[Closed] Do you like trail centres?

I'm a mincer. The choice of trail won't change that.

The trails are not the limiting factor here. It's me and the limited time available in which I can ride.

for me, its natural trails instead of trail centres every time. i love exploring, finding new stuff and to be honest, i want to get away from everything (riding alone 99.9) and be out in nature. im into finding overgrown trails snaking through forests or over moors and hills. and being in scotland, i can go everywhere.

having said that, i do think trail centres are great as an entry point for beginners, families, learning skills as well as creating more of a community of like minded folk. some of the riding looks great fun and challenging as well. its just never been something ive thought about too much despite living 20 miles from glentress and inners...

I love trailcentres and would say 90% of my rides are at one.

It seems not to be fashionable at all in here to do this, and much more acceptable to be out natural riding with a map etc.

I don't mind either type of riding, but I don't have the time and navigation skills to go natural riding unless I'm with a mate who knows where he's going.

For me I can rock up at a trailcentre and pick a trail and just ride it for fun without getting lost. All my recent experience of natural riding also seems to involve more mud and getting scratched by brambles / ferns etc. Never had that at a trail centre.

Strangely Joe, I'd have said that as someone whose riding is the polar opposite to yours that I was definitely in the minority on here!

From your last paragraph it sounds like the outdoors isn't for you 😉 (tongue firmly in cheek!)

done few trail centres sherwoodpines, hamsterly, gizburn, llandegla
they were all fun but its all designed to ride smooth and the rock gardens are a joke.

much prefer the pennines or peaks with a plan in my head exploring.

@perchy, well the inferred conclusion that you would get no benefit from going to one.

I totally get the pilot being the limit thing, but it's entirely possible to have more or different fun in different places, simply because they are different, you might still enjoy mincing somewhere else. The time limit is obviously a big one for you but I didn't intend this to be a deconstruction of your individual motives, like I said, I didn't mean to single you out, it was a comment on the type of comment 😉

Nobeerinthefridge - Member

next thing you'll be acknowledging the virtues of the xc course at Cathkin...

That's a race course, not a trail centre. Generally racing away from staffies/junkies/neds and middle aged faceplanters...

y'know, I've been there a bit more recent months, largely with coaching duties etc, and it's grown on me, a little. Also seems much less of the ned element, hope it stays that way - there is a chunk of funding now for building a hub/cafe etc, but down in Castlemilk in an old church, which will have challenges...

I like trail centres, great for taking my lad to play in berms and stuff, ace for mosh around when the local cheeky stuff will be axle deep slop as well.

there is a chunk of funding now for building a hub/cafe etc, but down in Castlemilk in an old church, which will have challenges...

That's been spoken of since the commie games, pie in the sky. Castlemilk for a coffee and cake? F that!

depends on the trail centre. CYB didn't do anything for me although the foundry was pretty good. GT hasn't had much investment in the last 10 years in terms of trails (not including the off piste stuff) so is a bit boring after a while. Comrie croft is ace although small as it has a good range of trails that are both naturally technical and flowy. Inners is good if got the uplift but climbing up is a bitch. The off piste stuff in tweed valley is pretty good though. I like taking the bike on actual hills and mountains as well, there is such a range of places to visit within 90mins of Glasgow that you can effectively a different place each week and not repeat.

Nobeerinthefridge - Member

next thing you'll be acknowledging the virtues of the xc course at Cathkin...

That's a race course, not a trail centre. Generally racing away from staffies/junkies/neds and middle aged faceplanters...

TBF you can actually ride a small loop of cathkin and make it interesting. I never go beyond the bottom of double dare. The new stuff that's getting put in for next years championship looks good.

It's yet another thing to do with your bike and that's a great thing. I only ever do then every few years but it's still fun

And how long before the stw Facebook team start pushing this thread every couple of weeks 🙂

They have their place, and I love a visit to CyB or Afan in particular.

They definitely don't seem as busy as they used to be though. Anyone else observed that?

Few seem to be answering the original questions 🙄

[i]So why should I like, or grow to like them? What do you like about them that keeps you going back?[/i]

So far it seems to boil down to some combination of "Lack of time", "lack of commitment to head out on the BW network" (I'll use that rather than "natural" 😉 ); convenience.

