[Closed] dog on bike trails - wtf!

Mimi - as I have repeatedly said - a well trained dog is no issue on teh trails - and glentress is open to all suprisingly. Its open access as is most land in Scotland.

I am no dog lover but I have seen dogs at trail centres that are no bother at all.

However flatfish will not concede that the dog must be of no bother to anyone - if it gets in teh riders way the dog owner is liable for any damage caused. Its purely on the dog owner to keep teh dog out of the way

TJ, why do you tar all dog's with the same brush? As i said in an earlier post my brother-in-law's dog is a liability and i wouldn't take it out of his house unless on a lead, however, i trust my dog to ride/run a trail approx 1-2 metres in front of my front wheel and have had only one minor issue, which didn't involve an accident to me, the dog or any other. It's the dog's owner's duty to make sure you have a well trained canine. My dog's only vice is not being able to wee/poo on a lead which i take full responibility for, however he poo's/wee's in the bushes before mimi pipes up again. I will concede that some owners, my brother in law included, are a nusiance to the rest of us but please don't tar all dog owner's with the same brush, as you wouldn't tar all cyclist for going through a red light.

flatfish - what's your beef? TJ has already said that some dogs are no issue.

TandemJeremy - Member
Mimi - as I have repeatedly said - [b]a well trained dog is no issue on teh trails[/b] - and glentress is open to all suprisingly. Its open access as is most land in Scotland.

I am no dog lover but [b]I have seen dogs at trail centres that are no bother at all[/b].

ooo mimi your scary, or a berk i can`t decide 😯

I'm not trying to sound like i'm having a go at TJ, although he does wind me up at times i will admit, it's the other nay sayers that are having a go at dogs in general without knowing any background on the dogs training that's got my back up.

Flatfish - you need to stop equating a dog with a child and also to realise that folk do not have to take any account of your dog. Your dog is your responsibility - no one else. Othe rpeople don't owe a dog a duty of care.

If you've spotted the "pooch" theres going to be no issue's as you can slow down to avoid it.

If you injure anything, whether it be a dog, child or adult and it were to go to court, do you think the jury would agree that not being able to stop in time to avoid the moving obstacle,

Nope - a dog is not a child - its your responsiblity to keep the dog out of the way

At no point have i said my dog is, "not under control." I cannot, however, account for other peoples dogs.
If I am stopped on the trail, for instance, due to a downed rider and my dog is sat on the trail waiting to go, is it acceptable for mimi to come barreling round a corner and run over my dog?
As i said before if somebody,anybody, possibly mimi, comes round a corner and hits a sheep, of which there are many at cwm carn is it acceptable for him to say "**** it, sheep shouldn't be here" and ride off without so much as a by your leave?

Flatfiush - you still don't get it. Its not a sheep nor a child. Its a dog and it is your responsibility. You need to keep it from being a nusience - you have a responsibility to do so. That includes getting it off the trail in the situation you describe not leaving it as a hazard

From that statement if my dog wasn't there i would be hit by "mimi". Is that still acceptable? As in my eyes he couldn't stop in a controlled manner, therefore riding dangerously.
Just the same as if my dog is in a controlled fashion, sat, that means not moving, therefore not unpredictably, on a trail due to me telling him to stop because of a hypothetical downed rider.
I think you fail to see both sides of the story sometimes TJ.

Flatfish - a dog is not a person. This is the bit you don't get. Take your dog on the trails by all means but you have a responsibility to keep the dog out of the way of others using that trail.

Its a basic premise yo seem unable to grasp. You are rsponsible for your dog no matter what the dog is doing If Mimi hits you Mimi is at fault, if mimi hits your dog - you are at fault.

My dog is under control and no problem at trail centres or anywhere else for that matter. I see others that aren't and think it's a little irresponsible and would give the owner of an out of control dog a mouthful/advice as required. Someone as aggressive/intolerant as mimi wouldn't have to worry about my dog at all, it would be well down his priority list, however, I suspect he's a wee sheep in real life and bleats his way down the trails to safety without saying anything before becoming 'puffy the dog slayer' once tucked up safely behind his keyboard.

