[Closed] downhill is the f1 of our industry....

Care to expand?

Yep. It's far, far more exciting than that and requires too much skill. WRC maybe?

what is then?

Personally I find DH a bit boring to watch (except Danny Hart's run last season), so F1 probably isn't a bad comparison - I find 4x far more exciting, yet it's been dropped from the UCI world cup series.

Pook - Member
what is then?

surely weight weenied Carbon XC bikes are the formula one of the MTB world..? DH is more like monster trucks or Rally as previously suggested.

just read it on the comments board dirt website regarding 29 dh bikes. It is the most pointless comparison. I have read it before and thought why compare two dissimilar things and then say that they are alike? Are mountain bikers/dirt readers this mentally, creatively and literary challenged? Or is this level of uselessness infiltrated throughout the world of cycling?

If you need to have a motorsports analogy DH is perhaps more akin to Rallying or of course MX or Enduro (assuming reference to two wheeled Motorsports is allowed)...

Although of course when I had to try and explain DH to a work colleage the other day I said it was essentially the same format as Downhill sking (single competitor at a time down the course, against the clock) but on an enginless MX bike, Sort of...

To my mind Track cycling is more like F1, a totally pared down to the bare essentials version of racing on a purpose built track, using purpose built bikes that are totally impractical in most other environments.

DH is a unique sport, similar in certain aspects to many others, but not totally comparable to any of them really...

All IMO of course...

What's meant by the comparison - is it to say F1 is the vanguard of technological advancement that trickles down to the mass market?

That is the case with MTB suspension and disk brakes being pioneered on the DH scene - probably the big two (only two?) genuine innovations in mountain biking in the last 20 years.

what is then?

Nothing. Downhill is the downhill of cycling. That is my point.

What's meant by the comparison - is it to say F1 is the vanguard of technological advancement that trickles down to the mass market?

I'd agree with this. Which came first, HT2 Saint or HT2 DA groupsets? although i'm supprised shimano didn't bring out an electronic DH specific groupset (well XTR came first and ended up on soem DH bikes).

I'd also draw comparisons to people watching/following it, I'd guess more people have an idea what's going on with DH results than the XC, in the same way F1 makes the news but I've no idea what's going on in WRC (or ICR or any of the other rallies).

Nothing. Downhill is the downhill of cycling. That is my point.

sounds like autism to me; no comparison allowed.

I'd agree with this. Which came first, HT2 Saint or HT2 DA groupsets? although i'm supprised shimano didn't bring out an electronic DH specific groupset (well XTR came first and ended up on soem DH bikes).

Is that a rhetorical question? HT2 XTR came in 2003, DA and Saint in 2004, as you sort of imply, so DH isn't the technological leader.

Shimano did Airlines for DH, but it was crap. As they don't do an electronic MTB groupset full stop I can't see them limiting their market so much by making it a 'DH specific' one.

I don't think you can really say that it's the home of all technological advancements, certainly in some areas, but in terms of weight and material technology and what not it tends to lag behind other competitive disciplines.

Nascar?

Not very exciting, people don't overtake each other, and you don't need to be very fit? Sounds about right.

id say the comparison is justified in that a few 10ths of a second can make the difference in both sports,
so equipment has to be as efficient as possible
and things like line choice are also critical
basically messing up your exit/ entry from 1 corner can effect your entire race run

dh like f1 also has pit crews and a similar traveling circus between venues

other than that they are quite different, dh is interesting f1 is dull

Is that a rhetorical question? HT2 XTR came in 2003, DA and Saint in 2004, as you sort of imply, so DH isn't the technological leader.

Shimano did Airlines for DH, but it was crap. As they don't do an electronic MTB groupset full stop I can't see them limiting their market so much by making it a 'DH specific' one.

I originaly made a comment about track bikes being conservative (someone up there suggested they were the F1 of cycling) yet they don't have HT2, or any other development, just refined versions (areodynamic, stiffer, lighter) of the same steel bikes they were using 100 years ago. after gettign rid ofthat comment I guess the HT2 comment was a bit out of context.

True it'd be silly to limit it to just DH, but cable routing is usualy more of an issue on DH bikes so it might be a better application for it, even if it's an XTR groupset with a saint mech.

