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IF your 26" wheeled bike snapped or was stolen or whatever. What would you go and buy?
another 26" soul
I must have been loking in the worng place. Where did you get those number from?
The Banshee site has different numbers (e.g 66deg HA at Low) the numbers put the SB6C as longer (WB & TT), steeper STA.
The Banshee numbers are for 545mm A-C but a 160mm 27.5 Pike is 552mm, hence the slightly slacker angles. Actually, thinking about it further, that will take a bit off the reach and add a bit to the stack, and the Yeti's wheelbase is showing as a bit longer so there must be a slightly larger difference between equal size frames - but you can always go up a size for more wheelbase and reach. They're close enough that how you choose to run your front and rear sag will make more difference in how they feel geometrically.
IF your 26" wheeled bike snapped or was stolen or whatever. What would you go and buy?
another 26" soul
Snap! errm... I mean ditto!
(although I may be tempted by a Solaris, plus a 26" something else to make use of all the wheels and spare forks that I have in the store room)
coogan - MemberIF your 26" wheeled bike snapped or was stolen or whatever. What would you go and buy?
Every time I snap mine, I get new bits for free 😆
IF your 26" wheeled bike snapped or was stolen or whatever. What would you go and buy?
2 different scenarios and illustrates the point. If my "bike" snapped (ie. the frame) its got nice expensive forks, wheels etc so I'd buy another 26"-compatible frame. If I lost the whole bike to theft I wouldnt buy 26" as the industry is moving away from it and there will be less options for replacement forks/rims/tyres in the future. Whether I prefer 26 or 27.5 is irrelevant, it's clear 26 isnt going to be supported.
I was waiting for the new 26" rockets, hoping the new ones will be available in matte green ...and was ready to order and pay it ..not only to think about it
but for several reasons I´m definitely not interested in the 27.5 version...
following the logic of cy´s statement and all the posts here
the question for me is now...how long will it be possible to buy a 26" soul and when will there be a 27.5" Bfe...?
I'd buy a 29er Rocket.
Might even be able to afford it properly by the time it's ready.
I would definitely get a Cotic fatbike *hint[i]hint[/i]*
If it snapped I'd be looking for a replacement under warranty. If it got nicked then things would be a bit more tricky. Funnily enough I'd go for a 26" Rocket if one existed. Since it doesn't I'd probably take a good look at the "nu-skool" 29ers (might do that anyway). If they didn't work out I might just go for the 26" Transition Suppressor. Pretty sure that I wouldn't go for a 650B. Not that I think there is anything wrong with the size. I'm sure it will be just fine, it just takes time to really dial in the geometry. The "nu-skool" 29ers are kind of a case in point and it's was only last year that companies were sticking different dropouts in their 26" frame and calling them 650B. The ones we have now are really just first generation and will look a bit dated in a few years. I'd also like to wait and see whether there is any resurgence in 26" in a few years time. Not saying it will happen, but I'm not arrogant enough to pretend that I know the future.
Pretty sure that I wouldn't go for a 650B. Not that I think there is anything wrong with the size. I'm sure it will be just fine, it just takes time to really dial in the geometry.
There's no magic in geometry. But when 29ers appeared the majority of the mountain bike industry had never tried to work with different wheel sizes - it therefore took time to work through the geometric possibilities, particularly as a bigger wheel is hard to package in medium and smaller frame sizes. To relate it to my day job designing loudspeakers, if you know how to design for 10" and 15" drivers, you'd have to be pretty clueless not to be able to design for 12" drivers.
I'd also like to wait and see whether there is any resurgence in 26" in a few years time. Not saying it will happen, but I'm not arrogant enough to pretend that I know the future.
had to smile reading that with the massive Audi banner ad at the top of the page featuring a picture of a vinyl record.
I bought my first new bike in about 5 years a few weeks ago and didn't even think abut what size of wheels it had. It was a good price and had a good spec and it rode well when I took it for a spin around the forest. It was only after a few days I thought, huh, this thing has 650B wheels.
As for getting geometry sorted some companies, like Norco, (who pretty much missed the initial 29er thing) went straight to 650B and have got things pretty much dialed in now. I'm not sure I'd fancy an Enduro 650B or a Stumpy 650B this year, but the companies who made the decision more recently that last year shouldn't have any issues.