From that statement if my dog wasn't there i would be hit by "mimi". Is that still acceptable? As in my eyes he couldn't stop in a controlled manner, therefore riding dangerously.
Just the same as if my dog is in a controlled fashion, sat, that means not moving, therefore not unpredictably, on a trail due to me telling him to stop because of a hypothetical downed rider.
I think you fail to see both sides of the story sometimes TJ.

My dog is a dog, if it were to bite one of my three "real" children the wife knows it will be put down, no questions. Would you treat a child like that?
I can see what your saying but you obviously can't see what i have to say.
I'm off to bed i can't be bothered argueing with somebody that doesn't read what i post.

You keep equating your dog with a child. I have quoted you doing so. It is not the same. You clearly cannot grasp this point. You seem to think that hitting a dog and hitting a chikld is the same thing - it is not.

flatfish
If you injure anything, whether it be a dog, child or adult and it were to go to court, do you think the jury would agree that not being able to stop in time to avoid the moving obstacle,

I am responsible for not hitting your child when on my bike, you are responsible for your dog not getting under my wheels.

TJ, kindly take a look at what you quote.

dog[u],[/u] child [u]or[/u] adult

Notice the comma and the word or, adding both of these to a sentence creates an option in this case, not a comparison.

From that statement if my dog wasn't there i would be hit by "mimi". Is that still acceptable? As in my eyes he couldn't stop in a controlled manner, therefore riding dangerously.
Just the same as if my dog is in a controlled fashion, sat, that means not moving, therefore not unpredictably, on a trail due to me telling him to stop because of a hypothetical downed rider.
I think you fail to see both sides of the story sometimes TJ.

So quick to comment on someone you know nothing about!

I am actually not a he!

I like the ''puffy the dog slayer'' quote however may steal this for myself.

TJ - Glentress has both bike trails and walkers paths - both are separate!

I got quite annoyed as you lots are missing the point - trained t perfection or not a dog is still a dog and remains an unpredictable animal therefore has no place on marked bike trails! You all seem to think that the dog being well trained is going to stop it from running about mental in-front of someone, this is so not the case!

I also can't believe you all think I am a bloke - perhaps it my forceful point making! 🙄

I've yet to see a rider with a dog. And if its on a man made, won't everyone be going the same way?
Flatfish I think the thing you might not be getting is that however well trained your dog is, its not going to be obvious to a non dog person. For s few seconds they'll be worrying about their safety.
We also have a guy that rides with us who has a real fear of dogs, especially ones not on s lead. You wouldn't think it if you saw him.
And s local rider was taken down by a dog recently, he suffered broken ribs and damage to his bike. They settled out of court, as they convinced him that it was uncharacteristic behavior.

Flatfiush

You still continue to miss the point. You cannot compare a dog to a human which you have done numerous times. You remain responsible for the dog. This is the point you cannot seem to grasp.

If I crash into a human then generally I would be at fault, however If I crash into a dog the dog owner would be at fault. IT IS THE DOG OWNERS RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP THE DOG UNDER CONTROL AT ALL TIMES

Mimi -= the glentress trails all are open to all - they have indicators on them but under access legislation no route is exclusive for the use of one group.

A well trained do is no issue - I don't like dogs but I have seen well trained dogs on trails that are no issue at all

Mimi can i suggest you read my full posts here - you seem to have grasped the wrong end of the doggy stick.

I am not a dog owner
I am not a fan of dogs on trails after being knocked of my bike, forced to stop 3 times in one session at Cannock this summer.

I made it very clear about trail usage based on dedication in my earlier posts.

TG I think you are missing my point, I however have to disagree with you - no matter how trained the dog is it will still be running about in front of folk on bikes and this is the issue as it can be dangerous to rider and dog! I think we have to agree to disagree. However I think that even if what you say is correct about Glen tress there is still marked walkers paths, therefore it is unfair on other riders is one decides to take their dog on a cycle route rather than a walkers path! Unless of course the dog ca ride a bike!

Mimi - a well trained dog is no issue at all. The do not cause any issue to bike riders or themselves. I have ridden with well trained dogs. They will run either directly behind or in front of the owner and will not chase other bikes

Like I said TG I reckon we have to agree to disagree!

