[Closed] Cycle Scheme and Used bikes

Welcome to the forum.

Scheme providers take 10-15% of the sale price.

Retailers mostly take their usual margin, though some will throw in sweeteners.

I don't believe these schemes have particularly impacted the prices of bikes, which have been steadily rising across the board for a number of other reasons.

Neither do I believe that the prices of second hand bikes have been negatively impacted by them.

Tredz sell used bikes and take the halfords scheme. No idea if you can do both at the same time

Cheers scotroutes. I don't see how used bike prices can't have been hit badly though. If any higher rate taxpayer buys a new bike you can get 40% off by purchasing it through a scheme. As used bikes don't seem to be available through the scheme, then a one day old used bike must be worth less than 60% of the list price. The large number of people able to buy bikes at 40% must be driving the market - and driving down the price of used bikes. I have found a nearly new bike that I would love to buy, but it's for sale at 20% below the new price. I've explained that I can get a brand new one for 40% below the new price through the scheme. The seller is gutted - and beginning to see that they will likely lose at least 50% of the price paid in order to compete against new bikes bought through the scheme. That isn't how the scheme was designed to work - it was supposed to be for the benefit of people's health and the environment, but instead it is just becoming more of a mechanism to just sell more new bikes.

If you can find a cheap used bike in the current market I would suggest you buy it. Prices have never been so high.

As we've seen in the last year, 2nd hand bike prices are determined by supply snd demand. Despite cycleschemes, demand for 2nd hand rose beyond supply, and prices are now higher than ever.

I’m struggling a bit with the reasoning here; c2w must be driving the price of bikes down but the bike the OP wants is only 20% less than the list price?

There is limited supply of new bikes at the moment and that is keeping the second market incredibly active and prices high.

I’ve explained that I can get a brand new one for 40% below the new price through the scheme.

Except in this instance the bike is owned by your employer until it has been paid in full, and they chose how much to sell it to you for at the end of the scheme.

This would potentially open a can of worms if secondhand bikes were introduced into the scheme because it would be much more difficult to vouch for the reliability of the bike for the duration it's owned by the employer.

Also, I'm pretty sure you can still buy a budget bike for the same price you could 30 years ago, except you will get a far, far superior bike to what you did then. It's only the top end of the market that has become expensive, not what's generally catered for in the C2W scheme.

Your leasing the bike not buying it. Your employer owns the bike for the length of the lease - usually 4years. You can purchase the bike from your employer for the 2nd hand value of the bike if you cut the lease short or for a nominal sum at the end of the term - HMRC have guidlines on 2nd hand pricing, but a large amount of companies just stick £1 on the bikes at the end of the lease as they want healthy employees or because it's easier to stick £1 value on bikes than to individually work out 2nd hand prices of each bike.
The scheme has been run for decades - it's not effected the price of new or 2nd bikes.

When I was on the scheme I bought a 1k bike, I used to to commute for about 2yrs then left the company, because it was mid lease I bought the bike early from the employer for about £300, I'd spent around £350 on lease payments and sold the bike 2nd hand for £700. After postage/eBay fees etc. I wasn't any worse off than I started but had used the bike for free to commute to work. This is what the scheme is for.... I'm sure there are many people who use the scheme to buy a bike for fun, but quite often they would be better off going with an interest free credit scheme rather than c2w.

I’ve explained that I can get a brand new one for 40% below the new price through the scheme.

It may come as a shock to you that not everyone has access to the C2W scheme, and that not everyone pays 40% tax.

Whether someone earning enough to pay 40% tax needs a huge taxpayer funded discount on a toy, but someone earning minimum wage can’t get help getting a basic way of getting to work is for another thread I suppose.

Perversely, the C2W scheme benefits low earners the least. By the time you've got the final fee (sometime up to 7%) and all the other things taken into account, the only benefit is the ability to pay monthly without a credit check.

Anyone on a 40% tax code will certainly benefit, but that (especially this year) isn't me. I just buy second hand when the price is right which, certainly this year, isn't.

OP, your position really doesn't make sense. Lots of inaccuracies/ incorrect links.

It may come as a shock to you that not everyone has access to the C2W scheme, and that not everyone pays 40% tax.

Is a key part of it.

It isn't a crime to be a 40% tax payer. There is no inaccuracy - the e-bike I'd like to buy is about £2,800 new, which means I would save 40% tax, costing me a net £1,680. The one I have found that is nearly new is available at an asking price of around £2,300. It would be madness to buy the secondhand one unless that could be put through the cycle to work scheme.

legendofthephoenix
Free Member
It isn’t a crime to be a 40% tax payer.

No one is saying it is. But the scheme could be fairer to those who already have less rather than subsidising those who arguably could afford to pay more for their ebike...

Essentially the c2w scheme is not suitable for 2nd hand bikes and it doesn't support them.

