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It seems you've already decided what route to take. But just a quick heads up, you can hire a full downhill bike at Antur Stiniog if he wants to try one. They use the Saracen Myst Pro sizes small through to large.
But just a quick heads up, you can hire a full downhill bike at Antur Stiniog if he wants to try one.
i'm 90% decided yes... but he's currently got 7 Enduro races booked for this year and 5 DH races booked too, so a lot of it may eventually come down to which route he wants to take and whether he accepts the consequences of that either way, either a DH bike he can't trail on, or an enduro bike he can't DH quite as well on. History and current preference say his longer term wishes currently are to race Enduro, be that at Southern Enduro, PMBA or even EWS longer term, i don't know. As we know with kids, he could easily end up turning to chess next week and never sitting on a bike again 😀 But if that happens, it does mean i get to ride his new Santa Cruz/Sworks/Whatever instead, so it's a win win for me 🙂
We've not been to Antur yet and whilst it's somewhere i'd like to take him, fitting it in is getting tough currently, but thanks for the info, it does give us an option.
Have you bought a caravan yet weeksy? Sounds like dad_taxi is your lot for the next few years... 😃
Have you bought a caravan yet weeksy? Sounds like dad_taxi is your lot for the next few years
I'm happy being Taxi as it also means i generally get to ride the same places with him, apart from the DH stuff anyway. Enduro meetings i'll be joining in and riding for sure. Some of the easier non-cat type DH races i'll jump on with him. So not only is he getting to live his dream, but so am i 🙂
I'm in a very fortunate position that both mine and his interests cross perfectly at the moment and i can promise you i'm enjoying it as much as he is...
Well, apart from hoovering out the car twice a week 😀
I don't see the caravan happening, but in 18 months or so if the finances come back to normality a bit i wouldn't be shocked if a van arrives. I've resisted it up to now and it's not been a massive issue, but i can sure see the appeal of one.
👍
Having a van is amazing especially if you're racing. Much more useful than a DH Bike.
Having a van is amazing especially if you’re racing. Much more useful than a DH Bike.
Well yes but i can't buy a van for £1200 lol. Vans are great but not really day-to-day for me... So ideally it'd be a 2nd vehicle. I debated one recently when i bought a new (old) car, but the current prices meant that anything in my budget i'd set was an absolute pile of shite or moon and back miles. Sometimes both.
I think for a decent van you'd hope will be reliable you're in the £15k+ bracket and even then based upon mates experiences, i'm not sure 'reliable' and vans go together that well.
I'm in the same boat. Desperate for a van for I'm not buying anything at current prices. The problem is when was the last time you saw prices come down after a boom? I'm not sure they'll ever be 'normal' again.
what does Mrs Weeksy do when all this riding is going on?!
what does Mrs Weeksy do when all this riding is going on?!
There's a question mate... a whole can of worms there, but she's doing OK with it all currently... I do try and encourage her to come join in on the days i'm not riding, but it's not top of her list.
Weeksy for father of the year!
Sound advice from most in this thread. Couple of things I’d add though. 13 is too young to be thinking about weight training. Body is still growing, just let the riding do the work.
As for tyres, get another of the same tread/size but in a more durable compound for his everyday riding. No point going into a race weekend on a tyre he doesn’t know. That way, when he swaps to grippy race version it’ll feel even better. At the speed maxxgrip wears you will definitely be arsed swapping it over between races.
Race organisers are always on the look out for Marshalls 😉
Ive done quite a few over the years and enjoyed it
Spend your money on reducing unsprung weight - carbon rims, lower spoke count wheels, smaller DH cassette, short cage mech. If the frame is external gear cable keep a spare 'DH' drivetrain ready - mech cable and shifter and either a spare carbon set of wheels or change the cassette for racing along with a chain for each configuration. You can then quickly change it between DH mode and Enduro.
Then Really sort the suspension on the Spesh - keep the fork chassis but swop the internals to Avalanche or equivalent, same with the shock or upgrade it. Start timing and repeat riding sections or tracks whilst twidling suspension settings - work on your lad knowing the difference between the adjustments and what they doing to the bike and how it tracks/works.
When he outgrows the bike - transfer the fork/shock to a new frame and carry on.
Only when he's destroying wheels/harshly blowing through travel/ being bucked off an enduro bike does he then need a DH bike.
