Is that a problem with all black alu rims using rim brakes? Are there some that don't have this (purely aesthetic) issue?
If not I guess carbon wheels or disc brakes are the two options..?
DT Swiss ones with the oxic braking surface don't.
For anodised ones, Yes, because anodising is a surface treatment. The Mavic ones with the ceramic coating didn't used to wear particularly badly.
Yes
If not I guess carbon wheels or disc brakes are the two options..?
Or brakeless...
Seems like chinese carbon is the budget option here then, I hear there are some decent options around today.
Also found that this was discussed ad nauseum here: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131819
To be fair slightly scuffed rims would be low down on the pictured bikes list of aesthetic issues.
Seems like even the DT coating isn't that good "From my experiance I can confirm that OXIC coating from DT works great in dry conditions. In wet is very fragile, lasts very short and is not as good as advertised on DT website."
Is that a problem
In what way do you regard it as a "problem"?
Most black alu rims have an un-anodised brake track anyway IME.
What beard oil do you use?
And why are you posting pics of track bikes (which don't have brakes)?
cause
Mavic Open Pro CD used to be okay (the ceramic coated ones as referred to above) but even those don't completely hold up once you have wet and gritty brake pads rubbing against them. They were also dark grey rather than black.
If you are using a rim brake then not much choice really other than carbon as you say.
If you want a fixie, get a fixie with brakes, not a track bike without them.
The reasons are thus:
1) Legality, and rule 1, riding brake less is a dick move.
2) 99% of people DGAS about what bike you're on, you are a cyclist and therefore sub human, other nuances are irrelevant to them. Of the other 1%, 99% of those think you're a hipster on a fixie and don't care about further nuances of your bike. Of the 1% of the 1% (other fixie riding hipsters) you'd probably get more kudos riding something that actually looked like it was ridden 365 days a year rather than looking like you got lost on the way to the velodrome wobbling around east London on an occasionally dry day.
Besides, track riders wouldn't be seen dead outside a velodrome. Tubs are a faff to fix after a puncture, riding outside gets punctures. And indoor velodromes won't let you ride bikes that look like they've been ridden outside.
And...... this time of year silver rims are hidden under a crust of brake dust anyway, what's the problem.
What beard oil do you use?
Bulldog if I want to smell nice, beard balm if i just want to make it shiny.
Personally looking to build a fast singlespeed (again), the frames I've shown are designed for both track and street use w brakes.
Black wheels look sweet on some frames, but wondering if it's worth a damn if the black just rubbs off, hence this thread.
Seems like carbon is the only surefire option, and then whether cheap or used carbon wheels are safe is another can of worms 😁
I hated the brake rub on black rims or the silver brake surface on a black rim.
Just upgrade to disc and don't worry about it again.
Finding a track frame that has disc brake mounts is not going to happen, a track frame shouldn't even have holes for calliper brakes (mine doesn't)
Seems like carbon is the only surefire option, and then whether cheap or used carbon wheels are safe is another can of worms 😁
Well, that and whether it's worth bothering with carbon rim brakes in the wet.
Why not just go with some nice deep silver rims? Less fashion-victimy. On the flip side, less fashionable so less choice.
I'd go disk brakes and deep carbon rims. I think it looks ace on a steel bike. If you want to impress hipsters, get those Pauls anniversary calipers.
Finding a track frame that has disc brake mounts is not going to happen
Genesis day 1, surly cross check, Arkose SS, Charge Plug, All City Nature Boy, On-One Pompetamine. Or any road disk frame with a PF30 converter.
I wouldn't mind converting to disc on the front and running the rear fixed for the ultimate bastard hybrid, but I'd need a new fork and wheel, which also wouldn't really match the rest of the bike.
I'd rather just get a cheap pair of carbon wheels and sell the original ones, it's flat where I live so overheating isn't likely, also the reason why singlespeed is appealing (48x14T as I like to mash).
Thx for the suggestions notaspoon!
Not so much the overheating, just the lack of friction once wet.
Genesis day 1, surly cross check, Arkose SS, Charge Plug, All City Nature Boy, On-One Pompetamine. Or any road disk frame with a PF30 converter.
