[Closed] "DrP" 1 - "Brighton Bendy Bus" 0

I'd hate to be the next cyclist he came across after you did that & all the passengers also think less of cyclists too. Well done

If you fold their wing mirrors in it REALLY annoys them. Apparently.

Hmmmm. He who dares.....?

You probably inconvenienced the passengers more than the driver. Not cool.

I feel your pain. I'd like to offer full support but also can't help but think that this reflects badly on cyclists in a time where media influence is hell bent on demonising road cycling warriors.
I've had flare ups with mentalist bus drivers in the past as a driver, surely the best course of action is to take his driver number/registration and report him?

No, I'm with you - it wasn't big or clever, but a bit of revenge is good.

[quote=DrP ]
I THINK it dumped all the air from the brake system.

It activates the Halon gas system on the bus. Hopefully the elderly and infirm passengers would have made it off the bus in time.

😉

I'd hate to be the next cyclist he came across after you did that & all the passengers also think less of cyclists too. Well done

You probably inconvenienced the passengers more than the driver. Not cool.

I was 100% expecting this reply!! Dumping the air is a few minute delay, not a massive inconvenience, but enough to give him time to reflect...

In a completely open question - what would you do? I think the fear of people confronting and giving feedback to certain unacceptable behaviours is, in itself, unacceptable..

DrP

Though perhaps I'm biased because I've done the same thing. Cycling home from Uni years ago, sitting at the traffic lights, and a bus squeezed right in next to me - an inch from my handlebars. Lights turned amber, he revved his engine, I turned the cutoff switch next to the door and cycled off.

This "you've made all cyclists look bad" argument is false. People like this already don't care about people on bikes, you're not going to make them be nicer by meekly getting out of their way.

Bus driver training in Brazil and showing them what its like to be buzzed..

In a completely open question - what would you do?

Like the Brazil idea, something everyone should get to experience "safely" like that.

What would I have done?

Everything up to the point that you flicked the 'in case of emergency' switch. I couldn't give a toss about anyone's perception of cyclists so that isn't my angle at all. Sitting there seething/annoyed/inconvenienced/not bothered [delete as applicable] because you delayed the bus isn't anything like time to reflect. The driver's more likely to reflect on his actions if you'd just had a word and gone on your way.

Sitting there seething/annoyed/inconvenienced/not bothered [delete as applicable] because you delayed the bus isn't anything like time to reflect.

DrP

Dumping the air is a few minute delay, not a massive inconvenience, but enough to give him time to reflect...

If a car driver physically stopped you whilst riding and made you stand there for "a few minutes" because he saw another cyclist jump a red light would you fully support his cause or think he was a dick...?

I can understand why you did it, and I'd be tempted to do the same.

But I'm not convinced the passengers would all be berating the driver rather than agreeing with him about what a **** that cyclist was.

Just think of the delay those poor passengers may have had if the driver has miscalculated his near miss driving. Oh the inconvenience, a flat cyclist holding us up on our mad rush about life. Bloody cyclists.

If a car driver physically stopped you whilst riding and made you stand there for "a few minutes" because he saw another cyclist jump a red light would you fully support his cause or think he was a dick...?

If the answer is b, then what MIGHT be an appropriate way of making you consider your actions?

DrP

Mine is:
"Sitting there thinking/guilty/internally apologetic/getting flamed by the passengers for his actions [delete as applicable]"...
Funny that....

Naturally in your telling of the story you are in the right. This will be the same for the bus driver, when he explained to the passengers or his controller why the bus was delayed it seems unlikely that he would say a "I cut up a cyclist causing him unnecessary stress and anxiety so he quite rightly paused our journey to give me time to consider my actions, he was right I was driving inconsiderately and will endeavour to be a much safer driver from now on."

Yes, ME being punished for someone else's mistake would be silly and annoy me. But you know that

Yes. Like all the passengers you totally ignore in the rest of your post. Had the bus been entirely empty I'd agree with you wholly. It wouldn't make him reflect, but it'd be very satisfying. As it is you have made one man angry, who will simply transfer that anger too all the passengers.

But no, great job. **insert cool story meme**

Good on you DrP, I would do the same.

^^ (muppetwrangler post)
Tis true, unfortunately.

Interestingly, the bus had cameras all down the side that would have filmed it all.
I know this as they are about 2 foot from my boyishly handsome face...