One of the funny things that happened as 29ers were coming in was lots of designers became obsessed with "making them handle as fast as 26in bikes", right at the same point lots of 26in riders were going "woah! These bikes handle too fast".
Was quite funny for me as I got the inbred 29er to market, did the Scandal 29, then went riding with Oxley and Benji and then did the On One Summer Season.
Quite polar.
Right now I see 650b hardtails closer to 29er geometry than the other way. Except for Whyte ones which look to have cool numbers.
What do you think of the Stanton Switchback Brant?
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to be inline with your thoughts on HT geo?
Northwind - Member
The question isn't so much whether there's no real world benefits- it's whether they justify the change.
I wasn’t talking exclusively about wheel sizes. As with all things that evolve, bike tech does so incrementally over time as well - hydraulic brakes, SPD’s, tubeless rims, wheel sizes, bolt-thru forks, clutch mechs, dropper posts, wider bars, the use of carbon, drive chains – narrow wide rings etc., etc. All these things conglomerate (sorry, couldn’t think of another word) to make the bikes more 'enjoyable'. I know that’s a subjective word – but you know what a mean, pushing boundaries back and all that. Don’t view them in isolation. Would anyone argue they're not good to have around, how the industry including LBS’s have not grown and prospered from them? My LBS’s are in quite good shape at the moment so I’m not overly concerned about them having to shift stock and re-orientate - that’s the very nature of their business and the supply chain.
My answer to your question therefore is yes – they are worth it.
BTW – I have two bikes, both 26” and old. My favourite being a steel HT with a 27.2 seat post that’s oxidised to the frame and now immovable! I am however saving up for a 27.5 HT build (I have the frame a Stanton Switchback) that will have updated parts.
deluded - MemberI wasn’t talking exclusively about wheel sizes. As with all things that evolve, bike tech does so incrementally over time as well
Except that this is exactly the opposite, an abrupt change over an artificially short timescale.
I don't agree it was abrupt.
What does this mean (not being rude, genuinely interested)?over an artificially short timescale.
I don't see how you can think it was anything but abrupt tbh, the abandonment of 26 inch happened in only a little over a year, and 650b bikes had almost totally taken over even before there was a proper range of tyres for them.
@cy - respect for trying to get a UK built Rocket out the door, I hope something comes of your project.
As for wheel sizes and commercial reality (not aimed at Cy) - I'd maybe buy a 650b Rocket, but a 26", no way.
Deluded member
I think the word you were looking for was "accumulated" 🙂
I agree, they are perhaps a bit more obvious than Dave Brailsford's "marginal gains" but they all add up. Some things like tapered steerers are hard to quantify but others, like wide bars are less so.
Take a typical (probably no such thing but I hope you know what I mean) bike from ten years ago and compare it to the equivalent today and you'll really see the difference. But apply each change one at a time, like those word games where you have to change one word to another a letter at a time, and you wouldn't really notice a huge difference in each stage.
You can divide the changes that have taken place in to hard and soft.
Hard changes affect the frame basically: Wheel size; tapered steerers; geometry; Bottom Bracket design. You can't apply them to existing frames - you have to get a new one.
Soft changes are add-ons: short stems; wide bars; riser bars; tubeless; 1x drivetrains. You can swap these around on an existing frame.
We had 29'rs before 27.5! It seemed clear to me that wheel sizes were in play for change a lot longer than just over a year. And again, I wasn't just referring to wheel sizes.
recently had a conversation with a mate returning to the fold. What became apparent is the laughable idea of the "standard";wheel size; 26, 650b, 29
steerer; straight, tapered, 1.5", 44mm
axles; 9mm, 12mm, 15mm, 20mm, 135, 142
BB's; BSA, BB30, PF30
gears; 1x or 2x, 9,10,11 (and explain why the more expensive bike has fewer gears)
disc; 6 bolt, centrelock
I just bought a new bike last week, it has :
135mm and 170mm QR wheels, a tapered headtube with external headsets (don't know which one), a seatpost of some size or other, some 31.8 bars and stem and a 100mm BSA threaded BB.