Looks like you missed the track frame part of my "finding a track frame". Yes there are loads of single speed frames but no track frames.
I wonder if anyone can spot the clue in the words 'track frame' that hints at why they are not very good for the road.
My carbon rims are nice and black. No overheating. They've not had that much riding in the rain (why go out in the rain?) but what they _have_ had has been fine.
Who (bar hipsters) actually wants to ride a track frame on the road.
Utterly the entirely wrong tool for the job.
Looks like you missed the track frame part of my “finding a track frame”. Yes there are loads of single speed frames but no track frames.
Indeed, but the OP doesn't want a track bike
On Ambrosio Cronos etc it just rubbed off round the spokes which would really set off some folk these days
These are examples of hybrid track/road frames, designed for the track and road. The key feature is the horizontal dropouts. Geo is a bit more aggressive than pure SS frames (which I like), the trade-off is lack off disc brake or fender mount options.
Quite like the look of that Aventon TBH, I've got delusions of joining the local track league next year so that + an easily removed front brake and cross-top lever could be a good setup that avoids having to drive to the track (it's an outdoor track to tubs are less of a benefit). Something like a Langster would also be an option, but possibly too road biased.
These are examples of hybrid track/road frames, designed for the track and road.
They are not really hybrid track/road frames, they are track frames that have drilling for brakes to expand the market. That is the only difference.
Who (bar hipsters) actually wants to ride a track frame on the road.
Me. I have ridden track frames on road and gravel for the last 20 years and ride around 4,000 miles per year on one. They ride pretty much like a road bike with a slightly higher BB yet are much cleaner looking (helped even more by riding brakeless) and I just prefer them.
kerley
Looks like you missed the track frame part of my “finding a track frame”. Yes there are loads of single speed frames but no track frames.
Most full suspension track frames have disc mounts. I run Lyriks on mine.
Indeed, but the OP doesn’t want a track bike
Well maybe the OP shouldn't have posted two pictures of track bikes and then also stated they like the more aggressive geometry of a track frame...
Ceramic braking surfaces are the only option that doesn't rub off. (Mavic CD ceramic, the DT one both mentioned above, and Rigida even does it)
It can chip off if you hit potholes etc. though.
Calm down Kerley, you've argued yourself into a circle.
a track frame shouldn’t even have holes for calliper (sp) brakes
they are track frames that have drilling for brakes
They ride pretty much like a road bike with a slightly higher BB
No they dont - unless your reference point is 20 years out of date.
The Aventon should look even better in person, but I suspect the tone of the paint varies between production batches, hopefully it looks closer to this:
Kerley: not sure if they have a pur(ist) track geo, seems like most of the Cordobas end up on the street?
Calm down Kerley, you’ve argued yourself into a circle.
Not at all. A track frame clearly doesn't need holes for brakes. If however you take a track frame and drill it for brakes then it is still a track frame - as the two examples pictured in this thread
Looking at the geo chart it's actually steeper/taller than some out and out track frames.
Semantics though, road bikes aren't a homogeneous set of geometry figures and neither are track frames. You could probably find some Crit specific frame with similar geometry if you shopped around.
Not at all. A track frame clearly doesn’t need holes for brakes. If however you take a track frame and drill it for brakes then it is still a track frame – as the two examples pictured in this thread
So we've ascertained that a whole gamut of fixed gear frames with anything from out and out track geometry through to disk braked SSCX bikes is available. Track/road hybrids if you will?
FWIW the difference between that Cinelli and my CAAD4 road bike is 8mm in the BB, the HA is the same. The Aventon is half a degree steeper. It's different, but not to the extent it's going to become unrideable.
No they dont – unless your reference point is 20 years out of date.
My reference point is 20 years out of date yes. I hadn't realised that the geometry of the road bike had changed in the last 20 years, enlighten me.
Anyhow, I like riding them on the road.
0.5 degree of head angle, 10mm less rake and 10mm less BB drop do not make a bike go from the perfect fast road bike to something "Utterly the entirely wrong tool for the job"
Semantics though, road bikes aren’t a homogeneous set of geometry figures and neither are track frames. You could probably find some Crit specific frame with similar geometry if you shopped around.