As I've said before a dog is someones property and damaging a persons property is also a civil offence. (Why else do we have to report running down a dog to the police, English law Scottish may differ). If my property is safely out of the way and you break it I will seek recompense for it's repair or replacement.

Wrong in this context sandwich - if the dog gets hit by a rider [i]on the trail[/i] it is the dog owners fault - and they would have to pay for any damage to the bike and rider.

The onus is on the dog owner to keep the dog under control

From the colchester gazette,

A CASE against a cyclist accused of breaking a dog’s jaw while riding through a park has been dropped after a year of legal wrangling.

Springer spaniel Lucy was injured when a rider came around a corner on a cycle path in Castle Park, Colchester, and accidentally hit her in May last year.

Firefighter Craig Todd was later charged with careless cycling under the Road Traffic Act.

Admittedly not on a trail in a forest but never the less somebody was charged.

Charged but the case dropped. it would never stand up in court. RTA does not apply if you are not on a road anyway.

It is up to you to keep your dog out of the way - thats it. very simple

Cyclist Wins Compensation From Dog Owner
A cyclist has been awarded £14,000 in compensation after he was injured when a dog ran under the wheel of his bicycle.

Ken MacLennan, 65, was cycling though a park when a spaniel that had been let off its lead ran into his path. Mr MacLennan was thrown over the handlebars and suffered a fractured pelvis.

Pet owners have a legal responsibility to safeguard others from the potential dangers posed by their animals. If pets cause an accident, their owners may be liable for any resulting damages

http://www.conscious.co.uk/site/library/legalnews/accidentsinpublicplacesnews/cycleist_wins_compensation_form_dog_owner.html

As I have indicated, each case turns on its own facts. As a solicitor specialising in cycle
accidents, I regularly pursue claims against dog owners whose dogs have come into
collision with cyclists. A common scenario is that a dog may escape from a property onto
a road or alternatively a dog may run out from a park onto a road. In most of the cases
that I have pursued, I have been able to establish on the facts that the owner was in breach
of their duty of care to the cyclist. On occasions it is necessary to obtain expert evidence
to prove that the dog owner knew or ought to have known that their particular breed of
dog has a particular characteristic e.g. a propensity to chase cyclists or runners. This can
commonly be the case if the dog is behaving territorially around the house or farm where
it lives.
Paul Kitson

Trail centres are definitely for bikes not dogs! went to Dalby a few Saturdays ago and there was a dumb dog with dumber owner on the other side of some wood work - dog could not decide if it wanted to run round the owner or greet me on said raised platform - owner was not in control. Would have mowed down the fukin thing if it had not moved...

Taking dogs to trail centres is completely selfish and dangerous - they just get in the way and shit everywhere...

Dog owners never see it's a problem and that their dog is somehow special...

well stated tinkerbell, exactly the points I have been making all along! Tandem Jermey - you really are quite stubborn, do you actually ride trails often, ahve you ever encountered an annoying dog jumping on your bikes while your trying to enjoy a ride?? Doubt it, as if you had you would admitt to being very wrong in this instance.

Mimi - you miss the point. I have ridden on these trails and yes - "an annoying dog jumping on your bikes while your trying to enjoy a ride" is wrong and should not be there. the dog owner has s responsibility to ensure the dog does not bother anyone.

However a well trained dog at a trail centre is no issue. it doesn't jump up at you, it doesn't run around annoying folk, it just follows its owner down the trail. I have met a couple of dogs that do this - properly trained.

Its a crucial difference that neither side seems to be able to grasp. The well trained dog will not bother anyone or create any sort of hazard. it is welcome. Dog owners have a responsibility to ensure their dog does not bother anyone and if they cannot ensure this then they are not welcome.

It is the owners legal responsibility to ensure their dog is under control and does not bother folk or create a hazard. If the dog is safe under control then what is the issue?

I dislike dogs very much but you have to see what is right here

These posts come up regularly and have never persuaded me that I shouldn't take my dog to a trail centre. She's well behaved, knows her way round the bike, where to run to not get in the way and is well trained enough not to run off without me.