I'll probably be able to find spares for most of those parts for many many years to come even if some of them are so far from standard that they're sub niches within a very niche niche. Bit like buying a car, I didn't buy the C-max and worry that the boxes of spare parts for my MG Midget were 'obsolete'. I'll just buy bit's that fit the C-max as and when they wear out. Just replace C-max with O-O Fatty and MG midet with El-Mariachi Singlespeed.
wrecker - Member
What do you think of the Stanton Switchback Brant?
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to be inline with your thoughts on HT geo?
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST
Never looked before but like the look of those.
But limited for bigger lads wanting a saddle up ride but covers a lot of riders well.
deluded - MemberWe had 29'rs before 27.5! It seemed clear to me that wheel sizes were in play for change a lot longer than just over a year. And again, I wasn't just referring to wheel sizes.
It's a thread largely about the untimely death of the 26 inch wheel. 29ers don't really come into it, nor other things that aren't wheels.
dunmail - good points.
I'm sticking with conglomerate though - [i]to form or gather into a mass or whole.[/i]
😀
It's a thread largely about the untimely death of the 26 inch wheel. 29ers don't really come into it, nor other things that aren't wheels.
I think the discussion took on a broader note.
I'm sticking with conglomerate though - to form or gather into a mass or whole.
Conglomerate always reminds me of the rock type which is basically a mess of unrelated components stuck together. Mind you have you seen this ... 8)
You have to remember the UK is a small place and behind on the curve. The US which drives these things moved wheel size a long time ago. I went riding over there with people in 29ers in 2006.
I've no idea what Cotic's sales are outside of the UK, but if you even want to consider it, then 26" is not an option.
You have to remember the UK is a small place and behind on the curve
I don't think we're behind the curve at all. The internet lets us see what is going on everywhere in real time.
We are different, and less open to marketing than the mericans though.
I've no idea what Cotic's sales are outside of the UK
A surprising number in Germany. Mostly 26in afaict. For a country where 29er probably could make more sense. Quite a few On-One's too.
Never seen a 650b/27.5 ever (apart from one when I was in Scotland).
.. and less open to marketing than the mericans though
Not sure about that, if there's any generalisation maybe we just respond to different marketing. You could say other markets are more open-minded. I wouldn't, but it's just a different way of seeing the same thing. The UK is certainly different to the bigger markets of Europe and the US, less so now that 5-10 years ago maybe, even so we don't always see the current general trends favourably because of that.
The UK is certainly different to the bigger markets of Europe and the US, less so now that 5-10 years ago maybe, even so we don't always see the current general trends favourably because of that.
I think we just destroy forks and drivechains quicker though. Remember Sam Hill's comments about the Schladming (or was it Champery) WC?
Steve Jones: "So do you ride in the rain at home"
Sam (straight faced after destroying the competion in the worst conditions ever, and who'd mostly had dry runs) : "no, it'd get my bike muddy"
Maybe a new bike for the sake of it makes sense if you have no other cost's involved. But if you're in the UK you buy into stuff for other reasons, stuff that lasts, nowhere else 'does' hardcore HT's in partuclarly steel ones, whereas 5-10 years ago you could turn upto some STW rides and stick out like a sore thumb if you weren't on a Dialled PA or Inbred. Even FS was a novelty in the UK untill 5 yeas ago. We didn't do expensive bikes because we were too busy forking out every other week for a new chain. We adopted 29ers in the same way, rigid niche singlespeeds like the Swift and inbred that were great for bombing about on muddy singletrack, while the rest of the world was pumping out carbon XC-race exotica.
We are different, and less open to marketing than the mericans though.
Don't agree with that at all. From what I see, outside the vocal minority on here we are more then open to marketing which is why the market is quite happy to ignore those that make such a fuss about the change (but, for the most part have no real intention of buying a new bike anyway) and sell bucket loads of the 'next big thing' to those that want to buy.
From what I understand America took to 29ers as they suit the terrain they generally ride over there.
Even FS was a novelty in the UK untill 5 yeas ago.
Not sure about that, FS have been in the majority round here for going on 10 yrs with plenty about before that.