DrP

The A270 is a crappy bit of road in town as there are so many buses and they do make you feel like you are on "their" patch. Bendy buses also were taken out of service in London due to their tendency to kill and injure humans, so I for one was not overly impressed when they came to Brighton. I tend to steer well clear of them, but sadly they don't do the same. The major issue being with how they don't seem to understand how long they are and how fast a bike can go and therefore boxing in cyclists when pulling in to bus stops.
Mental note taken on what the big red button does...

qwerty - Member
If you fold their wing mirrors in it REALLY annoys them. Apparently.

This ^

Do it in Town (London) and you'll get a fine.

I understand the desire to get your own back - tried it once or twice myself - but it is ultimately counter productive. You cycle off feeling smug at the short term victory, but you have left a driver and his passengers in the same angry and frustrated state that you were in when you flicked the switch, and the cycle repeats....

Have a firm, polite word, get the registration, and report to the employer, taxi licencing people etc.

Love the Brazilian idea, should be part of all driver training, even cars and motorcycles. One of those BBC "my teenage son is a hooligan driver" programmes had a lad who got pulled up for buzzing a cyclist, so they buzzed him while he was riding along a closed private road. He shat himself, but it taught him a lesson.

So maybe the bus co. wanted to know the reason for the delay, and checked the video? Someone please post a pic of the valve, in case of future need.

(edit) - just so no-one sets off the CO2 flood.

I was 100% expecting this reply!! Dumping the air is a few minute delay, not a massive inconvenience,

Do you have any idea how long it'll be before I can get another appointment with my GP? They are busy people you know, a few minutes may seem nothing to you but it meant I missed my appointment. Oh it's all right for you people with your "meetings" at the university with tea and biscuits with a bunch of equally self satisfied smug better than you tossers who've never done a real days work in their lives.And what are you even doing on the road anyway, you don't even pay road tax you freeloading over indulged waste of space!!!!

Chuckle...

It was coffee and brownies actually...

DrP

The driver's more likely to reflect on his actions if you'd just had a word and gone on your way.

Yes, I've always found drivers to be very reasonable when I've politely asked them to leave more space/keep to the speed limit/not use their phone whilst driving. You can tell how much they've taken my comments on board and taken time to reflect on their behaviour from the cheerful 'thank you, I'll be more careful in future' that they respond with.

did i say 'thank you, I'll be more careful in future'? actually I meant off/* you/You're not the ****** Police

Hang on, before we all flame DrP he gave us one good piece of info here

I had a meeting at the Uni yesterday so rode there (granted, I was on the fixie in almost 'full hipster mode'...).

Takes me back to been a kid when buses had the emergency engine stop button on the back.

Get a line of them waiting at the terminus it was great fun running down the line and cutting off all the engines and hopefully legging it before the driver or conductor could catch you 🙂

Brighton is riddled with arsehole cyclists, its hard to have any meaningful discussion since peoples views are so tainted by that.

If you dont get anywhere with a friendly chat, you can always report the driver to the bus company.....Im not sure how effective it is, but its got to be a better than yet another shouty cyclist moment.

ps. that bendy bus is a nightmare, you want to see it as it turns into the road to stanmer/the uni.

Dr P - at some point you or one of your colleagues will do something that makes a patient believe their safety (or that of a relative) was put at risk. They will appear in the waiting room and have a minor shouting match, no swearing, no violence just enough to be a bit embarrassing. If on the way out they set off your fire alarm to cause you a bit of inconvenience what action would you / "your employer" take?

(a) Against the alleged poor professional practice (explained only via some shouting not a formal complaint?)
(b) Against someone shouting at your staff and causing delay and disruption to everyone else?
(c) Against someone who tampered with a piece of emergency equipment with no good reason?
(d) If during the response to b & c it comes to light that the employee was cutting corners, but no harm was actually done on those occassions, is the policy that this makes b & c OK?
(e) What do you think everyone sitting in the waiting room is thinking? He's a nutter or thank goodness he came in to save us from Dr Haphazard?

Efforts like these are unlikely to cause any change in the driver. Last time it happened to me, I chased the bus down and boarded it with my bike. I had an energetic verbal exchange with the driver which resulted in him eventually offering a hollow apology. The important thing, is I felt better having tried to do something. I'm with you Dr P.

totally understand why you did it. I've boarded the bus and shouted at the driver before.

Problem is you had a good point, then made yourself look like a dick. Point lost in the anger against the 'cyclist who's a dick'.

