In the olden rim brake days I got a light wheel built up, middleburn hub, mavic [i]something[/i]17 rim and DT rev spokes. Not bad but honking uphills the rim used to rub against the brakes, definitley some flex going on, that was on a hardtail with short travel forks. New wheel build in mind are rev spokes on an FSer going to flex like mad or can I just put a bit more tension in the spokes?
I note the 24spoked [url= http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/mountain/deore_xt/product.-code-WH-M775.-type-.wh_mountain.html ]XT wheel I have now uses 2/1.5/2[/url] spokes (same as revs?) and I don't really notice any flex. New wheel will be 32 3x
I've been using revvies for years, mainly because I've got boxes of the left over from my jeyboy days. Currently using them 32 x 3 cross on mavic 321 & 325's with alloy nipples with 225/205 disc setups with 4 pots. Done Alps, Spain, Dolomites, reasonabe drops & jumps on them, had the odd broken spoke but due to damage rather than failure at the nipple or elbow. Can't say I notice any flex.
A stiff rim and a good wheelbuild is more important to stopping the wheel flexing than which spokes you use.
Good to know rc cheers.
I didn't build the last one so not my fault - this one will be all down to me tho 😯A stiff rim and a good wheelbuild is more important to stopping the wheel flexing than which spokes you use.
sure it was the wheel,not the frame ?......
forks in this case, but I didn't have flex issues with other wheels using the same forks, in fact had the same hub with different rim/spokes before and didn't [i]notice[/i] flex.sure it was the wheel,not the frame ?......
I just built up a set of 29er wheels with revs (3 cross) Can't say I notice any flex in them.
I read up a LOT on this before going with revs and the conclusion seems to be that they are fine. They do actually flex more than comps. It's measurable but too small a difference for a human to notice. The only real problem with revs is that they are more difficult to build with: The small cross sectional area at the butt means they twist easily and tend to bind in the nipple thread as you get them up to tension. This means they like to twist and a twisted spoke IS weak when you applly tension along its length. I put grease on mine (nips and spoke threads) and also (using black spokes) a chalk mark on each spoke. This allows you to see when the spoke is twisting, which means you can turn back a bit after each turn to straighten it again.
On the plus side, their bendiness means they are really easy to lace 🙂
I think there's probably a lot more flex in the tyre, forks and head tube/stem/bars than there is in the spokes.
If you're not too heavy then there should be no issues.
A good stiff rim helps enormously if you want to avoid something becoming floppy.
we still talking wheels gt?
arch or possibly 819 I'm thinking. Was going to use a crest but I just mashed a nearly new crest on my hardtail so don't think it's upto the job on my FS.
is there a weight limit al?
just seen this on CRC, confidence inspiring 😉
PLEASE NOTE - DT REVS are SUPER LIGHTWEIGHT and are NOT SUITABLE for heavy use. XC racing only
I didn't build the last one so not my fault - this one will be all down to me tho
Out of respect NO comment 😉
al he is not heavy but he is fast downhill and will give a rim a darn good thrashing at speed.
I'll have you know my last build is holding up rather well 4months in (you know once I'd realised no oil on the spoke threads was a bad move and rebuilt it all)
and the first one?
Still going strong 12months on*
*after the nice LBS man sorted it for me.
(second one is doing OK too, road wheel)
😆
Next ride I will tel you what I did with my firts external BB 😳
Friday weather looks ok
I'll wait for the thursday night forecast before I get excited 🙂Friday weather looks ok
won't be out tonight and Si is decorating for some reason
Flexy wheels, did feel a little vague when riding them, saw this photo from my GoPro which explained all. (note bars and forks facing the same way but wheel bowing) Wheels are a standard fitment on many AM bikes this year. Going straight to e-bay after only 5 rides.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
woah! looks mental, sure there's not some fisheye going on there?
What wheels?
solo SS in the rain is where it is at this year iirc-
That pic is scarry
I've got some Podium rims and Revs, about the flexiest combo, and notice no appreciable difference compared to my Crests and Sapim Race.
2nd generation cobolts. Broke 3 spokes on the rear within 30 mins under breaking. Pic taken on a go pro, not sure a fisheye would pull the wheel that way and not the frame. It was enough for me to get a strong set of 819's and Chris Kings built up with comps ad staight pull on the drive side.
I managed to snap two spokes on my Easton Haven rear wheel within three hours of riding in Verbier. I eneded up having to borrow a spare wheel from one of the guides and that held up fine (819 with plain gauge spokes).
All other things (ie the rim, the lacing and the tension in each spoke) being equal, the spoke type will make practically zero difference to the stiffness of the overall structure.
But for an MTB wheel with disc brakes (indeed any MTB wheel) you have to ask whether the weight saving is worth the expense, the slightly reduced strength, and the fact that they're harder to build a good wheel with. Unless you're well practised at wheelbuilding, I would suggest sticking to Comps. And I would definitely use Comps (at least) on the rear drive side even if you have Revs everywhere else, because they'll be carrying rather more tension than the others.
Don't forget, too, that Revs come with aluminium nipples, which are less reliable than brass ones and are more likely to round off if you need to true the wheel after they've spent a couple of wet winters binding to the spoke.
Personally I stick to Comps for anything but my summer road bike, they just work faultlessly and they're easy to build a good wheel with. Revs are only worth the bother and expense if you're a real weight weenie.
cynic-al - Member
If you're [s]not too heavy[/s][b] very light and a very cautious/careful rider[/b] then there should be [s]no[/s] fewer issues.
