[Closed] Demo review of Banshee Spitfire and Transition Scout (other bikes suggestions?)

Sounds like you want/need a Giant Trance SX.

Yep. Ignore the mass produced/just another Giant snobbery and buy one.

The frame is very light, the DW/Maestro link rear suspension is a firm pedalling platform but can also take a thrashing without bottoming out, it will take modern forks from 140-160 and comes with all the current trendy stuff if that's your thing: 135x10 rear end with dropouts included for 142x12 if you like added stiffness out back, internal cable routing including for stealth droppers etc...

I looked at both the frames you tested before buying the Trance, also looked at the Orange-5, Nukeproof Mega TR, Kona Process 134 and the Yeti 575....they were all around the £1000-1500 mark but ultimately none seemed to offer what the Trance did except for some boutique exclusivity...and I'm too old and cynical to care about that anymore!

Yes, ok I am being a brand snob in regards to Giant. However, I am prepared to listen and will book a test ride if I can. Do you know if you can buy the Trance SX as frame only?

Seems to me if you demo a bike and really like it that is the one to buy! I can evangelise about my own bike as well if that helps though.
Weird back triangle on the giant with a strange spindly bit on it!

I can evangelise about my own bike as well if that helps though.

I do like it; its just I complain the Nicolai is heavy on long rides, and that Spitfire isn't going to solve that. Its the one bike does it all issue! Not discounting it yet though!

Does the Giant run an overdrive fork?

Another minor potentially helpful comment - if the climb switch on the DBInline works as well as it does on the DBAir CS I would really recommend it as a rear shock. It is so much better than other versions I have used, and saves loads of energy on a long ride. Together with a half damped Pike up front it is a great combination for the flats and up hills.

New Trance is a standard tapered head tube/steerer combination, they've abandoned the experiment with their silly oversized Overdrive steerer or whatever is was called!

The spindly bit in the Giant's rear triangle is simply bracing, not attractive admittedly.

The standard Trance frame is the same as the SX, the only difference is with the complete bikes the SX comes with a 160mm fork and the rest of the range gets a 140mm item but the same frame throughout the lineup.

Andy, the DB Inline was excellent. The CS allowed you to climb while still having some absorption.

The first climb switch I've ever used that really works - it seems to completely eliminate pedal bob but still feeling like you get the advantages of full suss, and almost never letting the rear wheel spin out on loose / technical ground.

I do like it; its just I complain the Nicolai is heavy on long rides, and that Spitfire isn't going to solve that. Its the one bike does it all issue! Not discounting it yet though!

The weight thing is a strange one - it's hard not to think it matters but if you're 10 stone and the Nicolai is 29lbs vs the Spitfire at 30lbs, then you're comparing a total weight of 169 and 170lbs to haul up the hills - barely 0.5% difference. On the other hand the Spitfire is a very efficient pedaller whilst I believe your Nicolai is more active under pedalling? That (and the slightly bigger wheels) should far outweigh the tiny extra weight - but you've ridden it, how did it compare as a pedaller?

If I get around to doing the South Downs Way in a day (which is 100 miles and 12,000' of climbing) this summer or the next, I'm pretty certain I'll do it on my Spitfire rather than my Soul, despite the latter being 4lbs lighter.

Did you ride it in the neutral setting?

My buddy has just got a spitfire and has turned in to a machine gone on the ups and downs very upsetting :D.
Regardless of the weight of the frame it could be worth looking at wheels to when you change as a lighter weigh wheel/tyre combo could make a huge difference. Giroscopic forces and all that.

thanks for the review, interesting reading! I have a large scout on order after my demo and didn't test the spitfire, although i did consider one to start with. I'm not sure if i'd want to try the spitty now just in case 🙂

I definitely agree about the suspension being active on the scout though, levels of rear grip were impressive.

If you liked the Spitfire but want something that is maybe more suited to wheels on the ground trail riding then try a Phantom (basically the spitfires 29er brother).

I demoed a Spitfire and bought a Phantom. In my opinion, unless you are riding DH tracks, it is the better trail bike in every way (climbs better, is more nimble and feels better on the decents). At 5ft 9 you would be perfect size for a medium (which pedals also have 🙂 )

See my thought process buying a new bike was to get something that was really capable downhill as long as I didn't sacrifice much uphill. Depends if you expect to own more than 1 bike but I was after 1 bike for everything, and I wouldn't think of a 29er as that. I ended up with a 160/160 bike and I'm very happy! Won't use the E word...