Agree, although the higher BB of the track frame is fairly consistent.
Do you really want a 74 degree head angle track bike? My lightest road bike is a carbon Dolan Seta track bike with a Ritchey monocoque road fork and a front brake. Sure you can swap to carbon rims, but if you are running just a front brake, the I would not as breaking performance will be impacted. In fact my fastest HED race wheels are alloy rims because I like the braking.
Black Open Pro rims with shiny brake track, shiny spokes and hubs and you will have a fine-looking bike that weights little. If you want nice high front, get a Dolan Seta. You can drill out the front Alpina fork which is made for a front brake - I have that set up on my fixed TT bike (Dolan pre cursa).
And don't run it singlespeed. It hurts the baby robbins.
Black is passé.
Highly polished alloy rims with silver spokes look much better, especially with red. And there's no problem about the brake track colour then...
The Aventon should look even better in person,
Couldn't look much worse!
@joshvegas do show us a beautiful track bike/singlespeed! you've got me all excited now
BTW speaking of CAADz
Fuji Feather
I wouldn’t mind converting to disc on the front and running the rear fixed for the ultimate bastard hybrid, but I’d need a new fork and wheel, which also wouldn’t really match the rest of the bike.
I actually did this for a while for use as a year-round commuter.
It was fine while the weather was nice, but if front wheel grip couldn't be guarunteed (i.e. in the wet or icy months) I was always a bit more concerned about my ability to stop. while you can stop a fixed bike using the drivetrain alone, it's never as effective as a brake if you've only got one conventionally braked wheel it's always a bit spicier in winter...
These days I still run the same bike fixed (brakeless) rear, with a front rim brake (flogged the disc fork), but it's got a pair of risers now, the guards have gone and is only really for fair weather use as a pub bike.
TBH it sounds like function is taking 2nd place to aesthetics here.
If you want to be on the absolute bleeding edge have a matching frame and fork and not scuff your rims could you consider fitting a drum brake on the front? None of the other Hipsterfixie****s will have one of those yet...
AliExpress carbon on my Kona
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I want to make riding more fun, and not just a slog from A to B in the most effective way possible. Aesthetics is part of it, so is light weight, certain handling characteristics, low maintenance needs, I also like to grind high gears partly due to building my legs doing so. Aesthetics is less than 50% of this.
Aventon Cordoba plus 38 mm chinesium carbon wheels seems to be the budget way to go here, sad they're so expensive in Europe compared to the US.
Like this you mean?
The aventon is grim.
The cinelli is not bad.
But skinny steel.... Phwoar
Add skinny wheels... Phwoarerer
Add an njs stamp or two... Fappity fappity fap.
I want to make riding more fun, and not just a slog from A to B in the most effective way possible. Aesthetics is part of it, so is light weight, certain handling characteristics, low maintenance needs,
That is exactly why I ride track frames on the road and gravel.
You could certainly do lightweight with carbon rims and the Dolan Seta frame that TiRed mentions. Could be sub 6kg. Lots of good track frames on eBay if you don't mind used. My current frame is a Langster Pro (1500g frame with 340g full carbon fork) which only cost £200 and was in mint condition. Weight with road tyres and no special light parts is 6.3kg
You should also go fixed, single speed just feels a chore compared to it.
Add skinny wheels… Phwoarerer
That's revolting.
@kerley thanks for the tips! Building up something from used parts could be a good idea, I'm not in a rush, although I do love the orange red of the Cordoba and it's relatively clean lines, can't find one used though so value is so-so. Trying to keep the total under €1000.
@joshvegas sorry, not into pokemon.
You don't get better looking than a real track bike with Drillium. Maybe add tyres 🙂
Yes^
Epicyclo knows man, he knows.
Except that particular bike is two big for true aesthetic bliss
I want to make riding more fun, and not just a slog from A to B in the most effective way possible. Aesthetics is part of it, so is light weight, certain handling characteristics, low maintenance needs
All Fair enough...