Really sort the suspension on the Spesh – keep the fork chassis but swop the internals to Avalanche or equivalent, same with the shock or upgrade it. Start timing and repeat riding sections or tracks whilst twidling suspension settings – work on your lad knowing the difference between the adjustments and what they doing to the bike and how it tracks/works.
When he outgrows the bike – transfer the fork/shock to a new frame and carry on.
First, excellent post.... Just to pick up on one part...
The suspension.. that's VERY much a point of internal contention for me with him. THe little sod gives me NOTHING and i really do mean NOTHING to go on with suspension. We have what's a fairly basic setup on the bike in terms of fork and shock, both are recently serviced and setup by Sprung suspension, but he notices NOTHING on the bike.. I change X, nothing, i change Y, nothing... he just rides it... Tyres, bars, levers, suspension, pressures... nothing at all.
In some ways this is brilliant, but in some ways it's frustrating too.
I'd happily throw £400 at a CC DB ILair or coil to chuck in the bike, or a DPX2, (which i've done and he didn't notice/care) but i sit there and think "whats the point he doesn't even notice"
I do 100% hear your above... but is a bit of a problem we're having 😀
I’d happily throw £400 at a CC DB ILair or coil
Doesn't that Enduro side load the shock a whole load? In which case I'd avoid CC like the plague.
Some riders have an ability to just crack on whilst not feeling and/or caring about differences/changes. I wouldn't bother working hard on it. Get a middle of the road setup and let him smash on - its a far more relaxing way to live than thinking about the setup of each and every component on the bike.
I also would not go changing things like tyres expect for the same again when worn out. If he does suddenly have an issue then it could be down to you changing his setup for him rather than anything he's done. Like for like would be a better approach imo (in order words, cancel that Assegai, stick with the DHF that is working fine right now).
Then Really sort the suspension on the Spesh – keep the fork chassis but swop the internals to Avalanche or equivalent, same with the shock or upgrade it. Start timing and repeat riding sections or tracks whilst twidling suspension settings – work on your lad knowing the difference between the adjustments and what they doing to the bike and how it tracks/works.
When he outgrows the bike – transfer the fork/shock to a new frame and carry on.
I disagree with most of this. The likes of Avalanche don't give you a big range of adjustment, they rely on up front info and the adjusters just fine tune that. Currently he's showing little interest, so handing over a setup with multiple air chambers, LSC, HSC, HBO, HSR, LSR and god knows what else (at each end) isn't going to do anyone any favours. Especially Weeksy, who'll have a stroke when he buys and adjusts it all only to get a shrug and "feels just the same" from the teenager 😉
How fit is he? Rather than buying a DH bike, why not buy a turbo trainer setup? Obviously getting him to use it might be another thing, but if it improves his fitness then it should improve his race results which may spur him on. Ideal for use over winter.
I'd echo what everyone else has said. Burly enduro when the time is right.
I think you are a fantastic dad for all the stuff you put on here btw. You are overthinking it, but it's great that you are. Top dadding!
but he notices NOTHING on the bike
there's a whole new load of frustration to be found with someone who can change pads, bleed brakes, replace a whole drivetrain, change tubeless tyres etc.; but just doesnt ever think to do so, and rides it until it barely shifts and grinds metal on metal with tyres that are near slick in the centre.
Doesn’t that Enduro side load the shock a whole load? In which case I’d avoid CC like the plague.
Due to his Ohlins failing and being unrepairable we're now running a Bikeyoke 210*55 setup instead of the Specialized weird square end jobbie... So we can run standard 210*55 shocks on the bike.
However we've only got a fairly basic Rockshox Deluxe R installed currently as that's what we bought at the time. He's tried a DHX2 but wasn't keen/bothered, also a Deluxe RL which he thought was the same as his R model.
How fit is he?
Truth to that statement is... Depends on his mindset on a given day. He has his days where he's a bloody beast and climbs/trails like a monster.... but he has his days where he does 10 mins and wants to bail, but that's the way of been a growing young teenager i think.
You are overthinking it,
Maybe to an extent yes, but that's kinda who I am and what i do, i want to give him the best chance possible to be the best he can be, within the obvious limitations of 'real world'. I can't take him to Glentress every weekend as time and life won't allow that, but i can do little things to make either his bike or him the best he can be within the constraints we have.
why not buy a turbo trainer setup?