STW really isn't a representative sample of the UK cycling public. To suggest that FS bikes were rare and Inbreds common 5 years ago is to ignore what's actually been going on.nowhere else 'does' hardcore HT's in partuclarly steel ones, whereas 5-10 years ago you could turn upto some STW rides and stick out like a sore thumb if you weren't on a Dialled PA or Inbred. Even FS was a novelty in the UK untill 5 yeas ago.
I had a FS seventeen years ago and they weren't that rare then.
TINAS, I mean the way we like LT HTs and smaller wheels generally speaking (edit, or used to?), so no suprise that a global move away from 26" will be least popular here. Prioritising tech ability over light weight etc - not all of us, but a lot more so than Europe and probably as a higher % of riders than in the US overall (depends where in the US). The UK seems closer to Canadian tastes after the LT HT Canadian thing in the late 90s that really took off here, Konas, Coves and Chameleons. Certainly there were a number of those with 1x8, Azonic bars + 60mm stems, 110mm Z1s and 2.35 tyres + D521s among our riding group in '98. Not that much different to current hardtails really.
no suprise that a global move away from 26" will be least popular here.
Outside the walls of internet forums I just don't think that's the case though. I know a lot of people who ride and none of them get worked up in the slightest about the demise of 26". Most think it's a good excuse to change bikes.
nowhere else 'does' hardcore HT's in partuclarly steel ones, whereas 5-10 years ago you could turn upto some STW rides and stick out like a sore thumb if you weren't on a Dialled PA or Inbred. Even FS was a novelty in the UK untill 5 yeas ago.
STW really isn't a representative sample of the UK cycling public. To suggest that FS bikes were rare and Inbreds common 5 years ago is to ignore what's actually been going on.
Indeed, that doesn't in any way shape or form represent the riding scene I've seen and been involved in around Aberdeen. Maybe 15 years ago full suspension was rare, 10 not so much and in the last 5 years its probably the norm. All the enthusiast riders I know have been on full suspension only for more than 10 years now. I think you might be confusing the Uk riding scene with around where you live, the same way folk do when suggesting particular gearing set-ups are "all you need for Uk riding".
So 26" is dead after all?! am disappoint 😥
chestrockwell - MemberOutside the walls of internet forums I just don't think that's the case though. I know a lot of people who ride and none of them get worked up in the slightest about the demise of 26". Most think it's a good excuse to change bikes.
Most of the people I know are pretty bloody annoyed about it and have put off buying bikes because of it.
I was all set to buy a new disc road bike this year, but the inevitable new standards stampede means I'm not going to bother.
You're right about full sussers though - I remember hordes of Marin riding, bearded, Ron Hill wearers stampeding majestically across the moors round here many, many years ago.
🙂
The most popular bike I see round here is the Orange 5 - I'm pretty much guaranteed to meet at least one every weekend ride.
I'd tend to agree, forums are skewed but a number of posters must be representational. And 'least popular' is relative, not meant as 'in general'.Outside the walls of internet forums I just don't think that's the case though
Most of the people I know are pretty bloody annoyed about it and have put off buying bikes because of it.
Judging by your behaviour on here I'd contend that anyone who isn't bloody annoyed about it keeps their mouth shut for fear of you boring them to death....
Most of the people I know are pretty bloody annoyed about it and have put off buying bikes because of it.
Hasn't effected anyone I know. One bought a 26", two others a 29" and I bought a 27.5". Really feel people are getting their knickers in a right twister over this personally.
😀
I haven't started a wheel size thread for as long as I can remember.
(EDIT - over a year. [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-was-wrong-about-650bheres-why ]This one, if you missed it. [/url])
I've never had a pop at any individual for their choice of bike purchase.
I fully support the smaller bike manufacturers - have no problem with fatbikes, 29'ers or alternative solutions to existing problems.
I've heard no rational answer to the points I've made re the unnecessary rapaciousness of the major manufacturers, so I'll continue stating my point of view until someone stops me from doing so.
If you don't like my posts, I'm sure you could either find a way to block them so you don't have to read them or just ignore them.
Thanks for your opinion, I shall be certain to bear it in mind in future.
🙂
PARKLIFE!!I've heard no rational answer to the points I've made re the unnecessary rapaciousness of the major manufacturers,