Demo full power or lightweight eMTB first?

Probably the lightweight one first.

Try to take them both somewhere quite technical bot up and down so you get a good idea of their different capabilities and drawbacks where they will be most exposed

Full powe first, I'd say.

See what the full ebike experience is about, then see if you are happy with the less power, but lighter weight combo.

If you go low then high, you'll probably just get hooked on the power

I'd go lightweight first personally. I think your judgement will be clouded otherwise.

Goin from a full power bike to a restricted power bike is just going to make the lightweight one feel dead by comparison.

I can ride (nearly) all day in level 1 (Eco) with a hint of level 2 (Trail).

If I start off in boost however, anything less feels like there isn't enough power when I know that actually, there's plenty.

You just get used to going faster with less effort and anything with less assistance makes the bike feel underpowered.

I think starting with the lightweight bike will give you a good feel for how it works. It should feel like a mountain bike with a bit of assistance. Then jumping into a full power bike will give you an idea of what the extra power feels like.

A friend of mine has just got a full power ebike. We tried to weigh it on the park scales but it just said eeeee (error) as it was so heavy.

Amazing bit of kit and expensive but be prepared for some chunk. Try not to ride somewhere with gates.

Previously he had a specialized lightweight ebike that was around £12000. That just felt like a heavy normal bike a and was really impressive, but it should be for the money.

His first impressions are the lightweight bike was nicer to ride technical trails and easier to lift over gates but the new heavy ebike is just far more fun. He doesn't ride for fitness, just for fun.

I preferred him on the specialized as I could keep up with him on most parts on my non ebike. I'm not looking forward to riding with him on his new motorbike and I need to resist trying it as I bet its really good fun and addictive.

A friend of mine has just got a full power ebike. We tried to weigh it on the park scales but it just said eeeee (error) as it was so heavy.

Amazing bit of kit and expensive but be prepared for some chunk. Try not to ride somewhere with gates unless they open, your very strong or have a friend with you.

Previously he had a specialized lightweight ebike that was around £12000. That just felt like a heavy normal bike and was really impressive, but it should be for the money.

His first impressions are the lightweight bike was nicer to ride technical trails and easier to lift over gates but the new heavy ebike is just far more fun. He doesn't ride for fitness, just for fun.

I preferred him on the specialized as I could keep up with him on most parts on my non ebike. I'm not looking forward to riding with him on his new motorbike and I need to resist trying it as I bet its really good fun and addictive.

I don't own an ebike but having played on a couple my thoughts are once you've ridden a new powerful ebike, it must be hard to reject it for a less power.

Just remember:  Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely 🤣

If you ride with friends who have full fat ebikes then when you ride the half-fat version ride with a mate who has one.

Either they will need to rein it in a little or the half fat will probably be working hard to match them. Just someting to think about.

bikesandboots
If you can get to the Quantocks you're welcome to try my Orbea Rise if you want, it's a Large though . Let me know if that works for you.

If you ride with friends who have full fat ebikes then when you ride the half-fat version ride with a mate who has one.

Either they will need to rein it in a little or the half fat will probably be working hard to match them. Just someting to think about

It depends how people are using them.

95% of the time on my FF I'm in eco @ 20% assistance and on a climb will spin away in the lowest gear, just as I would on an traditional bike. My mate, who isn't an experienced mtb'er sticks it in a higher gear on turbo and shoots off up the hill.

I'll use trail and turbo occasionally in short blasts to get me up somewhere I might be struggling. On a normal climbing section a really fit rider would probably keep up, or even go faster than me, so someone on a half day would be fine. Guessing groups will tend to power up stuff though

I’d suggest as above, I’d test the light weight option, after your manual bike. Too easy to be sucked in by the FF ‘power’ & ignore how the bike rides overall. As you don’t ride with other FF riders, you’ve no need to buy FF, unless you like them

I prefer full power. It had a greater range of uses for me. Lightweight ones felt too close to riding my acoustic pivot firebird

This relevant to my interests. My mate is demoing one down at GT in a couple of weeks and I'm tagging along to keep him company. Tried to get him to consider lightweight options, but there wasn't a hope in Hell that he wasn't going for a full bhuna. Therefore, I just hired the biggest, silliest thing they had for a laugh. Might turn up drunk too...