Personally I wouldn't buy a 2nd hand ebike as buying new will get you a warranty (well worth the extra £500).

Bare in mind you'll save 40% so it'll cost £1680 (significantly cheaper then the 2nd hand option) with a warranty, sounds like a bargain - as long as you have a secure job.

Bike to work has been around for 15+ years.

COVID has put sh bike prices up.

Sorry but as above you have got quite a lot of this wrong.

For once I agree with Cynic-al. The government is giving you a new bike most people couldn't afford even after a discount, with a 40-something percent subsidy? And you're complaining?

Welcome to the forum / cycling. Used bikes have always been ~50% of the new price because generally, they have a hard life, expensive bits wear out and that's all they're worth. That a used model of a £2800 bike is £2300 is probably a result of Covid, in any normal times you'd be looking at ~£1500.

It's all in the rules and regulations covering this, secondhand bikes are a difficult one, you need quotes and receipts due to it being a salary sacrifice and a benefit in kind, so you can see why secondhand is outside the scope, too much room for fraud in that way, plus a benefit of this scheme is pushing a market that brings in tax to the exchequer.

Minimum wage not being applicable is just another rule that is outside the bounds of Cycle to Work, it's law within the minimum wage regulations, so nothing that can be done, if you earn slightly more than minimum wage then you can still use it, you can also see if your company would do a longer salary sacrifice, nothing stopping them increasing it to 24 or 36 months, which would mean those near the minimum wage could increase their purchase cost.

As for 40% tax payers, again that's just due to how this scheme is implemented, same rules as other benefits, it is being run through how much tax and NI you pay, not how much money you earn, so effectively you are increasing your limit before taxation applies.

To switch it round to have larger savings lower down, this would require government or company subsidies, which again are governed by different rules.

the e-bike I’d like to buy is about £2,800 new, which means I would save 40% tax, costing me a net £1,680. The one I have found that is nearly new is available at an asking price of around £2,300. It would be madness to buy the secondhand one unless that could be put through the cycle to work scheme.

So don't buy it, someone else will thats 100% sure.

Both new, and decent used bikes are like rocking horse shit at the moment.

As said, if you can buy it new cheaper then exercise your right to do so.

You CAN buy it new, now, at that price, right?

Reading between the lines here, the OP would like a new £2800 bike via C2W for £1680, but there is no availability. OP has found an identical s/h bike for £2300. The OP would like to maintain the potential saving of (nominal) 40%, but is unable to do this on a s/h bike. OP is mildly irritated by the circumstances, but can do nothing to change them.

The OP has 3 options:
Suck it up and buy the s/h bike for £2300.
Wait for the desired bike to come into stock and buy it via C2W.
Buy something else that IS available.

We can all agree that C2W is a regressive benefit & the current market is distorted.

I have found a nearly new bike that I would love to buy, but it’s for sale at 20% below the new price. I’ve explained that I can get a brand new one for 40% below the new price through the scheme.

There is no inaccuracy – the e-bike I’d like to buy is about £2,800 new, which means I would save 40% tax, costing me a net £1,680. The one I have found that is nearly new is available at an asking price of around £2,300

Well just buy the new bike on CTW and stop moaning?

In the second hand market sellers can ask for what they want, and buyers can offer what they want, products find their market value based on supply and demand.

The second hand bike market is currently inflated due to increased demand, and reduced supply. I know people who have sold 1 year old bikes for 10% less than RRP.

You also have to remember not everyone’s employer does C2W and those that do may have spending caps so not everyone will be able to get a £2.8k ebike on theirs.

Reading between the lines here, the OP would like a new £2800 bike via C2W for £1680, but there is no availability. OP has found an identical s/h bike for £2300. The OP would like to maintain the potential saving of (nominal) 40%, but is unable to do this on a s/h bike. OP is mildly irritated by the circumstances, but can do nothing to change them and is trying to convince the bloke selling the 2nd hand bike that he has to discount his bike by 40%.

As above, buy it or don't - the market is dictating prices and he'll almost certainly get what he is asking for it.

it was supposed to be for the benefit of people’s health and the environment, but instead it is just becoming more of a mechanism to just sell more new bikes.

Welcome to capitalism. Se also the car scrapage scheme, not designed to get polluters off the road but purely to sell new cars.

Anything the government does like this has to be a WIN-win - i.e. boost the economy whilst appearing to be socially responsible.

The fact that Covid has pushed prices up overall doesn't mean that C2W isn't having a negative impact on 2nd hand prices. If there were C2W buyers for 2nd hand bikes, the demand and thus prices would be even higher.

When I used to do the self-run scheme for my company, I'd have happily done a 2nd hand bike if you could get it from somewhere capable of producing a receipt, but I can understand why the commercial schemes don't do it.