Oh, the off-piste stuff at TCs isn't what I'm talking about, it's the marked trails. In fact stuff like Grandfather, Father, Dentist at Grizedale is fine, far better than TNF. (I know TNF hasn't had much if any love over the years but insert the name of any TC trail and it's the same). Which suggests that it's the deliberately manufactured stuff that I have issue with.

That's been spoken of since the commie games, pie in the sky.

nope, it's real now. There was an info session on it hosted by the Council the other week. Funding is secured. However, Chateau au Lait for coffee and cake... 🙁

Yes,I love them. I grew up on bmx in the 80's and started mountain biking soon as I got too old to be hanging about on a bmx. Still did the same stuff, looking for things to ride down and jump off. So my first visit to Glentress was as you can imagine magical, like the world's biggest bmx track. I'm quite time limited theses days and at a trail centre I know what I'm getting and even though all of them are an hour plus traveling I reckon it's the best bang for buck time wise. I've lost a bit of bike mojo at present but I can see trail centres figuring even more in my future biking.

The flip side is that I detest hike a bike, I'd actually rather be walking than carrying a bike.

That's been spoken of since the commie games, pie in the sky. Castlemilk for a coffee and cake? F that!

The only thing they are short of is cash for doing the old church up - ~200k but the money for the track, the UCI start/finsh, pump and skills track is all there. They have done the environmental sweep of the area too. Should be starting to dig pretty soon and will be ready for march/april next year IIRC when I went to the information day.

There's no reason you should feel you have to like trail centres. You like what you like.

I like that they are pretty weather proof, have big flow trails with berms / yumps / jumps and often have at least a cafe - and sometimes shower facilities. Yet you still feel you're out in the wild (most often go to Cwmcarn or Bike Park Wales - but the same applies to Afan).

For the record my bike has never been on the roof of an Audi (referring to comment somewhere above).....

Few seem to be answering the original questions

So why should I like, or grow to like them? What do you like about them that keeps you going back?

So far it seems to boil down to some combination of "Lack of time", "lack of commitment to head out on the BW network" (I'll use that rather than "natural" ); convenience.

Pretty much nailed it though haven't we?

That and "it's like riding a 20mile BMX track".

What's not to like? Unless you enjoy the faff/drudgery/mud* of the bridleway network and don't like jumps and berms.

*tongue in cheek, I do like a good day out.

Anyone over about 30 and been mountainbiking for >16 years will probably remember Foot and Mouth too. If it wasn't for trail centers keeping people riding it's entirely possible the sport would have just died on it's arse just as trail bikes started to get interesting and the sport moved away from 'trudging over hills and bridleways' into the more 'gnarr' incarnation we have today. The countryside was effectively shut through 2001.

got to be honest, I am fancying a trail center trip now after reading this thread.
a weekend in wales I reckon, cyb, penmachno and llandegla.

Packing the van as soon as I finish my cuppa.

Nant yr Arian followed by Climachx on my way to camping near Coed y Brenin.

Then Coed y Brenin or a natural the next day and either or on Sunday.

OP... Do you feel you want to like them? I love riding my bike, the woods and rolling hills of my native Kent provide me with hours of enjoyment, woodland singletrack being a favourite.

That said, I love my Alps trips and tackling 1000m descents with average gradients of 26%, another favourite.

TCs have always figured in my riding and a weekend away that involves brain out just ride the trail type stuff is excellent, especially when mixed with a little out there exploring too.

I know you love riding and with the Peaks as your playground, who needs TCs?

Gotta pack now.... plenty of wet gear this weekend I think!

I've never been to Glentress!
There, I've admitted it. I must surely be alone in this respect amongst mountainbikers.

I think it's fashionable to hate trial centres. They have their place, for sure. Yes, I prefer 'natural' trials, but I really love some sections of trial centres. I also think they are much more appealing to beginners. My girlfriend is really getting into it and she prefers riding at a trial centre. Clearer trials, waymarked, and less intimidating than throwing her into the woods 😀

Heading to Llandegla on Saturday with her for a spin around the red. The red there has a few nice sections 🙂

Nice to see an argument about mountain biking on here, instead of Trump, Europe, pies, moleskin trews, corbyn, carbonara, Jamba, ninfan, Jamba, ninfan, Jamba, ninfan.........

