[Closed] crank falls off halfway through ride after 'Gold Service'...

I'd put the crank on and offer you free admission to a fix your own bike class.

What damage did it cause?

If you were the customer what would you expect the bike shop to do about this?

What damage did it cause that you need reimbursed for?

Also, did you not notice that your crank arm was wobbling all over the place prior to falling off?

And if you were a bike shop what would you offer to do to try and rebuild my trust in your ability to safely service bikes?

10% off your next gold service

Take it easy guys, you're coming across a bit cranky.

Also, did you not notice that your crank arm was wobbling all over the place prior to falling off?

I had my first generation MKI Saint cranks from when they first came out (2004?) right upto 3yrs ago. The none driveside crank arm fell off on an easy climb. The spindle/spline etc had worn over the years so had worked itself lose fairly quickly.

To keep it from loosening again I had to really torque everything to death.

So I'd say you can get little warning- especially if you are descending etc over rought ground.

IF no damage- I'd tell the shop and wouldn't trust them with my bike again. My mechanical build/skills have only ever failed me on one ride and I wouldn't trust anyone but me to touch my bike.

Just send them a nice email

"just to let you know..."

Things sometimes wriggle loose even after a service.
Bikes really aren't that complicated and there are hundreds of helpful videos on youtube.

No damage caused as I was going up hill. Slowly. And no, weirdly I didn't notice a warning wobble. Was as surprised as you are 'legend'.

I guess it's more the fact that I could have hurt myself it happened 5 mins later when going down a rocky lakes descent.

Worth saying that I am vaguely capable of sorting my own bike out and usually do but given I'm not a pro (and never will be as good as a bike shop should be)I thought it might be nice for a change to get my bike really nicely set up

Sorry, should also say I did obviously get the crank back on myself and completed the ride... I recognise it's not that complex, but do I now trust that my forks have been correctly serviced etc etc...

Are you lot all lbs owners?
I'd be bloody livid. I can tackle most stuff on my bike but sometimes you haven't the time or like the op you feel maybe it could be done a little better by someone who does it day in day out. To have something fail which is pretty basic and which might well have damaged the splines on the crank I'd be pretty p1ssed off. Lesson would be learnt and I'd never trust them again but I'd want at least the cost of the service reimbursing.

[quote=jekkyl said]Things sometimes wriggle loose even after a service.

Especially when the crank bolts aren't tightened up 🙂

If I were the lbs, I'd be very apologetic, check it over for any damage (replace if any found), fix it properly & offer next service for free. I'd then check my systems to ensure it couldn't happen again. But then again they are probably the exact same reasons I am not an LBS.

That's a bit poo.Mistake can happen ,they're only human after all.It's how they deal with it afterwards that counts.

guess it's more the fact that I could have hurt myself it happened 5 mins later

my mate had a loose stem on a PDI'd new bike.

They re-PDI'd it and gave him a free full service (at a later date) seems fair.

I'd be a tad miffed and like you, if i'd paid money, i'd be concerned 'what else has been missed'.

Mistakes do happen but i'd be dropping the bike off again and asking they go over it again.

I'm glad you/the bike are OK.

If it was the rear not shifting nicely, or some brake squeal etc I'd probably rationalise that it might be an issue I've created since the service. But something like a crank falling off isn't a day to day incident, and would make me wonder about the competence of the shop. Albeit that it could just be one failed torquing out of a service which was otherwise fantastically professional.

And if I was the shop owner, if someone reported that to me I'd be effusively apologetic, offer a completely free service when you're next in town and then call you two weeks after that service to check that everything was absolutely tip top. And hopefully win back your business in the long run.

Considering that bog standard services are probably done by some 17 year old apprentice I'd hesitate before using the word 'professionals', and certainly wouldn't assume a better service than you could do yourself. You're paying for the time saving and the lack of hassle of doing it yourself rather than a better job (unless you're a terrible mechanic). As for the cranks falling off, it's a stupid mistake but they do happen. If no damage or harm done I'd just put it back on and chalk it up to experience.

I never understand the getting upset over something that did'nt happen thing (but could have....along with a million other outcomes).

Well I've spent the last ten minutes lobbing bricks out of the window into the street. As I've not hit anyone yet I assume you can't see a problem with that?

What about if the stem was loose?

I'd be bloody livid.I'd never trust them again.I'd want at least the cost of the service

Lesson would be learnt and I'd never trust them again but I'd want at least the cost of the service reimbursing.

At least.

I'd expect a minimum of £500 in compensayshun too 🙂

You need to practice more...your aim is crap.Start with stiklebricks first.

Make sure you tell them. They can't do anything about it or prevent it from happening again if they don't know its happenned. It is possible that in a busy work shop it was overlooked or it tightened sufficiently. Not excusing it. Just saying it's possible.
They should be massively apologetic and offer to rectify it. They should also offer a future service for free.
But I would defo say you need to politely talk to them and explain what's happenned.

how much was this gold service Op?