As you'd expect, we have one of those already but it doesn't get used as much as it maybe ought to i'll admit.
Especially Weeksy, who’ll have a stroke when he buys and adjusts it all only to get a shrug and “feels just the same” from the teenager
Mostly i just laugh when he says it. Because in honesty, what else can you do when someone is disappearing away from you like you've never ridden a bike before and just says "can't tell any difference" but then still buggers off. Then launches himself over gap jumps without much thought.
The funny thing is, he's far from alone. We've got a core group of riders who are his mates, who ride and race together... they're very similar, they just ride what they're put on top of and nail it... Watching them all, is hysterical.
I also would not go changing things like tyres expect for the same again when worn out. If he does suddenly have an issue then it could be down to you changing his setup for him rather than anything he’s done. Like for like would be a better approach imo (in order words, cancel that Assegai, stick with the DHF that is working fine right now).
Right or wrongly we're running the DHF on the back and the Shorty on the front. Looking at it it's 3C DH Maxxgrip. The DHF is Maxxis Minion DHF Exo TR. Both are fairly new and not particularly worn at this stage. But i can't see an Assegai being that much of a completely different tyre ?
But this may be starting to get off topic and weird now... I was thinking about 417 Flyup which is in 2 weekends time doing some testing with completely different rubber of a Trail Boss on the front and something like a Specialized Ground Control on the back to give lighter weight and better rolling resistance, obviously at the expense of some grip, but i don't know if he'll care about the grip, but may actually benefit from the rolling speed and weight..
Only the really longest, roughest or steepest tracks in the country really require a DH bike for a chance of winning. Think fort william for length/roughness, steep stuff at llangollen etc.
Having said that, I've had a few over the years and it really encouraged me to hit stuff harder, send bigger things than I ever had before, and they do open up new lines you might not have considered before. Then you can take the shorter bike and give it a go on that. So I found it good for progression, and tbh they are pretty fun. Get a cheap one and sell it in a year or two for nearly the same amount, you haven't really got anything to lose. You can learn a lot from riding different bikes
I disagree with most of this. The likes of Avalanche don’t give you a big range of adjustment, they rely on up front info and the adjusters just fine tune that. Currently he’s showing little interest, so handing over a setup with multiple air chambers, LSC, HSC, HBO, HSR, LSR and god knows what else (at each end) isn’t going to do anyone any favours. Especially Weeksy, who’ll have a stroke when he buys and adjusts it all only to get a shrug and “feels just the same” from the teenager
Then weeksy will have to accept that his lad wont progress much further () as his lads natural talents arent good enough on their own or he'd be dominating on a BSO. Speaking with Criag@Avy about his lads weight and riding style and then working with his lad to dial in the settings more than likely would yield an improvement.
or just let him have fun riding at his current level with his mates - he'll discover booze/members of the opposite (or same) sex at some point and the riding will take a different direction again!
Then weeksy will have to accept that his lad wont progress much further
That's not an issue. I'm not hung up on the results and neither is he... He goes well both in Enduro and DH stuff, but he's not going to dominate and win titles unless something dramatic changes. He'll be a decent top end racer at where we're pitching him, but we honestly don't do it purely for that, we do it for the days out, the nights away at the "Sleepy Moon" and the experiences at different places. One of our favourites last year was Haibike at Machynlleth, because of meeting a fellow forumite, but just the whole experience of ice-cream by the seaside the day before, random pubs for tea and drinks and waking up in a bit of Wales we've never seen. Doing well in the results is just a bonus, but obviously there's a part of both of us that wants to do well. Neither of us have an expectaion of 'making it' as a racer, be that a DH or Enduro racer.... we just play and have fun.
Trail Boss on the front
That’s just mean u less you want to teach him to ignore his front brake. Basically a rear only, fair weather, trail tyre in my book.
Forgot it was a Shorty up front. Shorty - DHF through the winter and DHF - DHF in summer (plus wheels setup with muds ready to go) would be a safe combo. Casings and compound to suit the race. Assegai might be just fine, but I can’t see the point in changing?
Aye trail boss on the front? Eeek. Rear it’s ok.
That’s just mean u less you want to teach him to ignore his front brake
i'm just kind of randomly thinking out loud... by all means tell me an idea is stupid....
The Assegai, in my defence i didn't know the Shorty was Maxxgrip and DH compound until i just checked...