If you'd have complained to the company, they review CCTV and it stays on their record for a time period - during which they have surprise inspections.

You probably can't complain now as they'd know who you are and harrass you.

Poly - valid points...I take on board your point, but do note that there's a difference between 'effing and jeffing' and calmly confronting unnaceptable or dangerous behaviour.
However, in response:
a - the vast majority of 'incidents' are dealt with without formal complaint. Listening to the complainant and acknowledging the incident are step one in avoiding formal complaints.
b - shouting at my staff is unnaceptable, and discredits their argument at that time TBH.
c - I'd be angry at the person who tampered with the fire alarm, yes. If it came to light this was their final attempt at being listened to, I would still be angry (at the delay) but sympathise with their frustrations at not being listened to.
d - c highlights a failure of my practise staff to communicate effectively. c shouldn't happen if we've done our job well.
e - i don't know what they would think - probably 50/50 like this thread..

DrP

I cycle up and down that road all the time and the bendy buses almost always drive on or over the white line. I might take note of the red button too (incase of an emergency...)

Seems reasonable, probably inconvenienced him for long enough to prevent him from endangering you again that day, and gave him some sense of vulnerability he may not feel when buzzing "arsehole" cyclists.

Bus co. would likely only give lip service.

If DrP had been a police officer stopping the bus for a minor traffic offence would he be out of order for inconveniencing those poor passengers? No? Cos it's the driver's responsibility to drive safely and within the law isn't it.

Just about everyone on the bus will have seen you pull the knob and they will consider that YOUR action that delayed them, purely because YOU were pissed off.

They probably have no idea you were even there never mind if the driver was too close or driving poorly. They might not even have been able to see what the driver was doing from the back of a bendy bus.

I can see what you're trying to do but I think you are overestimating the ability and the will of the general public to think through and understand the issues. And underestimating the ability of people's personal annoyance to completely overwhelm any sort of reason.

So I think it will have had a strongly negative outcome, rather than positive.

Fair point.
I suppose one presiding outcome is I was no longer endangered by the bus for the remainder of the road...
That suits me.

DrP

I wouldn't have done what you did, purely as it doesn't really help anyone except yourself, and that only for a moment. I can totally understand why it irritated you, but perhaps a little more lateral thinking would help; why not have simply pulled off the road for a few minutes and wait? The irritation is gone, you haven't irritated anyone else and people go back to being happy.

People rarely change, (especially so when it comes to empathising with someone for whom they have little respect or even acknowledgement of their existence beyond the irritation/inconvenience you cause them) so speaking to someone about their attitude and then doing something memorably stupid in front of them will only crystallize the emotion of negativity toward cyclists increasing someone's ambivalence toward us to something more akin to loathing.

(granted, I was on the fixie in almost 'full hipster mode'...).

In Brighton? Practically mandatory, isn't it?

Bravo DrP. I wish I'd got the presence of mind to reach like that sometimes rather than effing and jeffing at the driver.
Well done. Love it. 🙂

I am in several minds on this TBH...

Generally these days I come down on the [i]"don't bother trying to explain to a moron, that they're a moron"[/i] side of things, it seldom goes your way and can escalate easily... At the same time, if they're not told, they're unlikely to change.

TBF Dumping the air from the pneumatics, was a better way of expressing impotent anger (which is really what it is) than taking a swing at a stranger or causing actual damage to the vehicle, on the one hand... On the other, you did essentially inconvenience all the Passengers (a bit) who weren't really part of the disagreement to start with... Not cool, but hardly full on life-endangering [i]"falling down"[/i] style road rage either.

I agree with DrP the whole [i]"giving cyclists a bad name"[/i] argument is fallacious, I can't see why all regular cyclists have to be saintly [i]"ambassadors"[/i] while every other douche in a motor vehicle isn't treated in the same way, no need to reinforce the double standard for ourselves... But I do understand the sentiment, people with pre-formed ideas about other groups (social, religious, ethnic, transport mode choice or otherwise) are generally unmoved by evidence supporting or contradicting their beliefs.

So one slighty [i]"passive-agressive"[/i](but not actually dangerous) act by a lone cyclist, when faced with motorised stupidity, isn't going to swing any debates now is it...

People rarely change, (especially so when it comes to empathising with someone for whom they have little respect or even acknowledgement of their existence beyond the irritation/inconvenience you cause them) so speaking to someone about their attitude and then doing something memorably stupid in front of them will only crystallize the emotion of negativity toward cyclists increasing someone's ambivalence toward us to something more akin to loathing.

