[Closed] Cycling has been ruined by carbon and strava (or so says the Guardian)

Well you are never going to get a strava segment unless you are on a carbon 29er....or an ebike

If he lives in london I'm not sure what he expected?

Is it wrong that I've never used Strava ever?

Can't we have anything where people can just get on and do things their way rather than looking enviously around them worrying about everyone else?

Your brand of cycling isn't the standard. Your enjoyment of what you do shouldn't be diminished by others doing theirs differently.

Can't we have anything where people can just get on and do things their way rather than looking enviously around them worrying about everyone else?

Sums up Strava perfectly.

Your enjoyment of what you do shouldn't be diminished by others doing theirs differently.

From the article:

"I should be able to just let these people get on with it and live and let live, or even just take joy in the fact that there are so many more people who love cycling in any way they like.

But I can’t, and I have my reasons. First, I don’t like being looked down on. I don’t like being characterised as less of a cyclist because I can’t be arsed with sportives and would rather get lost than go hard.

Second, I think it pollutes the rest of the culture. This pernicious strand of macho sport orthodoxy is creeping into all parts of cycling. It’s starting to be the norm. Bike shops are geared towards it, bike blogs are geared towards it, conversations around cycling are geared towards it. You mention you like cycling, now that comes with an expectation that you are a certain type of person; alpha male, serious, competitive, buyer of bikes, regurgitator of facts."

I think either he wants people to look at him how they used to when he mentions that he's a cyclist - i.e. treat him like an oddball rather than a sports fanatic - or possibly he's got pinned down one too many times at a party by a cycle bore.

I'd imagine there are other places to ride

sums up [s]strava[/s] London perfectly

FTFY

Some may enjoy the bling nature of shiny stuff or beating their mates by half a second but they can be quite irritating and do miss so much. There are still many of us happy to pootle along on an old comfy bike, upright enough to enjoy the view and breathing gently enough not to taste blood.

Choose cake, not strava.

He's looking in the wrong place...seem to be plenty of explorers on here?. And fortunately I think the invention of the ebike might have killed Strava. I think someone once said "Golf, a good walk spoilt"...."Strava, a good ride spoilt".

Sums up (how sone people use ) Strava perfectly

Bores exist in all forms, from those who bang on about their strava times, to those who complain about "how it used to be"

Just buy a gravel bike and get off the roads - or ride a single speed

Sounds more like he's struggling to put a positive article out and is using his own insecurities to make money

Sounds like a London thing to me. Particularly puts me in mind of certain large London clubs you used to see in Richmond Park. Here in Yorkshire there is that, you can SMASH it on the Leeds chaingang with the local Strava heros or you can join a load of oldies for a tootle to Bolton Abbey. I don't think the same culture has taken over completely up here...

I don't think the same culture has taken over completely up here...

This is why we need independence.

I use Strava as a cycling diary and like the heatmap function. I also like seeing what my pals are up to. He's just making sweeping generalizations to fill column inches.

I'm also definitely an explorer.

I used to ride in a plaid shirt, circa 1990 #truefact .

Now I ride carbon and am occasionally quite 'aggressive' (when no one else's around) #sadness

^opusone...here, here. Freedom!!!

I don't think the same culture has taken over completely up here...

I can certainly agree with many of the sentiments in this article. You can still forge your own groove in cycling though, but I get that cycling 'society' has changed greatly. I'm just glad he mentioned Lael Wilcox a couple of times. I've been following her exploits (and her partner Nick on gypsybytrade)for a while and I like her style a lot: she's basically an elite hobo.

But, this kind of rant against the corporatisation and homogenisation of a particular activity/art/whatever, is a well trodden trait. It is what Raymond Williams called the 'common human propensity to use the past as a stick with which to beat the present'. It's a classic way of holding up the values of the past (whether they are your values, or a shared group value), and using them to judge an inevitably failing present. It's common in environmentalist debates, but i'm sure in many other countless cultral and social fields. The main issue with this kind of thinking is that it gives undue value to the past, and also places that value in an arbitrary moment (X years ago...) that blindly ignores the failings of that time, whilst ignoring/glossing over the positives of the present.

