until they start coming with buckles and buttons on them. Velcro has no place on body armour: it is for kids' shoes. I am astonished that body armour manufacturers have not clocked this yet - it makes me wonder whether any of them actually ride at all.
Velcro is so sophisticated and magical that it automatically loosens and slips the minute the riding gets shaky - which, ironically, is exactly when you most need body armour to stay secure. A system of buckles and buttons would take longer to do up but it would be more effective and far more durable. Again I'm astonished no manufacturers have come up with this.
On the Emosson descent last week, my 661 elbow pads came loose over 30 times - basically every few corners. I tried placing them in different places on my arms, at different tightness, and even wearing different shirts underneath, but the problem was with the product. Every one of these 30 instances counts as a catastrophic product failure.
I'm also surprised mountain bike magazines seem to accept these issues and not slate manufacturers for them in their reviews, as the flaw is pretty obvious - I almost wonder how much they're being paid in free (defective) swag.
For me the key point is that although I was wearing knee and elbow pads, I fell off wearing them and have abrasions squarely on, you've guessed it, my knees and elbows. Good product there guys.
Tempted to write a post on this forum on the first day of every month saying how $hit 661 and Dainese products are until they release products with more robust (not velcro) composition as it's unacceptable. Those elbow pads cost me over 50 euros - for that price you should be getting premium kit not toy stuff held together with kiddy material.
Ridden countless miles off road on motorbikes (and a fair few on mtb) and never had problem with the velcro on any pads - and believe me more shaking on a motorbike offroad at 50mph than an mtb, and much bigger consquences of failure.
I have also used Asterix knee braces/protection, which include lace up support, and at £400 they are great, but not comfortable (for me) and much hotter than velcro eg Thor.
Problem I can see is getting the fit correct. A difficult balance but nothing to do with whether they are closed with velcro, lacing or straps.
Just my experience though - everyone's limbs are different I guess.
My pads stay in podition fine. You clearly bought the wrong size. They're one of the few things I wont buy over the internet as fit is critical.
my velcro ones are great and stay put fine, which is why my shins look like a pizza but my knees are fine after the weekend
No problems with my velcro pads either, in fact I wouldn't want buckles or buttons! I like to undo mine when I'm not on a bike pointing downhill which would be pain with buckles!
Is this a poor attempt at a Rant?
Do you not think these companies do any R&D? Or are you saying they use sh!t velcro?
I cant see what your problem is unless you are saying that the velcro is slipping ie poor quality?
Buttons or buckles DO NOT work. Buttons pop open at the slightest impact and buckles are heavy and faffy. Both do not offer much adjustment.
I ski raced for many years and was greatfull for pads that had velcro. You could decide how tight to have them and the elasticity of velcro helped as you muscles contract and expand, some thing that buttons and buckles wouldnt do which would lead to poor muscle performance.
So in fact I think you need to change your limbs as they are obviously duff models and will not fit any padding out there.
Or MTFU and dont wear any pads 🙂
I'd have thought it's the elasticity of the straps that's to blame (or wrong size)
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They're the right size - large - medium were far too tight - felt fine in the shop and I had a good walk/jump around before buying. And my body shape could not be more normal. I also had the same problem with armour made by both Dainese and 661.
By elimination the problem can only be with the design, materials and manufacture of these pads and specifically the use of velcro (the key point connecting them).
I did expect a number of people to post on here saying "no no no it's fine" on the basis of their experience. That's fine, but my experience, my uniform, emphatic experience, is that pads that use velcro slip.
I have also worn shorts that did up with velcro and they, too, slipped. I now wear Troy Lee shorts that clip up with a plastic buckle and they stay in position fine.
So in conclusion if you want to know the truth, pls refer to this post and the original - velcro has no place on pads and it's continued use is indefensible. Cheap, tatty $hit. Note that the US army has stopped using velcro on its gear for the same reason - buttons are now preferred.
I am not convinced by the way that off-road motorbiking puts more stress on pads than mtbing. I've ridden motocross a bit too, and you throw yourself around a lot more on mountain bikes.
My velcro stays attached no matter what I do.
Same with all the velcro I wear on my KTM off road race bike, which involves riding that is way tougher than my mountain bike riding.
Are you going to start to sell an alternative that does not use Velcro then ?
Space men use it so its gotta be shit hot 😀
Does velcro have any place on handbags?
Space men use it so its gotta be shit hot
That was in like the 60s
Note that the US army has stopped using velcro on its gear for the same reason - buttons are now preferred.
I am posting this on here in hope that some manufacturers/distributors see it and finally come out with some good product. Bikes are now space-age but our protection is stuck in the ****ing early 90s.
The Amish seem to do ok without buttons or velcro.
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They're the right size
Really? There's quite a jump in 661 sizes I found, I simply could not get a Veggie knee pad that fit - medium was way too tight and large was just, well, floppy.
Do you not think these companies do any R&D?
Yes, frankly. That is exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying whoever does their R&D got their R&D degree from a $hitty university, and spent most of their time there listening to drum n bass in the back of a skoda while smoking doobies. Their main career objective at the time was probably "I dunno...designing album covers...maaan". That is my argument.