Interesting. From a simple count so far, 1 for full power first, and 3 for lightweight first. Appreciate the other input too however I've read many threads already about the pros and cons of each.

So far I'm more convinced by the logic for lightweight first.

Try to take them both somewhere quite technical bot up and down so you get a good idea of their different capabilities and drawbacks where they will be most exposed

Noted. Especially as hire options I've found so far are all trail centres - not sure if you're allowed to take them out of there.

If you can get to the Quantocks you’re welcome to try my Orbea Rise if you want, it’s a Large though . Let me know if that works for you.

Thanks for the offer, but it's a long way from me.

Like STR and Jedi said. Try full fat first.

Jedi (and indeed most posters) didn't say anything about which to try first.

I would test a lightweight first to see if you think there's enough power for you.

I have a FF and when riding with mates on normal bikes I put it on eco although I've been riding my p7 more these days and saving the ebike for exploring around local area for new trails.

I've joined an ebike group on Facebook and on the first ride with them I had to up the power to tour as I was struggling to keep up in eco as they were riding in turbo or emtb modes.

It all depends on what you want from it. Less power but light enough to lift over gates or loads of power but heavy.

Do you ride solo or with mates as that will also be a factor.

Full fat first, see what it's all about before you get disappointed with the other one 😂

I've long been curious by e-bikes and the half fats vs full fats, I actually demo'd two different full fats few weekends back. Both felt heavy to man handle but when rolling on the trails couldnt tell, flew up hills, thing that surprised me was how often could hit the 15mph limiter when sprinting into a trail and then you could tell you were pedalling something heavier.

I'd say go full fat and see how you get on, if you dont notice any issues, stick with full fat. If you notice something like weight, handling or pedalling then look to try the half fat.

I tried a full fat one for a day (hired it, and could ride my local trails) It was a Spesh Kenevo. It was so much fun, that I vowed never to ride one again until I'm going to buy it.

Try the half fat ebike first, it'll feel amazing compared to a normal bike.

Then try the full fat - it'll feel amazing compared to the half fat going up hills, but a bit of a lump if you try and hop it about on the trail, or lift over gates/stiles etc, or when the speed limit is hit..

I've got both full fat and half fat - and I tend to predominantly ride the half fat because I prefer a lighter bike with less power over the full power but heavy thing, there is a subtle difference between them.

I'll take a the full fat if everyone else is going to be on a full fat e bike and I know they will be turboing everywhere, otherwise its the half fat bike for everything.

by the way, not all half fat ebikes are created equal - I think the power tends to range from 350w (orbea rise, fazua 60 etc) to 240w (specialized sl bikes), so there is quite a spread in power. You may find the specialized sl too weak, but the motor in the rise ok, or maybe the SL will be just fine for you. I guess the point is, just because you try one half fat bike, it doesnt mean they're all like that.

Interesting. From a simple count so far, 1 for full power first, and 3 for lightweight first. Appreciate the other input too however I’ve read many threads already about the pros and cons of each.

I'm not sure that matters as much as

When I’ve done demos before I’ve always found it more useful on trails I’m already familiar with and had ridden recently on my own bike, so I could focus just on the bike during the demo. So I’ll be heading somewhere where I can try both types, for a few days, and taking my own bike too.

A certain fraction of eBike value is stuff you'd do you wouldn't otherwise. (that fraction is up to you)
That can be lots from going out by yourself when you'd otherwise not to exploring different places to impossible climbs or doing jumps on the uphills.. they ALSO make going up hills easier.

I personally think before you decide you want to explore the "other" .. and which parts of those (and others I didn't discover) are the extra for you.

ALSO the difference mainly depends what YOU weigh....

As it happens I did 2 group rides yesterday.... early morning I did a group ride and took the real bike HT... then when they went home had a couple of beers and met a e-Mate and spanked out 30 odd miles and trails all over the place and riding up things you couldn't push up till his battery died (and the dog was getting tired)

My Vitus is max 60nm-1 but I weigh sod all ... so it keeps pace with a bit of extra effort with the 85nm-1 my heavier mate was riding... gets up the same climbs (in mid setting it will climb till it loops out or losing grip) and at my weight although I can feel the difference on a more powerful motor it's not something affects the ride if the bikes are limited to 15mph... (I can notice it more above say 12mph on a steep climb compared to the 85 ones)

We have another mate who's a big bloke though and he really struggles on his Orbea (whatever that gives) with the full fat bikes... even though he's not that unfit and struggles less if we are all out on real bikes the 60nm or whatever it gives just doesn't compensate for his XL size.