Some may enjoy the bling nature of shiny stuff or beating their mates by half a second but they can be quite irritating and do miss so much. There are still many of us happy to pootle along on an old comfy bike, upright enough to enjoy the view and breathing gently enough not to taste blood.

You can have both, you know, sometimes even on the same ride.

Interesting article - and I can see where he is coming from..
I see the full spectrum where I live (Bromley) from Chaingangs of badly behaved middle-aged men shouting at each other to weathered pensioners on ancient steel bikes enjoying the sun outside a cake shop.

I guess the change in cycling was inevitable - the sales of mega-money carbon roadbikes must have gone crazy if what I've seen around here is a good barometer.

I use Strava to log my rides (more out of personal interest in my fitness - I only follow a few people) and do one or two Sportives per year (with friends)
The only thing the badly behaved MAMILs have proved to me is that I don't want to join a club at the moment - as I don't want to be associated with these people.

New user to strava here.....Im liking it so far as its motivating me to ride more.
Im using it purely as a tool to get myself fitter....getting home after a ride and seeing that ive climbed a hill/done a route faster than last time makes me feel better.

Before strava literally NOBODY worried about how fast they were going. Except road racers and sportive cyclists and audaxers and MTBO people and time traillists and track cyclists and xc racers and downhillers..................

The only thing the badly behaved MAMILs have proved to me is that I don't want to join a club at the moment - as I don't want to be associated with these people.

I got "boxed in" by some mamils from the local roadie club recently (I didn't know what boxing in was until I described what had happened to someone in the know) because I'd had the gall to pass them on an uphill section and was then freewheeling on the descent. Really soured me to the whole roadie thing.

Before strava literally NOBODY worried about how fast they were going.

Strava has turned the world into a racetrack. Even when it's stupid to be racing.

and MTBO people and time traillists and track cyclists and xc racers and downhillers..................

And people who were late for work/tea/when they told their mum they'd be home...

edit.

Strava has turned the world into a racetrack. Even when it's stupid to be racing.

I spent most of my teenage years racing my mates in places it was definately stupid to be racing. Wondering if canti brakes would stop you prior to the fence and the bottom was part of the fun 😆
Amazingly, I dont think one mobile app has completely changed human nature

From the article

They’re less and less likely to talk about the joy of cycling

But what if the people he dislikes get joy from Strava, sportives and carbon bikes?

A classic case of "it doesn't fit with my world view ergo it's wrong"

I know where he's coming from.
In the UK we MUST DO IT CORRECTLY... i.e. Buy the 'best' bike, wear the correct gear, travel miles to do an organised ride or to ride a certain place, stop at the right cafe, record it all in pictures and via satellites etc etc...
But ask the vast majority of cyclists if they go shopping on a bike and they look at you like you're speaking Swahili, they just don't get it.
We rode 45-50 miles in 2 days over the weekend wearing no specific cycling gear at all, in jeans, on the flat, at 10mph, for no other reason than to be outside and it was lovely.

Strava has turned the world into a racetrack. Even when it's stupid to be racing.

Back before strava and kids and wives me and my mates used to go out 3/4 times a week and race each other into the ground, first to the next sign, first up this hill, first to bottom of the hill, you know TRAINING, we didn't even race that much. And you know what? Sometimes we stopped to look at the view or have a cake or something. Eeeeeeh , them were the days.

Strava has turned the world into a racetrack. Even when it's stupid to be racing.

That's a problem that goes beyond being a value judgement - i.e. it's not bad just because it doesn't fit with what I like - because it seems to make (some) people behave like dickheads. That in turn gives the whole (sub)culture of cycling a bad name.

Is this a road thing? I can't say I've noticed this in the MTB world, if anything it is going more in the 'just ride' direction (e.g. compared to the MBUK years), even considering enduro fluro.

London's what you make of it.

There's plenty of more relaxed clubs that are all about exploring.

E.g.
http://www.centrallondonctc.org.uk/rides
http://www.pollardshillcyclists.org.uk/links.html

The Crystal Palace route is well known as a local roadie training route, so you'd expect there to be lots of people going as fast as they can out there.