Funny, that's what I did too. I also didn't think 29ers did what I wanted in terms of downhill (priority for me too). I'm glad I tried one though as it turns out in my case that they do (including colorado and the alps) and are much more fun for everything else and climbs so much better. Apart from riding on DH tracks.

Although for some reason people never believe me until I practically force them to have a go on mine in order to put an end to the arguments about how "29ers apparently can't do XYZ so I discounted them". I wish I got commission from Banshee and other short travel trail 29er makers as I know of at least 3 definite sales (from 4 people having rides) as a result 😕

But from the description in the original post I'd say a short travel 29er like the Phantom, Smuggler or Segment would be perfect.

Yes, ok I am being a brand snob in regards to Giant. However, I am prepared to listen and will book a test ride if I can. Do you know if you can buy the Trance SX as frame only?

Trance can be bought frame only, standard and SX share the same frame, slacker head angle is achieved using a longer fork (Pike 160 over the 140 Revelation on the non-sx)
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/model/trance.27.5.frameset/19232/77350/#overview

Did you ride it in the neutral setting?

Agree with the above some weight could be saved on wheels etc but I guess I am cautious when starting from a heavier base level. Also agree that basically I could really have one less beer the night before 🙂

Re the phantom, one of the guys at Pedals owns one and was signing its praise. Have to say I never had 29er on the radar. Sadly we couldn't stay long enough to try it.

Re pedalling...went out on the Nicolai this afternoon. Reminded me it is actually a damn good pedaler itself and feels good on a local ride due to its bit more 'xc' angles but it did also feel steep. Also made me realise that the Scout really was too plush for me.

Thanks for the info re the Trance frameset. Assumed as the shock was different to the SX it was different.

Arghhhh that Spitfire is still very much in my mind!!

I'm also a Spitfire owner and it's my only mtb and use it for absolutely everything. The gearing was key for me and it took a fair bit of trial and error to get it right on a 1x10 setup as started of with a 11-36 and 34t upfront, went to 30t and it was too spinny but now got it just right with a 32t and a 40t one-up and it's great.

I've done a couple of 30 mile rides on it with a good mix of climbing and it's handled it brilliantly thanks to the CCDBA because it's such a good shock and you get very little pedal bob. Weights not an issue either as it's such an efficient pedaller so I wouldn't get hung up on that. If the fact it's 30lbs is worrying you then you should probably be looking at something more trail/XC orientated IMO but then you'll save what maybe 4lbs and not have the long, low or slack geometry that you're after.

Is anyone running a Zee mech and 40t on their Spitfire? Any issues with chain growth?

Yeah that's what I'm running but have had no issues since going to the 40t with chain growth. When I first built my Spitty up I went through 3 chains in about 5 rides due to problems with chain growth and alignment, turned out when the shop I got the frame from fitted my BB they put the spacer on the wrong side, after I sorted that it's been fine.

Are you fitting the chain with the shock fully compressed to set the length?

Nothing yet - looking to get one if the fun police allow it.

But yes, that's how I would do it.

I'd suggest going with the One-up as it comes with the 16t sprocket, oh and full instructions for setup. Is your Zee mech the one that takes up to a 36t as if it is the 40t is the max size you can go to without needing to modify the mech with the rad cage. Oh and you'll also need an XT cassette since it comes apart as if your running a SLX you'd need a hack saw to mod the cassette.

If the fact it's 30lbs is worrying you then you should probably be looking at something more trail/XC orientated IMO but then you'll save what maybe 4lbs

Maybe 2lbs with a carbon frame - definitely not 4!

I started out with a Zee mech but found it wasn't keen on the chain growth plus an 11-36 cassette's range - a medium cage SLX has been working much better since fitting. Mine had a 34t chain ring to start - after about 6 months I dropped to a 32t and that still gives plenty of top-end whilst being easier uphill. The smaller chain ring size causes more anti-squat so it bobs even less.

Cheers for taking the time to write the review ahsat.

unfortunately, your wants and needs couldn't be further from mine. Can I ask you a few questions about the Scout?