I'm not advocating buttons or buckles in isolation but a complementary system like what you get on Troy Lee shorts, with a plastic buckle/ratchet mechanism as the centrepiece, backed by a metal button. That would have the same attributes as velcro re adjustment, and not be prone to popping or slipping.
Why the resistance to change on this forum? Are you all industry/affiliated to industry? I mean really - this is such a blatant problem!
I have problems with body armour slipping and not staying in place, don't see how buckles and buttons would help over velcro, its just down to the cut, trouble is it seems fine in the shop trying it on, it doesn't become apparent that its going to be a problem till I start riding in it.
velcro is the corect material to use. Buckles and buttons risk digging in / catching and creating an extra hazard
Why the resistance to change on this forum?
No resistance to change here. Velcro works for me - I'll stick with velcro thanks.
Velcro doesn't work for you - fine - wear whatever the fork you want - no need to continue ranting at the rest of us.
wow what a rant - guess you don't like 661 😐
Own several 661 soft and hard pads, never had a problem personally, excellent gear and a real life saver.
Can only suggest you have the wrong size or don't have them as tight as they should be, they should be a tight fit.
I feel a bit silly posting about this here, from my desk, in the cold light of day - but on the trail, the 50th time the velcro interrupted a descent I'd gone through hell to get up - I was downright ready to mushroom cloud 661's offices!
dainese were notorious for slipping and rotating out of harms way in a crash.
never tried 661 so can't comment.
my poc knees don't shift even in the biggest crashes.
jhw - MemberWhy the resistance to change on this forum? Are you all industry/affiliated to industry? I mean really - this is such a blatant problem!
Aye, we all work for the body armour industry here. Especially TJ, famous for his armour-nazi, "Always wear the maximum possible protection or you'll die" approach which has brought him to board level at 661.
Or, it's possible that our findings disagree with yours. Maybe we have body armour that fits, or something equally crazy.
Everyone is different anotomically, therefore some kit will fit better than others due to the 'fit'.
E.G fox stuff tends not to sit very well and move and 661 stuff doesn't seem to suit me either, however Dainese kit fits perfectly and doesn't move a whole lot.
Maybe try another manufacturer, the velcro has lasted very well on my very well used and crashed Dainese kit too.
Im with dazzlingboy, there is no resistance to change purely because if velcro works for someone then why should they change because it is doing the job it was intended for adn if it aint broke then dont fix it.
Why dont you just shop around for an alternative or get a seamstress to put buttons on for you, or even a zip!
Especially TJ, famous for his armour-nazi, "Always wear the maximum possible protection or you'll die"
except for a helmet...
I have also worn shorts that did up with velcro and they, too, slipped. I now wear Troy Lee shorts that clip up with a plastic buckle and they stay in position fine.
Hmmm, following that argument I have had exactly the opposite experience given that my Kona shorts with velcro fastening don't move an inch once done up, whereas my Altura shorts with buttons and buckle need pulling up & retightening every 15 mins or so.
I've got some dirt cheap Fox elbow pads that are velcro closure. They don't move at all & I have worn them for extended periods in very hot weather in Spain. They have 3 closures and even loosening off the middle closure to cool down a bit every now & again doesn't make them any looser.
I did have a problem with the first pair of 661 knee/shin pads I bought, but I think it was more to do with the overall design than the velcro. All the reviews I read said that they slip on some people & not on others. I took a risk that they'd be OK and for me, they weren't. After a hard fall onto my knee & a very painful couple of weeks afterwards due to the pad shifting, I replaced them with some different 661 pads. I spent ages wearing them in the shop, jumping up & down, 'cycling' in them before deciding they would stay put. And they do. They don't move at all. The knee articulates independently to the rest of the pad. They are solely held on with velcro & they're great.
My 661 kneepads are great, have saved my kneecaps a couple of times and hardly notice them when riding.
Velcro police in full flow today i see. Really what your pissed at is the fact you have bought something, fell off and instead of breaking/smashing something you have small abrasions.
Sorry mate its done what its meant to do. Its armour/padding FFS not an all out defence mechanism against any marks/cuts/bruises.
perhaps this is more to your taste: [img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgdYNJWhJXmil1Hro3v4cSq0w1Tf3QMezranxLfatBsEjuYaNHUg [/img]
I feel a bit silly posting about this here, from my desk, in the cold light of day
I don't think you do, but you should, because you look like a moron.
It's not resistance to change, it's that other people don't tend to have your problem. It's your experience, vs the rest of the world. Look at the products that get 'designed' in conjunction with professional riders. Do you not honestly think that if there was a fundamental flaw with something as significant as body armour there wouldn't be Steve Peat Armour.
It sounds like you have the wrong size, and 'the size smaller was too small' is not proof that yours are correct!
I had some knee and shin pads with clip buckles and button poppers. They were not great! moved and came undone when you crashed. Funnily enough they stopped making them.