It's as much or more to do with aspiration lifestyle marketing as a bike computer for your phone.

Someone should go back in time and kill wiggo, that'd sort it.

Is this a road thing?

More of a road thing, I reckon, although I can be a massive gear bore.

must be a tight lycra thing. agree with llama, don't see this with any of my MTB friends.

Is it wrong that I've never used Strava ever?

Nor me, Mainly cos I'd be depressed about the very slow times 😀

My neighbour complains that he posts a time and almost immeadiately it's beaten. I suggested that he didn't use Strava. He looked at me like I'd taken a dump on his lawn 😛

No carbon on my bikes either, not knowingly anyway.

Aluminium, you know it makes sense...........

I should be able to just let these people get on with it and live and let live, or even just take joy in the fact that there are so many more people who love cycling in any way they like.

But I can’t, and I have my reasons. First, I don’t like being looked down on. I don’t like being characterised as less of a cyclist because I can’t be arsed with sportives and would rather get lost than go hard.

I think he has mental health issues and/or it's just click bait. It's pretty sad that he seems to have taken so much of his perceived identity from being a 'cyclist' but now he doesn't like what that implies any more. Just ride your ****ing bike and ignore all the stuff you don't like.

Aluminium, you know it makes sense...........

Steel. Puts a smile on my bum.

Think whinging cycling journalists in the mainstream press do more damage to the image of cyclists than Strava. Hardly ever saw this sort of "got out of bed the wrong side and thought I'd write a column about it" thing in the mainstream press ten years ago 🙄

Dunno about that article but there's some good writing on this thread, I'm sat on the loo chuckling.

'Chuckling'...is that what they call it these days!! 😯

Choose cake, not strava.

"Before strava literally NOBODY worried about how fast they were going. Except road racers and sportive cyclists and audaxers and MTBO people and time traillists and track cyclists and xc racers and downhillers.................."

This is spot on. We've always talked about speed although before Strava it was just average speed for rides ("evens" is as old an aim as cycling) just we can compartmentalise is for segments now.

I've been road racing / cycling since the early nineties and frankly I love how popular road cycling has become

I think [s]he has mental health issues and/or[/s] it's just click bait.

FTFY

Grum plus lots.
He comes across as a sad,needy whinger.

I don’t like being looked down on. I don’t like being characterised as less of a cyclist

As an old duffer who was a roadie back when it was as fashionable as leprosy I can kind of see where he's coming from. Chaingangs used to be for training and how fast you were was measured by the number of points on your license or your TT times. If you went out on a club run you were expected to ride as a group and respect the other riders, not burn them off at every opportunity. There's now a new generation who do everything [i]except [/i]race and the chaingang has become an end in itself and the place where prove your speed.

Next thing you know I'll be complaining about how the music at gigs is too loud these days and they can't even play their instruments properly 🙂

1) He's overthinking it
2) He cares about what other people think too much
3) Cycling hasn't changed that much in 10 years

4) he should get out of London more often.

Honestly it's one of those crap articles where you could swap cycling for football/golf/motorbikes/masturbation etc.

Here in Yorkshire there is that, you can SMASH it on the Leeds chaingang with the local Strava heros or you can join a load of oldies for a tootle to Bolton Abbey.

?

I know plenty of clubs/groups in London that provide the smash & the bimble. I could probably reel off half a dozen..

The writer sounds rather whiny to me!

Honestly it's one of those crap articles where you could swap cycling for football/golf/motorbikes/masturbation etc.

You could have written this some 10 or 15 years ago about running and the massive surge in popularity (though maybe without the Strava bit) along with the marketing, fashions, technology, etc.

We're only some 40 miles west of that there London and most of the riders I know and see out and about are most definitely bimblers not racers.

Sounds like a slightly entertaining whinge. But it's not difficult to escape that scene. Even if you're in London or the SE.

Anyone for audax?

But it's not difficult to escape that scene.

Most of my Strava rides are done on a 23kg bike with a basket on the front.

this guy nails it, for me, in the comments section.....