I feel the need to repost this with some grammar...#bellendery

People rarely change, (especially so when it comes to empathising with someone for whom they have little respect, or for that matter, even acknowledgement of their existence beyond the irritation/inconvenience you cause them) so speaking to someone about their attitude and then doing something memorably stupid in front of them will only crystallize the emotion of negativity toward cyclists, increasing someone's ambivalence toward us to something more akin to loathing.

It's tempting, I admit.
🙂

But every single one of the passengers will have told someone else about the actions of the 'bloody cyclist' who inconvenienced them.

And the odds on this making the driver more considerate to other cyclists in the future?
Who knows, could go either way.
But I reckon the threat of losing his job would be a better deterrent.

However, I'm glad I now know what this switch does and where it is located.
Just in case.

Riding that stretch regularly I understand your feeling. When they swerve into the cycle lane at speed it just seems vindictive especially if there's no other traffic around. There are speed restrictions (and cameras) all round that area.

However in the same way that every ffing cyclist who goes past me at a red light, with headphones and no helmet riles up the Clarksons of this World I don't think you've advanced the cause of Road Peace.

I'd take a photo of bus and number plate and tweet it to the Argus #attemptedbikemurder. Or something

cycle on the pavement next time!

Been thinking about this one. Mainly because like others here I am in two minds about it. Ultimately I despise hostile or inconsiderate driving against cyclists, so genuinely empathise with your position.
However, from reading your posts it's clear that you fully expected the alternate position of people not being impressed,but, were always completely unwilling to accept that opinion. Perhaps a guilty conscious? Or just trolling? Not sure.

Unfortunately, by your actions I think you became the inconsiderate party and lowered yourself to the numpty bus drivers level.
At best/worst, flaming him in front of his paying customers should have sufficed (if unwilling to report him).

c - I'd be angry at the person who tampered with the fire alarm, yes. If it came to light this was their final attempt at being listened to, I would still be angry (at the delay) but sympathise with their frustrations at not being listened to

You should now consider some form of community service towards cyclist/automotive relationship building. Somewhat ironically I write this sat on a train passing through Brighton. Glad I'm not on a bus.

Sadly OP, I think the Dunning Kruger effect will apply here. You gave the driver the opportunity to understand the impact of his behaviour on you and to apologise, and he bailed on it.

Therefore you're clearly not dealing with a grown adult who understands that when people are upset by their aggression, the upset is reasonable and it's their aggression which is not, so he'll learn nothing, either from your original comment to him, or the door thing you did.

Which is a shame, cos i reckon if cyclists were able to respond there and then in the moment with an equal level of force, applied to the driver or their vehicle, then the lousy behaviour would stop. ie: if I get close passed and I'm legally therefore allowed to smash the car window in retribution, then I'd get a lot fewer close passes 🙂

, I can't see why all regular cyclists have to be saintly "ambassadors" while every other douche in a motor vehicle isn't treated in the same way

Too insular. You're confusing 'regular cyclists' with people just doing the right thing in life

, I can't see why all regular cyclists have to be saintly "ambassadors" while every other douche in a motor vehicle isn't treated in the same way

I was in the southbound bike lane there a few days ago and had a hell of a shock when one of those buses came by extremely close at well over the limit. I thought maybe I'd wandered too close to the edge of the lane but I hadn't, he was just cutting it too fine.

However, from reading your posts it's clear that you fully expected the alternate position of people not being impressed,but, were always completely unwilling to accept that opinion. Perhaps a guilty conscious? Or just trolling? Not sure.

I DO feel guilty, yes - as has been pointed out the passengers were fodder in this event.
However, I also feel justified in my ability to be able to have some impact on teh driver. Granted, the ideal would be to appeal to his sensible side and get him to understand the issue. But in failing that, the realisation that actions have consequences is enough for me.
I suppose I'm hoping that there's a Pavlovian cerebral tie between "cutting close to cyclists -> bus being halted for a few minutes"...and maybe changing his ways of realising cyclists are vulnerable, but so's his big red button...??

DrP

I'm hoping that there's a Pavlovian cerebral tie between "cutting close to cyclists -> bus being halted for a few minutes"...

DrP

...Only if you plan on doing exactly same thing, but on randomly assigned days over the next few weeks.

M.