😀

it's a rare day when I'm not leaving the house with a deadline in mind and a half dozen other things to do that day - it's a gamble to head up to Brecon or even Caerphilly and wander into the woods hoping to find something to ride

P-Jay, seriously, drop me a line, I can sort you out with natural rides!

Few seem to be answering the original questions

So why should I like, or grow to like them? What do you like about them that keeps you going back?

My answers to your questions are: you don't have to, it's up to you what you like and what you don't like, and lots of things for me to like them but YMMV.

If someone has ridden at a trail centre and decided they don't like it, no one should tell them they're being silly or missing something.

If someone declares they don't like a trail centre without ever riding at one then my response would be "how do you know if you've never tried it?" Give it a go, if after you've ridden at a trail centre you still don't get it or enjoying then fine, it's not for you.

chakaping - Member

They definitely don't seem as busy as they used to be though. Anyone else observed that?

Comes and goes, here in South Wales Afan seems quiter than ever, but it's not really a 'centre' as such anymore - it's an area with 3 'centres' and a free carapark tucked away,

Cwmcarn is always brisk to busy, but obviously dies down in Winter.

For the most part though BPW is sucking up 90% of the road trip crowd.

Trail centres are great, they give people new to the sport a real challenge in an environment that is easy to navigate and are fairly predictable, to just dismiss the riding as easy is being disengenuous, some Black features can be quite testing, even the Blue loop at GT has a fairly tough climb for a beginner, a proper challenge.

It is just riding bikes, so don't look down your'e nose at others enjoying themselves.

I was recently at Chatel bike park, i thought i would hate it and had a real blast, would i do it again, to right i would.. my preconceptions were wrong. It's different but not inferior to natural riding, what is natural anyway, other than manmade.

By the way i'm faster than you, my kits brand new.

Comes and goes, here in South Wales Afan seems quiter than ever, but it's not really a 'centre' as such anymore - it's an area with 3 'centres' and a free carapark tucked away,

Needs an uplift. I recall the descents were excellent fun, but I'm not wasting 1/2 my day riding uphill.

Needs an uplift. I recall the descents were excellent fun, but I'm not wasting 1/2 my day riding uphill.

Not an opinion everyone would share but I take you're point.

If it was run as a business there would be one there right now - in fact there was 10 years ago, a Land Rover with a trailer that drove a little too quickly dropping people up Whites, the Wall and Skyline to tear down again. Sadly, the Council couldn't find the right box for him on their forms so he was legislated to death - I think he was technically a taxi in the end.

Anyway, yes, if it was a business they'd look at how BPW is doing and refocus the place - but as it stands it doesn't lend itself to it - trails are spread far and wide and they're long XC descents not like Bike Park.

You can uplift the major descents of The Wall if you want with little fuss, well as long as you've got a suitable vehicle and take it in turns to drive - few people do though.

I have drifted away from trail centres and back to the kind of riding that I enjoyed when I first got an 'MTB'. I prefer the remote over the hills and far away rides and my local woods and paths. I still visit Brechfa from time to time though and when I bother I enjoy it.

My loss of interest is due to getting my fat bike, the fact that I have ridden all the local trail centres so often, reluctance to drive to a centre after work and, I guess, getting older and less sociable.

Whether I like them or not is irrelevant though because loads of people do, it's great for 'our sport' takes pressure of natural trails, introduces people to getting fit outside, etc, etc... I know it's not the question being asked but I am glad we have them and would support the development of more trail centres all over the place.... Preferably with train links and even in urban areas.

"I have seen things you fatbikers wouldn't believe..Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.. C beams glittering in the dark.. near the Tanhauser gate..all memories lost in time, like tears in rain..."

Just your average trail center blast!

Love them.

Afan is my favourite!

When I was involved with NWMBA, we were lucky enough to be involved with the beginning of Llandegla. The place is special to me, have spent many a happy hour blasting around the trails.
As has been said, TC's have their place. I used the shop at Llandegla and was friends with Ian and Jim, so it was a place to go to see friends too.
Whinlatter is now my local TC and although it is a great place, I have probably been there twice in 12 months.

what is natural anyway, other than manmade.