Did you have a shock pump with you? you don't mention it. and did you play around with shock pressure/compression settings or just ride it the way it left the shop?
How much do pedals charge for a Demo of it? and did they spend any time with yu you to adjust bar position/stem height, shock and fork settings to your taste before you left? (Hard to tell from the pic but the bars look quite high and the saddle awkwardly far forwards)

How much do pedals charge for a Demo of it? and did they spend any time with yu you to adjust bar position/stem height, shock and fork settings to your taste before you left? (Hard to tell from the pic but the bars look quite high and the saddle awkwardly far forwards)

ahsat, i met you in GT on saturday. I was on the pretty similar spitfire as you.

I know i raved about the bike if you need any more info drop me a line. email in profile. 😀

The Solo is worth demoing. It was the one of the Santa Cruz range that suited me. Bronson wasn't lively enough.

Have you considered a Bird Aeris?
Don't be fooled by the slack/long/low angles - it's really well balanced and never felt like 'too much' bike on my demo around Cannock.

After demoing about 10 bikes it's what I settled on. It's a tad lighter than the Banshee I think, and the super-low price allows you to spec a lighter build in comparison, so it works out pretty well overall.
For example, mine will be around 28.5lb.

Carbon wheels can make a nice different to how the light the bike feels - Bird do their own.

I think they have demo bikes, but you may have to travel down south.

Did you have a shock pump with you? you don't mention it. and did you play around with shock pressure/compression settings or just ride it the way it left the shop?
How much do pedals charge for a Demo of it? and did they spend any time with yu you to adjust bar position/stem height, shock and fork settings to your taste before you left? (Hard to tell from the pic but the bars look quite high and the saddle awkwardly far forwards)

Saddle height was adjusted and we adjusted the fork on the trail. Didnt really feel I needed to play with the stem etc but they were very useful guys so sure would be happy to help.

Aye and as Dave said £30.

I prefer a very stiff pedalling action but some people like it far more active. If so, may well be the bike for you. Just like Dave liked it. Worth giving it a try.

ahsat, i met you in GT on saturday. I was on the pretty similar spitfire as you.

I know i raved about the bike if you need any more info drop me a line. email in profile.

Have you considered a Bird Aeris?

Do you mean 'light' or do you mean fast rolling? I thought SC 5010 from what you were asking maybe with a slackset if you want a more relaxed head angle, but you can make a bike feel a lot quicker by using a fast-rolling rear tyre with a grippier front, something like a Minion DHF up front and an Ardent Race or an Ikon at the back for example.

I remember when Cotic demoed the Rocket and people were saying that it 'didn't ride like a 30b bike'. If you looked closely at the pics, the demo bikes appeared to have Ikons out back. Set up like that, a 30b bike is still a 30lb bike obviously and on steep climbs you'll still be pushing a heavier mass against gravity, but it'll be significantly easier to pedal. Cue lots of: 'it doesn't feel like a 30b bike' etc. Though obviously some of that is also pedalling directness.

Said the man who'd been riding a 24.5lb odd Ragley Ti with 2.35 Ice Spiker Pros for a week in a graphic , somewhat tiring, demonstration of the difference that higher levels rolling resistance make even with a light bike 😐

Light bike with fast tyres for the win, but you can do a lot with careful tyre choice to make bikes feel and ride quite a lot quicker on climbs without losing too much grip elsewhere - all imho, ymmv etc.

I guess I'm saying, don't get too hung on on weight.

ahsat - Member
TBH no *goes off to have a look** Looking at one of your threads can you spec it with the CC shock?

So purely out of curiosity, does anyone know the spitfire frame weight?

I've got the Rune and have managed some pretty big XC rides on it and I'm not that fit! Despite weighing over 32lbs, it pedals well, climbs better than a 160mm bike has any right too and does genuinely ride like a much lighter bike.

I run lightish wheels (Easton Havocs) with a Magic Mary front tyre and either a Hans Dampf or Rock Razor on the rear depending on the time of year.

I did a big XC ride in Swaledale and thought that I was going to get destroyed - most of the people I was with were on XC bikes and most of them proper roadies. Amazingly, I didn't do too badly on the climbs. But I guess I'm happy to haul a bit of extra bike up a hill to have fun going back down. Banshee make some great bikes. I love my Rune but if I was goint to replace it, it'd be a Spitfire which is the bike that I probably should have bought but didn't due to lack of demo availability.