£90 for the service and then parts on top. I also paid extra to have the forks and shock serviced on top of that. It was a spenny trip to the shop...

If the wheel fell off your car shorty after it was serviced what would you expect from the garage?

Whoever did the service ballsed it up.

I think I did something similar once, in that I most probably didn't do up the wheel nut tight enough on a single speed. I obviously thought I had, but there was no other plausible explanation. I apologised personally to the fella and offered free labour next time he came in-if he still trusted me!! And he did come back.

The mechanic who made the balls up on your bike needs to know really, so he can concentrate his mind in the future and not balls up again.

As an ex shop worker and mechanic, i'd be highly apologetic, take the bike in for another once over, arrange a time to do it on the spot if need be, and work out some form of reimbursement or shop credit.

That's where my expectations would still lie.

I've experience of spannering in a big chain and a teeny LBS, the big chain store did actually have a thorough tick list you'd sign off during/after the job, was actually really at ensuring everything was atleast safe. In the teeny LBS, processes were less established, more on your own head be it, so i just resorted to doing the job, do a test ride, hops etc, trying to loosen anything, then another retighten of every bolt front to back, a second person would often repeat this second check.

I guess it's down to the individual though, they might have just been having a busy day, someone off sick, shop full of agitated customers, deadlines to meet, interrupted in the middle of the job.

Maybe I'm missing the point here - but gold service or no, why would the cranks have been taken off? I wouldn't expect that doing unless they were replacing the cranks or bb[bearings], they're not exactly serviceable parts really.

<edit> and forks? I'm now very intrigued by what is covered by said gold service.

they changed the bottom bracket

Maybe I'm missing the point here - but gold service or no, why would the cranks have been taken off?

Degreasing the drivetrain I'd imagine.

EDIT - Ninja'd

the forks was on top of the Gold service. Gold service is fairly standard strip down

Did you read the first post ? Third para.

i'd be highly apologetic, take the bike in for another once over, arrange a time to do it on the spot if need be, and work out some form of reimbursement or shop credit.

That's where my expectations would still lie.

If the wheel fell off your car shorty after it was serviced what would you expect from the garage?

Considering that bog standard services are probably done by some 17 year old apprentice I'd hesitate before using the word 'professionals', and certainly wouldn't assume a better service than you could do yourself.

This +1, it's proabbly 50/50 (or worse) that I walk out the shop thinking the person I'd asked the question to knew more about the answer than me. Although in fairness by the time I take something to a shop I'm properly stumped and run out of tools so it's usualy something unusual.

I never understand the getting upset over something that did'nt happen thing (but could have....along with a million other outcomes).

No problem with drunk drivers, as long as they make it home ok then ?

Or near misses when commuting and the driver didn't bother looking, or passed too close on purpose ?

The mechanic was drunk?, that's not on really is it..

Funny though

Sundayjumper - Member
Did you read the first post ? Third para.

For some reason when I read that I read it as replaced as in put it back, rather then replaced with new.

Couldn't for the life of me figure out why they would have taken it out.

No problem with drunk drivers, as long as they make it home ok then ?

Or near misses when commuting and the driver didn't bother looking, or passed too close on purpose ?

or a dog that walks past a child without biting it in the face?

I used to do wheelbuilding drunk. Never seemed to affect the end product...

Anyway, I digress. As a customer, the OP is entitled to expect his bike to be safe to ride regardless of whether he should or shouldn't be able to do it himself.

As most have said, tell the shop making clear you're not happy but don't go in there all guns blazing and they should sort you out to your (reasonable) satisfaction. If not then by all means name and shame.

or a dog that walks past a child without biting it in the face?

Oddly, I don't see that as a problem. Should I ?

yes you are a monster who WONT THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN

IGMC

Think I agree with most of you and absolutely not planning to name and shame.

I did give them a call and they were quite apologetic and offered to put it back on. I explained that I had done that already. They then said they would give the bike another look over but so far have not offered anything else and I haven't asked for anything else. I just said that I'd be in over the weekend and that maybe they'd have a think about what else they might like to do. Which I know recognise might have sounded a bit passive aggressive!

Check the crank that fell off. If it's a Shimano BB Ideally there would be one of these screwed into it to pre-tension the BB.

[img] http://i1.adis.ws/i/washford/351764?$pd_merchzone$ [/img]

If the crank fell off I'd expect that to be missing too or still in the hole in the crank because it hasn't been properly attached.

I've always removed that plastic pre-tension thingy once I've done up the two bolts on the crank. Are you supposed to leave it in? 😕

Now there's a question. It would be crushing to find out it wasn't necessary after all. I've always wondered why they made the thing out of cheese. 🙂

I'd be wanting the money back from the service they botched. If the spline's not damaged I'd not take it further than that but I'd be thinking very carefully before using them again.