Natural - possibly affected by humanity but not built for bikes to be ridden down

Man made - built for bikes to ride down by humans

Its not that hard a distinction to grasp

Granted there are grey areas due to trail pixies

I've rode some absolutely amazing trail centres

I've rode some absolutely crap trail centres

I've rode some absolutely amazing natural stuff

I've rode some absolutely crap natural stuff

As long as you're enjoying it and having fun it doesn't matter where you ride

If you go out your way not to ride trail centres you're basically just an edge lord

Got you, well it isn't natural is it, semantics... Bways are manmade, granted for horses, but not very natural.

We often talk about how great natural rides are in the Mountains...stone pitched with water bars yay.

My mission is to find the best natural rides they are rarer than you think...Like i said i'm faster than you my kit is brand new.

PS. Natural to me is a trail made by footfall or animal tracks, rare in a biking context,

Yeah, love them. Think im spoilt though, when i got back into mountain biking my mate took me to a local TC (glentress). I like the 'easy bang for yer buck' like others have said, you know what your getting, easy to build up your skills, easy to follow trails on a loop. That said im hardly ever on the waymarked trails anymore. People stop to see if you need a hand if your stopped for any reason. Also spoilt as theres lots of natural stuff here too, old drovers rds, walking paths, freedom to roam and i love doing this too (doing st Cuthbert's way in a couple of weeks).

OP - You dont say if you go out alone or with others. Maybe you like the solitude? Theres definitely a feeling of less pressure on me pootling away in a field compared to a TC where i know a 'feature' isnt to far away. Dont feel that you should have to grow to like them, as long as your happy on the saddle its all good i would say ( sorry, never meant to write this much)

I find the biggest problem with trail centres is they all start to look the same after a while. Hardpack, hardly any roots, full of berms. I still go occasionally but I do find them a bit boring.

Quick answer, yes.

What do you like about them that keeps you going back?

They offer an opportunity to ride terrain that isn't in abundance naturally (corners is a great example!), without the stuff that can spoil a natural ride (overgrown trails, floods, mud, tough climbs 😆 )

I love a good "traditional" ride, but a number of factors need to be just right to make it a great experience. Many of those factors I have no control of. Trail centres provide a buzz that might be nigh-on impossible to get on my local trails in the middle of a wet winter, for example.

Also, much of the buzz I get from a good XC ride I can get from a good road ride, yet trail centre riding is a very different experience. It's the difference between going for a drive in the country versus going on a track day.

@swoosh - well I've ridden at: Laggan; Ft William; All the seven Stanes; Kielder; Grizedale; Gisburn; Dalby; Betws (Marin); Coed y Brenin; Forest of Dean; Swinley. It's not enjoyment vs dislike, I don't find it satisfying.

@fergal - Junkyard has it. In the context of mountain biking it means "not designed for bikes".

@aide - a mixture, sometimes on my own sometimes with a group which might be from five to twenty.

A bit too late to edit the above.

In addition to the comment about company, I ride alone and with others on natural BWs as well as at trail centres. If it wasn't for company then I almost certainly wouldn't go to trail centres at all.

Perhaps a good way of explaining my feelings are that I can't remember ever thinking: "[i]That was great! I must come back here.[/i]" after riding at a trail centre.

I will admit that is the general meaning, not in my world! Natural singletrack is the benchmark.

nastybuller you mean a bit boring like natural riding...kittylitter, waterbar, stone paving...kittylitter, waterbar (bunny hop), hisss.. stone paving..

"I have seen things you fatbikers wouldn't believe..Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.. C beams glittering in the dark.. near the Tanhauser gate..all memories lost in time, like tears in rain..."

Just your average trail center blast!

Yes, you can find mushrooms at trail centres too 🙂

I used to be a bit dismissive of trail centres, so out of curiosity I put together [url= https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=1o6&doc_id=18104&v=AB ]this project[/url] last year. I enjoyed the mix enough that I'll be doing something similar in Scotland at the end of next month. Joining up trail centres with natural riding, trains at each end - best of all worlds.

To answer the original question, they aren't for me.