As others have said that's your experience and that's fine. Don't have a go at those of us who have not experienced a problem with velcro fastenings.
Or maybe you could just do the R&D yourself, develop appropriate pads and make a killing because everone elses offerings a rubbish.....
Afraid its you OP. Your at Gnar factor 15+ mate. Now that...that is some serious Gnar. Too much for anyone on here (except me) to understand.
Have you tried Fisher Price / Little Tikes / Tomee Tipeee ?
What an absolute c**k of a post !?
If your velcro keeps undoing, sorry OP, but you have bought the wrong size of pads = you have failed.
My experience, yes, eventually velcro can lose it's effectiveness as the fluff on the loop side decreases and the hook side get's contaminated, but you notice this and do something about it, clean, repair or replace.
In use I have experienced little or no problem with velcro retained pads either when riding or crashing.
To cap it all, the wing mirror of my car is currently held in place with velcro and it's been like that for weeks !!!
lol @ designer listening to drum n'bass etc.etc.
somebody'd already mentioned POC...
the full length POC pads I use come with buckle type straps + velcro , along with various ways of wearing them. Might be worth trying some on next time your in a shop
661 race knee/ shin pads for me. Velcro. Fit perfectly and remain in place even after a couple of years of use.
God man up guys.
Pads are for poofs 😉
Is the velco becoming undone? e.g. failing? Never had this even on my 661 knee pads as the verlco is very very strong. I had a knee pad slip down once due to user error not doing the pad up tight enough but no failure in velcro function.
Buttons wont allow a snug fit for different sizes including your own body changes etc.
Just don't agree with this post IME.
poppers are total fail. I had some roller hockey pads with poppers, even sweat rusted them so fast most people only had 1-2 of the 4 original poppers. Most pads now are coming with velcro...
My knee pads have a 4 inch wide strip of velcro that is about 8 inches of attachement area. Never any trouble.
You just sound bitter tbh mate that you fell off, man up.
Try POC VPD stuff of the troylee t bone knee pads both great products. More expensive than 661 but in my experience the extra cost is due to them being far better quality, comfortable and durable
As said, the Dainese and 661 pads I use have completely different layout, design and shape, yet both slip massively, albeit the 661 more than the Dainese. About the only design feature they have in common is velcro so I stick to my guns and say that for me, at least, I think this material is the problem, in itself.
I'm not saying necessarily that either a ratchet, or a button, or a velcro is individually a 100% solution to the problem but rather than any pad you pay 50 euros for should have multiple attachment mechanisms which back each other up rather than just relying on one.
Epic rant fail, so much so I agree with TJ!!!!:
TandemJeremy - Member
velcro is the corect material to use. Buckles and buttons risk digging in / catching and creating an extra hazard
POSTED 34 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
+1
What about when velrco rubs on your skin and makes it go a wee bit red?
Hi,
I am Nigel Robinson, Director of Velcro Usage on Body Armour at 661. Sat next to me is Robert Bowles, who is in charge of Velcro Alignment of Safety Pads at Dainese.
Having posted this badly constructed rant on STW, our company directors have taken heed that velcro simply does not work as you are the most normal shaped human being out there and as such, both Robert and myself have now been made redundant. From this point forward, 661, Dainese and all other body armour manufacturers will be using shiny red buttons to attach armour and velcro is destined to end up on the scrap heap.
This will obviously be a costly exercise for all companies involved, as they will need to include two spare shiny red buttons with all items. As such, expect the cost of the stunt pads to rise accordingly.
Regards,
Nigel Robinson.
Director of Velcro Usage on Body Armour at 661
Tel: 0207 661 0661
I think there's more to this anti-velcro patter than meets the eye. Have you just invested big in buttons or something?
Gotta Say OP, your not the first one to find their pads slip when subjected to a bit of sustained rattling down a Trail, generally this is down to poor fit rather than simply the way they do up, velcro comming open sounds like you might have done them up a bit too tight causing them to ping loose (Begineers Nerves?)...
You also stated you were wearing them on top of a shirt, I'd have thought this could be a factor, you'll have a marginally higher COF with bare skin Vs fabrics, might be wiser to wear them next to your skin, under any riding clothes rather than on top...
My own experience has taught be that Dainese are shite for most people, nothing to do with the Velcro, that normally stays firmly inplace while the baggy assembly of fishing net and plastic cups migrates from the wearers knees to their ankles, wouldn't touch them personally...
My Fox knee/shin combo's were better, but still prone to the odd downwards migration.
My Fox BMX knee only Jobs Never moved, however they were very tight and generally pulled half the hairs off of my legs when removed...
My current 661 Evo Knee pads are Brilliant, they stay put, they're pretty comfy/light and they take the tumbles. and yes they do up with Elasticated Velcro...
I don't really have any experieince with Elbow pads (never really felt the need for them strangely), I have had them integrated into Body armour before (Which obviously keeps them in position), is this an option for you?
The one thing I will say is I would personally shy away from Buckles and popers; bulkier, rigid plastic and metal compontents on any item of riding clothing IME they tend to dig and gouge in a tumble...
