[Closed] Doored. What next?

[i]free legal cover with the house insurance so I guess that's the first route to take[/i]

Yep, that is what I'd do. Just call your contents insurance provider and explain. They'll tell you what to do.
Good luck and I hope the bastards don't put your premiums up for something totallly not your fault.

Apparently using the legal cover doesn't affect premiums, unlike if I'd just claimed directly for the damage under contents cover.

The free legal cover with your house policy will be focussed on protecting you from someone making a claim against you, the best you'll get is a referral to an ambulance chaser, but it's no hassle to check I suppose.

If you really don't want to claim for personal injury, no win no fee type lawyers won't be interested as there's nothing in it for them. Your best bet is to get the insurance details off door dude and contact them directly.

Voice of experience here. Good luck!

You should go to hospital to get checked out anyway, if at a later date you find an injury is giving you problems then at least there's a record of you attending the hospital.
Don't take his word for it that he accepts he was to blame. People can change their minds once they get home and think about things a bit.
Make a note of the time of the accident, road conditions, did you have lights on? Do a sketch of the roadplan at the accident site and where you and the car were.
Think yourself lucky! People have been thrown into the path of oncoming traffic from similar accidents.

Write down everything. Claim everything and sue him till the pips squeak. If you don't want the money you can always donate the excess to charity. Think of it as service to the safety of cyclists in the future.

If you really don't want to claim for personal injury, no win no fee type lawyers won't be interested as there's nothing in it for them. Your best bet is to get the insurance details off door dude and contact them directly.

I tried this when I was taken out by a car... his insurance company referred me to an ambulance chaser too!

I tried this when I was taken out by a car... his insurance company referred me to an ambulance chaser too!

They’re not daft are they, if they know they will be paying out they may as well get a referral fee back from the ambulance chaser.
Instant 10% saving in the inevitable payout 😉

Feeling pretty sore this morning! Turns out the insurer he told me he was with wasn't correct, but found an [url= http://www.askmid.com/ ]online tool[/url] which gave me the correct one. Quick call to report the incident and expect a call back soon after they've spoken to the driver.

The broken parts amount to around £350 (new wheel, pannier bag, helmet). Another £250 if the frame and fork are to be replaced. Not sure what the going rate is for a bruised arse, knee, elbow etc. Add a reasonable hourly rate for all the hassle and it quickly adds up. Hoping they just offer a reasonable settlement without having to use the ambulance chasers.

Sorry to hear that, sounds like you did all the right stuff

This scenario is one of the reasons I joined British Cycling (for the insurance and legal cover)

This scenario is one of the reasons I joined British Cycling (for the insurance and legal cover)

Looking at re-joining as I now commute solely by bike, and this is a situation I can also see happening to me. Are BC still a good option in terms of cover for an accident ?

Hope you start to feel better soon Mowgli.

^^^ I joined CTC (now cycling UK) purely for the public liability insurance (i.e. if you cause an accident). Never had to use the service but in the event of you getting injured (non-fault) don't they just hand you off to their tame ambulance chasers? i.e. no real benefit since you could just pick up the phone and call them direct? Would be the same with BC I'm sure.

Not been in OP's situation but I think I'd be straight onto the ambulance chasers, going to be a lot of legwork otherwise getting quotes, getting stuff repaired, etc, especially if the guy starts messing you about (given you the wrong insurer already, what's that about?!) Also hopefully Police will have something to say to him for multiple infractions of Highway Code.

When I got hit I got details of the guys insurance. He gave them to me but so did the police - you are under obligation to report the incident in 24h.

I phoned them up and talked to them. All they wanted was a breakdown of what I thought needed replacing. When I didn't put in an injury claim they seemed very keen to settle. No questions cheque (about £300 for clothing) in a few days!

If you knackered your wheel then consider asking a bike shop to check the bike. Maybe the fork/steerer and bars took a beating.

Injury cost £££s so if you are only claiming material goods they should be reasonable. I chalked up hassle to one of those things. It was some small concellation that my commuting kit is old mtb kit so I replaced a lot of nearly knackered clothing with brand new stuff.

Good luck, hope you recover well.

Not disputing the incident, but why replace the whole wheel, when only the rim and spokes were damaged? No way the hub was toasted.

Not disputing the incident, but why replace the whole wheel, when only the rim and spokes were damaged? No way the hub was toasted.

I did think that. But what if the flange cracks 6 months down the line? Buckling a rim does put a lot more load through some of the spokes. Given how much it seems I might be able to screw out of them of personal injury, I think sorting the bike out properly will be a cheap option to settle for quickly.

I bet if you take the whole bike to a bike shop, the bike shop would prob write off the whole bike. That's been our experience twice.

Does it become a Cat D bike when you buy it back then?