I don't know why but I just like riding tracks that have been there since way before bikes were even thought of. I like the history of the tracks, they exist because they had a purpose many moons ago even if now only used for leisure. The deep cut V shape in a bank higher than my height from generations of travellers and rain eroding it away.

I find it hard to explain really,a track purpose made for bikes and designed with only that purpose in mind just doesn't do it for me.

All of the above said,I have zero issues with people that think the exact opposite.

It's all riding bikes at the end of the day.

I'm not really a fan, I find they don't really work well for tandems (too much grounding and tight corners, better riders might disagree!) and I prefer more open riding with views. However my wife enjoys them for all the reasons others have mentioned so sometimes I go for a run while she rides round which works out pretty well for both of us.

@Poopscoop
I've just started reading The Old Ways by Rob McFarlane on that very subject. I think you would enjoy it.

I just love getting out on my bike. I'm lucky having Peak District rides from the front door but I also like trail centres for a good whoosh round for a couple of hours. At least with a trail centre you can be confident of there not having to slow down for pedestrians every few minutes. It also depends what kind of riding you like, but I love a big day out on natural trails. I also love technical climbs and you don't get so many of those at trail centres. Other prefer to do big jumps with minimal uphill pedalling.

How can you "actively avoid" trail centres and fail to avoid starting a thread about them ?

Odd, even by STW's passive aggressive standards.

I've rode some absolutely amazing trail centres

I've rode some absolutely crap trail centres

I've rode some absolutely amazing natural stuff

I've rode some absolutely crap natural stuff

As long as you're enjoying it and having fun it doesn't matter where you ride

If you go out your way not to ride trail centres you're basically just an edge lord

This for me. Riding my bike is fun.

How can you "actively avoid" trail centres and fail to avoid starting a thread about them ?

You are missing the point of the questions! It's about what others might see in trail centres that I don't.

I don't know why but I just like riding tracks that have been there since way before bikes were even thought of. I like the history of the tracks, they exist because they had a purpose many moons ago even if now only used for leisure. The deep cut V shape in a bank higher than my height from generations of travellers and rain eroding it away.

I find it hard to explain really,a track purpose made for bikes and designed with only that purpose in mind just doesn't do it for me.

All of the above said,I have zero issues with people that think the exact opposite.

Yup.

...or getting caught in the rain...? 🙂

You are missing the point of the questions! It's about what others might see in trail centres that I don't.

I'm getting the hint that the point of the question is:

"Look at me, I don't ride trail centers"

...or getting caught in the rain...?

We need the OP's opinion on Pina-colada

Pina-colada - very 1970s, I have one with my Prawn Cocktail 😆

It's not that I don't ride trail centres, it's that I prefer not to. There's a difference, it's not even a subtle difference. (and it's spelt "centre" 😉 )

The best natural rides are better than any trail centre rides.

The worst natural rides are worse than any trail centre rides.

I prefer natural trails but here they are often busy with walkers and dogs so trail centers are better at busy times of the year. It's so nice being able to ride quickly knowing the only other people out there are also on bikes. Some quicker and some are slower but that doesn't bother me. They're are all into the same thing and lots are up for a chat too.

faz71 - Member
@Poopscoop
I've just started reading The Old Ways by Rob McFarlane on that very subject. I think you would enjoy it.

Nine find mate, just read up on it thanks to you, going to order that!

Thanks for the recommendation.

[quote=whitestone ]It's about what others might see in trail centres that I don't.
Here's a couple to get you going Bob.

(a) When conditions are really shit and you know you'll be creating/contributing to trail erosion, a trail centre is more likely to have a weather-resistant design and surface. It's also more likely to be maintained.

(b) For skills practice. Trail centre features are generally designed to be ridden and are often accessible in a manner that lets them be ridden repeatedly. On a longer "natural" ride I'm very unlikely to go back over something, even if I was crap the first time. And those skills also apply to natural rides when you take them on again.

FWIW, I've been to Laggan and Glentress once each this year - about half what I did in the whole of 2016.

I don't know why but I just like riding tracks that have been there since way before bikes were even thought of.

Me too, but it's not an exclusive thing. Just because I like that doesn't also mean I can't like trail centres.