So purely out of curiosity, does anyone know the spitfire frame weight?

Thanks Alex for the info.

Agree BWD re tyres though the HD/NN combo is probably what I'd ride anyway. It certain pedals lighter than expected for such a capable bike.

For example, mine will be around 28.5lb.

For a bike with a frame that's nearly 8lb with a M+ Debonair?

I'd be amazed if it's under 30.

Carbon rims, cranks, bars.
1x10 XT
I'm not sure it's the Monarch+ might just be the Monarch with a debonair can. Could be wrong - Ben might clarify.

Still not a hope in hell. Struggle to get a 6.5lb carbon Nomad to that weight.

My Reign, which is a 5.4lb frame without shock, carbon wheels, cranks, XX1 is only just 28.5lbs.

I guess we'll see in a few weeks. I would put the one I demo'd at about 30lb, and that was 2x10 SLX.
(all weights are without pedals btw as that's what I consider the industry standard method)

My spitfire with Xo1, 26" Magic Mary up front and Hans Dampf at the rear and a CCDB Inline is 29.9 LBS. Medium frame.

Plus its stealth black so climbs that wee bitty better and descents faster. FACT 🙂

I'd be going from TRc, with the same kit barring wheels, so probably a three poundish jump I guess. Not that I'm about to do it but you never know!

Ive just gone from a large Banshee Rune to large Transition Scout.

I rode the Rune for about a year - agree with what everyone has said, the KS link design is great for pedaling and it will get you up the hills (takes a little more effort in the slackest geo setting!).

My main issue was the BB height when the frame was running 650b wheels. If i had the frame in the neutral setting it felt a nervous in corners at speed. I changed to the slacker setting to lower the BB, however the bike then lost what playfullness it had due to the slack head angle - it just felt a little dead & cumbersome on anything that wasn't pointing straight down!

The Scout is a lot more nimble - OK ive lost 35mm of travel on the rear end and 20mm on the front, but i feel ive got that playfullness back. The ETT is very slightly longer, but the reach has increased by 15mm giving me a little more cockpit room. Combine this with much shorter chainstays and low bottom bracket and you have a winner! The 67 degree head angle is great for climbing and TBH hasn't really affected the DH prowess due to the longer TT, reach and low BB. Also the bike manuals for ever - it just sits on the back wheel!

The Monarch Debonair is easy to set up and feels great - i spent a lot of time messing with the CCDB air on the Rune - you can spend ages agonising over rebound/compression settings, even after you've set it to the recommended base tune. I always had a niggle that the shock wasn't performing as well as it could do!

I thought long and hard about whether i really needed more than 130mm of travel on the rear end - i very rarely ride DH these days and i think Alps trips are off the cards for a couple of summers (i'd buy a DH bike anyway!)The Scout will still cope on the DH tracks that are local to me - just have to be a bit more picky with line choices etc!

Overall i think the Scout is a great little trail machine - remember less is more!

I rode the Rune for about a year - agree with what everyone has said, the KS link design is great for pedaling and it will get you up the hills (takes a little more effort in the slackest geo setting!).

My main issue was the BB height when the frame was running 650b wheels. If i had the frame in the neutral setting it felt a nervous in corners at speed. I changed to the slacker setting to lower the BB, however the bike then lost what playfullness it had due to the slack head angle - it just felt a little dead & cumbersome on anything that wasn't pointing straight down!

Yes, the Rune's BB height is 10mm higher than the Spitfire's and it's 1 degree slacker of head angle (so 64.7 deg with a 160mm 27.5 Pike in the slack setting).

No carbon Spitfire I presume...that might save the extra pound or so...

No. No carbon. But I don't trust myself with carbon anyway. I'm looking for an Alu frame.

Cheers Doug, Ahsat and Beer247 (you're kinda saying what i'm wanting to hear Beer).

still sounds to me like the Scout might have suited you better with a firmer shock pressure/setting Ahsat.
I'd heard the debonaire had a similar (or close anyway) spring curve to a coil shock. how true would you say this claim is Beer?

