[Closed] Disc brakes in the peleton by 2017

I hope that's true, I rode a the Belvoir classic sportive on sunday, apart from my disk braked defy I did not see one other bike with discs.

But they're not traditional!
But they're so heavy!
But they're going to slow down wheel changes!

Etc.

But, mainly, Campag need time to catch up.

I wonder how light they'll get?

Won't be an issue I suppose given the 6.8kg limit.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

But, mainly, Campag need time to catch up.

Never seen that coming !!!! 🙂

given that they've also banned working on bikes out the window of a moving car I can see bike swaps being the order of the day rather than wheels - otherwise they'll have too much disk rub even using the same hubs and rotors.

Mavic neutral service is going to become a bit tricky "Do you need 140 or a 160mm rotor? I'll have your calipers realigned in a couple of minutes once I can get the pads retracted and a bit of fluid out of the system as this disks a bit thicker than your old one and it's rubbing something rotten"

But, mainly, Campag need time to catch up.

Maybe they will have to ask Shimano to help them like they did with their EPS system.

I was told this by a pro-mechanic who is also a massive Campophile; he said Campy couldn't get the system to work well enough, quickly enough and Shimano had an interest in Campy having a viable electronic groupset because it would accelerate uptake and acceptance by making one available to the pro-teams, so they agreed to give some of their technology to Campag to help them to market. They did however, patent some of the more select componentry, such as satellite shifters, which is apparently why campag don't offer them.

given that they've also banned working on bikes out the window of a moving car I can see bike swaps being the order of the day rather than wheels

Imagine the amount of 4 fingered mechanics walking around, after trying to dial in a disc brake on the move...

[i]satellite shifters[/i]

Gear changes from space! They think of everything.

Mavic neutral service is going to become a bit tricky "Do you need 140 or a 160mm rotor? I'll have your calipers realigned in a couple of minutes once I can get the pads retracted and a bit of fluid out of the system as this disks a bit thicker than your old one and it's rubbing something rotten"

maybe Superstar could offer a neutral service...

Won't be an issue I suppose given the 6.8kg limit

That and the 3:1 rule are apparently up for discussion too.

On the one hand less restrictive development is a good thing, and we all know the best rider+team would probably win regardless of bike.

On the other hand, now that trickle down has meant that you could probably build a bike to the UCI limit for <£1500 it seems a shame to move away from it and strain the link between what you can buy in Halfords and what the Pro's ride (but then at the top end they must be struggling to sell DA/Red/SR since ultegra is now comfortably able to build into <6.8kg bikes.

Then again the manufacturers are in racing to sell bikes, and R&D arms race certainly helps that.

They think of everything

THEY control [u]everything[/u].

And,

, and we all know the best rider+team would probably win regardless of bike.

It's not about the bike. Hmmm, sounds familiar.

[i]THEY control everything.[/i]

I've always liked to think that any successful braking that takes place on my bike is the random outcome of a complex system.

I believe the intention is also to formalise axles and rotor size and spacing for UCI certified bikes as well so that neutral support can continue, if there are multiple breakaways on the road and only two team cars the neutral support becomes vital to keep things moving.

Current talk is that 142 x 12 rear and 100 x 12 will be the new 'road disc' standard that you'll need to have in order to get UCI certification.

Whist it's irritating that they couldn't just use 15 x 100 and let people repurpose old MTB hubs but at least they're trying to get everyone using the same thing.

let people repurpose old MTB hubs

A standard for axles / rotor size would be the easiest way forward, at least with UCI cert it should stay usable for a decent length of time. Trek / Giant / Fox / Shimano I'm looking at you here!

What's wrong with QR? There's millions of old QR hubs out there that could be re-used.

Disks I like the sound of (in the wet anyway), but bolt through, it's more pointles than L-shaped cranks. How many ridgid MTB's have bolt through forks? Very few (and the rest I've not heard of any problems with).

I think for front wheels where a quick wheel change is required a 15mm mtb type axle is probably the safest bet - they don't 'fail dangerous' the way that an improperly tightened in the heat of the moment QR could.

How many ridgid MTB's have bolt through forks? Very few (and the rest I've not heard of any problems with).

Mine does... as do at least two other riding buddies.

It'll happen due to the manufacturer push, but I'm still struggling to see the need or benefits when racing. Decreased aero and increased rotating weight, V's a benefit that isn't much of one for most road races. I'm pretty sure I've done plenty of road races even with 50 mph descents and never braked once. You brake in a road race and you go from 8th to 80th in an instant so there really isn't a need.

Can't wait for the fun of watching 4th Cats trying to outbreak themselves into corners at crits. At least skin grows back 😉

I must say now I've got a cx bike with 105 coupled to BB7 disc brakes, that getting back on my 105 caliper braked road bike feels a bit rubbish.

The ability to one finger brake from the hoods, in the wet, is pretty darn cool.

but I'm still struggling to see the need or benefits when racing

Yeah agreed which is why we will see them at some point. Plus as the older riders retire and the youngsters come through brought up on mtb & cross discs the shift will happen. Be interesting how quickly it happens though.

I hope that's true, I rode a the Belvoir classic sportive on sunday, apart from my disk braked defy I did not see one other bike with discs

I was there as well and there were a few disc cx bikes and one nutter on his xc bike. Don't recall any disc road bikes (not to say there weren't any though!)

It'll definitely be interesting to see whether the peloton goes fully disc straight off or whether the teams will leave it up to the riders to decide.

It'll happen very quickly and almost wholesale, the UCI will push this hard.

Having a 180 strong peloton coming downhill into a mountain switchback when half the riders in the group can stop considerably faster than the other half is a recipe for disaster.

The fact that the four drive train manufacturers will have new disc brakes to push and the bike brands will have new disc brake frames to promote will help thing along of course.

