position
7. Said article has no references to back up its claims
Utter tosh .
@CheesybeanZ - the day after the first crash happened, 2 MPs came out and said just that. After the most recent crash another MP said a similar thing. That ebikes needed to regulated through law, license and insurance.
What's so difficult to understand? The more this happens, the more traction it gains. As more ebikes are sold, even legal ones, more crashes will happen. It won't matter whether they would've happened on a normal bike anyway, all you'll see is ebike>crash>bad>legislate. Once they have public support for that (and a lot of the public hates cyclists anyway, especially motorists) and the systems are put in place...how easy is it to make the step to all bikes/scooters, etc?
Sad story today of a kid killed by what BBC describe as a motorbike ridden by another child. Not clear whether electic or not, but reading down there is a police comment that it is the adults giving kids these bikes who are to blame.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-66335974
Not sure why you’ve added this to the Ebikes thread. Quite obviously a story about a kid riding a motorbike.
Kids ride motorbikes over my local thicket, not ebikes.
Residents complained about youths on motorbikes previously being a problem in the area.
A number of recent police operations had taken about 30 illegally-ridden motorbikes off roads, said Ch Supt Dolby.
"I want to send a clear message to the public that young people in the area are able to ride these bikes because, in many cases, adults are giving them the bikes to ride.
"They also bear responsibility for the potential consequences and this needs to stop."
Based on that, I'd be surprised if it wasn't an Sur-ron style motorbike. Happy to be disproved though.
To be fair, when I read that article I immediately made the assumption it would likely be a sur-on or similar.
Not sure why you’ve added this to the Ebikes thread.
Did you read the thread? I started it to update on the BBC handling of electric motorbikes that they were routinely calling e bikes. Today's story is notable because they may have reported correctly for once.
At the rate it’s going, ebikes are likely to bring continual and increasing demands for license and registration for all bikes.
Utter tosh .
Not sure it is TBH, our government just intervened had the head of a major bank sacked because they annoyed a prominent Alt-Right influencer. Once the DM and a few vocal Gammons manage to conflate E-Motocycles with E-bikes and then plain old Bicycles (and they will) it's time to brace.
They're not a "details oriented" bunch and they like quick, popular wins.
Not sure it is TBH, our government just intervened had the head of a major bank sacked because they annoyed a prominent Alt-Right influencer. Once the DM and a few vocal Gammons manage to conflate E-Motocycles with E-bikes and then plain old Bicycles (and they will) it’s time to brace.
They’re not a “details oriented” bunch and they like quick, popular wins.
The bike license plate thing's been covered a few times generally, it won't happen. There's also type/class of bikes that make it clear how and why e-motorbikes and speed pedelecs (e-mopeds) do have plates and e-bikes + regular bikes don't.
The fact that the average daily rag reader thinks e-bike when they see a surron is unfortunate but it's just an association, it doesn't help but also doesn't change anything. Morons gonna moron and papers print crap, daily fact. Although remembering that we're out of the EU now so EU bike classification isn't a cert in the UK the commercial realities of product classification in a global market will keep us aligned in most cases - either that or tbh I just don't think they care enough to rework all of that stuff here.
As they should. If it’s got two wheels and is electrically powered then calling it an e-bike seems reasonable. It’s the mtb/cycling community who use e-bikes to just mean pedelecs who are probably wrong.
I’ve read some rubbish in my time - but this takes the biscuit.