Don't forget... he's not the only one learning here 🙂 i am too. Just in a different way.
That’s not an issue. I’m not hung up on the results and neither is he… He goes well both in Enduro and DH stuff, but he’s not going to dominate and win titles unless something dramatic changes. He’ll be a decent top end racer at where we’re pitching him, but we honestly don’t do it purely for that, we do it for the days out, the nights away at the “Sleepy Moon” and the experiences at different places. One of our favourites last year was Haibike at Machynlleth, because of meeting a fellow forumite, but just the whole experience of ice-cream by the seaside the day before, random pubs for tea and drinks and waking up in a bit of Wales we’ve never seen. Doing well in the results is just a bonus, but obviously there’s a part of both of us that wants to do well. Neither of us have an expectaion of ‘making it’ as a racer, be that a DH or Enduro racer…. we just play and have fun.
that gets a double thumbs up from me and a nomination of 'dad of the year' award for you.
Trailboss on the front - not for me - that’s a summer rear tyre in my mind. Or winter on a hardpack trail centre trail.
417 on your existing selection of tyres I’d go dhf on the front. If it’s a blue then possibly Trailboss on the back but something like a dissector would be better.
Dhr2 is my favourite back tyre other than during the summer. Just does everything well.
Thanks all for the discussions on this one. I've settled now on the 'wait and see' and had a play with some tyre combos.
So for 417 he'll have 2 sets of tyres
Front : Shorty 2.5 in DH/Maxxgrip
Rear : DHF 2.4 in 3C Maxterra
Front : Assegai 2.5 in DD/Maxxgrip
Rear : Completely unknown currently. I've got a choice of 4-5 from a Trail Boss high grip(new) to new Spec Ground Control and potentially a couple of part worns arriving this weekend.
Wheelset 2 are as much a spare set of wheels just in case something breaks/has issues on race day really. Over the past year i've usually changed the spring in the coil on my G170 to a 300 the day before and i take that for him (or the other 2 teens who race with us) on the DH days just in case, but we've never actually needed it. But taking the spare wheels will mean we have contingency that means he'd still get to race on his own bike.
Funnily enough, in all of this, i've completely neglected to even think or consider what rubber i have on the G-170 and had the thought of stealing the new Assegai that turns up today/tomorrow but then decided that's me being a bit selfish so moved on from that. So i've got a Vigilante on the front and a Butcher on the rear... i'm happy enough, but i do like a bit of experimentation at times. I struggle to find anything i like more on the front than the Vigilante though.
In a random turn of events i was thinking about lobbing this at the Sworks for trying out though.
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/3118818/
I know it's a 210*60 and he runs a 210*55 but i can't see any reason for clearances that the 60 stroke wouldn't work OK. But then we'd end up in a bit of a suspension setup quandry with 400 different settings lol.
I did consider a Bomber CR from TFT or J-tech but noticed on J-tech site that Fox will no longer warranty a Bomber if used on a bike with a Yoke setup. I then confirmed this via email, which really shocked me... But it's their ball-game and i can't change their mind so didn't buy the better shock after all.
Specialized enduros with the yoke linkage have been known to eat coil shocks. Especially ones with smaller diameter pistons like Fox.
Ibis Ripmos are similar and they’ll only suggest certain coil shock manufacturers who run chunky pistons. They go with DVO Jade X coils as standard as they run a 14mm piston rather than the 9mm on Fox DHX shocks.
Effectively the length of the shock eye to eye is extended by the yoke which puts more pressure on the shock.
Also that one has the same eye to eye so will be fine at full extension but will compress further with the longer stroke - you’d have to check at full compression that the back wheel didn’t hit the frame / nothing else was going to have a problem.
I don’t know enough about the db coil il to comment but perhaps you can get an external stroke spacer to reduce it. You can on a Fox DHX2 - they just bolt onto the shock body. And it seems Rockshox deluxe coils can use an external spacer for the same reason.
Racing on the gnarlier / rootier tracks a coil (setup correctly) would probably find some more rear grip though if you find one that’s ok on the bike / can get a setup right with lack of feedback from your lad 🤷♂️
Based upon what i've seen when i remove the shock to change/service etc, i don't think it would be an issue. It's certainly getting a little bit of thought in terms of options/plans though.
MAybe i'm just bored and up a bit early this morning 😀