I lasted another 7 days riding on no name hub and rim out of a £300 specialized and then put back in wrecked doner bike I stole it from all nice a true and i even adjusted up the cones for them.
So we've got 2 accounts of factory wheels breaking spokes, one of which certainly doesn't use Revs, as justification for why not to get them. Sounds like factory wheels are to be avoided...
It was enough for me to get a strong set of 819's and Chris Kings built up with comps ad staight pull on the drive side.
Straight pull, or plain gauge? Which are actually weaker...
Spesh specced Revs on the 2005 Enduro, the first year it went to the burly 6" travel model. We didn't have any returned. As stated elsewhere, the rims and the quality of the build have a bigger effect.
As for alu nips, all black DT spokes (Comp and above) come with alu, not just revs. Not a huge issue, brass aren't exactly expensive.
I reckon that there are three legit reasons for not using Revs - whether they apply to you is up to you.
1. They're a bit more damage prone if you stick stuff through them
2. They're more expensive
3. They're harder to build with (they twist a lot more)
3 is hardly worth worrying about so if you want to save weight and are happy with the cost and slight reduction in impact resistance then they're spot on.
"[i]As for alu nips, all black DT spokes (Comp and above) come with alu, not just revs. Not a huge issue, brass aren't exactly expensive. [/i]"
You sure? The wheels I built only a couple of months ago were a mix of Revs and Comps (all black). The former came with alu nips, the latter brass; everywhere I saw them listed ([url= https://www.starbike.com/php/suchen.php?lang=en&b=DT+Swiss&q=&cid=31&page=2 ]eg here[/url]) the Comps were listed as having brass. If they've changed that very recently then I stand corrected 😉
"[i]3 is hardly worth worrying about so if you want to save weight and are happy with the cost and slight reduction in impact resistance then they're spot on. [/i]"
I'd say 3 is the one to worry about most. If you end up with a badly built wheel then it's far more problematic than either spending an extra few quid up front or any marignal difference in a massively unlikely accident. If you're an experienced wheelbuilder then 3 probably isn't worth worring about, no, but for an amateur it is, IMO.
I had 6 years out of a set of Mavic SLR's before the rim cracked mainly through corrosion. Replace rim and wheels still running strong on my hard tail.
I'd say 3 is the one to worry about most. If you end up with a badly built wheel then it's far more problematic than either spending an extra few quid up front or any marignal difference in a massively unlikely accident. If you're an experienced wheelbuilder then 3 probably isn't worth worring about, no, but for an amateur it is, IMO.
I don't reckon you'll end up with a badly built wheel due to the spokes, it's just more hassle to build with them.
GW I'm 80kg, not that careful, my revs are fine.
The weight saving is minimal for sure, but when you are wanting to go as light as possible....
sdeals do very slightly heavier spokes for way less money, ACI IIRC.
Yep, I use sdeals.com for all my spokes - they're way cheaper than others and I've found ACIs to be just as reliable as DT.
Bez, can't say for how shops sell them, but if you order a box of spokes from Madison silver come with brass nipples, black come with alu. we have about 200 boxes of alu nips in stock to show for it!
"[i]I don't reckon you'll end up with a badly built wheel due to the spokes, it's just more hassle to build with them. [/i]"
Well, sure, it's all rather marginal and I'm not really saying that just using Revs will be the difference between a great wheel and a taco-to-be. But twisted spokes aren't good to have, and Revs do make it easier to end up with them. It's once you get to the point where the tension's high and some nipples are getting stickier than others that it's hard to back them off accurately and gauge exactly what's going on.
I certainly think the wheels I built recently with Revs aren't quite as well built as the ones I've done with Comps (though that's also because it's a few years since I was building wheels relatively frequently). But, equally, they haven't given me any trouble so far.
The idea suggested above, of running a line down the spoke before building, is a good one which should get round this - I had intended to chalk mine but couldn't find any when I came to build the things 😐
"[i]Bez, can't say for how shops sell them, but if you order a box of spokes from Madison silver come with brass nipples, black come with alu. we have about 200 boxes of alu nips in stock to show for it![/i]"
Fair dos... surprised the Germans get brass ones, they're normally the real weight weenies 🙂
Wonder why it's just the black ones...
Black ones are more pricey, so it's prob just to justify that.
I imagine its just that customers generally want brass, and they can charge more for alu, doubt they ship differently to them.
"careful/cautious" was me being uncharacteristically nice, you still fall into the category. 😛 even if I was 60kg I'd find them too light/unreliable for most of the riding I do.cynic-al - MemberGW I'm 80kg, not that careful, my revs are fine.
Yeah but it's well known that you are a riding God, neither I nor the rest of us can compare 🙄
hmm, cheers for the info everyone, sounds like comp = sensible (esp considering my wheel building talent or lack of), just wanted to shed weight elsewhere now I've decided I need a sturdier rim.
damn.
Supercomps?
super pricey
well maybe not super but not many deals to be had and only 30g saving compared to 60g revs (and you can get revs almost as cheap as comps)
Starbike.com? €0.95 each, same as Revs, and they sent me 10 spare Revs.
sdeals - way cheaper.
IIRC their lighter ACI spokes are in between revs and comps (like supercomps?)
cheers for the links guys, did'nt know about either of those places.
hmm sdeal's ACIs are 14/17/14 which according to sheldon = 2/1.4/2 slimmer than revs in the middle.