[Closed] Cotic's 2017

oh god that red, if they start offering the solaris in that colour I might have to open my wallet.

and more importantly the Flare is finally here!

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Oh - that would make a good replacement for my Yeti 5...

Arse, I've wanted a mini rocket for a long time and that's exactly what the Flare is but having bought a Transition Scout this year I'm not in a position to buy one 😥

Oh my, this could be difficult to avoid.

I'll take a FlareMAX 29er in aqua plz...anyone wanna tap me 3grand? I'm good for it.

Brilliant news! Congrats to Cotic. Long time in the making.
These may have just topped my new bike list..

Edit: The normal Rocket geo is looking a bit outdated now..

Gulp - I thought I was happy with my Soul 275... 🙁 (Flare dreams)

I'm just really glad I recently bought a second hand Rocket26 so I can't even consider debating the merits of these four bikes...

Ha, for sure the Flare is now top of my list but in true STW style I already have a problem - Flare 275 or Flare Max.

Heart says Flare Max but the frame colours arent doing it for me. Me wants Orange or something else thats bright*.

*other than the blue. Doesnt float my boat

RocketMax next year swapping out the codeine I think....

Matching my Solaris's XC duties...

Then maybe an escapade to repace the commmuter?

#steelisreal 😀

Cotic fan boy, love steel hardtails.

Flare looks amazing, but in the back of my head there is a little voice saying why steel full suss, the beauty of the HT is that 'spring' but in a full susser there's linkage, shock etc.

Someone tell me steel full suss is amazing because.

because it looks great.

repairable, etc.

Step away from the credit card NOW!

moonboy - Member
Cotic fan boy, love steel hardtails.

Flare looks amazing, but in the back of my head there is a little voice saying why steel full suss, the beauty of the HT is that 'spring' but in a full susser there's linkage, shock etc.

Someone tell me steel full suss is amazing because.

[url= http://www.cotic.co.uk/geek/page/SteelFullSuspension ]Let Cy answer that for you[/url] (although it'd be interesting to hear his thoughts now on steel for short travel frames)

Someone tell me steel full suss is amazing because.

It isn't. Cotic only build it in because they don't understand aluminium properly, see the disaster that was the Hemlock. TBF they aren't the first or last small manufacturer to fall foul of not getting aluminium.

This is a bad day for me, I'm in a bit of a 'what bike' dilemma, unsure what to do as the 2 bikes I have currently are too similar, I'm wanting to dabble in full sus, but struggling to face up to getting rid of my lovely soul, although it's the most practical option.

This has only muddied the waters further. Damn you Cy, giving us so much choice 👿

Don't think the other half would be too pleased if she came home to find Solaris (the most suitable replacement for my scandal) and Flare frames in the house!

That Flare Max looks lovely. I know the ST review couldn't really see the point of FS Chubby but having a Stache (and a fat bike), I love the plus size. I'll sort myself out a demo I think.... I think they look lovely. Having ridden the Stache in 27.5+ and 29+, the 27.5+ feels a better all round choice so I think Cy/Cotic are right on the money there.

Hopefully they'll sell bucket loads.

Thankfully the Flare is sufficiently expensive that I don't have to agonise over whether or not to buy one.

Shh.. I've already explained to my wife that it's 'keenly priced'. And with it being Sterling, it won't suddenly double in cost overnight.

Liked the idea of a Rocketmax but no small...no way on a medium i can run a 125mm drop seatpost with a 17.5" seattube with my short legs 😥

@ Dragon, I can't see how the hemlock was a disaster. It was the first full suspension bike they made and it has a few small teething issues with the back end which as sorted over he years, cotic sent 're only manufacture to release a bike with teething issues. Chain stays used to snap on the first bikes, this was redesigned which fixed the issue, seat says used to flex on hard braking, New seat stays and rockers fixed this. The hemlock rides great, had mine for years and its a great do anything bike

Bravo to Cotic and best of luck with it.

Had always fanied a Bandit and the Flare looks like a great candidate

It isn't. Cotic only build it in because they don't understand aluminium properly, see the disaster that was the Hemlock. TBF they aren't the first or last small manufacturer to fall foul of not getting aluminium.

True that, Evil are a great example but at least Cotic dont say "the engineer got it wrong suck it up big boy"

 

Why steel? Strong, durable, looks great, seat tube where the pivots locate is stiffer than an aluminium one. I think Flare is as light/short travel as we could go on this construction. We're certainly not aiming to build any XC 100mm travel bikes any time soon! It's also in response to customer feedback. We did a lighter aluminium prototype a few years ago, and an early version of what became the Flare. I stated the weight increase on Flare, and asked our email list and Facebook page. The overwhelming response was that people like the steel, liked the idea of the Rocket, but wanted something a little shorter travel and livelier, but not aluminium. So we did the Flare.

cokie: Interested what you think is outdated on the Rocket geo? 65.5 deg head angle, long wheelbase, up to 470mm reach on the XL.