Thing is... this sort of service is generally for people who don't do their own spannering, to give them peace of mind and take care of everything for them. Or, for the somewhat competent to get an "everything is great" assurance for a big event or ride or holiday. So it's not just a "they did one thing wrong", it's a "you didn't get what you paid for". So actually I reckon it's a bit worse than normal because they must know it's a service they're largely selling to the mechanically incompetent, ie more trust and responsibility placed on them, no?

Do it yourself next time, and if it goes wrong beat yourself up.

If you had been using SPD's the crank wouldn't have fallen off.. You could claim that the bike fell off the crank?? 😀

Martinhutch- mine lives in the toolbox after its done its job.

edit: and in case that sounds smartarse ive made dumber mistakes (much)

It's supposed to stay in place or the threads fill up with dirt. Same principal as dust caps on square taper cranks.

The very same thing happened to me today - a couple of weeks since the service (inc new BB) and the crank came off (my road/commute bike)

I'll go into the shop tomorrow and see what they say.

hora - Member
The spindle/spline etc had worn over the years so had worked itself lose fairly quickly.

Rorschach - Member
That's a bit poo.Mistake can happen ,they're only human after all.It's how they deal with it afterwards that counts.

guess it's more the fact that I could have hurt myself it happened 5 mins later

I never understand the getting upset over something that did'nt happen thing (but could have....along with a million other outcomes).

^ this

i was wearing spds...was a slightly comical moment...

Oh Gawd...it's happened again 🙁 (Luv you Al 😀 )

Get your points about nothing actually happening but it certainly wouldn't make me want to use them again pre-race or some such. As Northwind suggests I fit in the camp that can do it myself but was 'treating' myself to someone else doing it properly.

Those of you who are saying your LBS just has some guy with 6 months experience clearly have fairly crappy LBS. Mine is generally fairly well regarded and the guy who serviced it had 8 years experience. Apparently. Guess it was just an oversight. But if I cocked up what I do as my job I'd expect to not get paid for it. Just saying.

From the shop's perspective if you go in demanding the money back you could simply just be a chancer making the story up. Why should they give you the money back anyway? They did the work, one thing wasn't tightened up properly but no harm done to you or bike. Maybe demand back the pro-rata rate per hr based on your salary for the time it took you to put the crank back on?

Or simply let them know and move on, lesson learned when you want a service in future.

Sorry to hear this. From experience it's absolutely mortifying for the shop (owners/staff alike) when something like this happens and I'm sure they'll want to put it right.

If you were the customer what would you expect the bike shop to do about this?

I'd expect an apology and for them to put right any damage, sort the problem, and for someone senior there to check over everything and make sure nothing else was ballsed up. If they felt like giving me some freebies or credit on top, I'd appreciate the gesture.

I'd like to think that I'd be understanding of the fact that mistakes sometimes happen, but I'd be pretty unhappy.

And if you were a bike shop what would you offer to do to try and rebuild my trust in your ability to safely service bikes?

I would personally (as the owner) apologise to the customer and I'd expect whoever was responsible to do the same. We'd sort the problem, including fixing any resulting damage caused, and make sure that everything was double-checked. If there was anything else you needed doing there and then I'd sort it free of charge (labour) charge, and if not I'd probably sort out some shop credit or something.

I'm sure the shop in question will want to put it right for you and make it up to you. The last thing any mechanic, no matter how junior or experienced, wants is for something like this to happen.

I'd be pissed off with both of those things happening after paying for a top job, keep us updated with what the shop says on the weekend OP.

Thanks Drovercycles, very sensible and considered reply (and coincidentally pretty much what I'd have hoped for as well ;))

Will be sure to keep you updated over the weekend

It's supposed to stay in place or the threads fill up with dirt. Same principal as dust caps on square taper cranks.

My apologies, I didn't look at the pic and was thinking of the plastic bit that goes into that.

and in case that sounds smartarse ive made dumber mistakes (much)

See 🙂

sweepy - Member
It's supposed to stay in place or the threads fill up with dirt. Same principal as dust caps on square taper cranks.

More pish! Not used dust caps on my cranks (or valves) for decades. No issues.

More accurately, this is the picture I should have used.

[img] [/img]

Not much dust-protection qualities there. I don't know if it actually plays any role once it's been tensioned up correctly and the crank arm bolts tightened.

This sort of thing was why i ended up teaching myself to service the bikes, I had several crap jobs done by 3 of my local bike shops. Basically they are mostly done by kids on minimum wage so what do you expect?

The final straw with one shop was being charged a "fine" for a dirty bike when it was going in for a service and I had actually given it a blast with hose and got the worst off before hand (yes it wasn't spotless, but certainly good enough to go in the back of the car) So for that extra £20 they lost a regular customer.