So purely out of curiosity, does anyone know the spitfire frame weight?

I haven't weighed mine but Keith said 3.5kg (7.7lbs) with the CCDBair, so 3.3kg (7.3lbs) with a CCDBinline.

I found that adjusting the geometry changes the feel quite a lot - I haven't tried the higher/steeper position but slacker/lower feels ridiculously stable when hitting faster & rougher trails whilst neutral is easier to chuck around and lets you get pedal strokes in sooner on corner exits.

I've been enjoying my hardtail a lot recently on our jumpy/twisty local trails and that's much taller and steeper (26" Soul with 140s) so I'll be trying the high/steep position when the Spitfire comes back out.

I'd heard the debonaire had a similar (or close anyway) spring curve to a coil shock. how true would you say this claim is Beer?

All i can say is the shock feels as good (if not better) than the CCDB air on the Rune.

Ive got it set up with 35% sag (when sitting). Seems to absorb most stuff without wallowing in its travel. Good support in the mid stroke which enables you to pop off/over things.

Its easy to forget that you only have 125mm of travel sometimes

Tracer 275? The vpp means its pretty firm and efficient feeling when climbing. I have the old 26tracer and I'm deeply tempted by the new one plus it looks amazing 🙂

Oooohh.... Thanks Beer. sounds very promising indeed.

I too have always liked to run 30-40% sag on every FS I've ever ridden no matter how short travel and like a set-up with good pop. for this reason, I'd always avoided air shocks completely and generally had all my coil shocks tuned to have a firmer midstroke. sounds like this could get pricy.. 🙂
I'm almost ready to overlook my huge dislike of the slightly bigger wheels here.

hold on.. You're not some sort of ultra advanced phishing bot out to scam me are you?

Here's my two pence worth after demoing the scout yesterday.

To replace my 26" bandit I was looking at process 134, solo, killi flyer but with the scout being my favoured option due to it's long, low and slack geometry which the others don't fully match.

I've liked the idea of the spitfire for a long time but I'm not wanting that much travel although im still intrigued given the awesome reviews of it's climbing and descending capability.

Anyways regarding the demo scout. It was 2x10, fox 32, 785 bars, 45mm stem, hr2 and ardent, arches. I tested it on xc and dh runs.

It felt stable on the ups and downs and particularly in switchbacks and berms. I noticed that I didn't really have to shift my weight on the ups and there was also good traction. Overall, it would easily replace my bandit and probably my mega in a lot of situations. I didn't feel that it was steep and nervous as said by the OP, quite the opposite in fact I would easily take this bike abroad even despite the shorter travel. The hr2 certainly gave confidence on the more slippy dh sections.

The only real negative was the amount of pedal strikes which I think can be combatted by swapping the cranks to 170mm rather than 175mm which was on the demo. This was unnerving at first and I ended up putting more air in the shock to compensate. But I'm fairly sure a shorter crank will sort this out.

sounds a lot like my experiences nsbikescore, can't wait for mine to arrive in about 4 weeks time!

Why the big wait?

I wanted a large limeade frame and the guys @ pedals only had a large in black coming in, so the next shipment is due about then. I liked the black and its much nicer in the flesh, but i was sold on the limeade first time i saw it 🙂

Mtbel, I have never been moar convinced of your love for teh endurooooozz!

The only real negative was the amount of pedal strikes which I think can be combatted by swapping the cranks to 170mm rather than 175mm which was on the demo. This was unnerving at first and I ended up putting more air in the shock to compensate. But I'm fairly sure a shorter crank will sort this out.

Yep, running mine with 170mm cranks - you still have to be carefull though!

I do still have reservations about the low bottom bracket beer247 particularly as my riding includes rocky climbs in the Peak District. I guess the trade off is better cornering... But there aren't any corners in the Peak District, Lolz!!

might even get round to fixing teh Enduroooo sled I already own.
not like I haven't had the bearing kit sat here ready to fit for almost a year. 😉

I know the Scout Geometry chart states a 330mm BB height. I'm already used to lower than that. is it actually lower than stated?

I know the Scout Geometry chart states a 330mm BB height. I'm already used to lower than that. is it actually lower than stated?

Not sure Mtbel, would have to get my tape measure out! I think ive seen it mentioned that its better to look at BB drop anyway as things like tyre size can affect the BB height?