NASCAR is the Kirin of motorsport, that analogy even works as far as tactics are concerned with people draftign intot e last corner in order to get a faster run up the straight to the line.

For a similar race format to F1 you'd have to look at Crit races or XC. But I'd still argue that F1 has the more technology and popular following.

I can see how people think DH is like F1, more visible technical changes and developments in DH over the last ~20 years than just about any other field of cycling, but alot of those Developments have been lifted from Motorcycles rather than F1...

The F1 analogy falls down on many fronts really:

In F1 Aero is King! - In DH the governing body effectively banned any work in that field because it looked "a bit Gay" apparently...

In F1 the competitors are paid millions and are covered in logos - In DH the Competitors are paid a relative pittance and still covered in logos

In F1 the Venues are Glamourous sun drenched and attended by Celebrities - DH venues are mostly in the Arseend of nowhere on a windy, wet hill

In F1 you get David Coulthard and Martin Brundle giving informed Commentary throughout the race then lofty and Eddie wander about annoying the tits off of pit crews/drivers to get you all the F1 "Gossip" - In DH you get Rob Warner and any of his mates who are at a loose end, Swearing, taking the piss and occasionally discussing the racing...

IMO DH is far better to watch, and easier to get into at a grass roots level, but I still like watching F1...

, and you don't need to be very fit?

You clearly know nothing about what it takes to compete in DH at the highest level.

I'd say in terms of frame and suspension design it is the F1 of the mtb world. Also, it is a great proving ground for new materials.

[i]You clearly know nothing about what it takes to compete in DH at the highest level.[/i]
a motorbike with the engine taken off, and the ability to say 'dude' a lot, isn't it?

Also, it is a great proving ground for new materials.

Which ones?

DH is pretty much the last place people are still raceing on aluminium alloy bikes, and was definately the last to have CFRP bikes.

a motorbike with the engine taken off, and the ability to say 'dude' a lot, isn't it?

[img] [/img]

I said a proving ground, not a place for innovation. My point being that if it is strong enough to survive a DH season, then it is more than suitable for a bunch of lightweight jeyboys.

[s]dh[/s]competitive cycling like f1 also has pit crews and a similar traveling circus between venues

FTFY

I'd say in terms of frame and suspension design it is the F1 of the mtb world. Also, it is a great proving ground for new materials.

Suspension design (in that there's lots of it) perhaps, but less sure about frame design, and certainly not materials. When did you see any materials being tested in DH that had not made their mark in XC or on production bikes? We're just seeing carbon being used more widely now.

More money goes into designing XC/trail bikes because that's where the manufacturer's money is made, so I'm not sure on what grounds you can say DH is the leader?

Well that was allegedly the real point of the RN01wasn't it...

Honda weren't really all that bothered about human powered gearboxes they were instead looking on DH as a good relatively low cost competative testing ground for new ideas and materials to use in their MX/Enduro bike frames...

That was the rumour anyway (one of many)...

a motorbike with the engine taken off, and the ability to say 'dude' a lot, isn't it?

Have you seen Gee Atherton with his top off? 😯

See Tracey Mosely setting the highest placed brit at the last World xc round at Dalby for another example.

You do have to be VERY fit to race DH...

what! the tours are without doubt the "f1" of cycling

[i]Have you seen Gee Atherton with his top off? [/i]
I have no idea who he is, but I'm not *particularly* into seeing naked or semi-naked men, thanks.

Have you seen Gee Atherton with his top off? I have no idea who he is, but I'm not *particularly* into seeing naked or semi-naked men, thanks.

You are arguing about DH and you don't know who Gee Atherton is? Please put this thread down and step away slowly as you have no right to be here.

Well just to prove it I think we need a picture of his sister with her top off. Just in the interest of, err, balance and all that.

I said a proving ground, not a place for innovation. My point being that if it is strong enough to survive a DH season, then it is more than suitable for a bunch of lightweight jeyboys.

So why did it work more allong the lines of;

"if it is strong enough to survive a [i]XC[/i] season, then it is more than suitable for [i]being made 5x heavier for DH[/i]"

See Tracey Mosely setting the highest placed brit at the last World xc round at Dalby for another example.