After the flaming received here I've cancelled the test... 🙁

DrP

If you wanted sympathy you should've thrown yourself on the floor...

IF you want to really piss the driver off, at the back of the bus there is usually an engine stop button......

I wish I'd known this stuff after another bus driver in Brighton almost ran me off the road - and then when I caught up and went to board the bus he shut the doors on my front wheel and drove off, almost dragging me and the bike with him! I reported him to the bus company but it would have been nice to see him grind to a halt...

Unfortunately, by your actions I think you became the inconsiderate party and lowered yourself to the numpty bus drivers level.

Whilst I can see both sides of this, and how it may look to the general public and those sitting on the bus...it really can't be compared to putting someone's life needlessly in danger.

And this is what is so wrong about this debate.

Those sitting on the left may have noticed how close the bus came to the bike rider. There's not much entertainment on a bus, bar looking out of the window.

I suppose I'm hoping that there's a Pavlovian cerebral tie between "cutting close to cyclists -> bus being halted for a few minutes"

Somehow I rather doubt it....

I wonder just how many of the liberal hand wringers would have stood up and walked to front of the bus to let the driver know they had almost hit a cyclist?
Probably none.
Most bus passengers dont look out the window they look at their phones, ssame as most drivers .

If the driver wasn't giving you verbals then it seems a bit of an overreaction, but well done for having a word with him.

I like to think it's ignorance rather than malice that makes most drivers pass too closely, so he's hopefully learned a lesson anyway.

Reading some of the replies on here, I wonder how many other 'happy ending to possible angry dispute' stories there are out there, in other people's memories, that won't get told due to fear of the replies........just saying.

Good on you Dr.P

Why would you "fear" the replies? It's the Internet FFS - Toughen up Princess!

"DrP" 1 - "Brighton Bendy Bus" 2 would surely be more accurate.

it really can't be compared to putting someone's life needlessly in danger.

You miss the point. Of course those two things are not comparable, but comparing them is not the point. Tit for tat has nothing to do with it. The debate is wether or not DrP's action helped the situation. He thinks it would have helped the driver stop and think about his actions; whereas I disagree and think that the annoyance caused would cancel out any stopping and thinking.

YOUR action that delayed them, purely because YOU were pissed off.

In my opinion the bad driving of the bus driver started the chain of events, and the OP said 'Actions have consequences',and as the driver is the face of the business they should think more about there behaviour and how it reflects on them.

As far as I'm concerned if you drive like a cock then you will be treated like one accordingly, unfortunate for the passengers but better than scraping DrP off the side of the bus.

I'd not have the balls to do what Dr P did and sometimes, people need confronting.

We've all reacted to some extent, it's interesting to see how people feel about this, and the consequences thereof.

It's a very interesting thread.

Having been on the receiving end of a bendy bus pulling level with me when I'm in a solid white line lane, and then crossing the line, I would advocate breaking the drivers nose against the steering wheel

Why didnt you just note the bus reg or vehicle number , along with time and then email the compny office, with your formal complaint, the driver will be interviewed and a note left on his file, which may result in retraining or suspension.

Both of you then have a written record of what happened, and get a cheap camera to film your routes.

I think I wanted to stop him endangering me for the rest of the road, I wanted an immediate 'action', and this seemed like a reasonable way of achieving that...
Though I know my own industry and the way issues are dealt with there, I've recently had dealings with the police (I reported a crime) and raised a complaint with a private company, and each time Jack all has happened.
To be honest,I didn't want to waste my own time corresponding with a fruitless outcome... Hence the old red button switcharoonie...

DrP

What gets me is the typical response of a ****ing moron "I was in my lane" ie. I done nuffin wrong.
Not " Yeah, sorry mate" anything to diffuse the situation, but I'm a driver Im always right. Bloody MORONS.
Nice one DrP.

FWIW, I was talking to a guy on a sportive last year, as we were spinning along on the last few miles.

He had hideous scars on his leg, and what turned out to be a right arm made out of carbon fibre and a nifty hook for clipping onto the handlebars.

I asked him what he'd done - it turned out a (regular) bus had cut a corner a bit, which he happened to be in, and squished him quite badly. A doctor on her first ever day of actual doctoring had been following him and helpfully saved his life.

In other words, you're being needlessly dramatic - the worst that would have happened is a bit of weight saving by replacing regular limbs with carbon fibre ones 😯

Diffusing the situation and getting a point through an angry mist is pretty hard. Worth the effort though, you might succeed.