I also like to grind high gears partly due to building my legs doing so.
I don't know if you've ridden fixed on the road, round town and in traffic before, but a high "Grinding" gear will simply make this a slog. The one thing riding fixed has taught me is how to spin a sensible (not too high, not too low) gear a bit better across a range of cadences, because you basically have to. If you just want to mash a big manly gear and build your leg gunz an over-geared fixie isn't the right tool (IMO/IME of course)...
...38 mm chinesium carbon wheels seems to be the budget way to go here...
I think you're still valuing bling (and aero?) over maintainability there; sensible Alloy 32h rims make much better sense on a round town fixie shirley?
Also worth noting that just as not all road frames have the same geometry neither do track frames.
I have owned more than 10 different track frames and none were exactly the same.
My current frame (Langster Pro) is an out and out track frame (no brake drilings) yet it has geometry that is closer to a typical road frame. The head tube is steeper at 74 but the fork rake is 43 (whereas a lot of track forks are 30 - 38mm)
It also has a relatively long head tube at 150mm so even though I am 10mm or so higher than on a road bike, due to BB height, the stack is similar to a road bike frame with a 140mm.
It basically rides very much like a road bike albeit I am sat 10mm higher off the ground.
The strangest thing about it is that is takes tyres up to 30c which is very unusual as I have had frame where 23c was tight.
I don’t know if you’ve ridden fixed on the road, round town and in traffic before, but a high “Grinding” gear will simply make this a slog.
Tend to agree although I am very much a spinner and use a very low gear, 60GI (mainly because I ride a lot of gravel on it and where I live is very up and down).
A very high gear is difficult to get going, difficult to slow down using legs and difficult to skid stop. Great for going down hill though as I am hitting almost 200RPM on some of the hills I ride down but that is the compromise.
Bling is great until you can't stop in the rain because you only have one carbon rim. Just buy a Seta frame before they stop making them (again), build it up with some carbon bits if you must. add a set of nice wheels. I prefer low flange hubs, beacuse I always think that the typical track hubs with large flabges (and I have three sets), just don't look right on a road bike.
For serious bling, I also have a TriRig front brake, think aero campag Delta in black that actually works, that is more aero (it's a TT bike so aero helps).
For a 1000 pounds, I think you'll struggle with bling. Seta frame, handbuilt wheels (Miche hubs and CXP33 rims) and some modest finishing kit would do it. Posh lighter wheels will be hard. Carbon wheels will not come under budget.
I'm on 65", spinny on anything downhill but I tend to stick to flat-ish routes where it's perfect for the sort of typical 17-18mph at a high cadence.
That's 39-16 with 700*28c with a dynamo and guards.
In summer I could probably creep upto 80" without the dynamo and guards, but even 44-14 is 83", and 22mph at 90rpm. That's a big gear to be trying to keep on top of unless you're in a group and can draft.
If you just want to mash a big manly gear and build your leg gunz an over-geared fixie isn’t the right tool (IMO/IME of course)…
Disagree, I exclusively use the 40-11t combo on my current bike which equates to 94 GI. Leg strength has shot up, also do my squats etc. Probably helps that I'm 90 lean kgs. Suffering is fun!
Gerontophiliacs josh/epic: I had to google Drillium, here's something that came up..
My tentative plan is to get an Aventon Cordoba orange/red 58 cm fixie 48-14 for just under £600. May not need to change the wheels (for brake track aesthetics reasons) as It's flat here so can get away without using the front brake much.
I’ve had 2 pairs of DTSwiss PR1400 wheels with the black oxic coating running them in all weathers for 3 years. The black coating has lasted. It’s important you use the blue brake blocks. Great wheels that come with tubeless ready milkit kit. Bearings super-easy to service.
@fantombiker nice! could be a good and not too expensive front wheel upgrade. You can find the rims used cheap as chips.