I guess what I mean is on the FF the hills are what you want them to be from near zero effort to turn off the motor altogether.

Most stuff now is tuneable so you can set the settings as you like... my mate only uses the mid setting .. another mate same bike like playing with settings... I just have lowest/middle of middle and highest set...

Obviously bike weight is another thing... I found it took a while to get confident on jumps, specifically the worry you'd flick it and it will just keep going... another mate has an absolute monster Spez with 740 battery and he (despite being even older than me) was whipping it about first ride...

Its a trade off.

Lightweight - less power but more agile.
Full fat - more grunt less agile.

What kind of riding do you prefer?...

At Glentress (mentioned above) you can hire both FF and SL's, also in Inners (for Inners & Golfie).

I bought an SL after demo/borrowing both a FF and an Orbea Rise from local shops, rode on the trails I ride every week. I then hired an SL from Inners and rode there (which I also do most weeks).

Rode yesterday with a pal who's got an FF. I just had to ride in a higher power than I would when on my own, interesting we both used the same percentage of battery but in power terms I used half as much (my battery is 320W+160W extender and he's got a 900W battery). We did +5000ft and 20 miles of the Golfie.

Testing order:
1 Orbea Rise (60NM)
2 Cube Stereo (85NM)
3 Kenevo SL (35NM)

A certain fraction of eBike value is stuff you’d do you wouldn’t otherwise. (that fraction is up to you)
That can be lots from going out by yourself when you’d otherwise not to exploring different places to impossible climbs or doing jumps on the uphills.. they ALSO make going up hills easier.

I personally think before you decide you want to explore the “other” .. and which parts of those (and others I didn’t discover) are the extra for you.

Good point, needs a think. The only things I had my eyes on so far was avoiding being knackered after big climbs causing poor riding on the desecents (e.g. do more than 2 full laps of Glentress red/black in a day), and being able to ride rather than push moderately steep climbs on rocky terrain (e.g. the climb after Seatoller on the Borrowdale Bash). However I do have a bit of an ambition to get fitter before I allow myself to get an eMTB.

What kind of riding do you prefer?…

Pretty much this - https://www.youtube.com/@TrailFinder/videos . I do love big mountains but that'd be mostly hike a bike anyway, which I don't enjoy, and I don't live in Scotland anyway, neither do I have the skills or bravery.

ALSO the difference mainly depends what YOU weigh….

Not much and I'm not strong either. So as well as the power angle, I need to think about how much I can boss the bike around, and handle it on foot over unrideable obstacles.

@bikesandboots, i am in exactly the same place as you. so we did the Whinlatter demo day a few weeks ago. The advice we were given was to try the lightweight (hahahaha) half fat ebike first, which was the Orbea Rise. it was quite nice, but the demo bike didnt have the display, so i didn't know how much power I had left. It was ok, bit more pedalling than the full fat ebikes but the "assist" was noticable.
Next was a cube "full fat" with ABs!! i found a big difference in the two bikes, but the weight funnily enough, was not noticeable. Less battery range obviously, but far easier to use than the e-light Orbea.
We then tried the new Yeti ebike....and wow, just amazing. Better ride, but not necessarily due to its e capability, more to do with the suspension set up (but it was a £12k bike)
Left the day with a good idea that I don't want a half fat ebike. Trying to get a demo on a Scott eGenius and a Trek rail as i think one of those two would be ok for my needs, but what I have learned is that set up and suspension is still just as important as a "normal bike"
i ride a fully rigid fat bike, in the lakes, so I am often out for Big Days. I can normally do a full lap of Whinlatter North and South ok, but am beat up afterwards. we did 3 laps of North and South during the day and i was fine at the end. No way i could do 3 full laps of Whinlatter North and South on my current bike.

I think its not as simple as as demo full or lightweight.