Having ridden bikes for as long as I can remember, never owned a car, commute everyday whether it be sunny or snowing, I'm happy that cycling is normal for more and more people. It pleases me greatly that I see so many more people on bikes than there were just a few years ago. It occasionally makes me wince when I seen them riding with their saddles far too low or their arse hanging out of ill-fitting clothes but generally I feel vindicated for all those times I've stated the benefits of riding. Now people are seemingly understanding that there are more ways to get around than in cars. I still get the wonder of being lost and found and finding places I've never knew existed. I also love ragging myself up big road climbs or hanging on for dear life down steep mountain bike trails. I love collecting data and finding out more about my body and riding styles, plotting new routes. I love the nerdiness of bike culture, the benefits and problems of new standards and materials. It is a great time to ride bikes. You can get whatever you want out of cycling or, like you seem to be doing, you can suck on lemons and whine about the pure old days.

People are less and less likely to talk about experiences, the things the’ve seen, the places they’ve been, the fun and epic hardship they’ve experienced.

He obviously needs a fat bike.

I think if your enjoyment of cycling is so easily ruined, you possibly didn't like it that much in the first place.

To paraphrase....hell is other cyclists...

"I used to think of cycling as quirky and different, which defined me, but when other people started doing it, I lost interest"

So yes I've come across the Sportive/Strava attitude, more people saying they're into cycling and effusing about their carbon road bike
then I say I'm an MTB'er...
Or I mention a recent Pro Race (e.g. Wasn't Hayman magnificent at Roubaix)...

And they go a bit blank or maybe mention they're doing a mini-Triathlon and my wife gives me that look as I manage my expression but she knows in my head I don't consider triathlete's 'real cyclists'.
😀

Amusing to read that at a time when touring and bike travel is seeing interest at a level I've not known in 20 plus years. Polar opposite to strava and carbon and not been more accessible for a long time.

"Anyone who's got into cycling since I did is wrong"

I race on the road, on the track, CX, XC and TT. I don't use Strava, I can see how it can fun though. I've got a lot of bikes to look after - mine, plus both my kids race on and off road - so I don't have loads of money to spend on an individual bike.

Most of my stuff's second hand, I do nearly all my own spannering (I like that though) and my bikes are at the bargain end of things, so I'll admit to finding a natural temptation to look down my nose at people like my dentist, who I'm guessing is a post-Sky/Wiggins type mad enthusiast with a jaw-droppingly beautiful bike and matching Rapha wardrobe who goes on endlessly about Strava segements (my teeth might be falling apart, I'd never know) but would never in a million years go near a race.

I try and stop myself indulging in this simple snobbery though - I might be miles faster than him but there's loads of people miles faster than me, and he's no doubt richer than I am so can spend a lot more on cycling equipment, but that's OK because I don't have to spend all day looking in peoples' disgusting mouths - and remind myself that it's guys like that (and it is nearly always guys) that keep a healthy second hand market afloat, and also drive down the cost of kit generally. My LBS currently has a TdF team bike (albeit with junk wheels) available for £1300. Unreal. Pre-Sky/Wiggins (and I don't like singling them out like that, but you know what I mean) that would have been about six grand.

Take the rough with the smooth, I say. My boss is a newbie cycling fan. I can spend a couple of hours training in the morning, arrive in work halfway through the morning and just say I was training and it's fine. Upsides to cycling's new audience.

Tosh!

Strava isn't everyone's cup of tea. I don't know anyone who does it, not everyone as a carbon bells and whistle bike.

Me thinks the chap is just jumping on a tired old bandwagon 🙄

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be!

The whole article is just full of conservative confirmation bias IMO... I'm an ex SE London rider and the idea that SE London riders are all unfriendly, Strava-obsessed 'non-proper' cyclists is just a construct in the writer's head, in my deep experience.

It's full of the same kind of negative stereotyping and sweeping generalisations as your average newspaper article going on about RLJing and 'lycra louts'

Funnily enough, the club I've been riding with in Buckinghamshire over the last few weeks since I moved from London are less friendly and more likely to disappear off the front, unannounced because 'it's a segment' than either of the two SE London clubs I rode with... If anything, the London clubs go out of their way to be inclusive and friendly - to counter all the prejudice they have to deal with... (incl some of the commenters on here I might add!)