Errr, no she wasn't, Annie Last was 14th @ 3 minutes, Maddie Horton 53rd, Tracey Moseley 69th, a lap down.

It's a different fitness. A top XC racing friend rode with Steve Peat, who was extremely open about his lack of XC type fitness and ability to ride up hill, he ate a lot of cakes too. I'm generally quicker than Tracey Moseley in XC races, and she's a hell of a lot quicker down hill!

Why would they be fast for 2 hours, not really a requirement of their sport!?

To clear up any ambiguity about this thread; I am not particularly a f1 fan.

timetrialling is the f1 of the bicycle world

I have no idea who he is, but I'm not *particularly* into seeing naked or semi-naked men, thanks.

*very*.....

Yeah, sure you aren't.......

[Tangent]

I find 4x far more exciting, yet it's been dropped from the UCI world cup series.

Just leafing back through the thread spotted the above, and Yep I agree, as a "Made for TV" MTB race format I don't think you could do much better than 4X there's an article on the UCI dropping 4X WC rounds in issue 17 of Wideopen I was reading the other day, essentially it gives the impression that 4X was dropped because the Yanks have lost interest in it and hence any really lucrative TV/Sponsors etc have dried up it all seems very Sad...
There will be a 4X World Champs still but really what's the point? Seems like a token gesture to a very young sport the UCi have done their best to kill off...
I have no doubt something will emerge but what and when who knows...
Actually talking of break away series here does DH1 stand at the minute? all seems to have gone a bit quiet lately...

[/Tangent]

because DH requires more testing and development of materials to ensure that the material is strong enough to survive the rigours of the race season, yet lightweight enough to be competetive. This will often lead to new technologies that then filter down to other disciplines.

OK, maybe DH doesn't lead the way in utilising new materials, but it certainly helps refine and improve the application of them.

What you on about downhill isnt even cycling.

Its falling off a cliff with style, but nothing to do with cycling.

XC is the WRC

Road is F1

XC is the WRC

I like to tease my DH friends that it's really just fat boys rolling down hills they can't climb.

But really it is one of the most testing environments in the bike world for the bike and the courage/toughness required from the riders is something I couldn't hope to match.

I'm not sure that the technical development that happens in DH benefits the rest of us though.

[i]You are arguing about DH and you don't know who Gee Atherton is? Please put this thread down and step away slowly as you have no right to be here[/i]

[checks forum rules] No, nothing in there about right not to be on a thread because you don't know who a person is. I'm not sure why you have to know who a person is in order to have an opinion on a sport? I wasn't expressing an opinion on Guy Atherton.

the point being that if you knew anything about DH racing, you would know who Gee Atherton is.

[i]if you knew anything about DH racing[/i]
I know it's about riding bicycles down a hill as fast as you can. Does that help? It seems from the name that that is fairly key to the 'sport'. Is there something more to it?

I have just Googled said person. 2010 World Champion. I don't know who the 2010 Darts world champion is, but I know that darts is about throwing darts at a board.

I loved following the DH WC last season and the champs was gripping. But probably enjoyed coverage of the WC 4X more. The head-to-head knockout format, and the fact you can see the whole of every race is brilliant TV. I particularly liked the rougher, multi-line tracks as this makes it more distinct from BMX. The mental and physical agility, bike skills and raw physical power on display are astonishing.

I made an effort to watch the procession that is XC racing but it is just trying to observe paint dry. I really enjoyed coverage of the TDF because it's more complete and so obviously tactical, less predictable - there is real drama.

downhill mountain biking. pretty sure bike is an abbreviation of bicycle. so it is cycling. TO do well at regional level you have to be pretty fit and skilled; national level even more so and finally world cup level. These people are professional athletes. If you could get down lets say ft william in 4minutes 30 seconds then maybe you are in the wrong job. I think I am reasonably fit and alright on a bike. Not got the exact time but 6 minutes or there about. BDS winners 5ish minutes. It is hard on body, mind and bike. It isn't similar to f1 though. Also Gee atherton raced a motorbike down ft william and beat it. For those that don't know (stevewhyte & andyp)