Budget has a massive impact as tbh any 'lightweight' emtb less than £7k will weigh nearly as much as any equivalent priced full fat for it to make no difference. All the lightweigh emtbs are £10k + most of them are nearer 22-24kg which is only just below full fat

Are you going to be doing hike a bike type rides, stuff that requires carrying etc, and how do you carry your bike ie on a roof rack, inside a car etc.?

OP, sounds like a lightweight emtb would be best..

Budget has a massive impact as tbh any ‘lightweight’ emtb less than £7k will weigh nearly as much as any equivalent priced full fat for it to make no difference. All the lightweigh emtbs are £10k + most of them are nearer 22-24kg which is only just below full fat

S4 was sub 19kg with pedals on my Park scales - here for less than £7k.

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/turbo-kenevo-sl-expert/p/199106?color=318002-199106&searchText=98021-3604&gclid=Cj0KCQjwla-hBhD7ARIsAM9tQKt3FeAj-oNeD4s3n3BCSWGMFVpJ2Y_1p_y8-cPqD_zCYwBDp3Q8I3IaAjyHEALw_wcB

any ‘lightweight’ emtb less than £7k will weigh nearly as much as any equivalent priced full fat for it to make no difference. All the lightweigh emtbs are £10k + most of them are nearer 22-24kg which is only just below full fat

not really....but its hard to generalise as everything is different.

The bottom of the range trek fuel exe is 19.9kg for £5750 - I wouldnt advise buying the bottom of the range model because the components are rubbish (unless you're going to upgrade the bits - as I did), but its not as heavy as you make out, same goes for kenevo sl, levo sl , the lower end carbon fibre rises , they're all pretty light when compared to a full fat bike of the same/similar price.

I think some of the cheaper alu orbea rises are around 21kg - yes you can find a full fat bike just a bit heavier than this, but the list price for a full fat bike this light is £10k+.

Most of the low power bikes range from 17kg-20kg, on a slidingscale depending on what you spend

most of the full fats range from 22kg -26kg - same sliding spending scale as the lightweights

I thin the new transition light ebike is a bit of an exception , its (relatively) heavy and expensive

bikesandboots

Good point, needs a think. The only things I had my eyes on so far was avoiding being knackered after big climbs causing poor riding on the desecents (e.g. do more than 2 full laps of Glentress red/black in a day), and being able to ride rather than push moderately steep climbs on rocky terrain (e.g. the climb after Seatoller on the Borrowdale Bash). However I do have a bit of an ambition to get fitter before I allow myself to get an eMTB.

Yeah have a think but also have a go.... I got one due to a bad knee and my brother having an unused one but in my head it was something not to knacker my knee more and equally be knackered on big climbs.
I'd seen the adverts for "uphill flow" and stuff and thought it was just marketing bollox... but I find it really good fun way beyond my expectations.

I'm 70kg and I find the 60nm-1 Shimano E7000 gets me up anything a more powerful motor would... stuff you'd be on hands and knees walking (at least wearing MTB shoes on loamy stuff) however BEFORE I bought it I tried a mates EP8 that does I think 85nm ?? and he set the "profile" up to 60nm .. at my weight its grip and balance give out first... if I do it on the middle setting I'll be more out of puff...
I went for the E7000 because the whole bike cost me £3000 though...

I'm not particularly fit in a "going to a gym sense" or "doing training" - I do ride a lot though (at least 3-4 times a week) and "bike fit" and ride the eMTB maybe 50% of the time

I did 2 rides Sunday... a group ride on my real bike HT from really early till lunch then a mate turned up on his EMTB and we did another ride on eMTB (then his battery died so I had a couple of beers then and I did some extra miles on my HT for an hour or so to make sure I was under the limit before driving)

I do love big mountains but that’d be mostly hike a bike anyway, which I don’t enjoy, and I don’t live in Scotland anyway

Most of the stuff round the Dales/Lakes you can always do a different route you might not have considered without the eMTB (because of the effort as its longer or lots of up/down)... the odd fence and stile is unavoidable but long hike a bike usually is avoidable if you go the "long way round"

As I started by saying, I think you need to have a go on both BUT really try the stuff that's on top of the "easier up hills" and see how it works for you. There is a bit of skill on e-climbs and have the saddle about 70% up to weight the rear wheel but you'll get it real quick. I loaned a mate mine for a "impossible climb" and he did it first go (and on my 60nm and he's 90kg) he had a HUGE grin at the top (and still out of breath) when I laboured up the normal route on his bike.