I only went with BC over CUK as they have the 10% discount in halfords and CRC, which gets used every now and then, I was shallow

I did think that. But what if the flange cracks 6 months down the line? Buckling a rim does put a lot more load through some of the spokes. Given how much it seems I might be able to screw out of them of personal injury, I think sorting the bike out properly will be a cheap option to settle for quickly.

That and seeing as you have to rebuild the wheel to replace the bearings in those, it seems worthwhile to do do the same the other way round too.

Does it become a Cat D bike when you buy it back then?

D - Can be repaired and put back on the road
C - As D but requires a check by VOSA before it can go back on the road
B - For parts only
A - Must be disposed of (crushed, scrap, whatever, the parts can't be re-used)

The 1st time was in the UK. After someone driving into me at low speed, the rear wheel (IIRC) was bent. Took it to bike shop and to my surprise he did a full quote for the whole bike that I had built up myself. I was with Britsh Cycling at the time, their legal team took it forward, and several months down the line I got written a cheque for the price of bike plus some. No assesors, no request to destroy the bike, no statement it was to replace the bike etc.

2nd time it was Mrs Mugsy who got wiped out in France (our home). Bike shop did full quote for replacement of frame and forks (forks had a hairline crack through them), wheels, STi's, saddle, stem, seatpost, derailleurs (may the brakes were good I can't remember...). Got the money. Took it to same bike shop and things were arranged.

Not wanting to start a big argument but I am curious how it's the drivers fault. Assuming the car was parked and OP rode into his open door. To my mind that's the cyclists fault for not leaving sufficient space regardless of whether the driver looked before opening his door (from a legal perspective, morally I'm with OP).
Obviously we all ride too close to parked cars to avoid the beeps from cars, but that won't affect fault in the eyes of the law surely?

lustyd - Member
Not wanting to start a big argument but I am curious how it's the drivers fault. Assuming the car was parked and OP rode into his open door. To my mind that's the cyclists fault for not leaving sufficient space regardless of whether the driver looked before opening his door (from a legal perspective, morally I'm with OP).
Obviously we all ride too close to parked cars to avoid the beeps from cars, but that won't affect fault in the eyes of the law surely?

This is a trolling post surely?

Not wanting to start a big argument

I suspect you will though......

My 2p, I've been doored once, many years ago, it won't happen again. other drivers can beep as much as they want, I'm leaving enough space and more.

In my mind it's [u]entirely [/u]the driver's fault, he didn't check it was safe which is particularly pertinent given only last week CUK was 'all over' the news advocating the dutch reach.

But that said, my position on all these things is what could [u][b]I[/b][/u] have done differently to mitigate the risk even if it wasn't my fault, which is where the opening statement comes back in. We shouldn't have to, but it's not great consolation thinking 'that wasn't my fault' as you bounce down the road or worse.

Lustyd, you're wrong, obviously. But especially so in this case as the car was parked illegally in a bus stop, and it was only about a door width to the middle of the road (and on coming traffic). Normally I do leave a load of space, but it simply wasn't possible in this case, as traffic was queueing on the other side.

And besides, it's the drivers responsibility to check before opening the door. Obviously. That said, I do normally leave 1m to parked cars where possible.

Lusty - so in that case if you were driving your car past a line of parked cars and someone opened a door that you hit, then that's your fault not theirs as well?

Yes Joe, hitting things is usually the fault of the person in charge of the vehicle unless the other party was doing something illegal. Hence my (non trolling) question. If a child runs out between parked cars it's the drivers fault too as there's an expectation that you're driving safely and anticipating such issues.

Highway Code rule 239

you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic

hitting things is usually the fault of the person in charge of the vehicle unless the other party was doing something illegal.

Thanks Jon that's what I was after 🙂 there's also a rule about watching for parked cars opening doors but it's not a must so this one takes priority

thisisnotaspoon - Member

D - Can be repaired and put back on the road
C - As D but requires a check by VOSA before it can go back on the road
B - For parts only
A - Must be disposed of (crushed, scrap, whatever, the parts can't be re-used)

Its worth noting that most insurers use CAT C when a car has incurred structural damage and CAT D to indicate either cosmetic or potential powertrain damage.

i wouldnt be worried about the driver changing his mind with regards to accepting fault - in my experience when the driver didn't accept fault his insurance company looked at the facts and decided in my favour. Just took the bike to LBS to get quote for replacement and all was sorted fairly quickly.

there's also a rule about watching for parked cars opening doors but it's not a must so this one takes priority

in further reading, even though it's a highway code 'must' rule which IIRC means it is part of the road traffic act, it's not as black and white as it could be.

This case seems pretty clear - a door opened into a cyclist or just in front of a cyclist who has no time to react would clearly be the drivers fault.