Oooh. That Flare. MUST RESIST!

Thanks Cy!

Might have to check out one of your demo days 🙂

I'm liking the look of the Flare. Don't need one. But I want one.

Am I reading this right? A 3.0 upfront but only a 2.8 in the rear?

If only 'the industry' hadn't gone mad on wheel sizes, I have enough bits to build a really nice bike in either 26" or 29" guise, but not 650b, I could just about stretch to a frame if I sold 2 frames from my collection, but frame, fork and wheels is just too much of an outlay.

REALLY want one.

Cy- Apologies, I was comparing Small Rocket to Medium RocketMax, as they're both the first in the size 😳 . I thought the TT was looking short.. 😆 That's the problem with having 5 second intervals to look at things whilst at work. Just need to arrange myself a demo at some point.

Am I reading this right? A 3.0 upfront but only a 2.8 in the rear?

That's a shame as I have tried both 2.8 and 3.0 and much prefer 3.0, as I get the impression a lot of people do from reading online. 2.8 isn't really plus to me. A bit misleading that if it's true.

Boost is a bit of a halfway there standard as its not enough out back to get you more than from say a 2.5 > 2.8, without some shenanigans with chain stays going over/under the chainset, whereas up front its 10mm wider on something that already had 81mm of clearance, so more than enough for a 3.0 tyre.

The issue with trying that on an FS is that nothing is directly attached to each other, so if you make everything super thin like the yoke on a Stooge you would get flex in all kinds of directions. The BB pivot is the main point for controlling flex on the bike.

Thats kind of missing the point though I guess, what I meant was that you could make anything 6mm wider using boost but thats it before you have to change stuff up. Thats 0.24 of an inch, so if you could run 2.5s before, you could only get to 2.74s without making other changes all things like clearance being equal. Assuming you didn't make it have more than say a 2.5 tyre before, and you really wanted to do it the way you had it before, boost only gets you to a 2.74 tyre. Then maybe you'll accept slightly reduced tyre clearance to say '2.8' or maybe you might tweak a thickness by 1mm say to get that magic 2.8ness, but trying to get to 3.0 using boost alone doesnt work - you need something else. Sometimes you're going to think its just not worth it. Also, 2.8 boost tyres tend to be alot smaller in diameter than the 3.0s, so again thats a factor and youd need to re-engineer or extend the chainstays, both of which probably aren't worth it for the difference between a 3.0 and a 2.8.

The red is lovely!!!

That's a shame as I have tried both 2.8 and 3.0 and much prefer 3.0, as I get the impression a lot of people do from reading online. 2.8 isn't really plus to me. A bit misleading that if it's true.

I think it would be unfair to call it misleading, plus is a non-standard right now. There's so much variation and none of it lives up to the billing (e.g. its called the same as 29" but even a big 3.0 is still shy of a 29er), so where does a big 27.5 stop and a plus start? No ones really defined that as yet. FWIW I think 2.8 will win out over 3.0 so I see where Cy is going with his choices.

These all look great and the geometry is bang on. New Oranges launched today too - British excellence all round!

So far everything I've read about plus tyres suggests 2.8 is better than 3.0 for riding hard. Knowing how someone mediocre like me can get a 900g 2.3" tyre at ~25psi to squirm when pumping turns, I don't hold much hope for a 3.0" tyre of similar weight feeling good without being at such a high psi it defeats the object.

Incidentally Schwalbe recently launched a 2.6" version of their Hans Dampf which was an honestly (ie bloody big) 2.35" already.

I love the look of these, but think it could look even better with the cable routing a little more tidy. Not sure why the dropper cable guide is off centre or what the bolts under the TT are exactly for, bottle cage or external dropper presumably? Still, I'm glad they haven't gone fully internal.

It'll have to be a very good bike to beat something like a Transition Scout. Knowing Cotic, I reckon they'll give them a run for their money though.

I don't think 3.0 is going to be pushed aside. Trek, Specialized, cannondale and norco to quickly name a few have already picked it as the size for their chubby bikes. Most 2.8 tyres I've seen aren't much bigger than a big 2.5. I'm not saying these will be bad bikes, far from it, but 2.8 isn't the current popular plus size at all. I guess time will tell .

Only on STW could this turn into an argument over 0.2 inches 😥

If only 'the industry' hadn't gone mad on wheel sizes, I have enough bits to build a really nice bike in either 26" or 29" guise, but not 650b, I could just about stretch to a frame if I sold 2 frames from my collection, but frame, fork and wheels is just too much of an outlay.

REALLY want one.

looks like the MAX version are the frames for you then - takes a 29" wheel.

I'm in a worse position, really want a flare, but only 26" bits - no way I can justify changing.

It's not an argument . It was a decent conversation.

Only on STW could this be mis-construed as an argument over 0.2 inches

FTFY. 😉