Silly clickbait article IMO.

Cycling is growing in popularity - by definition that means an increasing proportion will be new to the sport, and will bring over the consumerism from the rest of their lives. But who cares, really? Cycling is what you make of it, irrespective of other peoples' behaviour. Personally, whilst I don't use Strava or buy Rapha, I'm very, very happy to see so many people out on bikes - it's fantastic...

He has a point, but I think he is seeing it from a journalists perspective.

I commute every day on my META, go to Tesco after work and stuff groceries in my rucksack, I wave and offer help if needed to other cyclists, but I don't live in London, and other cyclists now smile and wave back.

After work on Thursday a load of us meet up and ride around the woods and scare our selves silly, just like when I was 14.

I am between cars and quite honestly the longer it goes on, the less I want one. (but ask me in deep winter though and I may have changed my mind!)

I do think road cycling is the new golf, but this means that nice bikes will trickle down once these guys are bored of them!

Not bothered what people think of me, and I certainly don't use strava.

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be!

Journalist in turning us against each other shock...

Comes across as "WAAA WAAA WAAAA......other people are doing MY sport in a way I don't like.....WAAA WAAA WAAAA....it's not fair"

Numpty.

Mehh, it's nothing new.

Back in the dim and distant past (pre hack), before, strava, 'bikepacking' and 'gnarmack' bikes were de-rigeur. I went for a road ride, with a 30l backpack stuffed full of kit with the intention of riding down a bridleway at the end and kipping in a bird hide, about 60miles all in. Posted up my plan on here and got:

why bother, it's only 120miles, why not just ride back

There was already an orthodoxy that said a weekends (well, set off at 4pm Saturday, got home for Sunday lunch) touring wasn't worth it for 'only' 120miles.

Humans like to be competitive, and seek recognition form others. And those saying "I only ride without Strava, and often get lost deliberately" are no different, if that really was the case, why are you bothering to tell people that, on a thread about it? You're just competing to prove your opinion is right rather than get the fastest time.

Still, didn't stop me going for a ride on Saturday, getting lost, and posting up on STW about it.

Not bothered what people think of me, and I certainly don't use strava

Personally, whilst I don't use Strava or buy Rapha, I'm very, very happy to see so many people out on bikes - it's fantastic...

Some people are very keen to make sure we know they are not using strava 😉

All this nostalgia for the good old days. Who remembers when you could only buy badly fitting, badly made cycle clothing and accessories, and when your LBS was the [i]only[/i] bike shop? Popularity has driven down prices, increased choice (I bought a decent jacket and riding goggles in my local supermarket!) and made it generally alot easier to get into.
I use Strava, but it doesn't define me, I ride bikes every day, but that doesn't define me either.
If you really love to ride your bike, just go out and do it, on road, off road, wherever, along with thousands of others. If you don't, then don't.
But don't whine just cos its popular.
Reminds me of the hipster who burnt his mouth on his coffee. Because he drank it [i]before[/i] it was cool!

I'm not sure why the author is worried. The people he is complaining about will drop cycling, just as they dropped golf.

I'm not sure why the author is worried.

Humans like to be competitive, and seek recognition from others.

He writes for the Guardian, he's probably worried about everything

Comes across as "WAAA WAAA WAAAA......other people are doing MY sport in a way I don't like.....WAAA WAAA WAAAA....it's not fair"

Numpty.

Not quite article related, but Strava is causing many of my "naughty" trails (built over years) to get discovered by "anyone with a PC" and many of the nice flowey corners shortcutted for faster times.

Prowling Amazon for cheap solar powered GPS signal blockers !!

He writes for the Guardian, he's probably worried about everything
He should have written a proper Guardian article, bemoaning the fact that Strava is the preserve of middle-class white males and demanding the government take action to increase it's usage by differently-abled LBGT ethnic minorities.

Best reply ever ha ha