OTOH, if you'd for example opened a door so you could lift say a child seat or a box out, moved that to the pavement, and in the meantime a cyclist or motorist came up the road not paying attention and rode into the open door, while you might argue you shouldn't leave a door open in the road it's also clearly the other parties responsibility at least partially for not paying attention.

Which then makes that description as a 'must/must not' rules still slightly grey - how far in advance does it have to be before you ride into an open door vs have a door opened on you.

Again, this one seems clear and hope the OP heals fast and is not inconvenienced by the incident. And sod inconveniencing other drivers next time, this sort of incident can maim or kill.

lustyd - Member - Obviously we all ride too close to parked cars to avoid the beeps from cars

...speak for yourself... And its scary that someone here had to be told that opening your door into traffic is a 'must not' versus 'take care' for opening doors in your path.

On the other hand, a kid running out in front of you is not automatically the drivers fault...they would take into account speed/type of road/distractions etc...was the driver taking reasonable care. The kid could run into the wing/be hit by a door mirror...who do you deem at fault?

@spooky the word must has a very specific meaning in this context. The two rules we're talking about cover both sides of the coin. One is a legal requirement not to open your door with oncoming vehicles and the other is just a rule (aka not a law) telling you to drive slowly and watch out for opening doors and kids between parked cars.
Obviously I knew we should be careful opening doors. The difference is knowing it's illegal to do so, and that affects the blame.

The "must" is "must not hit" not "must not open when something might come up and hit at some point in the future". Not to put any blame on the OP in this case but there is surely a bit of a grey region when opening a door that is subsequently ridden into would be the fault of the bike rider not the car driver.

Always swerve into a door. That way you may get a soft landing cushioned by the doorer and also educate that person why it's not a good idea.

If you swerve the other way you risk getting taken out by traffic and the doorer escapes unscathed.

Opening a door, drivers or passengers is the responsibility of the driver, so totally his fault. Well proven in court.

Main issue is folk soon change their mind when they see the 'price' of bike parts - 'bikes only cost £100'..

British Cycling Member for over 30 years and they have helped me out numerous times. They contract with Leigh Day solicitors, but you should be able to speak to their cycling team and they will represent you without BC membership.

They are currently representing me after a driver broke my spine two years ago - 6 1/2 weeks in hospital and 3-4 months in a spinal brace. It's unfortunately left me with permanent pain and stiffness and it restricts my cycling. I've switched to MTB only now, or the turbo as I've been hit too many times, and this last one was close to being in a wheel chair - I've been very lucky according to every surgeon I've spoken too.

Slight update. Turns out the driver gave me both the wrong insurer and the wrong phone number (doesn't work, disconnected it seems). IDed his actual insurer from the reg plate, but they won't respond till they've spoken to him - and they have the same mobile number he gave me. Report this to police, but in the mean time I've no way of making any progress. Any ideas? I know his name, car reg, and which city he lives in...

Hmmm. That's a bit shit.
If you know his name & where he lives (roughly) could you do a 192.com search for his landline?

I think you have to register/pay to do that though...

but they won't respond till they've spoken to him

I can't see that there is any way to make rapid progress, but these things always take longer than you'd like/expect even in the best circumstances. You'll just have to keep pushing his insurers and the police, (there must be the chance of them looking to prosecute for supplying false information after an accident?!)

I was lucky that I had another bike I could ride while my claim was getting sorted. If you haven't you might just have to pay for repairs yourself and keep your fingers crossed it all gets paid out in the end. 🙁

or just hand it off to the ambulance chasers to rid yourself of the legwork.

In this case, if the other person (or their insurer) is being intentionally obstructive, I think my conscience would have less problem with setting the dogs onto them...

I'd be speaking to the police in these circumstances - tell them that he's given you false details and ask if they can help you get the right ones. It's something they're supposed to help with I think and it might encourage them to chase him.

Regarding "ambulance chasers" - well that's one term for legitimate no win no fee solicitors I suppose, but none of the decent ones I'm aware of do actually chase ambulances or anything close to that. I don't know why people feel the need to knock them when they provide a useful service and it's not unreasonable for them to make a living out of providing this service - the decent ones aren't actually trying to rip anybody off. Meanwhile it's not actually such companies driving up insurance costs, it's the drivers who cause avoidable collisions who do that (along with claims management companies, but that's another topic entirely).

If you have injuries you want to claim for (and I don't see why you shouldn't claim if you are injured) then you'll probably need to engage a solicitor. If you have legal cover on your home insurance then it probably will pay for one rather than you having to go no-win-no-fee - mine did when I last made a claim involving injuries. I've always used https://bikeline.co.uk/ for cycling incidents, though clearly other options which have been suggested are just as good - you should be able to use a solicitor of your choice paid for by your home insurance rather than having to use one they choose.