Having a 180 strong peloton coming downhill into a mountain switchback when half the riders in the group can stop considerably faster than the other half is a recipe for disaster.

You don't really ride a road bike like that though it's all about little inputs and carrying speed. Plus this case already exits with people running carbon rims.

Road racing is unlike us normal riders who may for instance need to stop at a T junction at the bottom of a hill. When you are racing the roads are closed, so you'd just carry as much speed as you can through the T junction.

Four?

Shimano, Sram, Campag, FSA.

FSA will have a full road groupo by 2017, they already have 2 sponsored teams who are currently running purchased Shimano but will be swapping over to FSA as and when bits become available.

Oh and regards

You don't really ride a road bike like that though it's all about little inputs and carrying speed.

If you can carry 50MPH round a switchback then maybe you should give Dave Brailsford a call and see if he has a vacancy for a descending coach.

[quote=hatter ]Having a 180 strong peloton coming downhill into a mountain switchback when half the riders in the group can stop considerably faster than the other half is a recipe for disaster.

Which isn't going to happen, as the limit on braking isn't currently the actual braking system. I'm assuming that all the people saying people will be braking faster haven't ridden a road bike with decent rim brakes.

I'm assuming that all the people saying people will be braking faster haven't ridden a road bike with decent rim brakes.

You assume incorrectly.

Don't recall any disc road bikes (not to say there weren't any though!)

There was one, I was riding it 🙂

Disc brakes are spot on for cross as well, they are definitely growing in popularity. It's probably helped that the last two world cup winners were on discs, and this years world champion is also on disc.

The Bicycle Committee comprises three sub-committees: the Wheel Committee, the Saddle Committee, and the Technical Committee that includes a Disc Brake Working Group.

Kill. Me. Now.

Which isn't going to happen, as the limit on braking isn't currently the actual braking system. I'm assuming that all the people saying people will be braking faster haven't ridden a road bike with decent rim brakes.

Whilst I don't think it'll be the Armageddon folk are anticipating I can see some 'issues', prob more likely in a brakeaway in the wet where one rider on discs can brake very hard and very late, whilst Mr rim brakes can't. I wouldn't fancy being at the back of a chasing peloton on rim brakes in the wet when those at the front are on discs.

There are plenty of clips of riders plain and simple over shooting corners where they can't generate adequate power, generally in the wet.

I'm not really bothered about the pro peloton, they'll probably force 'em all to change at the same time or not at all and they don't pay for their own bikes. What does concern me is amateur racing, what's going to happen there? We're way more likely to suffer from the "oh fark, he's stooping quicker than me" moments that'll happen with mixed braking than the pros due to less skillz and also less controlled racing. Are the national bodies just going to say after 2017 (eg) all racers must be on discs? That's messy!

Not for me thanks, think it's an industry driven blah blah.

#leavethebikesalone

How many times have you had something unexpected appear in front of you when on your road bike battering it downhill? Believe me it happened twice to me last summer that's why I've invested in a frame and shimano hydros and believe me the braking experience is now not a squeeze and close your eyes type thing but now a squeeze, steer, squeeze stop.... if I have to
Much more reassuring and for a big bloke like me making road riding a little more enjoyable ( not much ...but a little

[quote=njee20 ]There are plenty of clips of riders plain and simple over shooting corners where they can't generate adequate power, [s]generally[/s] only in the wet.

I acknowledge that in the wet the braking system is the limiting factor. In the dry any decent rim brake is powerful enough to pitch you over the bars - if there are clips of riders overshooting corners in the dry, then that's either because they're rubbish or because they'd have flipped the bike if they'd braked harder.

Correct, but as professional bike races take place regardless of weather yours is a moot point.

I can think of examples of riders overcooking corners in the dry where more power [i]may[/i] save them. Quintana in the Vuelta springs to mind as a recent one. If it's because they're rubbish and/or not paying attention that's also a moot point, more powerful brakes may make a difference.

You seem to be arguing the theoretical, rather than the reality.

In the dry any decent rim brake is powerful enough to pitch you over the bar

Only if your weight is in the wrong place.

Regarding axle standards, this months Cyclist magazine has a preview of the Synapse disc, here's what Cannonade have to say on the issue:

[i]"We did a lot of tests with the pro team and mechanics for wheel changes. It's a huge concern for them and an ongoing problem that we face with disc brakes in the pro peloton. We timed the wheel removal with the Synapse and found it was actually quicker by a few seconds than a regular fork and calliper brake. That is the main reason we did not develop a thru-axle design. We tested this also and it increased the wheel change time by four or five times. Also a thru-axle needs to use larger bearings in the hub, which means more weight and seal drag. We've tried everything and talked with a lot of people. The mechanics pointed out that a thru-axle is simply something else in your hand when you're trying to change a wheel and that's the kind of thing no one really thinks about."[/i]

My rigid MTB is bolt through at the front and rear too. Not sure why you wouldn't, except that the majority of rigid forks are (were?) QR only.

[quote=molgrips ]In the dry any decent rim brake is powerful enough to pitch you over the bar
Only if your weight is in the wrong place.

Even if your weight is in the right place - you can't shift it that much on a road bike.

Dry performance = similar. Wet, not so. Nor durability in muddy gritty conditions. Ability to keep racing with wheel wobbles, and lots more

I suspect we'll see floating callipers soon (can i patent that?)

Dry performance = similar. Wet, not so. Nor durability in muddy gritty conditions. Ability to keep racing with wheel wobbles, and lots more

Also, rims no longer need to be a braking surface as well. Allows for more interesting aero shapes and different strength/weight set ups as well.

Also, rims no longer need to be a braking surface as well.

While that may be true, I'm less convinced the calipers will survive winter roads any better than the rims did.