Plus most of these old roads have been tarmacked and turned into country lanes. And most of the main local trails here are old access tracks to small workings that have disappeared, but they probably date back to the era of the bicycle's invention.

Pic of what I tried to describe earlier.
Long flowing trail with a pretty steep gradient. Banks on either side much taller than me with the trees almost making it a tunnel. Riding it at night is incredible. See the badgers roaming about to.

Different every time I ride it. Branches across the tail, huge pieces of flint or chalk thrown down onto it by the burrowing badgers. It almost has a personality of its own.

[url= https://s28.postimg.org/nxo0800hp/IMG_20170707_174444_1.jp g" target="_blank">https://s28.postimg.org/nxo0800hp/IMG_20170707_174444_1.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

That links to this monolith eventually.
The White Horse Stone. Lots of little "remembrances" tied to the trees near it by new age types or people that just want to make a memory there. To say they passed.

Romantic rubbish but that's why I love natural trails. They don't care about me and definitely not the bike. I'm just the latest traveller to pass through them.

[url= https://s28.postimg.org/ludl0c0ot/IMG_20170707_185030_1.jp g" target="_blank">https://s28.postimg.org/ludl0c0ot/IMG_20170707_185030_1.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Again, not putting down tail centres. Just trying to express what I love about where I ride. It's a personal thing isn't it?

Ride what you love.

Get yer shovel out, make that big stane a drop off.

Sorted.

Nobeerinthefridge - Member
Get yer shovel out, make that big stane a drop off.
Sorted.

Yeah,I kind of deserved that didn't I? 😀

😆

At least you weren't overbiked for it ... 😀

iainc - Member
At least you weren't overbiked for it ...

Oi! I mince in style mate! 😀

Yep, me too ! (Before nobeer says it ! ) 🙂

Natural trails all day long. The fact red can become black in a second. That puddle might be 12ft deep etc.

Both, either, whatever is best.
When I was in the lakes being able to bounce around Whinlatter when everything else was sodden was great or nip up after work for a solo ride knowing that you wouldn't be out alone.
7 Stanes, N Wales and the S Wales stuff gives a lot of bang for your buck riding and great social days out there. Being able to give it a little more knowing nobody is climbing bu the trails is great.

Other parts of the world having some nice man made steep and rocky trails, stuff that can't be rolled and other proper features makes for a great day out. Mix it up with some uplifts and off you go.

It also keeps you well away from the "Don't you know I never ride TC" types which is a bonus

iainc - Member
Yep, me too ! (Before nobeer says it ! )

Hypocrite! 😀 😉

The concept of "natural trails" vs "trail centres" is an interesting one. I know it's different on open ground, but in the woods of the south where I often ride we have tons of fantastic singletrack plus gnarlier downhill runs - none of it is "trail centre", almost none of it is official, merely tolerated, and almost none of it would be rideable if the trails hadn't been made by mountain bikers.

Because they're unofficial the surface is natural but the shape of the trails, the berms, the jumps, the drops, are built almost as much as at trail centres but with a lot more randomness!

I know it's different on open ground, but in the woods of the south where I often ride we have tons of fantastic singletrack plus gnarlier downhill runs - none of it is "trail centre", almost none of it is official, merely tolerated

Dunno. Never been to a 'trail centre'.

Dunno. Never been to a 'trail centre'.

[img] [/img]

Dunno. Never been to a 'trail centre'.

Why the quotes? It's what they are called.

Mountain biking is one of those activities that can be either an outdoor pursuit or an extreme sport. The actual riding can be pretty similar, but in ethos trail centres are on one side of the line and bridleways are on the other.

Doesn't matter though. It's just lines. Ride what you like. For me, that's all of it.

^^ Absolutely mate. Ride what you love.

either an outdoor pursuit or an extreme sport. The actual riding can be pretty similar, but in ethos trail centres are on one side of the line and bridleways are on the other.

[quote=molgrips ]Mountain biking is one of those activities that can be either an outdoor pursuit or an extreme sport. The actual riding can be pretty similar, but in ethos trail centres are on one side of the line and bridleways are on the other.
Nah.

Lots of mountain biking sport takes place outside of trail centres and it's certainly not an extreme sport for most folk riding at trail centres - it's a leisure pursuit.