That Aventon frame is over-priced, it offers nothing that the Dolan Pre-Cursa has for almost double the price. That includes an alloy steerer fork, which may or may not take a drill. The Alpina fork, common to the Pre-Cursa and Seta can be drilled easily for any front brake. It took me about 10 minutes to do mine. If you get one ask me how. The Pre Cursa is a great ride. The Seta has a higher front end and carbon loveliness. It's not particularly light though, except I swapped the fork for something much lighter. Black with shiny bits is a great look. Most track wheels will have shiny spokes.
I'd post some pictures, but have lost the will to do so
The Alpina fork, common to the Pre-Cursa and Seta can be drilled easily for any front brake.
Or just buy one that is already drilled (there are options for drilled or non-drilled)
The Seta frame is light for a track frame though isn't it, thought it was around 1100grams? but the Alpina fork certainly isn't light (~600 grams)
The Cordoba comes with a pre drilled carbon fork, in the us the whole bike costs a ridic £310 with free shipping!
The dolan looks great, but i love the red/orange of the cordoba.
but the Alpina fork certainly isn’t light
It's a boat anchor. My Ritchey is 340 g.
Gerontophiliacs josh/epic: I had to google Drillium, here’s something that came up..
That's delicious.
yohandsome
Gerontophiliacs josh/epic: I had to google Drillium, here’s something that came up..
That's not Drillium, that's Millium.
Then there's Choppium....
If you find an enthusiast's bike from the all steel era, odds on the seatpost has been cut to exact length for minimum insertion, ditto the stem, the hand grip portion of the bars may seem a bit short, and the top of every hex bolt has been countersunk. The cranks will probably be bevelled, and a slot cut around the base in line with the cotters. Spokes will look like piano wire. The sort of mods that could be done at home with a hacksaw, a decent file, and a hand powered drill..
It's amazing how much weight can be shed from parts that don't need it.
If you're really keen you can butt your plain gauge tubing with emery, but unless you really know what you're doing you'll end up with a lightweight folding bike.
An all steel bike could go under 18lbs, and there's someone on this forum who has the sine qua non, a 1930s Lauterweight (17.5 lbs in racing trim).
odds on the seatpost has been cut to exact length for minimum insertion,
guilty
kerley
guilty
Natch... 🙂
Probably helps that I’m 90 lean kgs
Ironically, it doesn't when single speeding, despite the reputation for big legs.
You've only got one gear, which means that as far as possible you want to go one speed. Which means you want the least change in power output between the flat, and up a hill without dropping your speed. The heavier you are the bigger that differential becomes.
The ideal singlespeed physique is more Pantani than Greipell!
Found a 58 cm CAAD..not ideal for SS but could work
If you want a fixed gear, get a fixed gear, dont dither with singlespeeds.
I still dont really like mine or believe the hype over it, but i do appreciate that its harder work, and perhapse good for technique/fitness. Its just not as comfortable, safe or quick as a singlespeed!
If you want something easily available and road-ish, maybe get a langster. They were basicly an Allez with track ends.
I love mine (and I have five). And it’s as fast as my medium chain gang can go. But you can be I the wrong gear for everything. I often do rolling rides of over 200 km. but nothing seriously hilly. Around town I ride a shopper or my recumbent trike. Mixed commuting is by fixed folder (68”). But for training it’s fixed and the size of the gear depends on the group and if I’m on my own.
You really want track ends, I used to think a back brake too, but am fine with just front and transmission on four of the bikes now. If it’s SS you have no choice. You’ll have two brakes. So track frames are out (assuming you are UK located, as that’s the law).
Langsters are great, son2 has an old one with some of my old parts. Nice frame. But if you want black bling, it has to be a Seta, so here's mine after 33 brakeless laps of Hillingdon (on the road I swap handlebars and add brakes - this is before the fork swap)
And here is one to show those black rims helped by riding brakeless (don't need brakes where I live as no pedestrians, crossings, roundabouts, traffic lights and very few junctions) 9 times out of 10 I can ride a 20 mile loop without even needing to stop at all (apart from to open gates or climb over stiles)
This is why God makes rims in silver as all bike parts should be. Tyre treads and brake blocks excluded.
Early 90s Cannondale Track, Icelandic Green *swooon*
Not with those pedals 😉 nice -17 degree stem though.