Even stuff like getting a reverb serviced, sent off came back with stanchion damage, which wasn't there when it was sent off, had to argue that it wasn't mine, they replaced "this time" and then when I got it back they hadn't lined the sleeve and the stanchion up properly so the logo is now off to one side. I'm mean ffs. So, this time I've bought the service kit myself.

That said. A shout for loco as when I sent my shock to them, I got a phone call telling me what was up with it, what it needed, and it came back setup perfect.

@ martinhutch AFAIK - no it doesn't hold anything when the bolts are tight. But it does keep the smegs out of the threads for next time.

My XTR c.set came with an ally one, so I figure it's for keeping/using or Shimano wouldn't bother.

In an emergency [lose pinchbolts] it might help keep the thing together and prevent spline damage 'till you get to a Hexkey.

I'm always surprised by the "Yeah, and..." comments on these sorts of threads.

I'd be livid. If you're paying for a service, the very least I'd expect is that everything is tightened up properly! I'd want an apology, the bike checked over again at their cost and my convenience, and perhaps a small token of shop credit of a reduction of next service. I'd be wary about what they'd done t my forks as well.

Not great OP, hope you get it sorted 😕

you can buy the shimano preload bolt in cnc;d alu, in a choice of colours with a much more agreeable 10mm allen key hole. Looky [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351256072138?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=620420697024&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT ]click[/url]

What would you like out of the situation OP? Drovercycles' reply sounds very reasonable. I would hope that if you go in and say "this is what happened, I have concerns for the rest of the bike could you please check it over again FOC" then you would get some reasonable help to check everything is indeed ok.

While I would be upset these things unfortunately do happen. I do all my own repairs, but took my very highly regarded LBS up on the offer of them building up a new frame for me for free... only to find my NDS XTR crank fall off on the ride home, just like you described happening to you, which also damaged the splines on the axle. As it happens, the cranks is still perfectly fine despite the apparent damage and all it took to cure was a regrease and making sure the bolts were done up.... most things on bikes are very easy fixes

It doesn't change much for this instance but I would really recommend doing as much as you can on your own bike and only relying on someone else when specialist tools are required.... *paranoid* don't trust anyone */paranoid* 😀

EDIT: I'd also be interested to know where offered to service your fork and shock. Most LBS's won't touch suspension and insist it be sent away instead

It's alright I've called Angela Rippon and that Dom fella, they're on their way round to yours now.

Update for those who care.

Took it in to the shop today and they were quite apologetic (not very but not sure what I expected tbh) and took it in straightaway to give it a once over. I went away for an hour and when I got back they seemed to have done it and as a bonus fixed the puncture I had got in the meantime as well as fitting a new Middle ring that I bought thinking it probably should have been replaced during the service.

No mention of a discount in the future or any other perk (other than a free tube I guess) but at least the bike is working. At least I hope so, not actually ridden it yet.

I shouldn't think I'll use them again if I'm honest, just because...

Also, and this might be a common thing with bike services...but do you normally get given the old stuff they take off to replace? You do with car services. And I didn't with this bike service. Recognise this makes me sound a bit tight, but tbh I would have recycled the old chain on a pub bike...

I've certainly offered old chains, tubes, tyres to customers in the past but I can't recall anyone ever taking them. Usually, folk are just happy to have the shop dispose of it lest they actually get their hands dirty.

If you are unhappy with the service dont go back. Its exactly how i stopped using bike shops losing all my brake fluid in the middle of nowhere was the final straw. I dont blame the mechanics when they have to spanner and serve people, I imagine this must be tricky remembering what you was doing mid job.

I'd always expect old stuff back. The shop as a whole doesn't sound like someone worth bothering with too much in the future (on the basis it doesn't sound like you were blown away by them)

We wouldn't generally offer to give components back to customers if they've been replaced as part of a service due to being worn out - they're worn out after all - but we'd certainly be happy to hand them over (save us the disposal costs apart from anything else).

If fully-functioning parts have been replaced/upgraded we'd always put them in a box for the customer although they're not always taken away.

I've had one customer last year who's left hand arm fell off a few weeks after Id fitted a bb. It might have been one of those things , the Chainset was old and well used ultegra but I thought the right thing to do was replace the left hand arm for free and reservice the rest of the bike.

Mistakes do happen but good customer service is about fixing those mistakes instantly and well

Don't always keep all the old bits. If the work is aggreed face to face first then they go in the bin.
If it's arranged over the phone the tend to keep the worn stuff but most don't want it

[quote=orangeboy ]I've had one customer last year who's left hand arm fell off a few weeks after Id fitted a bb.Was that the one with his wallet hand?

slight edit , I missread above as a dig
All better now