I loaned a mate mine for a “impossible climb” and he did it first go (and on my 60nm and he’s 90kg) he had a HUGE grin at the top (and still out of breath) when I laboured up the normal route on his bike.

Black Rocks?

Black Rocks?

nah just a local alternative route... (near BkB in S Hills) but you can't walk up it in 5 tens if its damp... and the eMTB gets up easily if you keep the front down and grip.

S4 was sub 19kg with pedals on my Park scales – here for less than £7k.

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/turbo-kenevo-sl-expert/p/199106?color=318002-199106&searchText=98021-3604&gclid=Cj0KCQjwla-hBhD7ARIsAM9tQKt3FeAj-oNeD4s3n3BCSWGMFVpJ2Y_1p_y8-cPqD_zCYwBDp3Q8I3IaAjyHEALw_wcB/blockquote >

With a shock that grenades itself if you look at it funny and tracing paper thin tyres.

I don’t think I know anyone with a real world KSL thats sub 20kg with a decent shock (coil) and tyres on it. Which is about 2kg less that quite a few full fat bikes of the same price (not discounted).

 

I think its not as simple as as demo full or lightweight.

Budget has a massive impact as tbh any ‘lightweight’ emtb less than £7k will weigh nearly as much as any equivalent priced full fat for it to make no difference.

Interesting point, if a bit overstated. Very early stage now. Thought to go demo-first rather than convincing myself upfront about which type I want by reading articles and forums. But that's kinda happening now anyway with the course this thread has taken!

Are you going to be doing hike a bike type rides, stuff that requires carrying etc, and how do you carry your bike ie on a roof rack, inside a car etc.?

I'm not strong enough to hike a normal bike let alone any type of eMTB, so no. I'd like to be able to lift it over gates and stiles, drag it up short awkward bits of terrain, but this is all negotiable. Bike on its side in car with front wheel off - I expect with any eMTB I'd need to make some kind of mini-trolley to aid sliding it in.

I wouldnt advise buying the bottom of the range model because the components are rubbish

I'm quite particular so would expect to swap out perhaps at least the wheels and brakes.

Demo a Rise.

Interesting point, if a bit overstated. Very early stage now. Thought to go demo-first rather than convincing myself upfront about which type I want by reading articles and forums. But that’s kinda happening now anyway with the course this thread has taken!

I can't remember what mine weighs... the only reason I know is when I've been calculating spring weight otherwise its just heavy to lift .. doesn't feel heavy when riding. I think you're spot on and only riding will tell.

I’m quite particular so would expect to swap out perhaps at least the wheels and brakes.

Unless the components are what you'd choose then there is little difference between base models and ££££ ones.

I bought the cheapest (£3000) base model .. swapped wheels, brakes (came with nasty SRAM) and damper (RC2) in the fork before riding and put a decent shock on within a week (X2 - I had it anyway but a few rides before I got round to it) took out the airspring in the forks last weekend and replaced with a coil and put a 220 rotor on and I swapped the supplied 150mm dropper for a 170mm.
Other than having the weaker (60nm) motor I'd have ripped the forks, shock and shock off the top model (and had mine come with the 6210 brakes I'd have left them but it was a 50/50) -

One mate bought a YT Core 2... because it had more maintainable suspension than the higher up models AND because he's ridden the Zeb vs 38's and preferred the Zeb.. so he'd have taken the supplied 38's off to put on something he can service at home, swapped the damper and he stuck a coil conversion in. He's also changed a lot of other components so

Another mate bought a Core 4 with Factory 38's and whatever.. he's swapped to a coil anyway at the back and now wants to change his 38's for the Zeb's came on the Core 2... I think the only thing that isn't a choice difference is the Carbon rear on the Core 4 over the Core 2... if you pick either up I doubt anyone could tell the difference
(once you add a motor and battery the difference between a carbon and alloy frame for the same bike is pretty marginal)

I'd say look at the spec has the most on you'd want to keep on in whatever model you want to buy.
.. and as above try them.