Heres a pic of mine anyway!

[url= http://s16.postimg.org/n3habs24x/IMAG0183.jp g" target="_blank">http://s16.postimg.org/n3habs24x/IMAG0183.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

I'm 6ft 2 by the way and riding a large - i think an XL would have had me stretched out too much whilst seated (even with a 35mm stem)

You sound like someone that would benefit from a Evil Following:

[img] [/img]

Yes, it's carbon, but the likes of people that'll be riding it will give it a much harder time than you will - as it's designed more like a Mini-DH/Enduro bike than an XC lightweight racer.

I'd be snapping one up if I had the spare cash 🙂

Carbon & Evil, what could possibly go wrong...

And let's hope this ones got some decent rear tyre clearance this time round

[img] [/img]

Hmmmmmm.........

Clearance pictures here, acres of space around the 2.25 ardent on the bike at Core. http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/new-evil-bikes-29er/page/3

Cheers again Beer. looks a lot better in black. Are the stickers removable or are they lacquered over?
From looking at your pic and using the technically accurate method of placing a ruler over the centre of each wheel axle it does look to have about an inch of BB drop as listed. so nce and low but not crazily so compared to what I'm already used to.
I'm 5'11" and like low slack bikes but hate long bikes. I'm thinking even the medium might be slightly on the long side for me. def thinking about heading to Pedals at some point to find out. Still haven't ridden one single 650b shod bike I've liked the feel of yet. :'(

The clearance doesn't exactly inspire confidence above.

Skinny little tyre on a skinny little rim.

It's going to be useless by the time you put something decent on it, with a slightly wide rim.

But hey, it's an Evil, the least of your worries will be tyre clearance with their impressive reliability record 🙂

Are the stickers removable or are they lacquered over?

Graphics are not removable - they feel slighty raised but theres no discernable edge (to pick at..) so to speak.

I'm thinking even the medium might be slightly on the long side for me.

I'd try the medium, maybe start with a 50mm stem and if its too long try a 35/40mm stem.

know what you're saying but from the stack n reach figures the Med Scout is already an inch longer than my current short travel FS and my DH bike which are both as long as I'd ever want (these run 40mm and 45mm stems respectively) my every day hardtail is yet another inch shorter again (2" shorter than the scout) again this has a 40mm stem. I'm extremely fussy and know what I like so will know very quickly whether the Medium size suits what I'm after or not.

Pity about the stickers but I think I could live with them.

Those stickers are subltey awesome 🙂

An extra inch on the TT wont take long to get used to at all, either. So win win.

lolz, mtbel isn't wired to take an extra inch!

Picking up a large Spitfire in Mint on Friday...can't wait!

Picking up a large Spitfire in Mint on Friday...can't wait!

I'm on the edge of ordering one! Will take a month to get the bits together though and will run it at existing 26" wheels for now.

In just transferring all my fsr bits over. Getting the 650b drop outs and running 26" until the wheel and Lyriks die.

Sadly my aged groupset, reverb and forks wont fit! Not my cheapest frame decision!

Why won't the group set and forks fit? All my 9sp stuff swapped over with just a change of front much.

Forks are straight steerer 140 mm. Know I could get an adapter but might just splash out and do the job properly and ride it with the correct length forks (looking at dual position Pikes). I run 3 x 10 Shimano - will only take 3* SRAM. Going to have to swap to 2 x 10.

I run 3 x 10 Shimano - will only take 3* SRAM. Going to have to swap to 2 x 10

Seriously? I run a 3x 9sp on my phantom and that should be the same......

I also found that dual position pikes didn't perform as well. Apparently the damping is different. Also the bb is already very low on the spitfire in 26. Would having dual position pikes cause more problems than you think it solves?

Just going through the same process for a similar bike so be watching this thread with interest: thinking Spitfire, Aeris, Trance 27.5...I'm sure any one of the three would make a great bike but weight is important to me so Trance is edging it at 6.2lb for frame & shock. I've been quoted 3.1kg/6.8lb without shock for the Aeris and Spitfire is heavier again (Love the mint coloured frame though)

Have the Pike 160 dual pos, just need the frame to go with it!

You could run 3x10 Shimano everything except the front mech - use SRAM for that.