People stating that trail centres are no place for dogs seems similar to those people 10-15 years ago sayng that forests are no place for MTBs as they get in the way of walkers/horse riders.

I've been to most of the Mid/North Wales centres amongst others with her and only ever had positive comments from other riders. To my face anyway.

So Ner :P!

Does you dog bother anyone else? Or is it properly trained? Thats the key

**** me is this still going?

Does TJ bother anybody ? should he be on a lead? 😆

Mrs TJ fitted me with one of these - but I can still type
[img] [/img]

Ah, time for the dogs on trails thread again, do they follow the lunar cycle?

Only joking TJ I have a dog that is a pain in the ass off the lead and I try to run him in the woods when there is no one else about ,usually at night.

TandemJeremy "However a well trained dog at a trail centre is no issue. it doesn't jump up at you, it doesn't run around annoying folk, it just follows its owner down the trail. I have met a couple of dogs that do this - properly trained."

Does the well trained dog clear up its own shit?

I THINK NOT!!!! 👿

Foxes,badgers and bears shit in the woods as well who clears up theirs?

Hmm you should see me and my birds uber fit and silly well trained collie.. The dog loves running with us or in a group and has never casued a problem. It wont cross a trail without permission and is not even bothered by sheep. Farmers have even complemented us about her ! It is the dogs training that makes the difference. Heel means being glued to your ankle....

She has been to the top of most of the bikeable peaks in lakes / wales and most of the trail centres in wales. No problem. We pack her crap out in her back pack so no issue there. Contrast that to all the chavs leaving their rubbish at the trailside - so far this year I have removed tubes / tyres / gels / bottes etc from trails in shropshire / somerset and peaks. go figure !!

I would rather have the dog along for a ride than a lot of humans i know !

paul

snowpaul
We pack her crap out in her back pack so no issue there

You're more than likely in the minority there though, plenty of dog owners visiting Cannock Chase don't bother picking up their pooches poop at all, those that do usually have a strange habit of tying it to a tree like a Christmas tree decoration. 😯

Out of interest, is it legal requirement for dog owners to pick up their pets poop in these beauty spots?

Is it also a legal requirement for dogs to be on a lead, no matter where they are in the street or beauty spots?

I only ask the last question as I'm fed up with some dogs attacking me then the owner telling me all matter fact that...''yeah, he don't like bikers'' 🙄 If they knew that then why ain't it on a lead then?!!!

I was bit on the hip by a Greyhound in the summer that was well trained and hadnt ever done it before and was very obedient !

My argument was that if it bit me there at that hight what was stopping it from taking a lump out of my sons face who was riding in front of me !

As we approached the dog the owner assured us that it was OK and was just being friendly 8 stitches later i wasnt so sure !

As far as i,m concerned dogs should be on a lead in a Public Place or forestry block / Trail centre, If the responsible owner wants to prove to the world that he has an obedient dog then join a dog club and get it to run through hoops and sticks..........
Also if it is deemed acceptable to have a Dog off the lead where members of the General Public go to be safe away from streets, Walkers, Dogs, Dog crap, Cars etc then approach the Land owner and get permission to have a dog off the lead stating that you THE OWNER take full responsibility for the actions of the dog !

See if they give it to you !

My son wont get on his bike now outside the estate where we live as he is scared that he is going to have to go to hospital for stitches !

i was riding the bottom section of the dh over cwmcarn last week when some dog walker thought it would be ok for his two dogs to run out on me!! rite p1ss taker!!

[i]As far as i,m concerned dogs should be on a lead in a Public Place or forestry block / Trail centre, If the responsible owner wants to prove to the world that he has an obedient dog then join a dog club and get it to run through hoops and sticks..........
[/i]

+1000

Is it also a legal requirement for dogs to be on a lead, no matter where they are in the street or beauty spots?

Teh legal requirement is for the dog to be under control in a public place and under close control where livestock is present.

A dog that runs at you, jumps up or bothers you in any way is not under control

Dog owners are liable for any damage their dogs cause, a dog that bites can and should be destroyed