In an accident where injury has occurred aren't they required to be involved / informed, if a certificate of insurance is not provided there and then?

I'd kind of assume producing incorrect details doesn't quite match with that requirement, same with a wrong phone number starts to smell a bit stinky...... I'd be down to the police station pronto now.

none of the decent ones I'm aware of do actually chase ambulances or anything close to that.

You may be right about tarring them all with the same brush mind, we, (cyclists) don't like it that happens to us.

I think Daern has a good point.

[quote=tthew ]Unfortunately there's a lot of very much un-decent ones who cold call to drum up business based on exaggerated injuries.

So avoid those, and choose somebody to use from the usual recommendations who are all perfectly decent. Maybe it would be better if "ambulance chasers" wasn't used as a generic term to include those who don't?

Personally I don't have any problem at all with other people's insurance costs increasing when they've caused injuries to another road user through their negligence, whether or not they meant to. Though my experience of claiming from other people's insurance is that 100% of the time liability has been denied (I'm still not sure if it was just the insurance company being awkward in one case).

[i] I have free legal cover with the house insurance[/i]

Tried them?

Maybe it would be better if "ambulance chasers" wasn't used as a generic term to include those who don't?

You may be right about tarring them all with the same brush mind, we, (cyclists) don't like it that happens to us.

I was once given this advice:

[b]Next time it happens, don't get up off the floor until the Police or an Ambulance arrives for you.[/b]

Even if you think you are OK and the driver appears to be honest and forthcoming, they can dodge and delay like this. When you dial 999 tell them you are in the road and can't move, they will get there quickly, and the presence of officials will help the driver to be honest.

Tried them?

Yep, waiting for them to decide if they'll cover it. Apparently there has to be reasonable chance of success (there is) and the likely damages worthwhile - i.e. if I was only after £50 they'd not bother getting involved. So should be ok, but they've not confirmed yet.

Did try Bike Line, but they said as the personal injury claim is likely to be <£1k, it would be treated as a 'small claim' and as such they'd not be able to reclaim legal fees from the other side. So I'll hopefully use my legal cover from home insurance.

Updated the police with the false details thing and I think that's bumped it up the queue a bit so should hear back from them today or tomorrow.

Next time it happens, don't get up off the floor until the Police or an Ambulance arrives for you.

Even if you think you are OK and the driver appears to be honest and forthcoming, they can dodge and delay like this. When you dial 999 tell them you are in the road and can't move, they will get there quickly, and the presence of officials will help the driver to be honest.

With all respect, that's pretty dishonest and daft advice. I was fine, and there's no need to cause even more delay for hundreds of people at rush hour by lying in the road like that. It wasn't a 999 call anyway - those guys are busy enough; it wasn't an emergency. I just had a bent wheel and bruised arse. Let's try and keep a sense of proportion here please!

--

So avoid those, and choose somebody to use from the usual recommendations who are all perfectly decent. Maybe it would be better if "ambulance chasers" wasn't used as a generic term to include those who don't?

[quote=Mowgli ]Did try Bike Line, but they said as the personal injury claim is likely to be <£1k, it would be treated as a 'small claim' and as such they'd not be able to reclaim legal fees from the other side.

I'm surprised it's that little - doesn't take much to get an injuries claim over that. Mind you when I was last hit by a car and claimed I was limping for a week and had trouble sleeping, so maybe yours are less severe. Bear in mind that as I pointed out above you should be able to get your home legal cover to pay for them (rather than the solicitors they might otherwise choose who will probably have no experience of cycling claims).

wzzzz -
I was once given this advice

And shit advice it was.

aracer - Member
....Regarding "ambulance chasers" - well that's one term for legitimate no win no fee solicitors I suppose, but none of the decent ones I'm aware of do actually chase ambulances or anything close to that. I don't know why people feel the need to knock them when they provide a useful service and it's not unreasonable for them to make a living out of providing this service - the decent ones aren't actually trying to rip anybody off....

It's almost as if there was an active PR campaign against Personal Injury lawyers.

I'm struggling to think what industry would be behind it... 🙂

Slight update. Turns out the driver gave me both the wrong insurer and the wrong phone number (doesn't work, disconnected it seems). IDed his actual insurer from the reg plate, but they won't respond till they've spoken to him - and they have the same mobile number he gave me. Report this to police, but in the mean time I've no way of making any progress. Any ideas? I know his name, car reg, and which city he lives in...

Definitely report it to the police now. I'm pretty sure it's an offence to give false details after an accident where there has been damage.

Road Traffic Act 170 (2) / (4)
Offence to not inform Police and supply insurance cert if personal injury is involved.
Offence to supply false information re name , address etc

****.

You clearly need new shorts ( Rapha ) New lid (Poc ) , New frame ( Pinerallo ), New wheelset ( Zipp )